Bear Down Wildcats

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:32 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:55 am
RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:57 pm Honestly our drop coverage was pretty good vs Chandler

Made him take deep 2s or floaters
I sort of go back and forth on this. It worked, but I wonder how much was D and how much was Chandler missing makeable shots.

This is just memory, but I remember him regularly getting 13-17 foot jumpers without a heavy contest. He made basically zero of them, but they are makeable shots.

Isn't that the point of drop coverage?

Forcing players to take these gettable bad shots that aren't as easy as layups and don't kill you like 3s.

You basically have to be CP3 to kill a team repeatedly, like he did these past playoff run. Other than that, it's a bad shot most of the time.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:44 am**

RawleArenas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:14 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:55 am
RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:57 pm Honestly our drop coverage was pretty good vs Chandler

Made him take deep 2s or floaters
I sort of go back and forth on this. It worked, but I wonder how much was D and how much was Chandler missing makeable shots.

This is just memory, but I remember him regularly getting 13-17 foot jumpers without a heavy contest. He made basically zero of them, but they are makeable shots.

It's something I said earlier, as much as we missed a ton of opportunities, Tenn missed a lot too. I'm sure if you asked them, they'd feel like they shot poorly and could have closed it out earlier if they made a few more makeable shots.

Cleaning up mental mistakes is a big thing, but an underrated part of last night was getting outrebounded by 3. Between our size and the fact we gave away a ton of possessions (i.e., likely defensive rebounds for UT) that's not what you want to see.

It's early and the biggest thing is how we respond to this. It's the first time we've looked vulnerable, and whether we build from it or regress matters so much more than last night.
I'm sorry, I totally disagree. You can't have your top bigs for only 19 and 13 minutes in the game respectively and expect to be a force on the glass. It ain't happening. Part of the function of good defense (we're top 10 too) is to create a pressure atmosphere where it disrupts the timing of your shots. I think Chandler fell into this (he is a freshman after all) considering this is his first genuinely marquee game. We had 3 impact players foul out, two others players with 4, while Tennessee had one player 4 with Fulkerson only having 2.

While I agree with Lloyd that you don't blame refs, especially when you had your chances. Pretty much every non biased eye on that game felt the zebras whistles were on fire.

And yes, I think Illinois is better than Tennessee, especially when they get Andre Curbelo back. Which is why I was puzzled Tubelis played so poorly being that he has played in a hostile environment before. Anyways, neutral site game with Tennessee and all that smugness would be wiped away by halftime.

I think we disagree. Even after last night's game, we're 11th nationally in rebound %. Tennessee is 62nd. They attempted 9 more field goals and 9 more ft's than we did and missed at least 3 reboundable ft's from my memory.

That's about 12-14 more chances for a Drb and we got beat by 3 against an ok rebounding team when we entered the game top 10 nationally. It has to be a disappointment.

Look, the reffing wasn't great, but we compounded it by making mental errors, including some stupid fouls. Part of the reason Tubelis only played 13 minutes wasn't biased reffing, but making bad decisions. His 4th sticks out to me. He committed an unforced turnover, then picked up his 4th foul 70 feet from the rim trying to get the ball back. When you're in foul trouble, you can't pick up cheap fouls like that.

I disagree on pressure. Drop coverage decreases ball pressure on the pick and roll and that's consistent with what I saw with Chandler. Off the high pick and roll, Koloko or Ballo would drop into the lane and give him a good 5 feet almost every time. It did fine because he wasn't hitting, byt we weren't pressuring the ball off the p&r.

Example is at 15 minutes in the linked video. You see off the high p&r, Koloko is at the charge line under the rim. Chandler turns down a floater, but Fulkerson exploits Koloko dropping by getting into his chest. Basically no ball pressure.

https://youtu.be/J9eqrxdbDrA

Fulkerson took advantage of that more than Chandler did. Chandler was missing, but Fulkerson used the drop and lack of ball pressure to get into 10 feet where he did his damage.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:01 am**

I don't know what a Drb is, you'll have to explain that. Our dismal first half performance was certainly a factor, but you can't deny the disruption of the game flow and the absence of our impact bigs (due to phantom or questionable fouls) as being a difference maker in rebounding. Of course its disappointing, but not because we were dominant before, but because we weren't available to impact the glass.

Also, all of Chandler's shot didn't come from P&R action. I don't have a shot breakdown, but a lot of his decision making was forced, including the play where he took four steps towards the end that resulted in an and 1 for Fulkerson. But you're completely correct in that the mental errors erased any chance that we could take a lead and battle to maintain it.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:07 am**

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:32 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:55 am
RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:57 pm Honestly our drop coverage was pretty good vs Chandler

Made him take deep 2s or floaters
I sort of go back and forth on this. It worked, but I wonder how much was D and how much was Chandler missing makeable shots.

This is just memory, but I remember him regularly getting 13-17 foot jumpers without a heavy contest. He made basically zero of them, but they are makeable shots.

Isn't that the point of drop coverage?

Forcing players to take these gettable bad shots that aren't as easy as layups and don't kill you like 3s.

You basically have to be CP3 to kill a team repeatedly, like he did these past playoff run. Other than that, it's a bad shot most of the time.

I'm not sure on bad shot. It's highly dependent on who you play.

Drop works best when you face a team with ballhandlers who aren't particularly dynamic scorers. By it's nature, drop gives the opposing ballhandler room to operate off the screen. It's then on them to create makeable opportunities.

I don't have advanced access, but Chandler entered the game shooting 42-81 inside the arc, which leads you to believe he can make those sorts of shots. Specifically, he was 17-31 inside the arc vs Nova, Colorado and UNC, which again implies he can make those shots. Interestingly, those 3 games include 1-7 vs Nova, then ok vs UNC and murdering Colorado.

If you look at my response to RawleArenas, Fulkerson actually exploited drop more by repeatedly using the room to get into the chest of our bigs from about 10 feet, where he converted the majority of his points.

I mean, every D gives something. I'm not convinced the type of shots Chandler got were bad, but he wasn't making them. I may be a dinosaur, but a relatively uncontested 15-17 foot pullup isn't an extremely difficult shot.

I'm not saying it's a terrible scheme or we should abandon it, just that it gave up a certain type of shot and it helped very much Chandler missed a high % of them, which his history suggests is not the norm.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:09 am**

I’ve never seen more national guys calling out poor officiating in my life. We smash Tennessee by double digits any other game. Not worried in the slightest about anything that occurred last night outside of the first 4-5 minutes. Those slow starts gotta be fixed though.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am**

Ha UA ever lost a game that UA fan doesn't blame the officials for?

Tennessee outplayed us.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:24 am**

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Ha UA ever lost a game that UA fan doesn't blame the officials for?

Tennessee outplayed us.

Tennessee made as many free throws as Arizona attempted and Arizona turned the ball over 17 times while losing by four. They shot better from 2 and 3 than Tennessee, too.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:26 am**

The biggest learning lesson from this game is Koloko and AT need to get engaged early in the game. Teams are going to make those two work their assess off to get into a halfcourt offense.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:30 am**

RawleArenas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:01 am I don't know what a Drb is, you'll have to explain that. Our dismal first half performance was certainly a factor, but you can't deny the disruption of the game flow and the absence of our impact bigs (due to phantom or questionable fouls) as being a difference maker in rebounding. Of course its disappointing, but not because we were dominant before, but because we weren't available to impact the glass.

Also, all of Chandler's shot didn't come from P&R action. I don't have a shot breakdown, but a lot of his decision making was forced, including the play where he took four steps towards the end that resulted in an and 1 for Fulkerson. But you're completely correct in that the mental errors erased any chance that we could take a lead and battle to maintain it.

Drb is just defensive rebounds. I'm just saying that the more opportunities you have for defensive rebounds, the better your overall #'s should be by definition, because Drb's should skew heavily towards the D regardless of how good at rebounding a team is.

They missed 41 shots to our 32, so we had 9 more Drb chances, which should pump up our overall chances to get boards. It doesn't help to have bigs on the bench, but getting outshot like that, losing the battle by 3 has to be a disappointment. Ft's add to the margin, but not sure how much because you can't go by raw numbers.

I don't disagree the reffing sucked. I still think that you have to hammer home to the bigs that this means even more they cannot pick up useless fouls like Tubelis's 4th. I'd have to rewatch to give a more accurate count, but when you're getting tough breaks in general, we compounded it with a few unnecessary fouls. In rewatching a bit for the YouTube link I gave you, I counted two fouls on Koloko where the offensive player wasn't in scoring position.

We got a couple phantom fouls and the refs ignored a few fouls from TN. That's very true, I just mean they wouldn't have been as devastating for Koloko and Tubelis if it wasn't for a few unnecessary fouls they both could have avoided.

True on Chandler. As I said to Rondae, Fulkerson actually hurt us more by exploiting Koloko, Ballo and Tubelis dropping by using the space to get into his comfort zone.

I don't mean to suggest we should abandon drop, particularly that we should have last night. It worked because Chandler was off. Just more that we may (in other games) need a counter when a player makes the shots that are there.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:32 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:07 am [quote
I'm not sure on bad shot. It's highly dependent on who you play.

Drop works best when you face a team with ballhandlers who aren't particularly dynamic scorers. By it's nature, drop gives the opposing ballhandler room to operate off the screen. It's then on them to create makeable opportunities.

I don't have advanced access, but Chandler entered the game shooting 42-81 inside the arc, which leads you to believe he can make those sorts of shots. Specifically, he was 17-31 inside the arc vs Nova, Colorado and UNC, which again implies he can make those shots. Interestingly, those 3 games include 1-7 vs Nova, then ok vs UNC and murdering Colorado.

If you look at my response to RawleArenas, Fulkerson actually exploited drop more by repeatedly using the room to get into the chest of our bigs from about 10 feet, where he converted the majority of his points.

I mean, every D gives something. I'm not convinced the type of shots Chandler got were bad, but he wasn't making them. I may be a dinosaur, but a relatively uncontested 15-17 foot pullup isn't an extremely difficult shot.

I'm not saying it's a terrible scheme or we should abandon it, just that it gave up a certain type of shot and it helped very much Chandler missed a high % of them, which his history suggests is not the norm.

There's a reason nba uses it heavily, the mid range game is dead.

It's even deader in college.

Teams are okay with you killing them there. It's a tougher shot that's not inside and not worth 3 points. If Chandler killed us from there, I'd be completely fine with it.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 am**

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Tennessee outplayed us.

Let's see.......
Shooting %: Arizona 44.8 - 38.8
3 pointer %: Arizona 33.3 - 29.2
Assists: Arizona 16 -12
Rebounds: Tennessee 40 - 38
Offensive Rebounds: Tennessee 16 -10

Free Throws: Tennessee 18/27 - 12/18

They didn't outplay us. Arizona got screwed with their pants on.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:36 am**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:09 am I’ve never seen more national guys calling out poor officiating in my life. We smash Tennessee by double digits any other game. Not worried in the slightest about anything that occurred last night outside of the first 4-5 minutes. Those slow starts gotta be fixed though.

I mean we could've won if Kerr didn't take a heat check 3 down 2, at basically the start of the possession.

There's some low bball iq problems that need to be sorted with a bunch of players.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am**

These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can play poor and also get screwed by the officiating.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:39 am**

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Ha UA ever lost a game that UA fan doesn't blame the officials for?

Tennessee outplayed us.

Yes.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:43 am**

I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about that Kerr 3.

He hits it and you’re praising him.

He takes that same 3 several times a game. That’s a shot he’s comfortable with and confident in. Tommy feels the same or he would not allow him to shoot it.

There are several plays in that game we could point to. I don’t think it’s fair for everyone to basically place blame on 1 guy.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:46 am**

I get the drop coverage, and it was ok most of the night, but I would have liked to see more switching as well. Tennessee cant shoot, and keeping a guy in everyone's face might have made things easier for our bigs to not get chipped away by Fulkerson walking right down to the block and drawing foul after foul.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:51 am**

97cats wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:29 am
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:10 am
97cats wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:15 pm Arizona will soon be approaching a stretch without a home game for almost a month while playing four true road games in that same period against Tennessee, UCLA, USC, and ASU.

the xmas/New Years road tour toward a #1 Seed
Predicted a few weeks back that our only 3 game losing streak of the season would begin tonight. Sticking by that.

Even if we do drop the next two, we’ll still be in the mix for a 2 seed if we protect home court and win the road games we’re supposed to.
tough start at Tennessee for Arizona - seemed as tho they had sea legs a bit for the first time, and heck, its that time of year. arrived in Knoxville late the night before, its a learning lesson for coaches and players. i tend to forget there is a lot of firsts for Lloyd as well in admits of all the lopsided winning.

look for Arizona to bounce back in LA (if the games are even played)

The whole first half I was thinking "this seems like a team that pulled a Tomey @ PSU" ... after the Illinois adventure, why the fuck did we not learn a lesson and get there Monday night or early (ehh, midday more feasible) Tuesday?

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:51 am**

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:39 am
Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Ha UA ever lost a game that UA fan doesn't blame the officials for?

Tennessee outplayed us.
Yes.

I disagree on Tennessee outplaying us. We scored 50+ in the second half and came all the way back to tie it.

Now imagine if we didn’t have foul trouble resulting from a bunch of plays that should have been no-calls…

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:54 am**

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can play poor and also get screwed by the officiating.

This distinction is meaningless.

They made some bad bball iq plays repeatedly when it got close and Tennessee would pull away again.

Down 62-60, Arizona went to the FT two separate times and missed the front end of a 1/1 FTs. Terry threw a pass into the 5th row down 2 or tied (I can't remember)

Etc etc etc

Cats could've won if they played smart, bad refs aside, it wouldn't have mattered in the end. This team is tough and resilient but they were given so many chances to come back and they would play dumb anytime it got within 4-6 pts.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:55 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:30 am
RawleArenas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:01 am I don't know what a Drb is, you'll have to explain that. Our dismal first half performance was certainly a factor, but you can't deny the disruption of the game flow and the absence of our impact bigs (due to phantom or questionable fouls) as being a difference maker in rebounding. Of course its disappointing, but not because we were dominant before, but because we weren't available to impact the glass.

Also, all of Chandler's shot didn't come from P&R action. I don't have a shot breakdown, but a lot of his decision making was forced, including the play where he took four steps towards the end that resulted in an and 1 for Fulkerson. But you're completely correct in that the mental errors erased any chance that we could take a lead and battle to maintain it.
Drb is just defensive rebounds. I'm just saying that the more opportunities you have for defensive rebounds, the better your overall #'s should be by definition, because Drb's should skew heavily towards the D regardless of how good at rebounding a team is.

They missed 41 shots to our 32, so we had 9 more Drb chances, which should pump up our overall chances to get boards. It doesn't help to have bigs on the bench, but getting outshot like that, losing the battle by 3 has to be a disappointment. Ft's add to the margin, but not sure how much because you can't go by raw numbers.

I don't disagree the reffing sucked. I still think that you have to hammer home to the bigs that this means even more they cannot pick up useless fouls like Tubelis's 4th. I'd have to rewatch to give a more accurate count, but when you're getting tough breaks in general, we compounded it with a few unnecessary fouls. In rewatching a bit for the YouTube link I gave you, I counted two fouls on Koloko where the offensive player wasn't in scoring position.

We got a couple phantom fouls and the refs ignored a few fouls from TN. That's very true, I just mean they wouldn't have been as devastating for Koloko and Tubelis if it wasn't for a few unnecessary fouls they both could have avoided.

True on Chandler. As I said to Rondae, Fulkerson actually hurt us more by exploiting Koloko, Ballo and Tubelis dropping by using the space to get into his comfort zone.

I don't mean to suggest we should abandon drop, particularly that we should have last night. It worked because Chandler was off. Just more that we may (in other games) need a counter when a player makes the shots that are there.

I'm beginning to see your point, those extra rebounding opportunities are lost possessions that could have tipped the game in the other direction. Upon reflection, there are three things that stood out to me. First, you can't battle back in the first half and have a collapse like we did. Second, having 17 turnovers would sink most teams.
And finally, on a neutral site with neutral refs, the UofA could play an absolutely horrible game against a ranked team and STILL win.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:55 am**

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:32 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:07 am [quote
I'm not sure on bad shot. It's highly dependent on who you play.

Drop works best when you face a team with ballhandlers who aren't particularly dynamic scorers. By it's nature, drop gives the opposing ballhandler room to operate off the screen. It's then on them to create makeable opportunities.

I don't have advanced access, but Chandler entered the game shooting 42-81 inside the arc, which leads you to believe he can make those sorts of shots. Specifically, he was 17-31 inside the arc vs Nova, Colorado and UNC, which again implies he can make those shots. Interestingly, those 3 games include 1-7 vs Nova, then ok vs UNC and murdering Colorado.

If you look at my response to RawleArenas, Fulkerson actually exploited drop more by repeatedly using the room to get into the chest of our bigs from about 10 feet, where he converted the majority of his points.

I mean, every D gives something. I'm not convinced the type of shots Chandler got were bad, but he wasn't making them. I may be a dinosaur, but a relatively uncontested 15-17 foot pullup isn't an extremely difficult shot.

I'm not saying it's a terrible scheme or we should abandon it, just that it gave up a certain type of shot and it helped very much Chandler missed a high % of them, which his history suggests is not the norm.
There's a reason nba uses it heavily, the mid range game is dead.

It's even deader in college.

Teams are okay with you killing them there. It's a tougher shot that's not inside and not worth 3 points. If Chandler killed us from there, I'd be completely fine with it.

That's why I say I may be a dinosaur, but I have the following opinion.

The NBA uses that analytics approach because they have players with significantly higher skill level. To be more dependent on the 3, you have to have a high skill level. You saw a bunch of teams emulate the Warriors with less success because they don't have Steph, Klay and KD to make the shots.

For instance, I'd consider the 16-17 Warriors the GOAT. Of the top ten teams in 3 point attempts per game, 5 made the NBA playoffs, 5 didn't.

I double down on this in college. You don't have guys with as fully developed skill sets, so general analytics matter less and the analytics of individual players you have matter more.

That's why I comment about Chandler being relatively efficient inside the arc at a decent volume. His game, for better or worse, isn't one that general analytics would heavily buy on, but he's also their best player.

I think UT would be fine with the shots they got, and just think they missed makeable ones. We'd be fine with the shots they got because they missed them. If they'd hit them, then you think we need a counter. It's ultimately for another game, though, when a team makes those shots.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:58 am**

I hate saying this because I was a big supporter of our previous coach, but I feel more confident in this team adapting and not getting the yips than many of the other Wildcat teams, including Lute's.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:03 am**

TucsonClip wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:46 am I get the drop coverage, and it was ok most of the night, but I would have liked to see more switching as well. Tennessee cant shoot, and keeping a guy in everyone's face might have made things easier for our bigs to not get chipped away by Fulkerson walking right down to the block and drawing foul after foul.

Agreed. Drop gave their perimeter players chances, but they weren't converting. Fulkerson converted much better by using drop to get downhill and either draw contact, Eurostep or spin to a 10 foot jump hook.

Defense wasn't the big issue. Mental mistakes, turnovers and missed chances on the glass cost us.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:04 am**

RawleArenas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:58 am I hate saying this because I was a big supporter of our previous coach, but I feel more confident in this team adapting and not getting the yips than many of the other Wildcat teams, including Lute's.

Mathurin, Terry, Koloko...not even a drop of yips in them dudes.

I was surprised by Tubelis' performance yesterday. If he's anywhere near his normal self, we beat Tennessee by 10 points.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:09 am**

RawleArenas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:55 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:30 am
RawleArenas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:01 am I don't know what a Drb is, you'll have to explain that. Our dismal first half performance was certainly a factor, but you can't deny the disruption of the game flow and the absence of our impact bigs (due to phantom or questionable fouls) as being a difference maker in rebounding. Of course its disappointing, but not because we were dominant before, but because we weren't available to impact the glass.

Also, all of Chandler's shot didn't come from P&R action. I don't have a shot breakdown, but a lot of his decision making was forced, including the play where he took four steps towards the end that resulted in an and 1 for Fulkerson. But you're completely correct in that the mental errors erased any chance that we could take a lead and battle to maintain it.
Drb is just defensive rebounds. I'm just saying that the more opportunities you have for defensive rebounds, the better your overall #'s should be by definition, because Drb's should skew heavily towards the D regardless of how good at rebounding a team is.

They missed 41 shots to our 32, so we had 9 more Drb chances, which should pump up our overall chances to get boards. It doesn't help to have bigs on the bench, but getting outshot like that, losing the battle by 3 has to be a disappointment. Ft's add to the margin, but not sure how much because you can't go by raw numbers.

I don't disagree the reffing sucked. I still think that you have to hammer home to the bigs that this means even more they cannot pick up useless fouls like Tubelis's 4th. I'd have to rewatch to give a more accurate count, but when you're getting tough breaks in general, we compounded it with a few unnecessary fouls. In rewatching a bit for the YouTube link I gave you, I counted two fouls on Koloko where the offensive player wasn't in scoring position.

We got a couple phantom fouls and the refs ignored a few fouls from TN. That's very true, I just mean they wouldn't have been as devastating for Koloko and Tubelis if it wasn't for a few unnecessary fouls they both could have avoided.

True on Chandler. As I said to Rondae, Fulkerson actually hurt us more by exploiting Koloko, Ballo and Tubelis dropping by using the space to get into his comfort zone.

I don't mean to suggest we should abandon drop, particularly that we should have last night. It worked because Chandler was off. Just more that we may (in other games) need a counter when a player makes the shots that are there.
I'm beginning to see your point, those extra rebounding opportunities are lost possessions that could have tipped the game in the other direction. Upon reflection, there are three things that stood out to me. First, you can't battle back in the first half and have a collapse like we did. Second, having 17 turnovers would sink most teams.
And finally, on a neutral site with neutral refs, the UofA could play an absolutely horrible game against a ranked team and STILL win.

That's basically it. You never want to lose by 3 on the glass when you come in as a better rebounding team and have more than double digit additional opportunities on the defensive glass.

It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but it's a missed opportunity in a game where relatively small opportunities made the difference. That has to be a bit of a disappointment.

The game reminded me of our road loss at Colorado last year where they got out 21-2 on us. Both times we fought back to even, but there's just a lot less margin for error when you dig a hole.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:12 am**

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can play poor and also get screwed by the officiating.

This. The reffing wasn't good, but neither was our play. We could have overcome the refs if our play didn't leave so much on the table. We also could have left something on the table if the refs were better.

We just couldn't have both.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:13 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 am
Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Tennessee outplayed us.
Let's see.......
Shooting %: Arizona 44.8 - 38.8
3 pointer %: Arizona 33.3 - 29.2
Assists: Arizona 16 -12
Rebounds: Tennessee 40 - 38
Offensive Rebounds: Tennessee 16 -10

Free Throws: Tennessee 18/27 - 12/18

They didn't outplay us. Arizona got screwed with their pants on.

Pointedly left out turnover ratio.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 am**

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:13 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 am
Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Tennessee outplayed us.
Let's see.......
Shooting %: Arizona 44.8 - 38.8
3 pointer %: Arizona 33.3 - 29.2
Assists: Arizona 16 -12
Rebounds: Tennessee 40 - 38
Offensive Rebounds: Tennessee 16 -10

Free Throws: Tennessee 18/27 - 12/18

They didn't outplay us. Arizona got screwed with their pants on.
Pointedly left out turnover ratio.

Turnovers: Tennessee 17-13

Still doesn't support your statement.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 am
Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:13 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 am
Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Tennessee outplayed us.
Let's see.......
Shooting %: Arizona 44.8 - 38.8
3 pointer %: Arizona 33.3 - 29.2
Assists: Arizona 16 -12
Rebounds: Tennessee 40 - 38
Offensive Rebounds: Tennessee 16 -10

Free Throws: Tennessee 18/27 - 12/18

They didn't outplay us. Arizona got screwed with their pants on.
Pointedly left out turnover ratio.
Turnovers: Tennessee 17-13

Still doesn't support your statement.

You have that backwards. We had more to's.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:30 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 am Turnovers: Tennessee 17-13

Still doesn't support your statement.
You have that backwards. We had more to's.

I stated it to show they won the turnover battle to keep it in the same format as my other posting. You know what I ment.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:33 am**

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:13 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 am
Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:12 am Tennessee outplayed us.
Let's see.......
Shooting %: Arizona 44.8 - 38.8
3 pointer %: Arizona 33.3 - 29.2
Assists: Arizona 16 -12
Rebounds: Tennessee 40 - 38
Offensive Rebounds: Tennessee 16 -10

Free Throws: Tennessee 18/27 - 12/18

They didn't outplay us. Arizona got screwed with their pants on.
Pointedly left out turnover ratio.

Arizona 16:17 - Tennessee 12:13

The turnover ratio was near identical, and ours was actually better.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:51 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:30 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 am Turnovers: Tennessee 17-13

Still doesn't support your statement.
You have that backwards. We had more to's.
I stated it to show they won the turnover battle to keep it in the same format as my other posting. You know what I ment.

I'm not sure I understand. You'd said turnovers don't support his statement Tenn outplayed us.

We had 17 turnovers to their 13 turnovers. I'd say that's an area they outplayed us. That's all I'd meant.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:51 am**

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:43 am I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about that Kerr 3.

He hits it and you’re praising him.

He takes that same 3 several times a game. That’s a shot he’s comfortable with and confident in. Tommy feels the same or he would not allow him to shoot it.

There are several plays in that game we could point to. I don’t think it’s fair for everyone to basically place blame on 1 guy.

I have hated much of Kerr’s shot selection all season… I have cringed when he has made those heat-check threes in non-critical situations BECAUSE it reinforces what I think is BAD decision making.

If we score on that possession, then I think momentum could have swung COMPLETELY in our direction. I don’t care that he took a trey (he can make them) but THAT early in the clock with no one in position to grab the board? Sorry, not a fan whether it goes in or not.

Add in the T and I was ready to throw my phone at the TV. Those refs were bad, but I am not buying the “he was just encouraging his teammate” story fora nanosecond. It appeared to me his little passive-aggressive jabbing backfired. I know its hard to do, but keep your mouth shut and focus on the next play.

He’s a kid, a cocky kid, and shit happens… I just hope he learns from it. And the fans that went after him directly on Social Media should be castrated

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:52 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:51 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:30 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 am Turnovers: Tennessee 17-13

Still doesn't support your statement.
You have that backwards. We had more to's.
I stated it to show they won the turnover battle to keep it in the same format as my other posting. You know what I ment.
I'm not sure I understand. You'd said turnovers don't support his statement Tenn outplayed us.

We had 17 turnovers to their 13 turnovers. I'd say that's an area they outplayed us. That's all I'd meant.

His statement implied that they outplayed us the entire game and it's just not true.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:56 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:52 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:51 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:30 am
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:27 am Turnovers: Tennessee 17-13

Still doesn't support your statement.
You have that backwards. We had more to's.
I stated it to show they won the turnover battle to keep it in the same format as my other posting. You know what I ment.
I'm not sure I understand. You'd said turnovers don't support his statement Tenn outplayed us.

We had 17 turnovers to their 13 turnovers. I'd say that's an area they outplayed us. That's all I'd meant.
His statement implied that they outplayed us the entire game and it's just not true.

It was a weird game. We had two or three runs where we blitzed them for a few minutes, but almost every time, we undid it with some mistakes immediately following the run that kept us from seizing a lead.

The reffing was bad, but we didn't play particularly well either. As to whether they outplayed us, well, I didn't think they were great either.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm**

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:43 am I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about that Kerr 3.

He hits it and you’re praising him.

He takes that same 3 several times a game. That’s a shot he’s comfortable with and confident in. Tommy feels the same or he would not allow him to shoot it.

There are several plays in that game we could point to. I don’t think it’s fair for everyone to basically place blame on 1 guy.

Placing all the blame on Kerr is stupid. Tubelis and Koloko didn't play well and both made some simple errors. Terry had a big unforced TO down the stretch.

That said, I didn't like that shot. It's why analytics aren't everything. Analytics like 3's because they are more efficient for overall points, but at the time Kerr shot that, overall points matter less than converting that possession.

He takes that shot with 10 min remaining, I'm good with it. In that situation, though, a dry possession is a killer. It's not a high % shot and he took it at a point we didn't have rebounding set up.

People being a dick to him on social media are embarassments to Arizona, though. He was far from the only player who did something suboptimal and he did a number of good things. S*** happens and we were gonna lose some time. Hopefully Kerr is on to the next one. He'a a big part of what we do now and in the future.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm**

Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:07 pm**

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?

What does that have to do with my mind periodically going numb and posting on an Arizona message board while the holiday pressure builds around me?

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:09 pm**

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?

Yes, but there's a full day before I give up hope and just email online gift cards like I do every year.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:16 pm**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:09 pm
EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?
Yes, but there's a full day before I give up hope and just email online gift cards like I do every year.

Until sometime in the 1970s, on Christmas Eve men used to go bars inside department stores and sit there and get sloshed while sales women modeled clothes and brought out kids toys and samples of everything. The men would drunkenly point at whatever they wanted, and the girls wrapped everything up with for them and put it on their tab. An employee would wheel it all out to their cars, and they'd drive home swerving all over the road, usually making it. At midnight, their wives would carry it all out from the car and put it under the tree while the man and the kids slept.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:27 pm**

Longhorned wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:07 pm
EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?
What does that have to do with my mind periodically going numb and posting on an Arizona message board while the holiday pressure builds around me?

I’m questioning your word choice “periodically”

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:30 pm**

Longhorned wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:09 pm
EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?
Yes, but there's a full day before I give up hope and just email online gift cards like I do every year.
Until sometime in the 1970s, on Christmas Eve men used to go bars inside department stores and sit there and get sloshed while sales women modeled clothes and brought out kids toys and samples of everything. The men would drunkenly point at whatever they wanted, and the girls wrapped everything up with for them and put it on their tab. An employee would wheel it all out to their cars, and they'd drive home swerving all over the road, usually making it. At midnight, their wives would carry it all out from the car and put it under the tree while the man and the kids slept.

Once again I was born a generation too late although I might have become just a name carved out in a war monument.

I guess the greatest generation deserved that.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:35 pm**

I’m too drunk to shop.

And here I am.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:36 pm**

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can play poor and also get screwed by the officiating.

You can play poorly for a large stretch of the game, still play good enough to win the game, and get screwed by the officiating in the end.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:56 pm**

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?

I always wait for Mary's water to break before I head out.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:02 pm**

Longhorned wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:09 pm
EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:03 pm Don’t you guys have Christmas shopping to do?
Yes, but there's a full day before I give up hope and just email online gift cards like I do every year.
Until sometime in the 1970s, on Christmas Eve men used to go bars inside department stores and sit there and get sloshed while sales women modeled clothes and brought out kids toys and samples of everything. The men would drunkenly point at whatever they wanted, and the girls wrapped everything up with for them and put it on their tab. An employee would wheel it all out to their cars, and they'd drive home swerving all over the road, usually making it. At midnight, their wives would carry it all out from the car and put it under the tree while the man and the kids slept.

This has been replaced by guys like me getting sloshed while shopping on Amazon and drunkenly punching buttons then quickly forgetting what I ordered for everybody.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:08 pm**

Could we have actually used Aiken Jr in that situation?

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:09 pm**

I think you're all a bunch of jerks.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:26 pm**

1stNGrant Frys wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:08 pm Could we have actually used Aiken Jr in that situation?

Definitely could have used the depth and the extra 5 fouls the refs were so determined to give us.

Posted: **Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:50 pm**

First of all, that's as weak ass a tech as possible. Especially since we know the guys use other languages to swear. Fucking terrible technical.

Secondly, more importantly, him having the fire and attitude he does, and being a little cocky? Fucking hell, that's the guy we have needed more years than not. I will gladly take all the good that brings and live with the bad it does. Overall, it's so fucking huge for us

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