Bear Down Wildcats

prh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:58 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:48 am He also got some poor entry passes I noticed which didn’t help. He feels like a player that needs to get in rhythm early offensively.

But his defense and rim protection was just lights out in the second half when Kofi was not shoulder pile driving him of course.

And even wilder since leading up to the game, all they could talk about was how our west coast team wasn't prepared for big boy Big 10 basketball

And to tie that all together their coach admitted that his team just played in a big boy basketball game and said the difference at the end was that his team was too soft.

Guess the cryin Illini fans should listen to their coach.

he needs to be stronger on the rebound and catch - the thing with Koloko is that there seems to be unlimited upside, i have no idea why it feels like hes just scratching the surface but every year it does. he gets better, and better and improves so much but i still find myself saying, wow hes improved but he can be so much better. rare size and athleticism, if he stays another year in this system he could be a top 10 pick at his current improvement rate.

very naturally gifted human being - super rare

I wonder if part of the problem is him just trying so hard to NOT be foul prone. Because he knows we need him to be in the game.

hes actually very physical and plays really tough without fouling, its on the catch - he needs to be stronger on the rebound and catch.

its just reps and experience, hes still so raw yet has improved so much. incredible really.

If the Illinois game taught Koloko anything, its that he has to get back in the weight room and add mass/muscle. Another year in college would be beneficial for his career long term........guys like Cockburn are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Koloko is going to get abused nightly in the NBA if he jumps now.

dmjcat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:08 pm If the Illinois game taught Koloko anything, its that he has to get back in the weight room and add mass/muscle. Another year in college would be beneficial for his career long term........guys like Cockburn are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Koloko is going to get abused nightly in the NBA if he jumps now.

But Koloko locked him down. 5-15 shooting for Kofi and by my count Koloko blocked him 3 times and turned him over 3 others. Koloko was +18 for the game.

My dude, respectfully, what are you talking about? If a matchup against Cockburn is his NBA baseline he should probably go pro immediately.

Haha exactly. His defense was A+. He will be a plus rim protector in the league and he can guard stretch players. Get his offense down and he is a lottery pick. Another add is zi think the league wants guys our CLo more than lumbering guys like KC

C-Lo did a really good job keeping his hands up straight, along with help from Zu and everyone else around him who also defended well, arms straight up. Also when Cockburn brought the ball down there were 3 hands trying to knock it away, which they did several times. The first thing bigs are taught is never bring the ball down.

Just needs some strength to not get pushed around if other players are allowed to play like Shaq.

Also, needs to really work on his offense with a huge guy like Cockburn. Both Koloko and Ballo played scared when trying to make a bunny and both missed several. Zu wasn't scared at all going to the hole and has tremendous footwork to deal with bigs.

Haha, Cockburn had 13 points and 13 rebounds.

Koloko had 7 boards and 4 points.

"thoroughly outplaying" sounds like pure homerism if it wasn't Givony.

Merkin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:14 pm Haha, Cockburn had 13 points and 13 rebounds.

Koloko had 7 boards and 4 points.

"thoroughly outplaying" sounds like pure homerism if it wasn't Givony.

The game is played at both ends of the court.

And KC got all the home cooking from the refs. Wouldn't happen on a neutral court or McKale.

Cockburn got a good portion of his rebounds against Ballo if memory serves.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:21 pm

Merkin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:14 pm Haha, Cockburn had 13 points and 13 rebounds.

Koloko had 7 boards and 4 points.

"thoroughly outplaying" sounds like pure homerism if it wasn't Givony.

The game is played at both ends of the court.

Koloko playing better than expected, and Cockburn playing worse than expected is still not "thoroughly outplaying".

Koloko and Ballo could not score against Cockburn. He altered their shots just by being there.

Cockburn had a double double. Koloko did not.

Koloko and Ballo played scared. That's both ends of the court.

Still not sure in what world Koloko outplayed Cockburn.

Outside of the W for Arizona. When only 4 Illini players scored the entire game.

How many points his Cockburn score in the 2nd half?

I agree that Koloko didn’t dominate him but our bigs played solid

I will say that koloko was no pushover, Kofi is a big son of a gun and koloko held his own, I also thought he and whoever was doubling on KC did a fantastic job of trying to tie him up. I thought that there seemed like a lot of jump balls, and that we were the ones digging in and tying up the ball.

I also could have sworn koloko altered more than 4 shots. Was surprised to see the number that low.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:44 pm How many points his Cockburn score in the 2nd half?

I agree that Koloko didn’t dominate him but our bigs played solid

Which is why Merkin is saying Givony saying Koloko "thoroughly outplaying" Cockburn is ridiculous and sounds homerish

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:48 pm I also could have sworn koloko altered more than 4 shots. Was surprised to see the number that low.

he dropped the ball for dunks at least two times

Koloko did his job by blocking a few shots and making it difficult for Kofi to score. The main thing was he did this without excessive fouling and that was a huge benefit for the entire team. Not every debate has to end with who won or dominated the other. Kofi and Christian were both held below their average in scoring.

Illinois needed Cockburn to score 20 to win.

Arizona needed Koloko to hold Cockburn under 15 to win.

And here we are.

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:48 pm I also could have sworn koloko altered more than 4 shots. Was surprised to see the number that low.

There was one where he went up with Tubelis and they both could have been credited with a block but they must have given it to Zu.

We did outscore them 42-16 in the paint so that’s very telling. Not all our bigs but it shows Kofi’s presence was minimal. C-Lo’s 4 blocks were all huge and some of Cockburns TO’s were probably caused by looking to see where he was

Looking at the box score for RAP and not only didn’t Kofi Cockburn get any fouls called on him, Koloko apparently never got fouled.

Cryin’ Illini fans can fuck off with their ref complaints. Our 7 foot center didn’t get fouled once in over 28 minutes of playing time?? Get the fuck out of here…

Yeah, that's a telling stat, but the only way to really analyze bad officiating is to replay the calls (and non-calls) multiple times, which takes hours and is absolutely not fun. A reasonably knowledgeable person can tell during the game, but some people insist that it's just a fan's personal bias. So the only way is with detailed slo-mo replays as your "courtroom evidence", and even then, some people say "maybe the ref had a better angle". But not usually. You may also notice that, unlike the NFL, broadcasters have rarely replayed controversial calls in college hoops over the last ten years or so. Instead, you get a cutaway highlight reel shot of the last slam dunk or three pointer. Because the NCAA (at the behest of the conferences) didn't like the criticism. So, you can go to great lengths to show how many calls were wrong favoring one team, how many 50-50 calls favored the same team, which unnecessary and overly technical calls were made at critical junctures favoring the same team...and then after all that, the door is still slammed shut in your face with: "Complaint Denied." And there are often repercussions for complaining. What a country. The good news is that our playing up-tempo increases the number of plays in a game significantly. And refs can only get away with blowing the whistle so many times, so their impact is lessened somewhat by that style.

I mean we had 17 fouls and Illinois had 15. That's really the only fair barometer to use although calls/non-calls can be scrutinized to death (when they happened, did they cause points to be added/subtracted, etc...) like TheCat mentioned.

To me, there is no way anyone can claim that one team had a decisive advantage on foul calls. It's just whining after the fact.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:00 am I mean we had 17 fouls and Illinois had 15. That's really the only fair barometer to use although calls/non-calls can be scrutinized to death (when they happened, did they cause points to be added/subtracted, etc...) like TheCat mentioned.

To me, there is no way anyone can claim that one team had a decisive advantage on foul calls. It's just whining after the fact.

How many of Illinois' fouls were intentional because they were behind? Probably 3 or 4, which makes it more like 17 UA, 11 Illinois.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:06 am

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:00 am I mean we had 17 fouls and Illinois had 15. That's really the only fair barometer to use although calls/non-calls can be scrutinized to death (when they happened, did they cause points to be added/subtracted, etc...) like TheCat mentioned.

To me, there is no way anyone can claim that one team had a decisive advantage on foul calls. It's just whining after the fact.

How many of Illinois' fouls were intentional because they were behind? Probably 3 or 4, which makes it more like 17 UA, 11 Illinois.

I think it was more like 1-2 but point taken.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:21 pm

Merkin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:14 pm Haha, Cockburn had 13 points and 13 rebounds.

Koloko had 7 boards and 4 points.

"thoroughly outplaying" sounds like pure homerism if it wasn't Givony.

The game is played at both ends of the court.

Cockburn shot 5-15 and had 5 turnovers. Frankly it could have been more if the refs were calling Cockburn for dropping his shoulder.

Koloko's D was huge in making the Illini's primary offensive option wildly inefficient. That was a huge part in the win. He did it without needing doubles, letting the D stay home on shooters.

Who played better...I mean, Cockburn's role required bigger numbers, but Koloko was a rock on D and that enabled a win.

On that point, you can make a comparison of Wilt Chamberlain's stats versus Bill Russell's wins.

Illinois had 5 team fouls at the U4 timeout in the second half. I think 6 was unintentional but everything else was

I was wondering what the record was for a season and David Robinson had 207 in '85-'86 albeit against a lot of inferior teams when he was at Navy.

But still, almost 6 blocks a game. Holy shit.

.

Kessler is going to win it imo

That's fucking awesome. Well deserved C-Lo!!!

I love C-Lo

I do feel like he hasn't been as dominating over the last few games. Hope to see him bringing it tonight

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:27 am I love C-Lo

I do feel like he hasn't been as dominating over the last few games. Hope to see him bringing it tonight

All of this.

I saw someone (can’t remember who) who said he was playing a little dinged up? I had not heard that? Anyone else heard anything?

He still needs to add weight and strength to be more effective. His scoring is way down in the last couple of games. I don't think he will be a first round pick and I am going to predict he will return to Arizona to get both of those things. Now maybe that is wishful thinking but you have to be able to score in the NBA even if it is a secondary skill.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:03 pm I saw someone (can’t remember who) who said he was laying a little dinged up? I had not heard that? Anyone else heard anything?

I read that too, but can't remember where it was from. Something about his hip but might have been just speculation watching him trying to run down court.

He looked stiff and achy at Colorado. Thought it was his back.

Everyone is going to be banged up at this point in the season. Kriisa’s wrist, Pellet’s neck, etc.

I know his face got bloodied twice at Colorado but that's not what you are talking about.

He was pulled 90 seconds into the game, I assume for a foul call.

C-Lo is the new Jamelle Horne, the PAC 12 refs have a target on his back. Just needs to take the good fouls, and avoid the stupid ones.

Merkin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:18 am He was pulled 90 seconds into the game, I assume for a foul call.

C-Lo is the new Jamelle Horne, the PAC 12 refs have a target on his back. Just needs to take the good fouls, and avoid the stupid ones.

He took a clear out elbow to the chest in the first half and got called for a foul. I shit you not.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:03 pm I saw someone (can’t remember who) who said he was playing a little dinged up? I had not heard that? Anyone else heard anything?

All I've heard or seen is a tight lower back. He rubs some gel on it prior to tip off. Same with Ballo and they've been doing that since November.

It is amazing to me how soft his "fouls" are. Someone needs to make a foul compilation video and send it to our refs to study up. Imagine where Christian would be today if he didn't get pulled early nearly every game due to fouls

Anyone in the know care to predict in % what the odds are he bounces after this season?

Sure hope not….I love seeing the “Twin Towers” in action! So much fun to watch and amazing to see how much better he’s gotten this year.

Bangkok Wildcat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:32 pm Anyone in the know care to predict in % what the odds are he bounces after this season?

Sure hope not….I love seeing the “Twin Towers” in action! So much fun to watch and amazing to see how much better he’s gotten this year.

MacLean was saying he may be NPOY if he stays next season, and makes the same jump from sophomore to junior as he did from freshman to sophomore.

Koloko is so, so good. Keeps getting better. If we have him, OB and AT next season, that has to be the best frontcourt in the country.

He keeps putting up lines like that, he's going to get a first round guarantee.

What a night!!

Selfishly, I want him back next year but if he continues to blossom and we get a natty, he has my permission to go pro.

Love this team!!!!!