Re: Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:52 pm
Incredible
A co-op community for Arizona Fans
https://beardownwildcats.com/
please tell me this is on location, Al?Alieberman wrote:
You can see it in Google Maps (as of April 2019)Alieberman wrote:I stole it off the facebook group "Weird Stuff You'll only See in Tucson"
They say it's currently there at Ft Lowell / Park.
I knew this board would get a kick out of it!97cats wrote:props for the honesty - and i love the sign ...lol
We haven't been served yet, because the NCAA is still working on its case. For instance they're trying to see if there's anything serious in regards to Book's bullshit comment about paying 40k to change Rawle's transcript. Also they're looking HARD into the Mark Phelps stuff. They are seeing if they can get a lack of institutional control charge it appears and would use the two assistants doing illegal shit as their reasoning behind it. Honestly they're trying to Kansas us. If they do attempt to do so we will be in litigation hell for a LONG time. If it does get to that you can thank Dave Heeke's fucking stupid ass.BBQ wildcat wrote:Just some random questions that have been rattling around my random mind:
Any thoughts on why we haven't been served yet? Or on when we might be served?
Do you suppose the NCAA interviewed Book?
Does the NCAA interview all the UofA people who are involved? Or do they just sneak around "investigating"?
If they did interview Book, do you think he would have told them that his claims were just blowing hot air to make himself look important?
If/when the we are served with the notice, do you think the Department will just circle the wagons, ala Kansas? Or does it really depend on what the NCAA comes up with as far as violations? If the violations are minor and the resulting penalties would be minor, do we just capitulate to get this all behind us?
Again, just some random stuff that usually gets into my mind when I wake up at 3 AM.
I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
I remember thinking that immediately. It was so perplexing that he pulled the trigger so fast when there was so much more time and so much more ability to mitigate consequences.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
Yeah it was beyond fucking stupid for countless reasons and it may be the one thing that ruins the program ultimately.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I remember thinking that immediately. It was so perplexing that he pulled the trigger so fast when there was so much more time and so much more ability to mitigate consequences.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
help me out here - even if it was a "quick trigger pull", doesn't it exhibit the admin's unwillingness to tolerate even the appearance of impropriety, and therefore, reinforce the idea of "institutional control"?ChooChooCat wrote:Yeah it was beyond fucking stupid for countless reasons and it may be the one thing that ruins the program ultimately.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I remember thinking that immediately. It was so perplexing that he pulled the trigger so fast when there was so much more time and so much more ability to mitigate consequences.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
I agree with this, PC. But what I'm wondering is whether the NCAA considers "lack of institutional control" in the sense that something intolerable happened in the first place, even if it was emphatically not tolerated. I understand that would be an illogical understanding of institutional control, but it would be consist with the NCAA's illogical policy of holding a coach responsible for anything an assistant coach does.pc in NM wrote:help me out here - even if it was a "quick trigger pull", doesn't it exhibit the admin's unwillingness to tolerate even the appearance of impropriety, and therefore, reinforce the idea of "institutional control"?ChooChooCat wrote:Yeah it was beyond fucking stupid for countless reasons and it may be the one thing that ruins the program ultimately.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I remember thinking that immediately. It was so perplexing that he pulled the trigger so fast when there was so much more time and so much more ability to mitigate consequences.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
Shyte will happen (minor infractions) but charges against the coach or "lack of institutional control" are the killers. correct?
The NCAA doesn't give a damn about a school trying to do the right thing. Georgia Tech literally turned their own boosters in and got a tourney suspension.pc in NM wrote:help me out here - even if it was a "quick trigger pull", doesn't it exhibit the admin's unwillingness to tolerate even the appearance of impropriety, and therefore, reinforce the idea of "institutional control"?ChooChooCat wrote:Yeah it was beyond fucking stupid for countless reasons and it may be the one thing that ruins the program ultimately.Spaceman Spiff wrote:I remember thinking that immediately. It was so perplexing that he pulled the trigger so fast when there was so much more time and so much more ability to mitigate consequences.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
Shyte will happen (minor infractions) but charges against the coach or "lack of institutional control" are the killers. correct?
A billion times, this. They're mall cops, not cop cops. They don't have the ability to do real investigative work - they just know how to jump down your throat when you're caught on camera.Spaceman Spiff wrote:
The NCAA doesn't give a damn about a school trying to do the right thing. Georgia Tech literally turned their own boosters in and got a tourney suspension.
Heeke's actions totally reek of a confession of wrongdoing. The NCAA can easily flip that into a failure to supervise Phelps. The far better tack would have been a more cautious approach towards whether wrongdoing exists.
That's where the NCAA has a hard time, showing the actual wrongdoing. Their investigative procedures aren't exactly shaming Sherlock Holmes, which is why they love it when programs admit.
Back when that happened, I thought the whole purpose he did that was to be able to get Miller out for cause, while simultaneously sacrificing the program.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
They're also seriously outgunned by real lawyers. UNC and PSU backed them down by taking a hard line.YoDeFoe wrote:A billion times, this. They're mall cops, not cop cops. They don't have the ability to do real investigative work - they just know how to jump down your throat when you're caught on camera.Spaceman Spiff wrote:
The NCAA doesn't give a damn about a school trying to do the right thing. Georgia Tech literally turned their own boosters in and got a tourney suspension.
Heeke's actions totally reek of a confession of wrongdoing. The NCAA can easily flip that into a failure to supervise Phelps. The far better tack would have been a more cautious approach towards whether wrongdoing exists.
That's where the NCAA has a hard time, showing the actual wrongdoing. Their investigative procedures aren't exactly shaming Sherlock Holmes, which is why they love it when programs admit.
Heeke is that guy who gets pulled over and when the Officer ask him if he knows why he confesses "Is it the body in the trunk?"Spaceman Spiff wrote:They're also seriously outgunned by real lawyers. UNC and PSU backed them down by taking a hard line.YoDeFoe wrote:A billion times, this. They're mall cops, not cop cops. They don't have the ability to do real investigative work - they just know how to jump down your throat when you're caught on camera.Spaceman Spiff wrote:
The NCAA doesn't give a damn about a school trying to do the right thing. Georgia Tech literally turned their own boosters in and got a tourney suspension.
Heeke's actions totally reek of a confession of wrongdoing. The NCAA can easily flip that into a failure to supervise Phelps. The far better tack would have been a more cautious approach towards whether wrongdoing exists.
That's where the NCAA has a hard time, showing the actual wrongdoing. Their investigative procedures aren't exactly shaming Sherlock Holmes, which is why they love it when programs admit.
The NCAA thrives on programs admitting stuff and accepting sanctions. You should never lie to them or be outwardly disrespectful, but it does not pay to admit anything or give unnecessary ground.
Heeke gave a lot of ground voluntarily on Phelps.
Which is why he is absolutely powerless now when it comes to the basketball program. You play rough with your expensive toys for no reason your parents will take them away from you.prh wrote:Back when that happened, I thought the whole purpose he did that was to be able to get Miller out for cause, while simultaneously sacrificing the program.ChooChooCat wrote:I edited my original post, but Heeke jumping the gun on that entire bullshit was as good as admitting guilt in the NCAA's eyes.BBQ wildcat wrote:Thanks, Choo.
Wasn't the Phelps issure complete BS? I mean the was no ineligibility problem associated with the claim agains him.
I know what the NCAA wants to do. I don't know what they ultimately will do. Just remember they feel they don't need concrete proof to pass judgment.MC1983 wrote:And from another source close to UofA they are saying No Post Season Ban. So yeah who really knows, that is the question?
Arizona responded as if he did break a rule and pretty much admitted guilt in the eyes of the NCAA. They are a kangaroo court. That's all they need.MC1983 wrote:If Phelps didn’t break a rule than I don’t see how the NCAA can use that angle. “ We are going to punish you because you thought you might of broken a rule but you didn’t”. Hmmmm no
There’s zero chance that holds up in a court of law.ChooChooCat wrote:Arizona responded as if he did break a rule and pretty much admitted guilt in the eyes of the NCAA. They are a kangaroo court. That's all they need.MC1983 wrote:If Phelps didn’t break a rule than I don’t see how the NCAA can use that angle. “ We are going to punish you because you thought you might of broken a rule but you didn’t”. Hmmmm no
Won't find any disagreements here.JMarkJohns wrote:There’s zero chance that holds up in a court of law.ChooChooCat wrote:Arizona responded as if he did break a rule and pretty much admitted guilt in the eyes of the NCAA. They are a kangaroo court. That's all they need.MC1983 wrote:If Phelps didn’t break a rule than I don’t see how the NCAA can use that angle. “ We are going to punish you because you thought you might of broken a rule but you didn’t”. Hmmmm no
I’m looking forward to the lawsuit.
NCAA: “Foster a culture of compliance or else.
Arizona: Fires coach maybe involved in something, no wrongdoing found, player cleared by NCAA
NCAA: “You fired a coach trying while to be in compliance and therefore admit guilt, suffer.”
Zero chance a court of law allows that to stand.
Lack of institutional control.azcat49 wrote:What is it that they want to do Choo?
I mean, if the NCAA is about to drop a stinking turd on Tucson either right before or during the 2019-20 season, it's going to feel both expected and outrageous. While it feels unlikely they're going to fuck with our 2020 NCAA tourney eligibility, I wouldn't put it past them. If they want to stick it to us in the most painful way possible, they'll blast us with penalties that affect this season's team, arguably the best Miller has had for some time.ChooChooCat wrote:Lack of institutional control.azcat49 wrote:What is it that they want to do Choo?
I hope they do, I want to see a poo storm here. The ting is if they do cali, there will be at least 5 other states with these rules in place by then I bet, so they'd have to come down on them also. So in my fantasy world of 2 to 3 years of realignments, new governing bodies, competing tourneys, maybe the nit returning to predominance, boycots... Before this all settled out.Postmaster wrote:So does NCAA have the moxey to rule any CA school ineligible if their players are no longer amateurs?
There's a reason the law doesn't go into effect to 2023....Postmaster wrote:So does NCAA have the moxey to rule any CA school ineligible if their players are no longer amateurs?
The law will start having an affect next year for football recruits and year after for basketball (less if HS to NBA goes into effect) . Even now, If you are a top QB as a junior, when you step on campus you it will be 2020-2021 and most QB redshirt or don't play Freshman year so 2021-2022 then the law goes into effect. So these top QBs will be Sophomores or Juniors or any top recruit really.pc in NM wrote:There's a reason the law doesn't go into effect to 2023....Postmaster wrote:So does NCAA have the moxey to rule any CA school ineligible if their players are no longer amateurs?
I imagine college QBs can't throw parties and buy fancy dinners for their OL like NFL QBs do.jajoyce wrote: He plays on OLine and he just said its going to cause rifts in the locker room. Hypothetically, a QB gets $100,000 in endorsement deals etc, and the Oline who is giving him all kinds of protections and allowing him time to throw etc. doesn't see any money come their way. Whose to say they won't start missing a block or two.
Players are already getting paid. Why would that change when the NCAA stops stepping in and disallowing compensation in the open air? Good luck getting to the next level when you stop competing because sponsors pay some players more than you. And it's still true in the NFL, where there aren't many linemen raking in the advertising dollars QB's get. Maybe you actually agree that the NCAA shouldn't prohibit players from sharing in the opportunity to take in revenue for the labor that makes Larry Scott and all the other jackasses rich. But if not, and this is your argument in favor of amateurism, I don't understand how this concern for equal pay should prevent standouts from making money off their own images and their own accomplishments.jajoyce wrote:The law will start having an affect next year for football recruits and year after for basketball (less if HS to NBA goes into effect) . Even now, If you are a top QB as a junior, when you step on campus you it will be 2020-2021 and most QB redshirt or don't play Freshman year so 2021-2022 then the law goes into effect. So these top QBs will be Sophomores or Juniors or any top recruit really.pc in NM wrote:There's a reason the law doesn't go into effect to 2023....Postmaster wrote:So does NCAA have the moxey to rule any CA school ineligible if their players are no longer amateurs?
I was talking to a parent I work with whose kid is a top recruit/players at Notre Dame about this and they hate it. He plays on OLine and he just said its going to cause rifts in the locker room. Hypothetically, a QB gets $100,000 in endorsement deals etc, and the Oline who is giving him all kinds of protections and allowing him time to throw etc. doesn't see any money come their way. Whose to say they won't start missing a block or two. Especially if the player is not well liked.
Same goes for basketball, if you're a top player and seeing decent money coming your way by putting up 25 ppg, whose to say you will play team ball. It's going t be tough on coaches, they will want to play talent, but kids will have different motivations.
For the FBI thing or the normal year for a transfer?Jefe wrote:Quinerly has to sit out a year at Byrnabama. NCAA denied his eligibility
What intense pressure on the NCAA? Where is that pressure coming from? To my knowledge the NCAA truly answers to no one, so who could be intensely pressuring it?dmjcat wrote:If this were a One-Off situation involving only the UA I would agree Spiff. Unfortunately, its not. The horrific press we have received, coupled with the pressure on the NCAA to come down hard on the cheaters, is almost certain to get us clobbered regardless whether or not the NCAA can "prove" the allegations.Spaceman Spiff wrote:That's the wrong argument. The correct point you need to make to support your argument is a school that got MORE sanctions from the NCAA because they didn't self sanction.dmjcat wrote:And the VAST majority of schools that self sanction DON't get hit with additional sanctions. If you don't know that (or are unwilling to admit it) then you shouldn't be posting on message boards.ChooChooCat wrote:BYU self-sanctioned, the NCAA sanctioned more.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... /38459199/" target="_blank
Ole Miss self-sanctioned, the NCAA sanctioned more.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... tions-ncaa" target="_blank
Hell Arizona self-sanctioned for buying Jamelle Horne a slice of pizza and the NCAA sanctioned us more.
It's what they do. You're either willfully ignorant to this process or you're trolling dmj. I really hope it's the latter.
But that isn't really a thing. The NCAA takes self sactioning as a baseline and sees if they have to work up. If you don't confess anything and make them actually prove a case against you, 78.3% of the time they can't even do that.
Again, I will cheerfully admit I am wrong if the NCAA lets us slide, our recruiting doesn't suffer, and the press gets off our back............I just think thats highly, highly unlikely.