Bear Down Wildcats

Any update on PJC's injury?

I saw the Justin Kokoskie the trainer come out after taking PJC back to the locker room. He went over to CSM and said something. Then said something to Book which it looked like TJ overheard. TJ then signaled something to one of the student assistants in the row behind him. The signal clearly looked like he was indicating something about his tooth. He opened his mouth like he was showing his teeth to his dentist, then made a motion like he was pulling on one of his front teeth. That's just my observation. My buddy said he thought it was probably a broken nose though, so who knows. Someone has got to have better intel than what I just wrote.

Interesting trivia: Lowell Stevens has a full dental chair and instruments so if it was knocked out it is likely they would be able to take him over there and splint it back into place (assuming knocked out and not just chipped).

Thanks for the info, it's more than I had before Hopefully it was just a simple tooth and easily fixed.

PJC needs to wear a linebacker's helmet the way he penetrates and is so fearless! Hope he is ok. He is really surpassing my expectations so far this year.

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:PJC needs to wear a linebacker's helmet the way he penetrates and is so fearless! Hope he is ok. He is really surpassing my expectations so far this year.

He is so small I think he thinks he can sneak under the bigger players. Which he can.

Hopefully the PAC can go over that play with the refs and provide the correct call. Didn't Zeus get called for something similar in the OSU game?

Tucson wrote:I saw the Justin Kokoskie the trainer come out after taking PJC back to the locker room. He went over to CSM and said something. Then said something to Book which it looked like TJ overheard. TJ then signaled something to one of the student assistants in the row behind him. The signal clearly looked like he was indicating something about his tooth. He opened his mouth like he was showing his teeth to his dentist, then made a motion like he was pulling on one of his front teeth. That's just my observation. My buddy said he thought it was probably a broken nose though, so who knows.

[Pac-12 refs]Who cares? It happened on a basketball move.[/Pac-12 refs]

Fucking refs...

Did they miss the part of their "Ed Rush - Refereeing in 12 Simple Steps" seminar that they're supposed to protect the players?

I agreed with Bill Walton. Elbowing a guy in the face to clear him out of your way on the way to the basket is not a "basketball move".

Chicat wrote:Fucking refs...

Did they miss the part of their "Ed Rush - Refereeing in 12 Simple Steps" seminar that they're supposed to protect the players?

I agreed with Bill Walton. Elbowing a guy in the face to clear him out of your way on the way to the basket is not a "basketball move".

Honestly I think you have to look at "was there intent". I find it hard to say that a guy swinging his arms on a drive like that was intentionally trying to elbow his defender in the face. It was just an unfortunate incident and I hope PJC is ok.

Then again, it was Oregon. Maybe everyone in their program is dirty, not just the ones that get kicked out for rape?

Very few fouls are intentional. Maybe for a flagrant 2 you need intent, but that was definitely a flagrant 1.

I know PJC is a short dude, but no way you need to swing your elbows that high.

Merkin wrote:Very few fouls are intentional. Maybe for a flagrant 2 you need intent, but that was definitely a flagrant 1.

I know PJC is a short dude, but no way you need to swing your elbows that high.

Merkin puts it nicely here. Players don't clear space with their elbows to bust teeth and hand out concussions, but instead to protect the ball. Doesn't mean it's not an incredibly dangerous play. Should have been a Flagrant 1. Easy call for the refs but they blew it. I guarantee though that if it was Zeus it would have been called. None of this "basketball move" bullshit. Of course it was a basketball move. They aren't out their playing table tennis.

Merkin wrote:Very few fouls are intentional. Maybe for a flagrant 2 you need intent, but that was definitely a flagrant 1.

I know PJC is a short dude, but no way you need to swing your elbows that high.

Tarc had a very damaging flagrant foul call at UNLV that was much less than what they called a "basketball move" last night.

I had thought before it didn't matter intent with the new rules and if there was elbow contact it was automatically a flagrant 1 or 2.

azcat34 wrote:

Merkin wrote:Very few fouls are intentional. Maybe for a flagrant 2 you need intent, but that was definitely a flagrant 1.

I know PJC is a short dude, but no way you need to swing your elbows that high.

Tarc had a very damaging flagrant foul call at UNLV that was much less than what they called a "basketball move" last night.

I had thought before it didn't matter intent with the new rules and if there was elbow contact it was automatically a flagrant 1 or 2.

Was the rule for a short period. It was changed in a May 2013 meeting to the following:

"Elbow rules

The committee tweaked the rules regarding elbow contact above the shoulders.

A minimum of a flagrant 1 foul is no longer required when an official is responding to illegal elbow contact above the shoulders of an opponent. Now, officials also can call a common foul on any illegal elbow contact, which may result in no free throws and simply a throw-in to the offended team.

This rule change is a stark contrast to the former minimum flagrant 1 foul rule that has been in effect for three years, which awarded the offended player two free throws and the ball. Coaches felt that, sometimes, elbow contact did not merit such a harsh penalty. However, officials who deem elbow contact to be excessive, unnecessary, severe or extreme are encouraged to call a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2 foul.

In a flagrant 1 situation, the player who was struck is awarded two free throws and his team gets possession of the ball. In a flagrant 2 foul situation, the penalty is the same, but the player who threw the elbow is ejected from the game.

Committee members felt the mandatory flagrant 1 penalty of the elbow rule was too harsh for all elbow situations.While the intent of the elbow rule has always been to protect players, they said, some legitimate basketball moves result in contact that is not excessive and do not deserve the harsher penalty."

Nice find EOCT.

EOCT wrote:Now, officials also can call a common foul on any illegal elbow contact

That would have been OK too, but where does it say a no-call is acceptable?

Merk, It looks like the the refs decided the elbow was a "legitimate basketball move" which was "not eccessive and and did not deserve the harsher penalty(a flagrent 1 or2)" nor, as kind of implied, any penalty at all.

Ridiculous. The player's elbow move was either to clear-out or express anger at a tight check, and a player was knocked over and probably injured. If the refs interpretation of this specific situation as "legitimate basketball move" were applied universally we'd have lots of blood and a rash of concussions.

Seems like this awful error in judgment should have Conference attention and a public clarification of how the rule will be interpreted by officials.

The refs got it wrong. Look at the foul again, arm comes up, elbow out. Intent is there. Not just random basketball arm movement. Guy skated on a flagrant while taking PJC out.

My feeling is that it is a dumb rule to call a flagrant anytime someone gets hit with an elbow...but until the rule changes that needs to be called.

I am always surprised about the lack of obvious calls in McKale.

Edgerson used to throw some mean elbows, he was suspended for one in particular. Probably most of the time guys do not intend harm, just making space and what are they to do with four guys hanging on them trying to strip the ball. But obviously there is always the asshole who throws them with bad intent. Tough call.

Chicat wrote:Fucking refs...

Did they miss the part of their "Ed Rush - Refereeing in 12 Simple Steps" seminar that they're supposed to protect the players?

I agreed with Bill Walton. Elbowing a guy in the face to clear him out of your way on the way to the basket is not a "basketball move".

I don't think its that easy. 99.9% of college basketball players would not have been hit in the face by the Oregon players elbow...........because 99.9% of college players are not 5 foot 7 or whatever height PJC is. I don't believe the UO player meant to clobber him in the face from the replay I witnessed.

The problem I see is that a guy PJC's size is going to get clobbered in the face at a much higher frequency because his face is at elbow level (for most college forwards/centers)..........so do the refs call the game using the letter of the law or simply rule that its a "play" because of PJC's unusual size?

dmjcat wrote:

Chicat wrote:Fucking refs...

Did they miss the part of their "Ed Rush - Refereeing in 12 Simple Steps" seminar that they're supposed to protect the players?

I agreed with Bill Walton. Elbowing a guy in the face to clear him out of your way on the way to the basket is not a "basketball move".

I don't think its that easy. 99.9% of college basketball players would not have been hit in the face by the Oregon players elbow...........because 99.9% of college players are not 5 foot 7 or whatever height PJC is. I don't believe the UO player meant to clobber him in the face from the replay I witnessed.

The problem I see is that a guy PJC's size is going to get clobbered in the face at a much higher frequency because his face is at elbow level (for most college forwards/centers)..........so do the refs call the game using the letter of the law or simply rule that its a "play" because of PJC's unusual size?

An elbow to the throat is just as illegal as an elbow to the mouth.

So was anyone else wishing we had a goon like hockey teams do? That same player was throwing that elbow around the whole game and was pretty close a couple other times to smashing our guys. But maybe that is just me being petty and vindictive instead of classy. Kind of like how baseball teams have pitchers hit players in retaliation.

Well, hope the refs will take better care of our little Mighty Mouse because he's a stud and I'm going to love watching him the next 4 years......not many players these days where we can enjoy a full college career. I love it when he takes it for a layup amongst the 'tall trees'....fearless.

Any word on his status? Rumor on another site was he's down for OSU.....hope not.

Bangkok Wildcat wrote: Any word on his status? Rumor on another site was he's down for OSU.....hope not.

I hope not as well. Anyone able to confirm?

If his tooth is broken, he still might be able to play. No info though. Maybe he should think about wearing mouth piece for the rest of the season.

HiCat wrote:If his tooth is broken, he still might be able to play. No info though. Maybe he should think about wearing mouth piece for the rest of the season.

I think a mouth piece would be a good idea

Looking doubtful that PJC will play.

If he doesn't I'm guessing York brings all of his non-PG skills to the position for brief spells but that TJ plays 35 minutes or so.

Chicat wrote:Looking doubtful that PJC will play.

If he doesn't I'm guessing York brings all of his non-PG skills to the position for brief spells but that TJ plays 35 minutes or so.

Dang, is this looking like a "miss one game" type of thing or a "who knows how long he'll be out" type of thing? Just the tooth, or something worse? Not that a tooth can't be bad, just wondering.

Gonna kill my RAP. Thanks a lot Jackson Parker Cartwright or whatever his name.

PieceOfMeat wrote:

Chicat wrote:Looking doubtful that PJC will play.

If he doesn't I'm guessing York brings all of his non-PG skills to the position for brief spells but that TJ plays 35 minutes or so.

Dang, is this looking like a "miss one game" type of thing or a "who knows how long he'll be out" type of thing? Just the tooth, or something worse? Not that a tooth can't be bad, just wondering.

I don't have any definitive info, but I think he was concussed.

Chicat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:

Chicat wrote:Looking doubtful that PJC will play.

If he doesn't I'm guessing York brings all of his non-PG skills to the position for brief spells but that TJ plays 35 minutes or so.

Dang, is this looking like a "miss one game" type of thing or a "who knows how long he'll be out" type of thing? Just the tooth, or something worse? Not that a tooth can't be bad, just wondering.

I don't have any definitive info, but I think he was concussed.

Well crap, that's the type of thing that can linger/come back over and over. I hope it was "mild" if that's what it was.

I thought I heard Walton say maybe he broke his nose. That was from walton, so who knows?

Looks like Chi heard right. Per the pre-game interview on the radio, it's a concussion. Hope it doesn't linger too long, we need a healthy PJC.

PieceOfMeat wrote:Looks like Chi heard right. Per the pre-game interview on the radio, it's a concussion. Hope it doesn't linger too long, we need a healthy PJC.

Yeah, this is really a concern.....how many of these can you get before it ends your career? Hope he gets back soon. Take care PJC.

Where is TJ?

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:Looks like Chi heard right. Per the pre-game interview on the radio, it's a concussion. Hope it doesn't linger too long, we need a healthy PJC.

Yeah, this is really a concern.....how many of these can you get before it ends your career? Hope he gets back soon. Take care PJC.

yeah, hope he's okay. don't want him going down the zach peters path...

TJ: "justin [trainer] rubbed my knee really well", says the injury is nothing big

A little freaked about the TJ thing, but he was photo-bombing the Bash interview, so he's obviously feeling fine. Get well soon, Parker. But no rush.

Sean said PJC is doing a lot better than he was two days ago. He may play against ASU, he may not, they're taking it day by day until his symptoms completely disappear. I'm just relieved it seems to be a mild concussion.

Good thing we have 7 full days off before the asu game

Seems like my speculation on the injury was off. Im not hearing anything about a tooth. Oh well, two posts now for me, zero credibility.

Guess that's what we're left to do when no one in the press can get us an update until game time two days layer. Disappointing.

Tucson wrote:Seems like my speculation on the injury was off. Im not hearing anything about a tooth. Oh well, two posts now for me, zero credibility.

Guess that's what we're left to do when no one in the press can get us an update until game time two days layer. Disappointing.

Colleges are stingy with all health-related information. It's not for a lack of trying. Try too hard -- see, Lute Olson -- and get criticized.

Anyone know if PJC has been able to practice yet?

slow going..

Jackson-Cartwright remains sidelined

16 hours ago • Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star


Arizona Wildcats guard Parker Jackson-Cartwright (0) makes the pass as he's defended by California Golden Bears forward David Kravish (45) and California Golden Bears forward Christian Behrens (14) in the second half during a game at Haas Pavilion in Berkeley, Calif., Saturday, Jan. 24, 2015. Arizona won 73-50.
Enlarge Photo

The Arizona Wildcats may be without backup point guard Parker Jackson-Cartwright again this week while he continues to recover from a concussion.

UA coach Sean Miller said today that Jackson-Cartwright continued to make “steady progress” from a “significant blow” he took above his nose during the Jan. 28 UA-Oregon game.

Miller said he was not sure if Jackson-Cartwright would even make the trip to Washington this week with the Wildcats, adding that he must be symptom free and pass a concussion recovery test before he turns. Jackson-Cartwright has not practiced since the injury.

“He’s really moving in the right direction; it’s just that with the information we have – and this is for all of our four players – as much as you’d like to have him available if you rush that back the repercussions are too significant,” Miller said. If “he gets hit and he’s not symptom-free, he could be out for a much longer time and it could damage him well beyond his time at Arizona. So we err on the side of caution.

“He’s working closely with doctors, with (trainer) Justin Kokoskie. If there were rungs on a ladder, he’s near the top, ready to climb on the roof -- it’s just that takes two days, four days, five days, we’re not sure. It’s just a matter of him being symptom free and passing the concussion test. That’s about where he’s at right now.”

Miller said the best-case scenario is that Jackson-Cartwright is cleared this weekend and the “worst case scenario is we would keep him here for his own health.” But the fact that Jackson-Cartwright will not have practiced until at least later this week suggests he won’t play or would only be a limited factor.

Without Jackson-Cartwright, UA went with Gabe York backing up T.J. McConnell at point guard and has also been asking Rondae Hollis-Jefferson to play the point for a few repetitions in practice. McConnell played 34 minutes last Saturday at ASU.

“It forces me to play more minutes and other people have to learn different positions to fill in,” McConnell said. “Parker is a huge part of this team and he’s done as probably a good job as anybody could do at his position and what he’s done for us this year is the reason we are as good as we are. We miss him but we miss him a speedy recovery.”

That said, McConnell didn’t use Jackson-Cartwright’s absence as an excuse for UA’s loss to ASU.

“We could have definitely used Parker in that game but anybody who watches our team knows how bad we played,” McConnell said. “So Parker would have helped but defensively is pretty much the reason we lost that game."

http://tucson.com/sports/basketball/col ... 05f90.html

The fact that the obvious foul wasnt called on that play is even more disturbing.

HiCat wrote:slow going..

Jackson-Cartwright remains sidelined

http://tucson.com/sports/basketball/col ... 05f90.html

Thanks for the article HiCat, I missed it.

Damn that really sucks. Better to be cautious and make sure he's 100% ready to go, obviously, but I never would have thought he'd be out this long. Here's hoping he can come back in time to knock off any rust before the tourney begins.

Captcarnage wrote:The fact that the obvious foul wasnt called on that play is even more disturbing.

even with going to the replay, they missed it. pac12 ref$ at their finest.

PieceOfMeat wrote: even with going to the replay, they missed it. pac12 ref$ at their finest.

From my TV, you could see the ref's replay monitor and what they saw, and it looked like a real obvious call.

They must have gotten a text from Larry Scott.

Captcarnage wrote:The fact that the obvious foul wasnt called on that play is even more disturbing.

It was a "basketball move".

Merkin wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote: even with going to the replay, they missed it. pac12 ref$ at their finest.

From my TV, you could see the ref's replay monitor and what they saw, and it looked like a real obvious call.

They must have gotten a text from Larry Scott.

I think I streamed that game on the internet, and even on my crappy feed it was obvious.

I said this a couple years back at TOS, and someone (i can't remember who it was, and I'm too tired and lazy to look it up right now) repeated a similar thought recently on this site....but....one of the few things that worries me in regards to losing our head coach, is this shitty pac12 reffing/leadership situation. I could definitely seeing it play a factor in a decision....maybe not the sole factor, but that extra little bit that nudges him over the edge to leaving.

If Miller leaves Arizona unexpectedly, it'll absolutely be due to conference leadership and officiating. He's taken care of in Tucson, but game management in the Pac-12 is absolutely putrid.

I'll take the other side, to me, it didn't look flagrant, it was a basketball move and he wasn't looking anywhere near PJC. Too hard to call that a flagrant in a contact sport. Just wrong place and wrong time for PJC.

catgrad97 wrote:If Miller leaves Arizona unexpectedly, it'll absolutely be due to conference leadership and officiating. He's taken care of in Tucson, but game management in the Pac-12 is absolutely putrid.

And go where? There are issues in any conference. He's not uprooting his family and what he's built here, being the Alpha male in the west coast, for the striped shirts. Come on now.