Bear Down Wildcats

Seems like we just need AT back. Gabe is going to make big shots for us. He always does. But in a situation like we had vs. Cal, AT gives us the best chance to draw a foul or make a shot.

Tighten that handle.

WildcatLouis wrote:
It is one thing to say that Gabe is our guy this year and deserves minutes, praise for sticking it out, the benefit of the doubt, etc., but it is quite another to get to "he is our guy in last second situations." These end-of-game scenarios are just above his pay-grade. York has average or below average handles for a guard. He has gotten into a lot of trouble dribbling into traffic this year, something that gets masked when he goes on a streak and hits four three-pointers in two minutes during a particular game.

I love Sean Miller, but if I had one criticism it would be that his last-second game planning is too predictable. A couple of years ago the plan was to give the ball to Nick Johnson in isolation. Now the plan is to give the ball to York in isolation. There tends to be very little movement outside of the primary ballhandler. The thing is that I don't mind York taking the last shot - he just shouldn't be the one to create it. York just doesn't have point guard quality court vision. He is a shooter and when the ball is in his hands in those situations he is only thinking about getting his - the problem is that the other team always knows that.

Here is the thing though, outside of Trier (who is injured, and still hasn't been given the opportunity to show he can do it), who is in that pay grade? Most of us knew before the season even started that Gabe was probably going to be the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of games. It's simple to me: Gabe is a great outside shooter, he shows in games that he can create spacing with his dribble and get a decent shot off on most defenders. He has done this multiple times this year with the shot clock winding down and hit quite a fair number or these shots. He can be loose with his handle at times and can make poor decisions, but I wouldnt call his handle below average by any stretch. He actually can effectively use his dribble (and the defender having to respect his outside shot) to get by his man, only problem is, the kid cant hit a floater or runner to save his life.

Sean Miller for the most part is fine. He has drawn up some great plays and our results have generally been good out of timeouts. There are exceptions, obviously, and still, the players have to execute. I think Space is spot on in his last few posts and his analysis of the other possible players was beyond what I was thinking, and he is 100 percent correct . We all dream up these scenarios and second guess after failures. And how many failures did we have in these situations under Lute? I can think of several "WTF" moments (Illinois elite 8 game?) under Lute. Like Spliff says, the success rate isnt good in these situations. Unfortunately as Arizona fans, we see more than our share of crap luck. It always seems like an Isaiah Thomas or Bryce Alford is hitting a game winner on us, but we have to rack our brains to come up with our game winners. And then we see all these other schools hit them in the tournament and it skews reality. Look at the numbers for possible game winning possessions and look at guys we regard as the most clutch and their actual shooting percentages in those situations: Lebron (34), Ray Allen (38), Dirk (32), Pierce (34), Wade (27), Bibby (36), Kobe (25). Melo is the only guy who has a ton of these opportunities and is over 40 percent (48 in the table Im looking at). Add to the fact that in addition to these percentages, they also turn the ball over roughly 1/10 of the time by the numbers I am looking at. And most of those guys are all time top 50 players and two top 10s, in the pro game with better spacing, and for the most part those are going to be inbounding the ball from mid court off a timeout.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Merkin wrote:York has been given 2 opportunities to make a play end of game with both USC and Cal. Both times he mishandled his dribble and ended up taking a bad shot. Maybe CSM was trying to get York some PG experience to show the scouts, I dunno.


Allen was completely wide open for a 3 point shot or better. You think York would have been at that spot, and Allen the ball handler. Don't know what was going through CSM's mind though.

York is the best scorer on the team (especially with Trier out). I would wager Miller's thought pattern is that you want your best scorer taking the last shot.

It's difficult to impossible to create for a post player in last shot scenarios. The D can double and if they can rotate well, they can just rotate the clock out. So that leaves perimeter players.

Miller has consistently gone high pick and roll for last shots. I like Allen, but I'm not sure I like him better in high p+r. With Gabe, you have to go over the top of the screen. With Allen, I don't think you do, and that gives the defense options.

So I just ran across this and felt good because I correctly predicted Sean Miller's thoughts on forcing defenders over vs under screens.

http://tucson.com/sports/blogs/pascoe/a ... f8542.html" target="_blank

Sure hope he's learned his lesson and stays off Twitter until he cools down......really need some Senior Leadershio right now!

Yea spliff, watched that Jan 26 presser.

Can't believe how much York's PG skills have deteriorated. He was never a true PG, but could at least handle the rock a bit. Dribbles the ball downs the court and it goes unforced right into a Duck player?

I've been critical after the Cal game but very, VERY classy post-game OSU interview young York. Classy. BTFD!

Career high 24 points, and I believe they said he's up to 8 on the all time 3 point list.

AZCatGirl wrote:Career high 24 points, and I believe they said he's up to 8 on the all time 3 point list.

So he'll leave here top 5 on the 3-pointer list. Damn, who would've guessed that back when he was a freshman?

The OG York city crew

How impressive is Chase Budinger at #7 in only 3 years??? Wow.

I had no idea Fogg was this high on the list. Amazing. He may be the biggest over achiever in Arizona history. In a normal AZ era he would have been a 10th man but because of the turmoil during the time he was here he was forced into a much bigger role than anyone would have thought. He may be the all time under appreciated Cat in AZ history

Alieberman wrote:

I had no idea Fogg was this high on the list. Amazing. He may be the biggest over achiever in Arizona history. In a normal AZ era he would have been a 10th man but because of the turmoil during the time he was here he was forced into a much bigger role than anyone would have thought. He may be the all time under appreciated Cat in AZ history

Agreed, that is a real shocker!

Alieberman wrote:

I had no idea Fogg was this high on the list. Amazing. He may be the biggest over achiever in Arizona history. In a normal AZ era he would have been a 10th man but because of the turmoil during the time he was here he was forced into a much bigger role than anyone would have thought. He may be the all time under appreciated Cat in AZ history

A lot of frustration was taken out on Foggy. Like the turmoil at the time was his fault.

Alieberman wrote:

I had no idea Fogg was this high on the list. Amazing. He may be the biggest over achiever in Arizona history. In a normal AZ era he would have been a 10th man but because of the turmoil during the time he was here he was forced into a much bigger role than anyone would have thought. He may be the all time under appreciated Cat in AZ history

Fogg started on a Sweet 16 team and an Elite Eight team. That's nothing to sneeze at. I've always thought he was underrated. He was not a high talent guy, but he got as much out of his talent as anyone at Arizona, ever.

In all of his four years in the program, I never understood the criticism leveled at Kyle Fogg.

Frankly, right now I would trade Parker Jackson-Cartwright, even Gabe some nights, for a senior Fogg.

Kyle always stayed in front of his man and just didn't hurt the team nearly as much defensively.

Maybe it's old age setting in, but don't remember that much hate for Fogg. Unlike the brutal treatment Shakur received all 4 years, and Frye his first 3. Can't leave out Jamelle Horne either with his nationally renowned bonehead mistakes.

Merkin wrote:Maybe it's old age setting in, but don't remember that much hate for Fogg. Unlike the brutal treatment Shakur received all 4 years, and Frye his first 3. Can't leave out Jamelle Horne either with his nationally renowned bonehead mistakes.

You just reminded me of Jamelle Horne and the intentional foul. It still amazes me I did not physically destroy the TV. I still can't put that experience into words.

catgrad97 wrote:In all of his four years in the program, I never understood the criticism leveled at Kyle Fogg.

Frankly, right now I would trade Parker Jackson-Cartwright, even Gabe some nights, for a senior Fogg.

Kyle always stayed in front of his man and just didn't hurt the team nearly as much defensively.

Goes without saying, both of them. Fogg shot 44 percent from deep senior season and was a very good defender. He was a damn good player his senior season

Only area Gabe is clearly better than Fogg right now is the baseline 3. That part of the floor was Kyle's Achilles heel and it hurt the Cats just enough against UConn.

more chucks

in the last seven games Gabe York has taken 103 shots making 43 -- for context, over that same span Ryan Anderson has taken 67 shots making 49

97cats wrote:more chucks

in the last seven games Gabe York has taken 103 shots making 43 -- for context, over that same span Ryan Anderson has taken 67 shots making 49

In Gabe's defense I think he has done this out of necessity with Zo out of the lineup. Looking forward to being back at full strength and not having any one player needing to take over the scoring.

I think some disliked Fogg as a reminder of where the program had fallen for him to have even been offered. People with that line of thinking seemed to hold it against him for his entire time here.

I liked the kid a lot. Always a hard player, never a problem, occasionally a game saver.

I want Gabe chucking behind the line. He's hitting 45 percent of those in conference games. Nobody has made more. It's his two-point game that's inefficient. Trier will take more of those shots.

gumby wrote:I want Gabe chucking behind the line. He's hitting 45 percent of those in conference games. Nobody has made more. It's his two-point game that's inefficient. Trier will take more of those shots.

same wavelength again!!!

Not that many games left in his career, Im fine with Gabe taking 8-10 threes a game. He can make at least 3 if not 5 of them

He only made 8 threes freshman year. Amazing he is near the top(193) but he'll never pass Damon at 272. Even if he had 50 freshman year he would need 38 more to pass Damon

Ryan...wow

York, PJC, Tolly...I want all of them shooting from out there. Frequently.

97cats wrote:more chucks

in the last seven games Gabe York has taken 103 shots making 43 -- for context, over that same span Ryan Anderson has taken 67 shots making 49

He'll always shoot a lower pure percentage because of the 3's, but his tsp and efg numbers aren't bad.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch ... /2016.html" target="_blank

One of the stories of that are the insane advanced stats Anderson is posting. The biggest criticism of Gabe is the low efficiency PER.

Gabe has missed just about every running floater he has taken this year. No joke. I have been paying attention to this because I made a comment in November about it to the guy next to me and that has been our ongoing thing to laugh at (besides Tolly). He has to be like like 1 or 2 for 30 this season. That step back midrange shot has been money lately though in the limited times he has shown it. Like Miller said in the presser a few weeks back, Gabe has to take those volume outside shots with Trier out. Even on the misses, important for balance and to open things up for the team offensively. Things will be better once Trier gets rolling.

Anderson's stats are insane. You know he is gonna get snubbed for something he deserves because he quietly does his thing. It doesn't even take watching how important he has been for this team; just look at the box score for every game we have played this season and his efficiency numbers. That's all they have to do.

50 makes on 124 attempts in his last eight games -- YIKES!!!!

I think he is shooting only 38% on the road this year :-/

97cats wrote:50 makes on 124 attempts in his last eight games -- YIKES!!!!

Not sure why this is noteworthy, that is right in line with his shooting percentages for his career at Arizona 40.3% vs. 41.3%. The turnover's this year I think are the bigger issue.

rgdeuce wrote:Gabe has missed just about every running floater he has taken this year.

Every one end of half/game possession for sure. I just cringe when he starts doing his Chris Rogers impression and starts pounding the ball with the shot clock winding down then drives throwing up an awful shot. York is a catch and shoot player. Average handle at best, and can't create his own shot.

Hero ball.

Can't imagine CSM drew up the play that way.

Merkin wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Gabe has missed just about every running floater he has taken this year.

Every one end of half/game possession for sure. I just cringe when he starts doing his Chris Rogers impression and starts pounding the ball with the shot clock winding down then drives throwing up an awful shot.

Hero ball.

Can't imagine CSM drew up the play that way.

People keep saying this "hero Ball" thing over and over but if he keeps doing it over and over, one would have to think that is exactly what CSM is telling him to do.

If CSM is letting him audition for the pros by doing that, I don't think it's working.



Maybe he is playing the odds and will hope it will work in the Elite 8 game.

gronk4heisman wrote:
Not sure why this is noteworthy

averaging 15.5 shot attempts over the last eight games is noteworthy -- in a negative noteworthy way when.....

gronk4heisman wrote:that is right in line with his shooting percentages for his career at Arizona 40.3% vs. 41.3%.

exactly why its noteworthy -- same percentages just more, thats not better

gronk4heisman wrote:The turnover's this year I think are the bigger issue.

exactly why this is noteworthy -- more chances equal.......well, i think you get the point???

Personally, I don't think any one player on this years team should be taking more than 20 shots. Unless majority of the attempts are makes.

97cats wrote:

gronk4heisman wrote:
Not sure why this is noteworthy

averaging 15.5 shot attempts over the last eight games is noteworthy -- in a negative noteworthy way when.....

gronk4heisman wrote:that is right in line with his shooting percentages for his career at Arizona 40.3% vs. 41.3%.

exactly why its noteworthy -- same percentages just more, thats not better

gronk4heisman wrote:The turnover's this year I think are the bigger issue.

exactly why this is noteworthy -- more chances equal.......well, i think you get the point???

Who else was going to take those shots? Without Trier, the rest of the team was pretty passive. On top of the difficulty in the college game of having a big as your first option, Anderson is a scrapper more than anything, he's not really a guy you run plays for - especially when your point guards are absolute garbage like ours have been for the past few weeks.

With Trier back, the hero ball load will be off of Gabe and he can go back to doing what he can do.

Now with Trier back York no longer needs to pretend he is a PG since he has the worst handles of the 4 guards.

Last 5 games: 7 assists 13 turnovers.

42.5% 2 point shooting.

Just catch and shoot the 3 Gabe. That's your game.

And trier being back will bring even more open opportunities for York

Gabe doing what he has been was a "necessary evil" (for a lack of a better term) with Trier out IMO.

rgdeuce wrote:Gabe doing what he has been was a "necessary evil" (for a lack of a better term) with Trier out IMO.

It was not a necessary evil. Shooting copious amounts of shots whilst hitting a minority of them is ridiculous. The ball should have gone inside repeatedly, over and over and over.

Olsondogg wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Gabe doing what he has been was a "necessary evil" (for a lack of a better term) with Trier out IMO.

It was not a necessary evil. Shooting copious amounts of shots whilst hitting a minority of them is ridiculous. The ball should have gone inside repeatedly, over and over and over.

York's true shooting % is 56, so when you account for the added value of a three pointer, he's not below 50%. The bigs are better, of course, but an offense has got to have some balance. 15 shots per game is too much though.

Interestingly, Trier's TS% is 64%, basically the same as Anderson and Tollefson.

Puerco wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Gabe doing what he has been was a "necessary evil" (for a lack of a better term) with Trier out IMO.

It was not a necessary evil. Shooting copious amounts of shots whilst hitting a minority of them is ridiculous. The ball should have gone inside repeatedly, over and over and over.

York's true shooting % is 56, so when you account for the added value of a three pointer, he's not below 50%. The bigs are better, of course, but an offense has got to have some balance. 15 shots per game is too much though.

Interestingly, Trier's TS% is 64%, basically the same as Anderson and Tollefson.

Trier's number, that's what getting to the line a ton will do for you. He generates so many FT attempts that he should always have a good/great TSP.

Olsondogg wrote: It was not a necessary evil. Shooting copious amounts of shots whilst hitting a minority of them is ridiculous. The ball should have gone inside repeatedly, over and over and over.

Puerco wrote: York's true shooting % is 56, so when you account for the added value of a three pointer, he's not below 50%. The bigs are better, of course, but an offense has got to have some balance. 15 shots per game is too much though.

Interestingly, Trier's TS% is 64%, basically the same as Anderson and Tollefson.

What Puerco said about spacing. Sean Miller talked about this and the other benefits (eg opening up things for others) in a presser too. And a lot of the offensive damage Ryan Anderson does is predicated on missed shots, so not all of those misses are negative results for us.

rgdeuce wrote:

Olsondogg wrote: It was not a necessary evil. Shooting copious amounts of shots whilst hitting a minority of them is ridiculous. The ball should have gone inside repeatedly, over and over and over.

Puerco wrote: York's true shooting % is 56, so when you account for the added value of a three pointer, he's not below 50%. The bigs are better, of course, but an offense has got to have some balance. 15 shots per game is too much though.

Interestingly, Trier's TS% is 64%, basically the same as Anderson and Tollefson.

What Puerco said about spacing. Sean Miller talked about this and the other benefits (eg opening up things for others) in a presser too. And a lot of the offensive damage Ryan Anderson does is predicated on missed shots, so not all of those misses are negative results for us.

I'd only add two things: first, guards wind up disproportionately asked to take bailout shots late in the shot clock, and lately it seems like Gabe is always the guy firing up something to beat the clock.

Next, it just isn't that easy to get consistent looks in the post. It isn't like other teams don't realize RA/DR and Zeus are the strength of this team. They have been since day 1. Without Trier, the York/Allen/Tolly/PJC/Simon wasn't the type of lineup great at opening space for post guys to operate. Gabe is the only guy you need to go over the top in a pick and roll for in that whole group.

Yes and yes.