Re: Arizona Coaching Search
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm
Hansen, is that you?azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.
A co-op community for Arizona Fans
https://beardownwildcats.com/
Hansen, is that you?azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.
I've been on these boards for over 10 years. From the UDug curse, NC State Coaching Spreadsheet, Things more clutch than Bill Self, to Shay Binion, and beyond. Funny the guy with no avatar and a low post count is calling regulars trolls. Who are you anyway? I have an opinion. I think people are jumping the gun here and acted silly. I have a right to my opinion. I've never been a troll nor do I feed into trolls.splitsecond wrote:You pretty much said everything I meant to say when I said he was trolling.qwertyus wrote:This is by far one of the worst hires we could have done.UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.
I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.
I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.
I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
Is Arizona a military academy? No, we're the farthest thing from it! Then why the hell are we hiring a military academy coach? Oh, his teams are disciplined? That couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the roster is entirely made up of military personnel, right?
For all the talk about candidates without lots of HC experience, like Troy Brown and Beau Baldwin, KN is arguably a worse hire, because his experience is coaching at a unique institution targeting unique individuals. How's that going to translate to modern Power 5 recruiting? A blind man can see that it won't.
The "Arizona sucks" is a bullshit excuse, and you know it. We could promote Yates, or hire a P5 OC, because we're at the very least a stepping stone for a lot of candidates. Your posts reek of blind, servile sunshine-pumping.
No thanks, I'll still pass on this shit hire.
Asstard is that you?qwertyus wrote:Hansen, is that you?azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.
Revolutions sometimes start with literally one person. Everyone else was a follower. What we need at Arizona is a good old fashioned revolt. I don’t care who is just parroting the latest take. Doesn’t mean that take isn’t the right one.UofAlum05 wrote:Well they came up with the money but you don't think it concerned Sumlin's camp at all how long it took to come up with that money? I mean most programs in America have boosters who will pull $2 million out of their pocket in a sec if it meant winning an extra a game or two.Chicat wrote:Look, your statement was inconsistent at best, and supposed a ton.UofAlum05 wrote:C'mon man. You are one of the more reasonable people on these boards. 1) I do know that Sumlin still couldn't be won even when the money was there. I don't ever name drop who my buddies are but yes I do get the info and yes it does even go farther than what my premium (I still pay for) tells me.Chicat wrote:How do you deride people for inferring and supposing things you think they don’t know....
And then follow up with the following which is based on inferences and suppositions you couldn’t possibly know?UofAlum05 wrote:Lots of people who don't know jack shit are seeing a few people pissed and have decided to join the bandwagon. I can promise 90% of the people upset haven't watched a Navy football game nor understand that the Triple Option is not what he will run here.
I've watched Navy a lot because I follow AAC football. They are so well coached it is disgusting. They do all the right things, the play calling, situational awareness, and decision making is absolutely elite. And no it isn't because they run the Triple Option or a disciplined service academy. They are just crazy well coached team.
That was simply amazing...UofAlum05 wrote:I wanted Sumlin but it appears he wasn't convinced he could win here despite us coming up with the money. Arizona isn't a desirable job, just face it. Would you want to coach at a place that has no money and half empty stadiums in the second half? Go to games around the country. Arizona football just sucks compared to other stadiums and places you walk into.
I strongly believe the Ken N is by far the best that we could have done.
2) You out of anyone should know what the follower mentality with social media has done to people. Look at all these people calling the AD office and screaming on social media. Are you going to tell me that most of them by their peers that Ken H was a good coach would do the same thing. We talk about this on the political boards all the time. Most people here that there peers do or don't agree with something and then just go on Twitter, message boards, etc. and act like experts. You know this better than anyone.
3) Someone called me a troll earlier. Which is nuts. You know out of anyone that I never state an opinion unless I have some sort of information that lead me to that opinion. So yes Sumlin turned us down, I know this. Yes I have been in college football games around American and think Arizona 2nd half experience is downright embarrassing to other stadiums I have been in. And yes I have watched Navy a bunch and think they are damn good.
90% of people haven’t watched a Navy game? Silly, especially as someone else pointed out Army/Navy.
We came up with the money for Sumlin but he doesn’t want to coach somewhere with no money? Uhhh....
We got to the point with Sumlin that we had the money in place (meaning he negotiated salary) but Ken is the best we’ll ever be able to do? Makes zero sense. The money it would take to get Sumlin would get other “name” coaches.
You supposed a lot about this fanbase and called “90%” of us out. I’m going to absolutely hit back on that. And yeah, I also don’t like to mention who I may know, but I get info from time to time as well. Doesn’t lead me to make assumptions about 9 out of 10 Arizona fans. In fact, it usually just makes me shake my head at our AD’s ineptitude (going back to Livengood) and feel sorry for those that invest hoping for better days that may never come.
It’s actually ok for people to be disappointed. If Niumatalolo is all that great, he’ll make us eat crow.
And yes, the AD's ineptitude is scary at times. The text I got last week was, "Byrne should be in jail" was very alarming when I asked WTH was going on over there during his tenure.
I don't believe anyone watching the Army-Navy game counts as people who have watched Navy Football. Unfortunately due to my ECU homerism I have to watch a lot of AAC football. Would Sumlin been a homerun? Absolutely. Would 50 other coaches besides Ken H been a homerun? Yes. But I have come to conclusion that when you combine the ineptitude that you mentioned, an apathetic fan base, a small market feel to the Arizona brand, etc. that this may have been the best they could have done within the timeline.
My heart just sinks when I think about the future of Arizona Athletics. I just seems so dark when looking at everything. And 9/10 my gut is right and I hate that. I just need to find some positive and I really like Ken H a lot. I've always been impressed with his teams and I think this whole calling the AD's office, threatening to pull support, etc. is a little silly. Its a followers mentality and you know it.
Compared to Sumlin and under .500 in conference? I mean, we're ok with a midmajor or coordinator, but AAC success won't translate?btfd16 wrote:Don't think one 10 and one 11 win seasons against Tulsa, ECU, Tulane and UConn translates. Plus, he only won 7 games against the best the AAC has been in a while.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Like with 10 and 11 win seasons and bowl appearances virtually every year?Chicat wrote: Between Niumatalolo and Yates, all the players want Yates.
If they hire Niumatalolo, and Yates isn’t retained as DC, our roster is going to look a whole lot like Navy’s.
Niumatalolo isn't my #1, but he has been a consistently succesful college HC. Yates hasn't.
Players can't make this decision and there's a reason why.
OSUCat wrote:Bunch of over reaction, and you guys can’t help it I know.
First, Ken isn’t the coach yet.
2nd, you have no idea if the triple option will be used. Jasper, the 10 year OC, would likely stay at Navy due to his son waiting on a heart and might be offered the job anyways. So...no gueentee that the triple option is in play at all.
The only negative reaction I have see is on this is the triple option. Not a single other reason. Crazy that the reaction is over blown at this stage.
OSUCat wrote:Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.
OSUCat wrote:Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.
I was open to Stoops (because anything was better than the dumpster fire that Mackovic left in his wake).OSUCat wrote:Raise your hand if you thought RR and Mike Stoops where good hires at the start. Ha.
Sumlin did that in the best division in the best conference, is a proven recruiter (Navy does not prove recruiting to me), resonates with fans and recruits, runs an entertaining offense, even if Ken changes it, it's a freaking experiment. If he doesn't we're Georgia Tech.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Compared to Sumlin and under .500 in conference? I mean, we're ok with a midmajor or coordinator, but AAC success won't translate?btfd16 wrote:Don't think one 10 and one 11 win seasons against Tulsa, ECU, Tulane and UConn translates. Plus, he only won 7 games against the best the AAC has been in a while.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Like with 10 and 11 win seasons and bowl appearances virtually every year?Chicat wrote: Between Niumatalolo and Yates, all the players want Yates.
If they hire Niumatalolo, and Yates isn’t retained as DC, our roster is going to look a whole lot like Navy’s.
Niumatalolo isn't my #1, but he has been a consistently succesful college HC. Yates hasn't.
Players can't make this decision and there's a reason why.
Is there any precedent for a current HC running one system to completely change it when he changes schools (honestly curious)? Sure coaches evolve but they all tend to stick to their base system.OSUCat wrote:Bunch of over reaction, and you guys can’t help it I know.
First, Ken isn’t the coach yet.
2nd, you have no idea if the triple option will be used. Jasper, the 10 year OC, would likely stay at Navy due to his son waiting on a heart and might be offered the job anyways. So...no gueentee that the triple option is in play at all.
The only negative reaction I have see is on this is the triple option. Not a single other reason. Crazy that the reaction is over blown at this stage.
Every time I think I've seen the worst take ever, someone comes out of the woodwork to post a shittier one.ztonyg wrote: We've just become the Kansas of the Pac-12. There's not a lot to like here. RichRod was our Mangino (without the oversize gut). Ken H is going to be like Turner Gill and go 5-19 over 2 seasons. Unfortunately, unlike Kansas our basketball program could also be imploding at the same time.
If Heeke's line answers, is there a Pac12 number we could call to bully Larry Scott?splitsecond wrote:I was so shocked they answered. I don't know how long that will last.btfd16 wrote:hahahahaha love itsplitsecond wrote:FYI - They are picking up at Heeke's office if you want to call and tell them how you feel. 520-621-4622
Hey, that's not my name! That's not anybody's name!azgreg wrote:Asstard is that you?qwertyus wrote:Hansen, is that you?azgreg wrote:The more I think about Ken N being the guy the more I like it.
That will be a hell of a day.Olsondogg wrote:This thread is epic. So much to chew on. It will pale in comparison to the b-ball thread when shit hits the hole at some point in the future.
I will point to sage advice from miller for you all. “Things are never as good nor as bad as they appear...”
Carry on!
PHXCATS wrote:Either Heeke pulled the Ken offer or Scheer is being used
I thought this yesterday. I could see it.PHXCATS wrote:Either Heeke pulled the Ken offer or Scheer is being used
Olsondogg wrote:This thread is epic. So much to chew on. It will pale in comparison to the b-ball thread when shit hits the hole at some point in the future.
I will point to sage advice from miller for you all. “Things are never as good nor as bad as they appear...”
Carry on!
So choices are:btfd16 wrote:Sumlin did that in the best division in the best conference, is a proven recruiter (Navy does not prove recruiting to me), resonates with fans and recruits, runs an entertaining offense, even if Ken changes it, it's a freaking experiment. If he doesn't we're Georgia Tech.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Compared to Sumlin and under .500 in conference? I mean, we're ok with a midmajor or coordinator, but AAC success won't translate?btfd16 wrote:Don't think one 10 and one 11 win seasons against Tulsa, ECU, Tulane and UConn translates. Plus, he only won 7 games against the best the AAC has been in a while.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Like with 10 and 11 win seasons and bowl appearances virtually every year?Chicat wrote: Between Niumatalolo and Yates, all the players want Yates.
If they hire Niumatalolo, and Yates isn’t retained as DC, our roster is going to look a whole lot like Navy’s.
Niumatalolo isn't my #1, but he has been a consistently succesful college HC. Yates hasn't.
Players can't make this decision and there's a reason why.
Okay.. Can't really argue with that.. Doesn't mean I want him, but another board post conquered by Spiff... You win this round.Spaceman Spiff wrote:So choices are:
Guy who was mediocre with a ton of resources.
Guy who was good with very few resources.
I don't see the hullabaloo over going with option B.
gronk4heisman wrote:
Guys who coach at regular schools.Spaceman Spiff wrote:
So choices are:
Guy who was mediocre with a ton of resources.
Guy who was good with very few resources.
I don't see the hullabaloo over going with option B.
Thanks for the insults.qwertyus wrote:Every time I think I've seen the worst take ever, someone comes out of the woodwork to post a shittier one.ztonyg wrote: We've just become the Kansas of the Pac-12. There's not a lot to like here. RichRod was our Mangino (without the oversize gut). Ken H is going to be like Turner Gill and go 5-19 over 2 seasons. Unfortunately, unlike Kansas our basketball program could also be imploding at the same time.
We've gone to 5 bowls in 6 years with a sexual predator at the helm and 2-star talent. A D-Coordinator who ran a terrible gimmick defense, and didn't recruit.
Not to mention the upgrades to the stadium and academics surrounding the program. With possibly more on the way.
Kansas hasn't been to a bowl game since 2008, has 5 conference wins in the decade since then, and 3-9, DickRod's worst year, was the best anyone at Kansas has managed since Mangino.
I won't respond to your retarded Basketball equivalency. We're talking about football here, on the football board. But, I know reading and rubbing 2 brain cells together is hard for you, so I'll just pretend you didn't say anything.
Hopefully heeke saw some fan reaction and a couple booster calls and backed outRondaeShimmy wrote:The audacity of hope
I don't disagree with your post by any means, and no disrespect meant to the people you respect, but I don't really care what "long timers" get excited for. The name of the game is recruiting, and if recruits can't get excited for a hire, then I don't think it was a successful hire. Just look at Christian Young's tweet for example. Even throw out current players cause I know we can't make a hire based off them, but when the recruits don't get excited, I feel something is wrong. Niumatalolo could very well prove me wrong and I will be very excited for him if he does because he seems like a great, loyal, stand up guy, but I want wins and recruits.EVCat wrote:He is not going to run the triple option here.
I can't really put this in a love/like/dislike/hate category because, quite frankly, I don't know enough about the guy to know whether he would work out. Obviously he is not going to do the same things he did at Navy. We aren't going to recruit undersized engineers with amazing discipline to run a 1980's offense. I assume he has some ability beyond Navy, some history?
I think it would be pretty silly to come unglued over this. Sanford? That would be "unglued" time...a guy who was mediocre with Notre Dame resources then went to a generally dominant mid level program and went 6-7, parlaying that into our job. That would be "hate".
I doubt Heeke is just an idiot. So why here, not Baldwin (forget Sumlin...that was always going to be based on whether we could make it happen, and we couldn't?). I am willing to hear why this is great. I know some long timers with a lot of ties to our program/boosters who are not of the "funding this" level but of the "hang with those guys" level who are thrilled about this if it gets announced. Think it is a frickin home run. Then I read here it is Armageddon, the end of Arizona football...
and I think...no, nope. When opinion I respect is that varied, something is not right. One side is missing something big here...
And, frankly...the people who love it are people I really respect and who have a ton of knowledge of this process and have been tight with our program through many regimes, so they are not regime-loyal types.
So I am confused. Maybe it will all make itself obvious...
You still miss the point. Mangino is like Rich Rod in that they both had a single very good season (Mangino's was obviously better).ztonyg wrote:Thanks for the insults.qwertyus wrote:Every time I think I've seen the worst take ever, someone comes out of the woodwork to post a shittier one.ztonyg wrote: We've just become the Kansas of the Pac-12. There's not a lot to like here. RichRod was our Mangino (without the oversize gut). Ken H is going to be like Turner Gill and go 5-19 over 2 seasons. Unfortunately, unlike Kansas our basketball program could also be imploding at the same time.
We've gone to 5 bowls in 6 years with a sexual predator at the helm and 2-star talent. A D-Coordinator who ran a terrible gimmick defense, and didn't recruit.
Not to mention the upgrades to the stadium and academics surrounding the program. With possibly more on the way.
Kansas hasn't been to a bowl game since 2008, has 5 conference wins in the decade since then, and 3-9, DickRod's worst year, was the best anyone at Kansas has managed since Mangino.
I won't respond to your retarded Basketball equivalency. We're talking about football here, on the football board. But, I know reading and rubbing 2 brain cells together is hard for you, so I'll just pretend you didn't say anything.
I was comparing RichRod to Mangino.
RichRod:
Arizona Wildcats (Pac-12 Conference) (2012–2017)
2012 Arizona 8–5 4–5 4th (South) W New Mexico
2013 Arizona 8–5 4–5 4th (South) W AdvoCare V100
2014 Arizona 10–4 7–2 1st (South) L Fiesta† 17 19
2015 Arizona 7–6 3–6 5th (South) W New Mexico
2016 Arizona 3–9 1–8 6th (South)
2017 Arizona 7–6 5–4 3rd (South) L Foster Farms
Arizona: 43–35 24–30
Mangino:
Kansas Jayhawks (Big 12 Conference) (2002–2009)
2002 Kansas 2–10 0–8 6th (North)
2003 Kansas 6–7 3–5 T–4th (North) L Tangerine
2004 Kansas 4–7 2–6 T–5th (North)
2005 Kansas 7–5 3–5 5th (North) W Fort Worth
2006 Kansas 6–6 3–5 4th (North)
2007 Kansas 12–1 7–1 T–1st (North) W Orange† 7 7
2008 Kansas 8–5 4–4 3rd (North) W Insight
2009 Kansas 5–7 1–7 6th (North)
Kansas: 50–48 23–41
Looking at their respective records they look very comparable (with a slight edge to RR). Then look what happened to Kansas after they fired Mangino and hired Turner Gill. They've been a complete dumpster fire ever since. Ken N is a better coach than Turner Gill but is a massive dropoff. I'd have rather taken a P5 coordinator (which we could've gotten with the money we're throwing around).
PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.
Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.
And all of that is exactly why I don't automatically go "these people are really connected and they like it, so I do too.".btfd16 wrote:I don't disagree with your post by any means, and no disrespect meant to the people you respect, but I don't really care what "long timers" get excited for. The name of the game is recruiting, and if recruits can't get excited for a hire, then I don't think it was a successful hire. Just look at Christian Young's tweet for example. Even throw out current players cause I know we can't make a hire based off them, but when the recruits don't get excited, I feel something is wrong. Niumatalolo could very well prove me wrong and I will be very excited for him if he does because he seems like a great, loyal, stand up guy, but I want wins and recruits.EVCat wrote:He is not going to run the triple option here.
I can't really put this in a love/like/dislike/hate category because, quite frankly, I don't know enough about the guy to know whether he would work out. Obviously he is not going to do the same things he did at Navy. We aren't going to recruit undersized engineers with amazing discipline to run a 1980's offense. I assume he has some ability beyond Navy, some history?
I think it would be pretty silly to come unglued over this. Sanford? That would be "unglued" time...a guy who was mediocre with Notre Dame resources then went to a generally dominant mid level program and went 6-7, parlaying that into our job. That would be "hate".
I doubt Heeke is just an idiot. So why here, not Baldwin (forget Sumlin...that was always going to be based on whether we could make it happen, and we couldn't?). I am willing to hear why this is great. I know some long timers with a lot of ties to our program/boosters who are not of the "funding this" level but of the "hang with those guys" level who are thrilled about this if it gets announced. Think it is a frickin home run. Then I read here it is Armageddon, the end of Arizona football...
and I think...no, nope. When opinion I respect is that varied, something is not right. One side is missing something big here...
And, frankly...the people who love it are people I really respect and who have a ton of knowledge of this process and have been tight with our program through many regimes, so they are not regime-loyal types.
So I am confused. Maybe it will all make itself obvious...
That slick sonuvabitch Heeke did it. He's making me pray for Baldwin.chiefzona wrote:PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.
Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.
Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.
TatetheGreat wrote:Hire Tedy Bruschi's agent as AD, Tedy as HC/CEO, keep Yates as DC, with Hunley as DL and Cecil as DB coach. Tate runs the offense.
Mazzone stalling taking the Texas job?chiefzona wrote:PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.
Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.
Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.
Post above yoursUofAlum05 wrote:Mazzone stalling taking the Texas job?chiefzona wrote:PHXCATS wrote:Baldwin announced tomorrow is my feeling.
Sumlin cooled for whatever reason, if we couldnt get enough cash or he was upset how hard it was to get the cash or he turned down lots of cash whatever, and after the Rincon Market "sighting" then it was Baldwin but something needed to sell this to the fanbase so Heeke used Scheer.
Baldwin is his safest bet. Sumlin is still in play. Mazzone is stalling. This will shape up at some point tonight or tomorrow. Poor Scheer. He's struck out twice. Hansen ain't no better. Lev has stayed outta the fray for the most part. Finley bit like a hungry Marlin.
RondaeShimmy wrote: