Bear Down Wildcats

Good handles either hand, seems to have a nose for the ball like TJ. Shot release seems a little low like TJ, but not near as severe and can be corrected.

His release is also much quicker than TJ.

If he can become close to the distributor Tj was teams will have real trouble w him , especially as an upperclassmen because if they sag even a bit to block passing lanes he can burn them w a quick release 3

Nash? Pff, I think he was a two-star.

if his step back fadeaway is as accurate in college as it was in high school, he will be really hard to stop. It is an unblockable shot because it comes from such a far back angle. It is also a tough shot, but he makes it. That is what makes him a player at this level...he can shoot and handle, but he can also score off odd looking mid range stuff, like Nash. Just a lot of body control.

If the game being faster and less space affect his ability to be as successful in the midrange game, then he won't be a great player. These are things you just don't know until you get there. He just has a real ability to make off-balance stuff go off either leg, which is also a Nash-like quality, for lack of a better comparison. He doesn't force it, and maybe most importantly, does not over-penetrate. He uses that mid range game and the threat of it to either get a shot up or cause a defender to leave their man.

EVCat wrote:
What is wrong with a 4 star PG? Do we have to stick to only top 30 players as rated by Rivals? Can't recruit to need? I mean, Duke, Virginia, Stanford...all in on him.

He isn't an NBA one-and-done type player. But you can be a very, very good college player without possessing the body needed at the NBA level.

Yes and yes. Always good to look to see who is chasing after a kid, it isn't always about the stars and the ranking. When you start to see the best coaches pursuing, they see something, they are smarter than the scouts. Or sometimes that 4 star fits a specific need within a system, it isn't always about getting the best possible and throwing the team together.

I personally believe it is important for our program to send guys to the league. It's a huge selling point for recruits. But we have had those guys and our current roster may have as many as seven who I believe have at least a puncher's chance at being drafted and/or getting to the league at some point (KS, Trier, Alkins, Ristic, LM, Comanche, Smith). We have had a lot of roster turnover and not much stability at PG outside of TJ (and it was only for two years). That's why I really like this signing. Worst case scenario, this dude will probably be one of the best point guards in the conference as an upperclassman. Even if we bring in some top 10 PG stud for that time, Barcello is still going to get major minutes even if he isnt starting, especially because he can play off the ball as well. That is a nice luxury to have. Hell, as an upperclassman he may be better than just about any point guard you are going to find in future classes when you factor in experience.

EVCat wrote: If the game being faster and less space affect his ability to be as successful in the midrange game, then he won't be a great player. These are things you just don't know until you get there. He just has a real ability to make off-balance stuff go off either leg, which is also a Nash-like quality, for lack of a better comparison. He doesn't force it, and maybe most importantly, does not over-penetrate. He uses that mid range game and the threat of it to either get a shot up or cause a defender to leave their man.

If he works hard I wouldnt worry about it. TJ wasnt a burner by major conference standards and he had a low and slow release. He got his shots off. That was a concern for him in the NBA, and while guys aren't in his pocket on defense, he doesn't have problems getting his shot off. The NBA is obviously much faster and TJ is frequently the smallest guy on the court too. And despite his "average" athleticism and speed, he still looks faster than almost anyone else on the court because of his effort and skill set. When you have the ability to dribble and pass with vision, your shot becomes a lot easier to get off.

rgdeuce wrote:

EVCat wrote:
What is wrong with a 4 star PG? Do we have to stick to only top 30 players as rated by Rivals? Can't recruit to need? I mean, Duke, Virginia, Stanford...all in on him.

He isn't an NBA one-and-done type player. But you can be a very, very good college player without possessing the body needed at the NBA level.

Yes and yes. Always good to look to see who is chasing after a kid, it isn't always about the stars and the ranking. When you start to see the best coaches pursuing, they see something, they are smarter than the scouts. Or sometimes that 4 star fits a specific need within a system, it isn't always about getting the best possible and throwing the team together.

I personally believe it is important for our program to send guys to the league. It's a huge selling point for recruits. But we have had those guys and our current roster may have as many as seven who I believe have at least a puncher's chance at being drafted and/or getting to the league at some point (KS, Trier, Alkins, Ristic, LM, Comanche, Smith). We have had a lot of roster turnover and not much stability at PG outside of TJ (and it was only for two years). That's why I really like this signing. Worst case scenario, this dude will probably be one of the best point guards in the conference as an upperclassman. Even if we bring in some top 10 PG stud for that time, Barcello is still going to get major minutes even if he isnt starting, especially because he can play off the ball as well. That is a nice luxury to have. Hell, as an upperclassman he may be better than just about any point guard you are going to find in future classes when you factor in experience.

It is good to send guys to the league, but also important to remember that some of the guys who made it there weren't "all that" here. Iguodala, Jefferson, for instance.

And some who were greater contributors here -- Salim, Wright, Cook, Reeves, Simon. D Williams -- didn't make it there or got lost there.

Can guys whose significant contributions don't come until junior and seniors years -- Stoudamires, Reeves, Walton, for example -- be greater Wildcats than those who hit the starting lineup right away as five stars out of high school -- Stanley, Gordon, Bayless, for example.

Yes.

I think sometimes we evaluate these careers retroactively, rather than dial in on their college contributions.

Bibby the exception, not the rule.

Last year's all conference selections:

Elgin Cook, Ryan Anderson, Jaylen Brown, Roscoe Allen, Gary Payton II, Andrew Andrews, Josh Scott, Dillon Brooks, Julian Jacobs, Jakob Poetl.

I'm sure many here would've been less than impressed with landing some of these guys out of high school. But they progressed, became upperclassmen (most anyway) and rose to the top.

Some others from previous years:

Jerome Randle, Jeff Pendergraph, Taylor Rochestie (slow! white!), T.J. McConnell (slow! white!), Jorge Gutierrez, Ty Abbott, Kyle Fogg (oh wait .., we did scoff), Solo Hill, Jordan Hill, Larry Drew II (we got Brandon Jennings!), Justin Cobbs, Justin Dentmon, Kyle Weaver, and on and on.

Year that is an exception: 2007-08: Harden, Love, Bayless, Lopez Twins, Mayo, Brockman, Collison.

Re: the TJ comparisons, the bigger issue is whether Barcello can touch TJ's D and ball distribution. Those are the attributes that are hard to see in a mixtape, but they were the factors that made TJ the great contributor he was.

Barcello can shoot, but whether he comes close to TJ depends on the things that don't make the highlights. Is it too much to ask for a Barcello mixtape showing his recovery on the pick and roll and weakside rotation?

Don't see the TJ comp at all

Spaceman Spiff wrote:the bigger issue is whether Barcello can touch TJ's D

Look Spaceman, this is a family friendly website.....

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:the bigger issue is whether Barcello can touch TJ's D

Look Spaceman, this is a family friendly website.....

That's not what I was led to believe.

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:the bigger issue is whether Barcello can touch TJ's D

Look Spaceman, this is a family friendly website.....

Rey?

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

White ... ish ...

gumby wrote:

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

White ... ish ...

Comparisons for Barcello:

Mark Price
John Stockton
TJ
Bob Cousy
Steve Blake
The Professor
Michael J Fox's character in Teen Wolf

Am I missing anyone?

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

The TJ comparison is purely in being a below the rim player with handle and a midrange game and whether he can get the shot off at this level.

TJ was a pure point. Barcello can score and can play off the ball. TJ was an on ball defender, where Barcello is more a passing lane disrupter. Barcello is a much better shooter, but is not blessed with TJs court vision...yet. The other comparison is they will both play point at Arizona. But before going to the pigment card, if this was a black kid with below the rim athleticism but a good sense of running a team and creating scoring opportunities, it would still be the same comparison. The fact that Barcello happens to be white AND a good-but-not-great athletic specimen, much like TJ, is really a coincidence, and if people want to go for the low hanging fruit race bullshit, so be it. But that isn't the point. They have some similar hoops characteristics. But Barcello as a 17 year old is a better athlete, a better shooter, less of a ball defender, and I don't know of TJ at 17 to know how well he ran a team at point, but I know Barcello is capable.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

White ... ish ...

Comparisons for Barcello:

Mark Price
John Stockton
TJ
Bob Cousy
Steve Blake
The Professor
Michael J Fox's character in Teen Wolf

Am I missing anyone?

Rooster

Point Guard Eww!

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

White ... ish ...

Comparisons for Barcello:

Mark Price
John Stockton
TJ
Bob Cousy
Steve Blake
The Professor
Michael J Fox's character in Teen Wolf

Am I missing anyone?

Henry Steele


This guy

EVCat wrote:

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

The TJ comparison is purely in being a below the rim player with handle and a midrange game and whether he can get the shot off at this level.

TJ was a pure point. Barcello can score and can play off the ball. TJ was an on ball defender, where Barcello is more a passing lane disrupter. Barcello is a much better shooter, but is not blessed with TJs court vision...yet. The other comparison is they will both play point at Arizona. But before going to the pigment card, if this was a black kid with below the rim athleticism but a good sense of running a team and creating scoring opportunities, it would still be the same comparison. The fact that Barcello happens to be white AND a good-but-not-great athletic specimen, much like TJ, is really a coincidence, and if people want to go for the low hanging fruit race bullshit, so be it. But that isn't the point. They have some similar hoops characteristics. But Barcello as a 17 year old is a better athlete, a better shooter, less of a ball defender, and I don't know of TJ at 17 to know how well he ran a team at point, but I know Barcello is capable.

No shots, but this just sounds more like MoMo (which i'd be cool with) than TJ

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

White ... ish ...

Comparisons for Barcello:

Mark Price
John Stockton
TJ
Bob Cousy
Steve Blake
The Professor
Michael J Fox's character in Teen Wolf

Am I missing anyone?

Yeah, Randy Duck

Main Event wrote:

EVCat wrote:

Main Event wrote:Don't see the TJ comp at all

The TJ comparison is purely in being a below the rim player with handle and a midrange game and whether he can get the shot off at this level.

TJ was a pure point. Barcello can score and can play off the ball. TJ was an on ball defender, where Barcello is more a passing lane disrupter. Barcello is a much better shooter, but is not blessed with TJs court vision...yet. The other comparison is they will both play point at Arizona. But before going to the pigment card, if this was a black kid with below the rim athleticism but a good sense of running a team and creating scoring opportunities, it would still be the same comparison. The fact that Barcello happens to be white AND a good-but-not-great athletic specimen, much like TJ, is really a coincidence, and if people want to go for the low hanging fruit race bullshit, so be it. But that isn't the point. They have some similar hoops characteristics. But Barcello as a 17 year old is a better athlete, a better shooter, less of a ball defender, and I don't know of TJ at 17 to know how well he ran a team at point, but I know Barcello is capable.

No shots, but this just sounds more like MoMo (which i'd be cool with) than TJ

Barcello will not look to shoot first like MoMo. And Barcello, when running point, gets everyone involved. I'd say Barcello has a better shot from distance, but is not going to destroy someone in the open court.

Depending on who's here, Barcello likely wouldn't play much in 2017-18. We'll have a senior PJC and (hopefully) a sophomore KS.

Maybe if PJC keeps growing an inch per year.

I really don't see PJC hanging around to be 3rd on the depth chart.

not impressed

97cats wrote:not impressed

Really? Willing to elaborate?

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:not impressed

Really? Willing to elaborate?

with a lot right now.

im just generally frustrated with the program for some reason

PG stinks again
PG recruit isnt a PG
home schedule sucks donkey dick

theres more i guess but maybe i just need a long shower?

Showers wont change the PG issues we have had and are having, sadly.

If it did it'd be showers for everyone.

97cats wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:not impressed

Really? Willing to elaborate?

with a lot right now.

im just generally frustrated with the program for some reason

PG stinks again
PG recruit isnt a PG
home schedule sucks donkey dick

theres more i guess but maybe i just need a long shower?

Wow. 97 emerges from being lo-pro and throws some shade.

PG stinks again? I thought KS was an elite level PG.

Barcello isn't a PG? This contradicts pretty much everyone who's chimed in on this tread.

Home schedule is on Miller, so...

The Barcelo type point guard is probably just what these Miller teams need.

The problem is third year junior Barcelo (which is probably really what you need running your team) isn't here right now and theoretically won't be next year or the year after.

97cats wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:not impressed

Really? Willing to elaborate?

with a lot right now.

im just generally frustrated with the program for some reason

PG stinks again
PG recruit isnt a PG
home schedule sucks donkey dick

theres more i guess but maybe i just need a long shower?

There's a lot to be down about but so much would be better and brighter if not for the single example of the poor judgement to build around PJC and his people's demands for protection as the pg in-waiting.

97cats wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:not impressed

Really? Willing to elaborate?

with a lot right now.

im just generally frustrated with the program for some reason

PG stinks again
PG recruit isnt a PG
home schedule sucks donkey dick

theres more i guess but maybe i just need a long shower?

I respect your opinion a lot, but am not sure I 100% agree.

KA was NJCAA player of the year. Kobi is a top 20 McD's AA. They may not 100% be the answer, but it's not like they're some random transfer from Duquesne that we have to worry is only a mid-major talent and not Arizona good. We'll see how the year develops. I would agree that the PJC experiment may/should be mostly over.

Barcello, I've not seen enough of his game action to know what I think. I doubt he is an immediate contributor at PG. How he evolves over time...those sort of players can become solid upperclassmen who lead to rings. They can also be upperclassmen who are more at home in the MWC.

The home OOC schedule is a pretty fat turd. It's frustrating for Tucson fans that every away/neutral game is more attractive than every home game.

Beachcat97 wrote:

97cats wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:not impressed

Really? Willing to elaborate?

with a lot right now.

im just generally frustrated with the program for some reason

PG stinks again
PG recruit isnt a PG
home schedule sucks donkey dick

theres more i guess but maybe i just need a long shower?

Wow. 97 emerges from being lo-pro and throws some shade.

PG stinks again? I thought KS was an elite level PG.

Barcello isn't a PG? This contradicts pretty much everyone who's chimed in on this tread.

Home schedule is on Miller, so...

KS isn't an elite level PG. He's a very athletic scorer who can handle the ball. He's going to need work in many facets, but the ceiling is high.

People have compared Barcello to Momo and you say that contradicts pretty much every one? He's a combo guard truthfully, but he's a shoot first point guard who makes good decisions if you play him at the 1, which holds value as well.

SCCats wrote:The Barcelo type point guard is probably just what these Miller teams need.

Miller's two best seasons at Arizona came under a point guard that is not of the Barcello type at all, so I'm going to have to disagree with that sentiment.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
I respect your opinion a lot, but am not sure I 100% agree.

KA was NJCAA player of the year. Kobi is a top 20 McD's AA. They may not 100% be the answer, but it's not like they're some random transfer from Duquesne that we have to worry is only a mid-major talent and not Arizona good. We'll see how the year develops.

Very interesting take. So you're bragging on a guy who was a JUCO Player of the year and a freshman whom according to scout is a 4 star over a guy who proved at the Division I level for two years, whether it be at Duquesne or not, that he was an excellent player? So you value HS accolades and JUCO accolades over actual Division I success?

Spaceman Spiff wrote: The home OOC schedule is a pretty fat turd. It's frustrating for Tucson fans that every away/neutral game is more attractive than every home game.

Doubt you'll find anyone who disagrees with this take. At least we do have good OOC games this year though.

I wouldn't underestimate Barcello. Nope. Four things:

First, he's not fast, but he's clearly not slow.

Second, a positive skill issue is his quicks. Lemme call them funky-quicks in his case because he often looks tippy when in fact he really isn't off balance. Moving in the front court with the ball, Dude throws one, two, sometimes three funky hesis. Often he steps back very quickly and shoots or passés very quicky. His defender is rarely in on the deal and normally can't even start a forward step.

If the dude is open and receives a pass, he takes the ball in an already set crouch and brings the ball up immediately. The same receiving crouch Coach O taught Salim who came to us notoriously catching in a standing position, then crouching, and finally bringing the ball up from too low on his body.

Third, the dude is really bright and you see it in his on-ball mechanics and passing. He appears to have sweet court vision.

Last, Barcello chose Miller and the Cats because he has a hunger to eventually end up in the League. Great sign. He could've taken the Stanford offer and not risked being over-recruited or beat out inn an elite program

Okay, I'll shut up and agree we've only seen Barcello play in a compilation of HS excerpts. So, we'll welcome some looks at his play this year and with the summer Soldiers and make informed observations.

Bear Down!

none of the four players below are Final Four caliber PG's, IMNSHO:

Allen is not a true PG, decent combo but wears down and is not comfortable with rudimentary PG skills like advancing the ball past the timeline

Simmons is not a true PG, loads of potential as a hybrid but young and VERY raw -- certainly not a 35+min(s) per game guy this season

Cartwright has been awful, i have no idea what the hell anybody was thinking when they watched him play in high school -- hes proven in college over and over that hes nowhere near ELITE

Barcello is not a PG and frankly underwhelming -- im shocked AZ took him and the TJ comparison(s) are beyond ridiculous....a less bouncy Gabe York is more like it.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
I respect your opinion a lot, but am not sure I 100% agree.

KA was NJCAA player of the year. Kobi is a top 20 McD's AA. They may not 100% be the answer, but it's not like they're some random transfer from Duquesne that we have to worry is only a mid-major talent and not Arizona good. We'll see how the year develops.

Very interesting take. So you're bragging on a guy who was a JUCO Player of the year and a freshman whom according to scout is a 4 star over a guy who proved at the Division I level for two years, whether it be at Duquesne or not, that he was an excellent player? So you value HS accolades and JUCO accolades over actual Division I success?

Spaceman Spiff wrote: The home OOC schedule is a pretty fat turd. It's frustrating for Tucson fans that every away/neutral game is more attractive than every home game.

Doubt you'll find anyone who disagrees with this take. At least we do have good OOC games this year though.

I'm not claiming either of our current options are better than TJ. I was saying there was a time when TJ was no sure thing and lacked the pedigree of our current options. TJ turned out very well, but at the time he came to Arizona, I could see a fan posting:

All we have is a stopgap SG with Lyons and some guy who might never be ready for the big stage.

Again, not saying I'm 100% confident, but I can't get unhappy with the program when our top PG options are NJCAA POY and a Micky D's AA. Yes, you can do better, but it isn't like I can fault Miller for only having that.

Ouch

All aboard the Brandon Williams in 18 train I guess lol

97cats wrote:none of the four players below are Final Four caliber PG's, IMNSHO:

Allen is not a true PG, decent combo but wears down and is not comfortable with rudimentary PG skills like advancing the ball past the timeline

Simmons is not a true PG, loads of potential as a hybrid but young and VERY raw -- certainly not a 35+min(s) per game guy this season

Cartwright has been awful, i have no idea what the hell anybody was thinking when they watched him play in high school -- hes proven in college over and over that hes nowhere near ELITE

Barcello is not a PG and frankly underwhelming -- im shocked AZ took him and truth the TJ comparison is beyond ridiculous; a less bouncy Gabe York is more like it.

I don't disagree with you on PJC and I'll defer on Barcello because I only know a few mixtapes.

On Allen and Simmons, I don't necessarily disagree about them not being true PG's, but I do disagree about the importance of a true PG. The general consensus is that everyone's chasing KY and Duke, and I don't think De'Aaron Fox or Frank Jackson is any closer to a true PG than Allen or Simmons.

As I've posted before, you can run a Steve Nash offense or decentralize it with multiple distributors. I think Dusan and Lauri are better situated as big guys to distribute than our options last year. I like Gabe, but Ray is better by default on that question.

Our PG situation is not an answered question at this point, but I firmly believe you can be a Final Four team without a Final Four caliber true PG.

97, how about a more straight-up assessment of this year's team. We've heard your thoughts on the PG situation, and it sounds like we're pretty f***ed. How about where you think we'll finish in the Pac?

Beachcat97 wrote:97, how about a more straight-up assessment of this year's team. We've heard your thoughts on the PG situation, and it sounds like we're pretty f***ed. How about where you think we'll finish in the Pac?

Behind UCLA

Beachcat97 wrote:97, how about a more straight-up assessment of this year's team. We've heard your thoughts on the PG situation, and it sounds like we're pretty f***ed. How about where you think we'll finish in the Pac?

Let the man take a shower, will ya?

Longhorned wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:97, how about a more straight-up assessment of this year's team. We've heard your thoughts on the PG situation, and it sounds like we're pretty f***ed. How about where you think we'll finish in the Pac?

Behind UCLA

Their roster looks better. First time in a while.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:97, how about a more straight-up assessment of this year's team. We've heard your thoughts on the PG situation, and it sounds like we're pretty f***ed. How about where you think we'll finish in the Pac?

Behind UCLA

Their roster looks better. First time in a while.

Yep, Mr. Bug has the last laugh over you.

This defeatist stuff is killing me. We're starting 5 star rated players at 4 of 5 positions and apparently suck in comparison to UCLA.

97cats wrote:none of the four players below are Final Four caliber PG's, IMNSHO:

Allen is not a true PG, decent combo but wears down and is not comfortable with rudimentary PG skills like advancing the ball past the timeline

Simmons is not a true PG, loads of potential as a hybrid but young and VERY raw -- certainly not a 35+min(s) per game guy this season

Cartwright has been awful, i have no idea what the hell anybody was thinking when they watched him play in high school -- hes proven in college over and over that hes nowhere near ELITE

Barcello is not a PG and frankly underwhelming -- im shocked AZ took him and the TJ comparison(s) are beyond ridiculous....a less bouncy Gabe York is more like it.

In other words, Arizona is a sinking ship.

I've been focusing on football, but I'll chime in here....

I'll hold judgement on our individual players until I see them balling in the context that Miller has planned. Quite honestly I think it's too early to judge individual talent without assessing off season growth and how they will be implemented by the coach.

Call me a homer...

AZ is going to start the season ranked in the top 15 (and most likely ahead of UCLA), so either the polls are entirely based on last season's performance and/or prestige of the program, or the media knows something we don't.

When 97 is already ripping the program and lowering expectations, it's impossible not to have concerns.