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Incorrect. We've recruited many many pgs.whatisee wrote:We recruit SG's with the hope of making them a PG. Simon is a SG. Not a PG. Simmons seems to be a SG as well regardless of the PG title.
Jordin Mayes, Josiah Turner, PJC and TJ via transfer were all PG's first. Compare to that Momo, Allen and Lyons via transfer who are the only SG's we've tried to convert. Momo and Lyons happened because we had no options.whatisee wrote:We recruit SG's with the hope of making them a PG. Simon is a SG. Not a PG. Simmons seems to be a SG as well regardless of the PG title.
sad -- went PJC instead which was a HUGE mistake.Main Event wrote:Well we do recruit them, I remember we were leading for Derryck Thornton and attempted to get in the De'Aaron Fox sweepstakes we just haven't landed that true PG yet.
im all for a solid true four year PG -- hasnt happened once since coming to AZ.84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
great point. i remember CSM saying that even though he was a "true" pg in college and is more accustomed to playing pass-first pgs, he has learned to embrace the versatility that combo guards bring to the table at the1. they just gotta have the handles, court vision, and ball iq to run the offense and create scoring opportunities for himself and his teammates. oh yeah, and defend. TJ was awesome and i love the guy to pieces, but let's not forget how hard the coaching staff and players had to coax him into being more assertive with his shot.pokinmik wrote:We don't even need a 'traditional' pg...we can have more of a scoring guard at the 1, as long as he can play team ball and handle the rock under pressure. We need someone with some fuckin stones and I like Kobi to be that guy. He has the height and athleticism too for the cherry on top. Throw in our gluttony of athleticism on the wing along with Chance, Dusan, and a big man transfer and were lookin good for next year.
I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
Unfortunately, as I've been saying for a while, Allen has none of those things. And he's a mediocre at best shooter to boot.dirtbags wrote: great point. i remember CSM saying that even though he was a "true" pg in college and is more accustomed to playing pass-first pgs, he has learned to embrace the versatility that combo guards bring to the table at the1. they just gotta have the handles, court vision, and ball iq to run the offense and create scoring opportunities for himself and his teammates. oh yeah, and defend. TJ was awesome and i love the guy to pieces, but let's not forget how hard the coaching staff and players had to coax him into being more assertive with his shot.
i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.legallykenny wrote:I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
And no, mid majors don't win championships.
thats exactly what he means and Jackson-Cartwright is 100% not that guy -- he is a back-up at best and nowhere near a championship level PG that Arizona should have on its roster.dirtbags wrote:
i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.
Where was he a five star prospect, let alone a top 10 PG in his class?dirtbags wrote:
also regarding the original Q, CSM is still recruiting "actual point guards". remember that PJC was a five star prospect and a top 10 pg in his recruiting class. i'm hoping PJC considers taking a RS year if it is the right thing, because his best playing days are ahead of him.
no -- Arizona went with PJC insteadgronk4heisman wrote: Wasn't Thornton not coming here relating to his experience with Trier?
If there was any off-season in which the Arizona basketball program needed to instill a new attitude, it would be this one.Arizona's 49-game home winning streak had barely ended when coach Sean Miller ripped into his team.
In the aftermath of the 18th-ranked Wildcats 83-75 loss to No. 23 Oregon on Thursday night, Miller said his players simply aren't doing what he's telling them to do.
"I've never been more down looking at a team I coached than what I just saw," he said. "Leadership, effort, togetherness, playing for the win. And right now things are going to get worse before they get better."
He went on to elaborate on his disgust.
"We've got to come to grips with two things," Miller said. "One, Sean Miller's your coach. You're gonna play for me. And Number 2 is, you're going to go so hard you can't breathe."
He said the Wildcats are "a collection right now of guys that are independent and thinking about a lot of things but certainly not thinking about what we're doing and what I'm talking about."
Miller's displeasure was obvious on the sideline during the game. At one point in the first half, he had face-to-face tirade against Kaleb Tarczewski, pointing a finger inches from the big senior center's nose.
The coach was asked what prompted that outburst.
"This isn't tennis," Miller said. "This is basketball. There's accountability on offense and defense and you win as a team and you lose as a team. I'll stop right there."
The Wildcats, who fell to 16-5 overall and at 4-4 are tied for sixth in the Pac-12, had lots of trouble with Oregon's trapping zone defense, committing 19 turnovers to the Ducks' six.
"They had nine steals," Miller said. "They played very hard. They've got great quickness. We were a disaster. We threw the ball to them on a number of occasions."
He said don't confuse this team with the ones that have dominated Pac-12 play in the past.
"Don't judge this team like Derrick Williams is on it. Or Sean Elliott. Or Rondae Hollis-Jefferson," Miller said. "Judge our team by the people that are in our locker room when we play. Just because things have happened in the past doesn't mean we can just -- the Jumbotron comes up and the crowd starts going crazy -- that we're going to win. That's not the way it works. It's a whole brand new ballgame right now."
Funny that 97 understood what I meant. Dirtbags has it right. I don't see it with pjc either. I'm talking about a 4 year guy who has a chip on his shoulder(probably unheralded), scrappy, true leader who isn't afraid to get in guys face when they aren't playing smart. Other than tj & momo, who hits the deck to get a ball? More nastiness, less softies!dirtbags wrote:i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.legallykenny wrote:I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
And no, mid majors don't win championships.
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?97cats wrote:no -- Arizona went with PJC insteadgronk4heisman wrote: Wasn't Thornton not coming here relating to his experience with Trier?
im sure he deserved that, but the phisicality of the college game and the mental commitment it takes is beyond him.Merkin wrote:PJC was a 4 star.
not a PGMerkin wrote:Simon was a 5 star.
The recruiting ranks aren't exactly full of point guards with NBA talent who are just athletically limited enough that they have to play all 4 years, and they're basically impossible to recognize. If you do see any though, please let the staff know because I'm sure they'd be more than happy to offer the next Kerr or TJ.dirtbags wrote:i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.legallykenny wrote:I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
And no, mid majors don't win championships.
he didnt come here cause the staff backed off him to keep Cartwright -- i know it hurts the brain to read, as it hurt my brain to hear it at the time.gronk4heisman wrote:
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?
i believe i started a '17 thread for you reference, and the answer is yes.Frybry02 wrote:Are we still going after Troy Brown in 2017?
What did the staff see in PJC exactly? Are we sure they didn't accidentally mix up his tapes with Ulis'?97cats wrote:he didnt come here cause the staff backed off him to keep Cartwright -- i know it hurts the brain to read, as it hurt my brain to hear it at the time.gronk4heisman wrote:
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?
I don't mind him as a backup, kinda change of pace PG like he was his freshman year backing up TJ. As THE guy though he's not that on this leveldirtbags wrote:silly to split hairs at this point, but: https://goo.gl/nRt18h" target="_blank
first result (tucson citizen) - Scout.com ranks Jackson-Cartwright as a five-star recruit and the sixth-best point guard in the class. ESPN.com tabs him as the No. 7 point guard nationally. Rivals.com and 247Sports rank him similarly and put him among the top 50 players in the nation.
the pg accolade is also in his UA bio - Ranked as the No. 32 overall recruit and No. 5 point guard in his recruiting class by Scout … Rated as the No. 51 overall recruit in his class by Rivals … Rated as the No. 57 overall recruit, No. 11 point guard and No. 6 player from California in his recruiting class … Ranked as the No. 62 overall prospect and the No. 12 point guard in his class by 247 Sports …
Thats a big misstep on the staffs part then. We couldn't get back in on him once PJC got to campus and it was clear he wasn't going to be the PG needed to lead a successful college team?97cats wrote:he didnt come here cause the staff backed off him to keep Cartwright -- i know it hurts the brain to read, as it hurt my brain to hear it at the time.gronk4heisman wrote:
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?
i agreegronk4heisman wrote:
Thats a big misstep on the staffs part then.
yes they could, last season Arizona had a chance to continue to pursue Thornton in the Fall and backed off cause PJC's camp had a cow and a half when they found out so Arizona pulled out.gronk4heisman wrote: We couldn't get back in on him once PJC got to campus
Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.Alieberman wrote:97-
Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
yes but hes more Mark Lyons than TJ McConnellSpaceman Spiff wrote:Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.Alieberman wrote:97-
Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
LMAO -- maybelegallykenny wrote:
What did the staff see in PJC exactly? Are we sure they didn't accidentally mix up his tapes with Ulis'?
Yeah, I just don't know what else we can do between now and next year.97cats wrote:yes but hes more Mark Lyons than TJ McConnellSpaceman Spiff wrote:Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.Alieberman wrote:97-
Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
it was just a mistake, Arizona shoulda taken Thornton regardlessWildcatLouis wrote: That comment is amazing. The fact that all these college athletes have "handlers" is insane. Do PJC's handlers believe that a 5'7" PG has NBA potential that Miller would be impacting by recruiting other players? (I know he is listed at 5'11", but there's now way that is true.)
his junior and senior seasons there is no question about itWildcatLouis wrote:97, I have always thought that Miller gave a longer leash to York
its not just youWildcatLouis wrote:Maybe it's just me
cause he wasWildcatLouis wrote:the past couple of years I have felt that York was handled differently than other players.
Right now I'd be happier with that than some of the other options mentioned. At least Momo had some cajones, wasn't a pure turnover machine or someone who'd rather watch the ball roll past him than risk getting an ouchy on his leg or tear his compression pants.97cats wrote:yes but hes more Mark Lyons than TJ McConnellSpaceman Spiff wrote:Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.Alieberman wrote:97-
Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
I don't disagree except to say that from what I saw of Thornton this year at Duke, he would have put us in a better place, but he wouldn't have reversed this team's fortunes. I agree he was better than PJC, but look at his advanced stats.pokinmik wrote:Pretty big fuckin misread acquiescing to PJC and his folks instead of keeping the pursuit on a guy like Thornton. You can tell from the mixtapes alone that PJC isn't nearly as good or promising. My judgment is probably clouded a tad since I'm playing monday morning qb but it's still fairly obvious.
Ray Smith is actually this guy with his personality and maturity -- also, if Jackson comes to Arizona he is a huge upgrade in this dept just because of the respect he immediately commands for nothing other than being the best......and, if Trier is back, he will be more comfortable as a soph as well and the guy is just so competitive.Alieberman wrote:I just don't know who is going to be the leader on our team next year. There's no one currently on our roster that has it. Even with all the talent we have coming in, unless someone steps up to lead his team I don't see a FF in our future.
We lost a lot in that department tbe last two years. We lost two great vocal leaders in TJ and NJ and two great leaders by example in RHJ and AG.97cats wrote:Ray Smith is actually this guy with his personality and maturity -- also, if Jackson comes to Arizona he is a huge upgrade in this dept just because of the respect he immediately commands for nothing other than being the best......and, if Trier is back, he will be more comfortable as a soph as well and the guy is just so competitive.Alieberman wrote:I just don't know who is going to be the leader on our team next year. There's no one currently on our roster that has it. Even with all the talent we have coming in, unless someone steps up to lead his team I don't see a FF in our future.
plus, to that last point, Alkins is a very confident guy as is Simmons -- by default shit will be much more competitive and intense with zero coddling.