Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[Longhorned]

Are these dumb responses?

What would the revenue source be?

TV, ticket sales, licensing from numbered jerseys with name on the back

Same for all schools?

No.

Where would the games be played?

Same as now.

Would they have to attend classes, or is that charade continued?

It doesn't have to be a charade. Schools already have a policy of excused absences for road games and tourneys.

If not, what's the connection to college? Or are you advocating the club sport model?

N/A

Who would be "the best players?" Don't pay the others? If not, how to stop them from getting paid under the table?

Equal and shared division of percentage of ticket sales and proceeds and TV. I don't know how to stop anyone from getting paid under the table.


Pay the swimmers and cross country runners, too? Or just the ones in revenue-generating sports? What if basketball doesn't make money at a school? Don't pay those players?

By demand.Most student athletes are just on scholarship without pay.

Pay boys more than girls?

If that's where demand is, which it is.


Who negotiates this pay? Can it be more at one school than another, like the pros?

Yes, more at one school than another.

[splitsecond]

every top 50 program for the last 25 years has paid for the vast majority of their top players.

the top, top programs pay for a much higher percentage due to the fact that they get a higher percentage of top players -- its been a know practice and somewhat accepted for as long as i can remember, and yes, Arizona is right there with the best of them.

the programs with the pedigree, resources, and willingness to "do what it takes" have had the clear advantage in landing the top stars.

where this falls on Adidas is that they have long been cornered with direct benefits to the teams they sponsor, whereas other programs like Arizona have had a deft process and tight secrecy.

Book exposed Arizona thru a channel it has never used, Adidas, for his own personal greed and gain -- not to mention 5k...and therein lies where all Arizona fans should be infuriated, fucking Book Richardson did this for 5k, 5 fucking k, and did so by going outside of the model that was so effective and un-penetrable up to this point.

so, its not about if the teams cheat, its how they cheat, and Arizona did it as good or better than anyone.

and one last thing, how do you guys think i know all the inside information i know? is it because you think i talk to Sean Miller everyday? or that Greg Byrne and Jim Livengood used to call me and tell me that Stanley Johnson was going to commit, or Aaron Gordon was coming to Arizona or that Chase Budinger was going to stay for his Jr year or that Sean Miller met with our main booster in Santa Fe or that John Calipari convinced Miller to come to AZ?

no, its because the web of involvement of people not directly affiliated with the program are intertwined in the mix, they are the ones who pull the strings and cover the man holes, and its like that at every school that handles their business effectively at this level.

its the darkest kept secret of of a 1000 or so people around the country at various universities who are not employees or staff members who are vital to the culture of college basketball today, and that culture is a culture of greed and billions and billions of dollars on the line.... from CBS and FOX to ESPN and Adidas and NIKE and Under Armor and Foot Locker and McDonalds and on and on and on.....

I'm not sure why the bluster of last night holds true now--you know Miller was ahead of things. It doesn't seem he was ahead of anything.

If anything, since the whole truth will (has?) gotten out, the best thing to do is fire Miller, impose 2 years of sanctions along with 2 scholarships and encourage the NCAA to add more if they think its necessary, and ASAP. The sooner we get on with things the sooner we can feel better about this....and ourselves.

Further, we now know there is a current team player who has a relative in receipt of money. What's the hold up there? That player should already be off the team.

I agree with those here who ask what's the point?

For me, I can't see one anymore.

Why fire Miller when pretty much every successful college basketball coach does the exact same thing. Clearly paying athletes and all this other shady shit became a necessity to have success and keep your job. Who would u replace him with when theres probably a plethora of shady coaches below the collegiate level and most of the D1 coaches are involved in the same stuff? You also gotta believe Arizona would be stupid to even offer imposing self sanctions until the dust settles - is the NCAA really going to put every top 50 program on probation and do tournament bans?

It seems we need to come to terms with the fact that everyone is getting dragged into this. There will be no winners, and hopefully it leads to things getting cleaned up, until they find another way, rinse, repeat.

As for Miller being ahead of things, purely speculation on my part, but say the FBI came around w questions bc of Book (or even before then), would it not bode well if Miller, with his knowledge and candor, said look, FBI, here is the deal, and laid the entire blueprints and inner workings of what really goes down? You help the FBI take down the big guys, they take care of you. The more you help and if it leads to convictions, the better

First, everyone won't be dragged into this. This (hope) is a pipe dream. If anything, we have already seen every program that will be "caught." The fact that the FBI is subpoenaing Nike and UA means little, IMO. Why? Arizona got caught on tape, red-handed. That's akin to Marion Barry getting caught in a hotel room paying cash for cocaine. Yes, Arizona looks that lame and will be one of 5/6/7 programs put front-and-center as an example.

As for Miller and the excuse he was doing what everyone does, see above. Everyone does it, yes, but everyone doesn't get caught. As for the excuse, Book went rogue. Yes, Book went rogue but at this point, so what? Bottom line: we got caught because of Miller's staff; we are now paying for that and the cost will only grow if Miller stays. He's permanently tainted.

Self governing oneself shows the university is embarrassed. As I am. We should do some things just on principle. Here they are:

(1) Apologize first.
(2) The player whose relative took money.... gone.
(3) Miller gone.
($) Romar in
(5) No NCAA's this year (This will be impressive because even w/o Ayton we could be a FF team, still.)
(6) 2 scholies gone for 2 years
(7) 1 scholie gone for 2 additional years

Do this and I'm still a fan--partially at least.

Why should we put ourselves through the wait. We are already being punished NOW, with no end in sight.

Hey while we are at it, let's rehire Livengood, right? You miss Sunny Jim I am sure.

[UofAlum05]

As a Top-10 program and school that wants to compete for Final Fours and Titles there are only 2 spots we could be sitting in right now:

A) We could be one of the 100+ schools not named in the report yesterday that participate in this type of stuff daily. We could have kept our vaunted 2017-18 team in tact and reeled in a recruiting class for the ages for 2018-19. Our coaches could all breath a little sigh of relief, agree internally to clean it up, and reform with the NCAA (with all the other schools who weren't caught). Sure our name would come up in a few documents and there would be suspicions but hey we were one of 100 schools that might be guilty in someway but we are going to clean it up.

-Or-

B) Our assistant coach who everyone with any sort of insight into UofA has been begging Miller to fire for years takes the entire program down. He decides to meet up with a new set of guys with money to offer, team up with our nemesis Adidas who has screwed us in numerous recruiting battles, and pocket $5k for himself. He gets caught on tape. So instead of 1 of the 100 schools who does this crap without getting name he now provides recorded proof of our pay for play. We get nailed in the National press, our rivals (who cheat their asses off too) dance on our grave, and we lose any shot of a normal 2017--18 season and are wondering if we'll have enough players to field a team the next season.

[Spaceman Spiff]

To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.

1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.

What does Title IX dictate though?

Title IX is binding on the institution, not outside sources.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/inc ... stions#who" target="_blank

[splitsecond]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.

People who write like this are acting like this scandal is over instead of just beginning.

People who write like that are letting their feelings get the best of them. The NCAA is absolutely complicit in all of this. Burning down major programs to try and gain the moral highground would be a hollow move that would cost them millions of dollars for several years. They absolutely have no choice but to let this play out and I believe ultimately take some responsibility for fostering this environment.

[97cats]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

[Bruins01]

We all knew it, even, I suspect, the idiots who clutched their pearls while claiming that only Arizona (or UCLA, in BRO's case) would never cheat. What should bother everyone is that due to deeply stupid NCAA amateurism rules, paying players has to be done in the dark, where the athletes can only be more easily manipulated and taken advantage of.

Ditch amateurism, let the best players be bid on out in the open, and end this charade.

What would the revenue source be? Same for all schools?

Where would the games be played? Would they have to attend classes, or is that charade continued? If not, what's the connection to college? Or are you advocating the club sport model?

Who would be "the best players?" Don't pay the others? If not, how to stop them from getting paid under the table?

Pay the swimmers and cross country runners, too? Or just the ones in revenue-generating sports? What if basketball doesn't make money at a school? Don't pay those players?

Pay boys more than girls?

Who negotiates this pay? Can it be more at one school than another, like the pros?

Always hear pay them. Never seen how it would work. Seems like it would be a lot easier if you went club sports to avoid the complications noted above.

These are all very important questions that would have to be, and can be, worked out. What frustrates me the most is when people use the existence of these complicated but solvable problems as an excuse to do nothing, especially since that excuse is used so often by those who are benefiting most from the status quo.

[UofAlum05]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

I'm all for reform but I would prefer to be one of the 20-30 programs that feels the noose tightened than the one drug out and shot in the head in front of everyone else.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

I'm all for reform but I would prefer to be one of the 20-30 programs that feels the noose tightened than the one drug out and shot in the head in front of everyone else.

If it's only one program, I think Louisville has that covered for us.

[splitsecond]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/2 ... 710021001/

Bickley: Tucson bracing for its darkest moment after NCAA basketball scandal

For too long, college basketball has been two different games. One transpired on a hardwood court. The other took place under a table.
The dirty charade is finally over.
Four assistant coaches at major Division I programs have been arrested on allegations of fraud and bribery. The pay-for-play scandal has already cost Rick Pitino his job at Louisville.
Arizona head coach Sean Miller could be next.
Scandals don’t get any bigger. Or less surprising.
The funneling of cash to blue-chip recruits has long been college basketball’s worst-kept secret. Even legendary coach John Wooden had his own bag man, Sam Gilbert, who took care of UCLA players on the side. But this time, the FBI is running the show, not a team of toothless NCAA investigators.
A giant shoe company is involved. Cooperating witnesses seeking to lessen their own punishment could sing like birds at sunrise, doing more than expanding the scope of this story and exposing the dark underbelly of college basketball.
It could burn this sport to the ground.
This is a traumatic time for Tucson, a sleepy city that has staked much of its reputation and civic esteem on a powerhouse program that Lute Olson built from scratch. Miller, an intense head coach with a reputation for successfully recruiting the nation’s best players, had magically restored Arizona’s status as an elite basketball school.
Like most Division I coaches, he is a control freak, overseeing every detail.
Is it plausible he didn’t know that one of his longest-tenured assistants was corrupt? Oblivious to a guy on his own bench paying recruits to play basketball in the desert?
It doesn’t seem likely. But now is not the time for assumptions. It’s time for Miller to explain what he knows and how this could’ve happened in Tucson. There were more crickets than revelations on Tuesday, when Arizona canceled its annual Media Day event, which was set for Wednesday.
Even if it doesn’t cost him his job, Miller’s program will surely take a big hit. He was expected to field a championship-caliber team in 2017-18, a group that could’ve brought the talented coach his first Final Four appearance. His current team might’ve been ranked No. 1 before the FBI’s bombshell, allegations that could spark NCAA sanctions and the exodus of highly talented players who are looking to transfer to a safe haven.
Pitino gets no sympathy here. He deserves his dismissal. His resume at Louisville is marred by scandal and salacious behavior. He once again acted shocked and unaware by unflattering details that happened under his watch, but plausible deniability doesn’t fly with the FBI.
Miller, on the other hand, is one of the sport’s brightest young coaches. His greatest sin seemed to be losing the really big games and sweating through dress shirts. He never seemed like the sort who would cheat to win.
But this is really bad. Even though Arizona’s basketball program is often loathed and ridiculed in the Valley, a region dominated by Arizona State alumni, the Wildcats' success was breathtaking and undeniable. Their program was once a shining star in State 48, proof that Arizona can produce a title contender in college basketball.
Now, their reputation has been sullied. The worst could be on its way. And the only silver lining for Wildcats fans is really no consolation at all.
Namely, that there are no recent NCAA championships to vacate.

I love Bickley, but college basketball is not anywhere near his forte.

[dmjcat]

Except that the NCAA didn't have Cam Newton ON TAPE!!

The UA is done with the Tourney for at least a year.[/quote]

The NCAA doesn’t have him on tape. The fbi does you dolt[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the NCAA reads the newspapers Sherlock [/quote]

I don’t say this often, but you are literally too stupid to be real[/quote]

Pot...........meet Kettle.

Whats REALLY STUPID is thinking that the NCAA needs to have physical possession of the FBI tapes in order to take action. The publicly available FBI documents are all they need.

But I expect no less from you Odogg.

Try harder next time.

[splitsecond]

^^^^^^^^^lmmfao^^^^^^^^^^^

Kyree Walker going to Hillcrest and ASU makes a whole lot of sense now, doesn't it?

[ASUHATER!]

What an awful article by Bickley. Tucson is a sleepy city? Phoenix is dominated by ASU fans? There are probably more Ohio state or Wisconsin fans in Phoenix than ASU.

[Hank of sb]

I love Bickley, but college basketball is not anywhere near his forte.

I feel better already.

[dmjcat]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.
Most everyone else on this board is seriously rationalizing

You're ignoring literally everything that's being said and reported on this with this line of thought. It's a big deal with a lot of people involved.

I don't think it is minimizing when people point out that the reality is that Arizona didn't do anything that is not common.

If the NCAA wants to blow us up for what Book did, they can. The issue is that there are a lot of similarly situated programs, and whether the NCAA wants to commit to the number of schools that could go down in this.

If you drop that penalty on Arizona, I agree with the estimate that there are a minimum of 100 D1 programs that have done things to earn a roughly comparable penalty.

I hear what you are saying Spiff but that particular argument has NEVER flown with the NCAA. Tarkanian and UNLV used it for years. How did it work out for them???

The difference between us and the other 100 D1 programs you reference is that the FBI doesn't have tapes of their BBall assistants.

At the end of the day the NCAA may not even need to take action against us.............Heeke and the UA administration (not to mention Larry Scott) may move to self sanction the UA BBall program in order to avoid more drastic NCAA action down the road.

[YoDeFoe]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

Just want to note how appreciative I am of your clarity in all of this, 97.

I'm still worried that we're going to lose a current player but it sounds like the program itself is in the right hands (Miller's).

[Longhorned]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

Just want to note how appreciative I am of your clarity in all of this, 97.

I'm still worried that we're going to lose a current player but it sounds like the program itself is in the right hands (Miller's).

Seconded. Thank you, 97cats.

[Chicat]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

Definitely Rawle, but notice that his tweet is so vague that it practically begs for speculation.

This is the same dingleberry who put out vague misleading info on Trier last year.

[YoDeFoe]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

Definitely Rawle, but notice that his tweet is so vague that it practically begs for speculation.

This is the same dingleberry who put out vague misleading info on Trier last year.

Wait that's what ACE looks like?

[97cats]

Rawle has a broken foot -- out 8-12 weeks

[Chicat]

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

Uh, WTF??

We weren't watching fucking dog fights. No one was abused. These kids got opportunities to get top notch instruction and training, a free education, and in at least some cases some money to help themselves and their families.

Please tell me why I should think of myself as a horrible person. This should be good...

Umm..i don't. Maybe read it again.

I was called a hypocrite for "knowing" And still watching and calling out other teams.

I am guessing you haven't read any of my posts

Posts are coming fast and furious .... which is why I'm guessing you missed my follow up. Your phrasing isn't at all clear.

[UofAlum05]

There has been no bigger supporter of Miller than I. I roll my eyes at the Zone D issues and have felt that Arizona couldn't be in better hands for a long time.

But Book is a dumb shit....we've known this for years. It was just a few years ago that many of us diehards thought he wasn't even a serious recruiter for us anymore. And of course Book (Fredo) wanted his $5k to pocket and it drug this all out for us to be the ones taking the most heat (exception Louisville). That's on Miller, IMO. Miller should have canned his ass a few years ago or at the very least highly recommended him for the Georgetown, St. Johns, or other gigs his name came up for.

[97cats]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

Just want to note how appreciative I am of your clarity in all of this, 97.

I'm still worried that we're going to lose a current player but it sounds like the program itself is in the right hands (Miller's).

you are most welcome -- I freely admit I don't have a boat load of information on this, but with the events of yesterday and today I can be more transparent on this and past issues.

I will do my best to answer and provide clarity where I can.

[Olsondogg]

Someone posted a Bickley “article”. This thread has it all.


Buckley should stick to his shitty band and his aging mullet

[97cats]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

Just want to note how appreciative I am of your clarity in all of this, 97.

I'm still worried that we're going to lose a current player but it sounds like the program itself is in the right hands (Miller's).

Seconded. Thank you, 97cats.

as for you, one of my favorites, ANYTIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[97cats]

Someone posted a Bickley “article”. This thread has it all.


Buckley should stick to his shitty band and his aging mullet

lmmfao -- Whiskey is Cheaper

[Olsondogg]

Even I appreciate the info from 97cats...

[97cats]

Lucas

or

20-30 other programs feel the noose tighten on their respective neck(s) and college basketball as we know it and college athletics to a certain extent is changed (for the better) forever

I'm all for reform but I would prefer to be one of the 20-30 programs that feels the noose tightened than the one drug out and shot in the head in front of everyone else.

there will be other old yeller's -- you can count on that!!

[97cats]

Even I appreciate the info from 97cats...

this thread now truly has it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Longhorned]

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

Uh, WTF??

We weren't watching fucking dog fights. No one was abused. These kids got opportunities to get top notch instruction and training, a free education, and in at least some cases some money to help themselves and their families.

Please tell me why I should think of myself as a horrible person. This should be good...

Umm..i don't. Maybe read it again.

I was called a hypocrite for "knowing" And still watching and calling out other teams.

I am guessing you haven't read any of my posts

Posts are coming fast and furious .... which is why I'm guessing you missed my follow up. Your phrasing isn't at all clear.

I still don't understand what you mean, EVCat. While I do think I'm a horrible person, it seems you think you and everyone else here is as well. Are you missing some punctuation and lettering, or is that what you mean?

[Olsondogg]

All I want is UCLA and Alford.

Burn that motherfucking fuck to the fucking ground

[Olsondogg]

Even I appreciate the info from 97cats...

this thread now truly has it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do what I can in my own special way.

You all are welcome. I tried to quit this fucking place. Fail

[Longhorned]

Even I appreciate the info from 97cats...

(Are art history jokes funny?)

[HiCat]

Wow..can I get an amen..

[azgreg]

Even I appreciate the info from 97cats...

this thread now truly has it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All this is bad but at least Wurstkushe is still open.....right?

[97cats]

Even I appreciate the info from 97cats...

this thread now truly has it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All this is bad but at least Wurstkushe is still open.....right?

yes and serving up the best sausages in town!!

[97cats]

fuck it, so who wants to hear something else super secret that I would never post in the past, ever????

[Olsondogg]

Btw. I already bought my flight to Vegas for pac tourney...I’ll buy any you mofo a beer.

[CalStateTempe]

Rawle has a broken foot -- out 8-12 weeks

Yup that's about right.

Hope we have him back for PAC 12 play.

As always 97, thanks for all the information and clarity of thought. Much much appreciated.

[Olsondogg]

I’m all ears (or eyes I guess).

[ASUHATER!]

fuck it, so who wants to hear something else super secret that I would never post in the past, ever????

Why not

[NYCat]

Do it

[Longhorned]

fuck it, so who wants to hear something else super secret that I would never post in the past, ever????

Let it roll.

[97cats]

Miller intentionally missed on Bowen and Walker cause at that time he was already contacted by the FBI and knew the prob and watch was on, he wanted to try and show that Arizona doesn't pay for its players and subsequently backed off and let the other programs (Miami and Louisville) pay and land their guy.

[CalStateTempe]

There has been no bigger supporter of Miller than I. I roll my eyes at the Zone D issues and have felt that Arizona couldn't be in better hands for a long time.

But Book is a dumb shit....we've known this for years. It was just a few years ago that many of us diehards thought he wasn't even a serious recruiter for us anymore. And of course Book (Fredo) wanted his $5k to pocket and it drug this all out for us to be the ones taking the most heat (exception Louisville). That's on Miller, IMO. Miller should have canned his ass a few years ago or at the very least highly recommended him for the Georgetown, St. Johns, or other gigs his name came up for.

This is where I am at too. How a great program is brought down by such a selfish short term thinking idiot. My anger at this guys is off the charts.

[Olsondogg]

Explain T-Ferg and Josh Jackson...those both baffle me for different reasons.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Miller intentionally missed on Bowen and Walker cause at that time he was already contacted by the FBI and knew the prob and watch was on, he wanted to try and show that Arizona doesn't pay for its players and subsequently backed off and let the other programs (Miami and Louisville) pay and land their guy.

Now that is why I come here. The more you feel like sharing, the better!

[Longhorned]

Miller intentionally missed on Bowen and Walker cause at that time he was already contacted by the FBI and knew the prob and watch was on, he wanted to try and show that Arizona doesn't pay for its players and subsequently backed off and let the other programs (Miami and Louisville) pay and land their guy.

Thanks for this. But for those of us who read between the lines of what you say, you already told us that.

So give us another.

[NYCat]

Who tipped off Sean, is what I want to know

Cal?

[SCCats]

Heh