The 2019-2020 Season Thread

[Merkin]

Secondly is what to do about Dylan Smith. He made some big shots late in regulation to give us the lead, then committed a horrible turnover with a 4 point lead and missed a front end 1and 1. Miller sat him down after that in regulation. Great move. Then brought him back in OT where he went 0-2 with 2 more turnovers. The loss of Doutrive really impacts this team. What are Miller’s options going forward? We need production from that position.

Smith is the new Shakur. Has some great moments but cracks under pressure and doesn't do well in big games.

I'd give Baker more minutes. At least he can make a FT.

[zonagrad]

Secondly is what to do about Dylan Smith. He made some big shots late in regulation to give us the lead, then committed a horrible turnover with a 4 point lead and missed a front end 1and 1. Miller sat him down after that in regulation. Great move. Then brought him back in OT where he went 0-2 with 2 more turnovers. The loss of Doutrive really impacts this team. What are Miller’s options going forward? We need production from that position.

Smith is the new Shakur. Has some great moments but cracks under pressure and doesn't do well in big games.

I'd give Baker more minutes. At least he can make a FT.

This may be the evolution of our roster. Same thing applies to Jeter and Koloko. But circumstances change with opponents matchups, injuries, etc...
I had high hopes for Doutrive. His dismissal was a huge loss.

[CatFanOneMil]

Secondly is what to do about Dylan Smith. He made some big shots late in regulation to give us the lead, then committed a horrible turnover with a 4 point lead and missed a front end 1and 1. Miller sat him down after that in regulation. Great move. Then brought him back in OT where he went 0-2 with 2 more turnovers. The loss of Doutrive really impacts this team. What are Miller’s options going forward? We need production from that position.

Smith is the new Shakur. Has some great moments but cracks under pressure and doesn't do well in big games.

I'd give Baker more minutes. At least he can make a FT.

Smith is an enigma wrapped up in a mystery waiting for a conundrum to arrive in a paradox...

He has moments of flashing brilliance punctuated by clouds of utter fail...I will say he is trending in the right direction for once and it's about damn time...he is one of the most experienced players we have...

And I will add that he does a decent job on defense...he's quick enough...but he and Jeter bring enough senior level choke to the team to make up for any hope we might have...

If the wildcats are known as the "heart attack cats" then Jeter and Smith might be high cholesterol...we need to put the team back on a Zeke diet...

I will also add that the late game drag out the clock stuff has NEVER worked for us...I wish we did not try to one and one isolate since everyone in the entire world knows what we are going to do and plans for it...just once I'd like to see Miller end a close game pushing everything through the post.

It's almost like he SAYS defense is the key but instead of depending on making a quick bucket and defending he waits out the clock on offense until there's no time left and panic sets in due to some fucking circus shot by an opponent in a hurry...

[pc in NM]

If Arizona had been beaten soundly at Oregon, then there would be justified criticism and need to worry. Same with our other losses. But the facts say otherwise.

It’s January 10th and Arizona just went into Oregon and slugged it out with a top ten team. I hope there’s a bad taste after losing in OT. There should be. Some bad luck. Bad decisions. Bad execution. And yet Arizona lost by a point in overtime.

It’s not to say everything is ok and be Pollyanna. But there’s definite growth by this team, especially our freshmen. It’s our veterans who are the concern right now and how much we can trust them moving forward. Jeter looks great one game and awful the next. Miller sat his ass in the second half, which was the right move. What’s Jeter going to do? Man up or call it quits. His performance in such a big game was last night’s biggest disappointment. And it puts unfair pressure on Koloko, Gettings, Nnaji and everyone else.

Secondly is what to do about Dylan Smith. He made some big shots late in regulation to give us the lead, then committed a horrible turnover with a 4 point lead and missed a front end 1and 1. Miller sat him down after that in regulation. Great move. Then brought him back in OT where he went 0-2 with 2 more turnovers. The loss of Doutrive really impacts this team. What are Miller’s options going forward? We need production from that position.

I was hoping we’d attack Oregon’s press a bit more and make them pay. But when you look at the turnovers from a guy like Smith, that’s a hard decision to make because it can backfire quickly against a team like Oregon. I thought Miller coached a great game considering Jeter disappeared. We had the lead and the ball but committed a few turnovers and missed some critical FTs. And the officiating certainly helped Oregon’s cause. Pritchard was afforded a few calls that Mannion didn’t get.

I can only be optimistic after last night. But our weaknesses aren’t going anywhere either. But clearly we’re a very good team and showed that we can win this conference.

I think we should all remember that our NC team could beat anyone AND they could also lose to anyone - almost did twice in that 6-game championship run, against the two weakest teams they faced!!

Now is not the time for any drastic conclusions or final decisions about any of our players, and especially the coach....

[ChooChooCat]

ESPN has us as a 5 seed, so for those who are scared of a 8/9 matchup pump the brakes. Metrics matter now and Arizona (even without "good wins") is winning the metrics game. Hell we even went up a spot in Kenpom after last night.

I like what I saw last night. It's far from a complete picture, but it's a picture coming together. One of these fucking days the ball is going to bounce our way when it matters.

[Beachcat97]

All things considered, I think we’re somehow in a better place this morning than 24 hours ago. We came within a few plays of beating a national title contender in their building. Nico looked better. I’m actually optimistic for the rest of Pac play. Call me naive.

[Spaceman Spiff]

ESPN has us as a 5 seed, so for those who are scared of a 8/9 matchup pump the brakes. Metrics matter now and Arizona (even without "good wins") is winning the metrics game. Hell we even went up a spot in Kenpom after last night.

I like what I saw last night. It's far from a complete picture, but it's a picture coming together. One of these fucking days the ball is going to bounce our way when it matters.

The computers show us much more respect than the "experts" do, too. Computer wise, we're a 3-4 seed right now.

The pieces to a very, very good team are there and you can see the positive momentum. Obviously a win would have been better, but a 1 point OT loss is not a bad thing.

[RawleArenas]

A bit off topic, but the play at 6:20 in the second half ticked me off. You hate to have a good defensive stand end in a loose ball scramble that results in a three point shot for the opposition. I was so livid.

Anyway, it seems that Altman does a good job of replicating the toughness and physicality (not necessarily defense) that we had in our '14 and '15 teams. That said, I'm very encouraged by our progress, hopefully Miller throws a few wrinkles into his late game strategies so that we're not so easily scoutable.

[PHXCATS]

ESPN has us as a 5 seed, so for those who are scared of a 8/9 matchup pump the brakes. Metrics matter now and Arizona (even without "good wins") is winning the metrics game. Hell we even went up a spot in Kenpom after last night.

I like what I saw last night. It's far from a complete picture, but it's a picture coming together. One of these fucking days the ball is going to bounce our way when it matters.

Exactly, the #11 team in Kenpom and #13 in NET does not get the fucking 8/9 seed game. It is a 4-5 seed at worst and there is plenty of time to climb back up and get some solid wins like Oregon at home, Stanford, Colorado, Oregon, Washington

[dirtbags]

Secondly is what to do about Dylan Smith. He made some big shots late in regulation to give us the lead, then committed a horrible turnover with a 4 point lead and missed a front end 1and 1. Miller sat him down after that in regulation. Great move. Then brought him back in OT where he went 0-2 with 2 more turnovers. The loss of Doutrive really impacts this team. What are Miller’s options going forward? We need production from that position.

Smith is the new Shakur. Has some great moments but cracks under pressure and doesn't do well in big games.

I'd give Baker more minutes. At least he can make a FT.

Smith is an enigma wrapped up in a mystery waiting for a conundrum to arrive in a paradox...

He has moments of flashing brilliance punctuated by clouds of utter fail...I will say he is trending in the right direction for once and it's about damn time...he is one of the most experienced players we have...

And I will add that he does a decent job on defense...he's quick enough...but he and Jeter bring enough senior level choke to the team to make up for any hope we might have...

If the wildcats are known as the "heart attack cats" then Jeter and Smith might be high cholesterol...we need to put the team back on a Zeke diet...

I will also add that the late game drag out the clock stuff has NEVER worked for us...I wish we did not try to one and one isolate since everyone in the entire world knows what we are going to do and plans for it...just once I'd like to see Miller end a close game pushing everything through the post.

It's almost like he SAYS defense is the key but instead of depending on making a quick bucket and defending he waits out the clock on offense until there's no time left and panic sets in due to some fucking circus shot by an opponent in a hurry...

i guess the thing to do with dylan smith is not let him dribble? he may be improving but is still a tremendous liability on the floor anytime he handles the ball. all of his great contributions last night were canceled by his blunders at the tail end of the game. so over that dude.

[StickItInTheyFace]

Secondly is what to do about Dylan Smith. He made some big shots late in regulation to give us the lead, then committed a horrible turnover with a 4 point lead and missed a front end 1and 1. Miller sat him down after that in regulation. Great move. Then brought him back in OT where he went 0-2 with 2 more turnovers. The loss of Doutrive really impacts this team. What are Miller’s options going forward? We need production from that position.

Smith is the new Shakur. Has some great moments but cracks under pressure and doesn't do well in big games.

I'd give Baker more minutes. At least he can make a FT.

Smith is an enigma wrapped up in a mystery waiting for a conundrum to arrive in a paradox...

He has moments of flashing brilliance punctuated by clouds of utter fail...I will say he is trending in the right direction for once and it's about damn time...he is one of the most experienced players we have...

And I will add that he does a decent job on defense...he's quick enough...but he and Jeter bring enough senior level choke to the team to make up for any hope we might have...

If the wildcats are known as the "heart attack cats" then Jeter and Smith might be high cholesterol...we need to put the team back on a Zeke diet...

I will also add that the late game drag out the clock stuff has NEVER worked for us...I wish we did not try to one and one isolate since everyone in the entire world knows what we are going to do and plans for it...just once I'd like to see Miller end a close game pushing everything through the post.

It's almost like he SAYS defense is the key but instead of depending on making a quick bucket and defending he waits out the clock on offense until there's no time left and panic sets in due to some fucking circus shot by an opponent in a hurry...

i guess the thing to do with dylan smith is not let him dribble? he may be improving but is still a tremendous liability on the floor anytime he handles the ball. all of his great contributions last night were canceled by his blunders at the tail end of the game. so over that dude.

When he stays in his role, shooting and defending, he is more than a solid player. When he tries to make an entry pass or drive is where issues arise. You can bet Miller is hammering getting the ball to Nico after we get stopped on the fastbreak moving forward. Miller's set really tries to use 2 ball handlers. Issue is that when Smith is on the floor, for some reason that's him and not always Green.
Last night made me have the most back and forth feelings about him I've ever had.

[SabinoDrifter]

I'd imagine we are going to see Lee and Gettings get a lot more minutes at the 4/PF going forward. Chase is basically the same player as last year per the metrics and pretty disappointing to see no marginal improvement for him in his fourth year.

Smith's shooting has improved significantly over last year, but he's still a turnover machine. Can't have that with experience.

[Alieberman]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

[StickItInTheyFace]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

Not choo, but heres my take. Offensively I have no clue what he's doing. Zeke is playing so many minutes and if the other team plays big, there's nowhere we can put him on the floor. I think he gets some go against some of the lesser Pac teams soon. Hopefully he gets it going, just hard to have very much confidence in him on the offensive side of the ball and defensive without him fouling. Probably why we saw less of him in the high profile games. Always really loved Lee, hope he gets it going.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

Depth is the first thing. Now that Koloko's in the mix, we have 5 guys competing for 80 minutes total. Zeke is gonna eat up a ton of them.

Gettings has offensive versatility that Lee doesn't. I think that limits Ira. Stone can shoot and play on the perimeter in a way Ira can't.

Especially when Zeke is killing it on the glass, Ira's ability to mix it up inside is less necessary. This is completely an outsider's perspective.

[ChooChooCat]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

I have no info as to why, but all you have to do is watch him play and it's a bit obvious. He still makes too many mistakes quite frankly and the other options (Zeke, Stone, Koloko) provide better every thing at this point.

[ChooChooCat]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

[Chicat]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

I have no info as to why, but all you have to do is watch him play and it's a bit obvious. He still makes too many mistakes quite frankly and the other options (Zeke, Stone, Koloko) provide better every thing at this point.

Never mistake activity for productivity.

Just because Ira is flying all over the place with his elbows out doesn’t mean he’s actually being a productive member of the team on the floor.

I do appreciate the effort (he’s the anti-Jeter) but there’s got to be some skill there too.

[zonagrad]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

I have no info as to why, but all you have to do is watch him play and it's a bit obvious. He still makes too many mistakes quite frankly and the other options (Zeke, Stone, Koloko) provide better every thing at this point.

Lee was god awful vs. Gonzaga. Totally lost on defense and had to be pulled. And he commits too many turnovers relative to minutes played.

All of our bigs have different skill sets and it depends on opponent matchups. Consistency is also the biggest problem. See Chase Jeter.

[Alieberman]

Can someone please explain to me (Like Choo) why Ira Lee gets so few minutes?

I'm baffled

I have no info as to why, but all you have to do is watch him play and it's a bit obvious. He still makes too many mistakes quite frankly and the other options (Zeke, Stone, Koloko) provide better every thing at this point.

This isn't what I'm seeing. I see him playing tough minutes every time he is out, plays hard D, gets the right guy the ball at the right time and never takes a dumb shot.

[StickItInTheyFace]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Yeah, thats so fucking annoying. This team is easily top 5 with him here. I wanted to see him and Nico together so badly.

[Beachcat97]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Crazy that we almost had Doutrive and Williams on this team. Baker and Hazzard would've never seen the floor.

[RawleArenas]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Can you imagine if we had BWill and Terry Armstrong? Not only would Smith be rendered irrelevant, we would be the prohibitive favorites to win the title.

Also, in light of the Akinjo's commitment, what would last year have been if Akinjo and Brown had been a part of those teams? That's a solid tourney team as well.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Yeah, thats so fucking annoying. This team is easily top 5 with him here. I wanted to see him and Nico together so badly.

Williams and Nico would have been unreal together. We would have been an unparalleled ability to have two high level PG's together.

I was really looking forward to that pairing. When Dylan was off, we would just roll with Nico, BWill and Josh.

[Longhorned]

Coupla things:

1) I know a woman in Nogales who, if I introduce any of you to, will make you draw a line and divide your life into before you knew her, and after you knew her.

2) I can make you a guacamole that will fill a hole in your soul you didn't even know you had. You'll forget about the recent overtime road loss to Oregon, give away all your things, and just walk off into the desert wearing a poncho.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Coupla things:

1) I know a woman in Nogales who, if I introduce any of you to, will make you draw a line and divide your life into before you knew her, and after you knew her.

2) I can make you a guacamole that will fill a hole in your soul you didn't even know you'll have. You'll forget about the recent overtime road loss to Oregon, give away all your things, and just walk off into the desert wearing a poncho.

Guacamol that fills a hole in your soul is one of my favorite rap bars. I'd start a poll to see if you're a troll, but you're ona roll. Last night the Ducks flapped, now butts are chapped from being slapped. We're trapped debating if we're capped in mediocrity and I've snapped. We're past Santa's droll mouth and coal pouch and 2020 brings a whole new ouch.

[ChooChooCat]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Can you imagine if we had BWill and Terry Armstrong? Not only would Smith be rendered irrelevant, we would be the prohibitive favorites to win the title.

Also, in light of the Akinjo's commitment, what would last year have been if Akinjo and Brown had been a part of those teams? That's a solid tourney team as well.

I'm beyond confident that Terry Armstrong would've never played a minute over Dylan Smith.

[Beachcat97]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Can you imagine if we had BWill and Terry Armstrong? Not only would Smith be rendered irrelevant, we would be the prohibitive favorites to win the title.

Also, in light of the Akinjo's commitment, what would last year have been if Akinjo and Brown had been a part of those teams? That's a solid tourney team as well.

I'm beyond confident that Terry Armstrong would've never played a minute over Dylan Smith.

Oh man. If Miller deserves criticism at this point, it has to be because of his abiding loyalty to Smith.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Can you imagine if we had BWill and Terry Armstrong? Not only would Smith be rendered irrelevant, we would be the prohibitive favorites to win the title.

Also, in light of the Akinjo's commitment, what would last year have been if Akinjo and Brown had been a part of those teams? That's a solid tourney team as well.

I'm beyond confident that Terry Armstrong would've never played a minute over Dylan Smith.

Oh man. If Miller deserves criticism at this point, it has to be because of his abiding loyalty to Smith.

Last night was ok Dylan. He hit 3's, which is huge for his offense because he isn't effective going to the rim. His D is solid.

3 to's is not good. He is so, so much more effective when his shots are all 3's and then he just plays D and rebounds. Handling and passing the ball is not his forte.

[zonagrad]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Can you imagine if we had BWill and Terry Armstrong? Not only would Smith be rendered irrelevant, we would be the prohibitive favorites to win the title.

Also, in light of the Akinjo's commitment, what would last year have been if Akinjo and Brown had been a part of those teams? That's a solid tourney team as well.

I'm beyond confident that Terry Armstrong would've never played a minute over Dylan Smith.

Oh man. If Miller deserves criticism at this point, it has to be because of his abiding loyalty to Smith.

It's not about abiding loyalty to Smith. It's about performance and production, much of which is revealed in practice away from the fans' eyes. Miller has shown no hesitation in benching Smith. He did so the entire second half against St. John's. And Arizona erased a 14 point half time deficit, took the lead, only to lose after a last second shot.

Last summer, Arizona was looking at Brandon Williams as a possibility, then Doutrive and then Smith (in that order). When Williams went down, it was enough to convince Doutrive to abandon the transfer idea and come back. His off-court issues and (apparently) poor attitude ultimately led to his dismissal. That left Miller with Smith getting the majority of minutes. Smith has been jeckyll & hyde for Arizona -- maddening at times. And no doubt maddening for Miller. And there's no easy answer. Jemarl Baker? Maybe -- but if he's not getting more minutes than Smith it's probably because he's not performing better in practice. It's not as though Baker has performed so well in games that it's a cut and dry decision. Hazzard is too small to consistently guard effectively. Green moving to the 2-guard and going big with Gettings/Nnaji/Jeter/Koloko/Lee is an option but that also creates matchup problems galore on the perimeter.

So what to do to take only the good plays made by Smith but eliminate the bad? Up until the last two minutes last night, Smith was having a helluva game. Then he made a terrible decision on a back-door pass to Mannion with a 4 point lead and a chance to put Oregon on the ropes. Moments later, Smith was fouled and missed the front end of the 1 and 1 with 1:30 remaining and another chance to make it a six point game. He then fouled Richardson (who made both FTs to make it a two point game). Miller yanked Smith for the remainder of regulation and rolled the dice with Baker. Once in overtime, Miller needed better defense on Oregon -- Smith was guarding Pritchard at times. Baker did nothing when given the opportunity. He didn't make a FG and committed three fouls. Smith was worse in OT with two missed shots and two turnovers.

So yeah, Doutrive or Brandon Williams looks like a helluva lot better scenario than having Smith or Baker. But those are the cards Miller has to play right now and it's hard to believe that's going to change between now and March.

[AZCatGirl]

Glad I had something better to do than watch the game.......

Than why did you have nothing better to do than come to this forum and whine about a game you didn’t watch?

Because I'm annoyed we're going to lose in the first weekend of the tournament... again.

Why that doesn't bother the rest of you is beyond me.

[catgrad97]

Glad I had something better to do than watch the game.......

Than why did you have nothing better to do than come to this forum and whine about a game you didn’t watch?

Because I'm annoyed we're going to lose in the first weekend of the tournament... again.

Why that doesn't bother the rest of you is beyond me.

It'll bother more after the unexpected loss to a Pac-12 cellar dweller. Because while this team is "building," a team as young as this is also just as susceptible to regressing.

Too many of our fans want to pretend like last night wasn't one of this team's spikes in its performance this season--that it's just part of a gradual upward curve.

I've seen far too many seasons of regressive step backs and hiccups from even more talented Arizona teams to guarantee that won't be the case. We're going to lose at least one more nobody expects to lose. We're going to have at least one more "bad loss."

(To perpetuate that analogy to our '97 champions, if you'll pardon me, 23 years ago this coming Thursday, they lost by 13 at an unranked USC team. Bad loss, to be sure. Thing is, that team could be forgiven its regression due to its prior victories over the nation's 18th-, 7th-, and 3rd-ranked teams already in their non-conference schedule.)

If, with this team, said "bad loss" comes before the tournament, those same fans will come back with, "OK, we got that out of our system. We're overdue some luck now. Onward and upward!"

If it comes in that first weekend, as you fear, the usual general bewilderment, blaming of officials, claims of "We're only one or two missed shots away" and rationalizations of "We can't do any better than Miller" will ensue.

All part of rationalizing the hitching of one's wagon to a falling star, I guess. Personally, my family has far more claim on my time these days than the search for encouraging metrics or the hanging of recruiting banners.

(And you can tell from my avatar I'm a huge Miller fan. But the man is just too worn down from fighting too many battles to win his way instead of adapting to fit his highly-ranked classes' strengths. He's not nearly the same coach he was five years ago.)

[zonagrad]

Glad I had something better to do than watch the game.......

Than why did you have nothing better to do than come to this forum and whine about a game you didn’t watch?

Because I'm annoyed we're going to lose in the first weekend of the tournament... again.

Why that doesn't bother the rest of you is beyond me.

It'll bother more after the unexpected loss to a Pac-12 cellar dweller. Because while this team is "building," a team as young as this is also just as susceptible to regressing.

Too many of our fans want to pretend like last night wasn't one of this team's spikes in its performance this season--that it's just part of a gradual upward curve.

I've seen far too many seasons of regressive step backs and hiccups from even more talented Arizona teams to guarantee that won't be the case. We're going to lose at least one more nobody expects to lose. We're going to have at least one more "bad loss."

(To perpetuate that analogy to our '97 champions, if you'll pardon me, 23 years ago this coming Thursday, they lost by 13 at a lousy USC team. Bad loss, to be sure. Thing is, that team could be forgiven its regression due to its prior victories over the nation's 18th-, 7th-, and 3rd-ranked teams already in their non-conference schedule.)

If, with this team, said "bad loss" comes before the tournament, those same fans will come back with, "OK, we got that out of our system. We're overdue some luck now. Onward and upward!"

If it comes in that first weekend, as you fear, the usual general bewilderment, blaming of officials, claims of "We're only one or two missed shots away" and rationalizations of "We can't do any better than Miller" will ensue.

All part of rationalizing the hitching of one's wagon to a falling star, I guess. Personally, my family has far more claim on my time these days than the search for encouraging metrics or the hanging of recruiting banners.

(And you can tell from my avatar I'm a huge Miller fan. But the man is just too worn down from fighting too many battles to win his way instead of adapting to fit his highly-ranked classes' strengths. He's not nearly the same coach he was five years ago.)

We’re all so bought in with this program that we over value many of its parts. Guys like Jeter, Lee, Smith, Hazzard, Gettings and Baker, there’s absolutely nothing exceptional about them. Nothing!! Yet because they were once on someone’s radar as a valued recruit they are perceived to be superior players. Put them on a team like Washington State or Cal and they’re just another ok player you’d immediately think was no way worthy to wear an Arizona uniform. But it’s always been that way. We overvalued guys like Wessel and Edgerson and frankly, there was nothing exceptional about them either.

We have three very good (not great) freshmen. Without Doutrive or Williams, there is much less margin for error until our frosh mature and become more consistent. While we’ve dropped a few close games to good teams, we haven’t been manhandled and outclassed. I credit Miller for always making sure we fight to stay in a game. Maryland just got blasted and rolled over at Iowa. Can you imagine the meltdown if we lost by 18 at Utah or Stanford? That’s why I feel optimistic but certainly not overconfident about this team. We’re gonna be in every game because guys like Green, Mannion and Nnaji simply won’t allow us to roll over. We may get punched in the mouth (St. John’s), but we’re gonna fight back. In two of our losses, Jeter and Smith have been so bad that they were benched and didn’t return. That’s the weak link on our team and it isn’t going away. But the more our frogs mature, the more this becomes their team.

[PHXCATS]

Glad I had something better to do than watch the game.......

Than why did you have nothing better to do than come to this forum and whine about a game you didn’t watch?

Because I'm annoyed we're going to lose in the first weekend of the tournament... again.

Why that doesn't bother the rest of you is beyond me.

You must be so rich. Since you know the outcomes before they happen you must bet on them and make so much money

[Captain Obvious]

Glad I had something better to do than watch the game.......

Than why did you have nothing better to do than come to this forum and whine about a game you didn’t watch?

Because I'm annoyed we're going to lose in the first weekend of the tournament... again.

Why that doesn't bother the rest of you is beyond me.

It'll bother more after the unexpected loss to a Pac-12 cellar dweller. Because while this team is "building," a team as young as this is also just as susceptible to regressing.

Too many of our fans want to pretend like last night wasn't one of this team's spikes in its performance this season--that it's just part of a gradual upward curve.

I've seen far too many seasons of regressive step backs and hiccups from even more talented Arizona teams to guarantee that won't be the case. We're going to lose at least one more nobody expects to lose. We're going to have at least one more "bad loss."

(To perpetuate that analogy to our '97 champions, if you'll pardon me, 23 years ago this coming Thursday, they lost by 13 at a lousy USC team. Bad loss, to be sure. Thing is, that team could be forgiven its regression due to its prior victories over the nation's 18th-, 7th-, and 3rd-ranked teams already in their non-conference schedule.)

If, with this team, said "bad loss" comes before the tournament, those same fans will come back with, "OK, we got that out of our system. We're overdue some luck now. Onward and upward!"

If it comes in that first weekend, as you fear, the usual general bewilderment, blaming of officials, claims of "We're only one or two missed shots away" and rationalizations of "We can't do any better than Miller" will ensue.

All part of rationalizing the hitching of one's wagon to a falling star, I guess. Personally, my family has far more claim on my time these days than the search for encouraging metrics or the hanging of recruiting banners.

(And you can tell from my avatar I'm a huge Miller fan. But the man is just too worn down from fighting too many battles to win his way instead of adapting to fit his highly-ranked classes' strengths. He's not nearly the same coach he was five years ago.)

You've made several very valid points. The onward and upward assumptive reasoning that somehow we'll pull it all together and magically make a run that proves how much 'potential' we have is nothing but absurd logic. How often historically have we actually done that? Maybe 2 or 3 times in 30 years. Without a doubt that is not going to happen with this team. The 'something is different' about this team minions are only fooling themselves. In the end we all know how this ends; in embarrassing and abject failure. I've seen this picture over and over and quite frankly I've grown tired of it. It's the predictable pattern of excusal and neurotic rationalization that is intended to cushion the blow of yet another season rife with underachievement and incompetence. There's no 'metric' that can obscure the reality of where this program is at. Quite simply, we're not that good and what makes it worse are fans who routinely exhibit the arrogance that we actually are. Many in our delusional fan base need to wake up and accept that fact.

[Longhorned]

Glad I had something better to do than watch the game.......

Than why did you have nothing better to do than come to this forum and whine about a game you didn’t watch?

Because I'm annoyed we're going to lose in the first weekend of the tournament... again.

Why that doesn't bother the rest of you is beyond me.

I'm bothered, but to explain (and I'll oversimplify here), I do agree that so far this team looks like it will lose in the first weekend of the tournament, mostly because tournament games tend to be tussles where the winner shows more poise and desire, and executes, out-hustles, and generally rises to the occasion at the wire.

Whereas this team tightens its buttholes, frazzles, shrinks, and just wants to get the loss over with at the wire so the opposing players and fans can jump out of their skins with cathartic exaltation at their ascendant self-affirmation at the apex of the cosmos while we clean the bathroom floor with our tongues.

Secondly (and relatedly), we all know guards rule the roost in the tourney, and Nico so far looks relatively unprepared and unwilling or unable to lead this team to its potential.

The thing is, I also know that the tourney is a complete and total crapshoot, and even if I didn't have these specific, (for me) very damning concerns, I'd still be bothered by the very realistic prospect of losing unexpectedly, regardless of how good we look in January.

So I'm going to be bothered and enjoy the ride anyway. I'm not sure what's worse in college basketball: Having reason to feel confident about the tourney, or having reason to feel immanent loss. It's fucking madness, and there's no way out, at least for us here.

[goslingswagg]

You guys know what's the difference between Arizona being an undefeated team (or a least have 2-3 fewer losses) and what we are now? Brandon Williams.

Can you imagine if we had BWill and Terry Armstrong? Not only would Smith be rendered irrelevant, we would be the prohibitive favorites to win the title.

Also, in light of the Akinjo's commitment, what would last year have been if Akinjo and Brown had been a part of those teams? That's a solid tourney team as well.

I'm beyond confident that Terry Armstrong would've never played a minute over Dylan Smith.

Oh man. If Miller deserves criticism at this point, it has to be because of his abiding loyalty to Smith.

To be fair I think that has more to do with Armstrong than it does with Miller’s loyalty towards Smith...

[AZCatGirl]

(And you can tell from my avatar I'm a huge Miller fan. But the man is just too worn down from fighting too many battles to win his way instead of adapting to fit his highly-ranked classes' strengths. He's not nearly the same coach he was five years ago.)

You've articulated the problems far better than I could, but I think this is the biggest issue. Something feels different with Miller, and I think all the FBI/ESPN bullshit on top of his crazy schedule has just worn the man out. He won't take a break unless forced, but man I think a few years off could make a world of difference.

[RawleArenas]

(And you can tell from my avatar I'm a huge Miller fan. But the man is just too worn down from fighting too many battles to win his way instead of adapting to fit his highly-ranked classes' strengths. He's not nearly the same coach he was five years ago.)

You've articulated the problems far better than I could, but I think this is the biggest issue. Something feels different with Miller, and I think all the FBI/ESPN bullshit on top of his crazy schedule has just worn the man out. He won't take a break unless forced, but man I think a few years off could make a world of difference.

This is quite an insightful post. Fans don't realize how hard it was for Miller to steady the ship during the FBI mess and still bring in top classes and win games. I'm sure it has taken quite a toll on his personal life. All the while fans just keep demanding more despite the collateral damage.

That's why I give Miller a lot rope considering what has happened over the past couple of years and the current landscape of college basketball. Geno (UCONN) used to say that he wishes that he could take a year off and just watch various teams practice across the country. I think Miller is the same way, it's just that it's completely unrealistic.

[RaisingArizona]

So Miller has lost his mojo but if Smith makes one free throw then Miller still has his mojo? I just want to make sure I understand.

I was at the game. If there was one thing that really bothered me it was a lack of hustle to loose balls and long rebounds. Aside from that perhaps the lackadaisical close to the first half. I know that some feel that we played too passively down the stretch. Personally I disagree. We played it by the percentages and given a made free throw we are very likely to have the biggest win in many years. It sucks but it’s hardly an indictment of Miller as a coach IMO.

[BBQ wildcat]

I see a lot of posters piling blame on Smith for turnopvers and missed free throws. Granted, Smith is far from blameless. But I would put more of the blame for the loss on Mannion. Only 3 assists to 6 turnovers, a 1:2 ratio, when a decent PG should have a 2:1 ratio. 1-5 from 3 range, and only one trip to the free throw line.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

I gotta say, I would have loved to have won that game but, man, they played hard, were good, just got flustered at the end of reg and ot. Few other dumb mistakes in there that kept us from clinching it. This young team gave that well coached, experienced, well led team a real game. A couple of bad breaks, a couple of rookie mistakes, change one of them and we win. This is the second game of the conference season, at Oregon. I'll take it.

[ASUHATER!]

At some point it'd be nice to stop hoping and wishing we could win games or compete with good teams...and actually beat them instead...

[PieceOfMeat]

OrSU game thread is up

[TheCat]

So Miller has lost his mojo but if Smith makes one free throw then Miller still has his mojo? I just want to make sure I understand.

I was at the game. If there was one thing that really bothered me it was a lack of hustle to loose balls and long rebounds. Aside from that perhaps the lackadaisical close to the first half. I know that some feel that we played too passively down the stretch. Personally I disagree. We played it by the percentages and given a made free throw we are very likely to have the biggest win in many years. It sucks but it’s hardly an indictment of Miller as a coach IMO.

Please keep logic away from this..........

[Alieberman]

This team has 3 1st round draft picks on it....3.... and we can't beat Oregon Fucking State.

[ASUHATER!]

Cant wait for more of the "us losing games proves we're actually a good team" posts.

[WildcatStunner]

Bubblelicious?

[AZCatGirl]

I hope no one gives the "It was just one bad game" bs excuse. This is a clear pattern. We suck, and as I already said, we're not doing shit in March.

[PieceOfMeat]

Really glad to have another quality loss on the resume.

Should really help come March