Bear Down Wildcats

Don’t feel bad. I have sling with all the pac channnels and they were showing final score during Arizona’s game time. If it wasn’t for being sicker than a dog I would’ve lit them up.

prh wrote:Scum, to be fair, no one east of Boulder gets P12Net anyways, so they don't get to watch anyways.

But really, Pac12 has completely fucked itself and fans of its schools.

Our game was on a channel that no one gets, at a time that no one except Hawaii can stay awake for the entirety of the game.

Think about that everyone. The Pac12 has actually made it more difficult for its fans to watch games.

So very true. I have direct TV. Since the formation of the Pac 12 network, I get to see LESS games. Meanwhile, I see the Big 12 network, and a bunch of SEC programming, and I live in California. Ridiculous.

Yeah I remember back in like 2007-2012 you could watch Arizona games nationally...

If we weren't on an ESPN station it was on Fox sports net or Fox sports Arizona, which were available on pretty much every provider.

CalStateTempe wrote:Don’t feel bad. I have sling with all the pac channnels and they were showing final score during Arizona’s game time. If it wasn’t for being sicker than a dog I would’ve lit them up.

Get a streaming box (Android or Amazon), install Kodi, look up apps on Kodi where you can get all the Pac 12 networks (there are numerous), install them, and always pick Pac 12 Arizona so you get the U of A game for sure. All of this is free.

ChooChooCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Don’t feel bad. I have sling with all the pac channnels and they were showing final score during Arizona’s game time. If it wasn’t for being sicker than a dog I would’ve lit them up.

Get a streaming box (Android or Amazon), install Kodi, look up apps on Kodi where you can get all the Pac 12 networks (there are numerous), install them, and always pick Pac 12 Arizona so you get the U of A game for sure. All of this is free.

I actually did that for a few years, but finding ESPN televised games was a little frustrating since ESPN shuts the sites down so quickly, so ended up ponying up the $25 for Sling TV with the sports pack.

Strongly recommend the Nvidia Shield for a streaming Kodi box with all the other apps too. Even though I now have a smart TV, I still use the Shield for Netflix, Amazon Prime and so on. Still use Kodi for movies and TV shows.

Seems like a good enough place to drop this, since Sumlin talked generally about Nathan Tilford and Michael Eletise today, which got me thinking about other recent 4-stars. I went back just five years -- and it's not good. Story doesn't really change if you go back further (Pierre Cormier, for example).

Whatever the reason, Arizona has just mostly struck out:

Good stuff AG.

From reports here, it seems Tilford can't/won't block and is having trouble picking up the offensive schemes, which are obviously related.

Any thoughts of moving Tilford elsewhere? Something where you don't have to have a great football mind? Hate to waste all that athletic ability.

Merkin wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Don’t feel bad. I have sling with all the pac channnels and they were showing final score during Arizona’s game time. If it wasn’t for being sicker than a dog I would’ve lit them up.

Get a streaming box (Android or Amazon), install Kodi, look up apps on Kodi where you can get all the Pac 12 networks (there are numerous), install them, and always pick Pac 12 Arizona so you get the U of A game for sure. All of this is free.

I actually did that for a few years, but finding ESPN televised games was a little frustrating since ESPN shuts the sites down so quickly, so ended up ponying up the $25 for Sling TV with the sports pack.

Strongly recommend the Nvidia Shield for a streaming Kodi box with all the other apps too. Even though I now have a smart TV, I still use the Shield for Netflix, Amazon Prime and so on. Still use Kodi for movies and TV shows.

Yeah I dont use it for ESPN or nationally televised games, I solely use it for Pac 12 games. I highly recommend a Nvidia Shield as well.

This is a fucking shit show.

I think we would have beaten BYU if Freikh and/or Eldridge could have played. The Oline play has obviously improved with Freikh back. Sucks because it's going to be tough to dig out of that hole and make something of this season even with two wins in a row.

It is pretty nice to be able to coast through this season and not really pay attention that much. I forgot about the game today until almost half time.

UAEebs86 wrote:I think we would have beaten BYU if Freikh and/or Eldridge could have played. The Oline play has obviously improved with Freikh back. Sucks because it's going to be tough to dig out of that hole and make something of this season even with two wins in a row.

Freikh has pretty much doing something good on all Arizona's long runs vs. Oregon State.

https://collegesportsmaven.io/arizona/f ... FkLbrS-SQ/

I definitely don't see us beating 3 out of @UCLA, Colorado, Oregon, @WSU and ASU to go bowling.

5-7 is the ceiling and even that will be a miracle.

No Friekh, no (2017) Tate, no chance. And the backups are walk-ons, scared Freshmen and noodle-armed QBs. Gonna be tough to do much with that cast of misfits. The coaches don’t impress, either.

It would be awesome if we could get a stop on defense when we really need one.

Maybe that will be year two.

Meanwhile our ace recruiting head coach is landing JUCO OL who only have offers from Arizona and Delaware State. This ain't getting better any time soon. I'm selling stock on this mess of an era. I hope Sumlin enjoys his retirement pension we're willingly being robbed of.

ChooChooCat wrote:Meanwhile our ace recruiting head coach is landing JUCO OL who only have offers from Arizona and Delaware State. This ain't getting better any time soon. I'm selling stock on this mess of an era. I hope Sumlin enjoys his retirement pension we're willingly being robbed of.

Let me get this straight, your only concern is what school he has offers from. When did Arizona became a Recruiting Power.

cordera89 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Meanwhile our ace recruiting head coach is landing JUCO OL who only have offers from Arizona and Delaware State. This ain't getting better any time soon. I'm selling stock on this mess of an era. I hope Sumlin enjoys his retirement pension we're willingly being robbed of.

Let me get this straight, your only concern is what school he has offers from. When did Arizona became a Recruiting Power.

My only concern is Sumlin lands guys who are better than the guys Rich Rod landed AT THE VERY LEAST. He's failing miserably at that. I'm not expecting him to beat USC or Oklahoma for guys, but I do expect him to land guys who have actual other Division I offers at positions as crucial as OL/DL.

Tim Hough quit the team. Time for a young blood to get some reps.

Yet another year where the best we can hope for is to beat a mediocre to bad asu team. So basically 70% of the last 40 years

I find it amusing that some people are wringing their hands over Sumlin's recruting so far. RR put this team's talent level in the shitter and flushed it. Sumlin hasn't even been at the school for a year. It's going take years for our team to get any depth of talent.

PieceOfMeat wrote:I find it amusing that some people are wringing their hands over Sumlin's recruting so far. RR put this team's talent level in the shitter and flushed it. Sumlin hasn't even been at the school for a year. It's going take years for our team to get any depth of talent.

Then why are we paying a retread a fortune to take years to get any kind of talent?

ChooChooCat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:I find it amusing that some people are wringing their hands over Sumlin's recruting so far. RR put this team's talent level in the shitter and flushed it. Sumlin hasn't even been at the school for a year. It's going take years for our team to get any depth of talent.

Then why are we paying a retread a fortune to take years to get any kind of talent?

well I don't make hiring decisions but my guess would be that the person who hired him figured he was the best option for the job of rebuilding this program.

Also, don't kid yourself, it's going to take a great recruiter to get our recruting back on track and get this team back to a level where we have the talent to compete on a regular basis.

but it isn't going to happen in less than a year. You don't repair the damage RR did to our talent level over night.

I'm not buying the empty cupboard argument, the Cats were predicted to win 9 games this season, possibly 10 with a Heisman candidate QB, a solid running game, and some super sophomores on defense and finally the UA decides to put some emphasis on ST.

But then you get the fastest player on the team who decides he doesn't want to run any more and would rather be Peyton Manning, since that is his best shot at the league, has a hard time picking up the new offensive scheme, then does get his ankle tweaked.

2 of the best DBs get injured, and another one quits the team mid season. Same with your best OL guy, who can't shake off ankle issues. Special Teams sucks just as bad they always have.

Marcel Yates will never win DCOY, but his teams were actually improving, and no longer in the 100's.

IMO, the expectations this year were strictly based on Tate using his greatest ability, running. For whatever reason, that didn't happen. After that, we had nothing (remember when Dawkins was the starter). The defense was horrible last year (#118) and there was no reason to expect huge improvements (currently #103). We need talent. Hopefully Sumlin starts delivering.

Merkin wrote:I'm not buying the empty cupboard argument

How many future nfl players do we have on the team?

The predictions were all based on Tate being the Tate of a handful of games from 2017.

The D may have been expected to be slightly better, but going from the 100's to the 90s doesnt a big improvement make.

the cupboard is empty

DrWildcat wrote:IMO, the expectations this year were strictly based on Tate using his greatest ability, running. For whatever reason, that didn't happen. After that, we had nothing (remember when Dawkins was the starter). The defense was horrible last year (#118) and there was no reason to expect huge improvements (currently #103). We need talent. Hopefully Sumlin starts delivering.

I didnt see this post, but yes, exactly this

My opinion is a mix of Merkin's and POM's. RR recruited some good players at the skill positions. But he resorted to gimmicks and smoke and mirrors because he never recruited support for them.

Not along the lines, not on special teams. Combine that with his subsequent "roll the ball out" approach to game coaching, and he was never going to retire in Tucson.

But attracting linemen and the kicking/punting game were not just RR deficiencies.

Has anybody checked the calendar lately? This program is as far gone from the tough, scrappy Tomey and Smith years as the end of that era was from its dubious beginning--under the cloud of probation in the wake of Tony Mason's departure.

Almost 20 years, both ways. And as much as our "good football team" (sorry, Keanu) reputation was built in the first 20, it has fallen apart in the latter two decades, particularly on the recruiting trail under the never-present Mackovic and RR.

THAT is the long-term damage from under which the program is digging out. Sumlin needs to start consistently pulling local kids and re-establishing a respectable, local presence in Phoenix living rooms.

Smith had that by his second season. What is Sumlin doing to get that back?

All the super positive expectations failed to account for our D-2 level offensive and defensive lines. Hell I had major concerns about them but that didn't stop me from expecting 8 wins.

Our lines were obviously going to be bad, but most people (again, myself included) foolishly tried to overlook that.

prh wrote:All the super positive expectations failed to account for our D-2 level offensive and defensive lines. Hell I had major concerns about them but that didn't stop me from expecting 8 wins.

Our lines were obviously going to be bad, but most people (again, myself included) foolishly tried to overlook that.

Same here. We may actually be like 6-2 right now if we had decent lines, but until that's fixed we're not winning more than 5-7 games in a season ever.

ASUHATER! wrote:

prh wrote:All the super positive expectations failed to account for our D-2 level offensive and defensive lines. Hell I had major concerns about them but that didn't stop me from expecting 8 wins.

Our lines were obviously going to be bad, but most people (again, myself included) foolishly tried to overlook that.

Same here. We may actually be like 6-2 right now if we had decent lines, but until that's fixed we're not winning more than 5-7 games in a season ever.

I'm not sure what game you watched. We had two running backs with over a hundred yards rushing and was Rhett sacked? Our issue was once again defense. Although we are better its still not very good and when it comes to crunch time we couldn't get their offense off the field.

Our offensive line is putrid. Has been all year.

Sumlin has about lost me, and it has nothing to do with him needing more time, it has to do with him appearing to be a shitty coach.

What made Tate special was his running and he hasn't done any of that all year. Did he get hurt in the first play of the first game?
If he can't run because of injury, Sumlin should have sat him to heal a long time before this. If he just refuses to run, Sumlin should have benched him a long time ago.
If Sumlin decided to not have him run, then Sumlin should be fired, because this year, when we desperately need 5 yards, we can usually count on Tate delivering a 50 yard incompletion.

blackjacker wrote:Sumlin has about lost me, and it has nothing to do with him needing more time, it has to do with him appearing to be a shitty coach.

What made Tate special was his running and he hasn't done any of that all year. Did he get hurt in the first play of the first game?
If he can't run because of injury, Sumlin should have sat him to heal a long time before this. If he just refuses to run, Sumlin should have benched him a long time ago.
If Sumlin decided to not have him run, then Sumlin should be fired, because this year, when we desperately need 5 yards, we can usually count on Tate delivering a 50 yard incompletion.

I've wondered the same things and don't know what's going on for sure but my take on this is its a bit of all three. I think at first Tate was trying like heck to be the pocket passer and wasn't running when he should have. Once he tried to start running he couldn't because he was hurt. I think the trainers probably said he can go if he feels like it and he felt like it but he couldn't. I think Sumlin tried to give him as much rope as he could on that injury and finally sat him down. Should Tate have been sat down earlier? Yea probably. Should Tate have tried to run more before he got hurt? Yea he sure should have and now he can't. Now who's to blame for it all? You can point fingers all around. Tate the competitor wanting to play but he can't, trainers that should have just said he can't play but didn't and a new coach trying to build some trust with a talented player and give him some leeway and gave him to much. Mix all that up with a new offensive system that probably isn't simple and Houston we have a problem.

Tate needs to run to be effective. When he doesn't, it causes a ton of problems on offense. He ends up holding the ball too long which makes it seem like our oline is worse than it is (although its not great). Eventually, he just throws a low percentage deep ball. I doubt that is always the play call, it just seems that way with Tate at QB. With Rhett, at least he can read a defense and throw the intermediate route. He gets the ball out much quicker than Tate which helps everyone.

The defense, well it is just bad. I don't see a path where we improve with Yates as DC. He has had his time and nothing has changed.

tgrumpy2 wrote:

blackjacker wrote: I've wondered the same things and don't know what's going on for sure but my take on this is its a bit of all three. I think at first Tate was trying like heck to be the pocket passer and wasn't running when he should have. Once he tried to start running he couldn't because he was hurt. I think the trainers probably said he can go if he feels like it and he felt like it but he couldn't. I think Sumlin tried to give him as much rope as he could on that injury and finally sat him down. Should Tate have been sat down earlier? Yea probably. Should Tate have tried to run more before he got hurt? Yea he sure should have and now he can't. Now who's to blame for it all? You can point fingers all around. Tate the competitor wanting to play but he can't, trainers that should have just said he can't play but didn't and a new coach trying to build some trust with a talented player and give him some leeway and gave him to much. Mix all that up with a new offensive system that probably isn't simple and Houston we have a problem.

A lot of questions that can't be answered. Did he decide that he has a future as a pro-QB and is the change all on him? Did outside influences convince him to become a pocket passer? In any case it's on the coaches heads. Early on Sumlin mentioned something about wanting him to become more of a QB, so if they took him out of his game, they fucked this team bigly as he was our biggest weapon running from the QB position. If they allowed him to just do what he wanted to (pretend to be Joe Montana) they fucked this team bigly.

There are many here who believe he is milking the injury to avoid being a runner. I don't know about that, but it seems like this change happened before the injury.

I don't have the football acumen to see what is happening on the field like others do. No doubt he can put zip on the ball, but it seems to me that he fails to see the opportunity to make short and intermediate passes that give us first downs and just launches bombs downfield.

If he won't run, then I'd rather see Rhett start.

blackjacker wrote: There are many here who believe he is milking the injury to avoid being a runner. I don't know about that, but it seems like this change happened before the injury.

I don't recall Tate being injured the last 3 games of last season, when he stopped running.

Just seems odd that he or they would throttle the fastest player on the team, pre-injury.

It was really evident last week when JJ Taylor, probably the fastest player left on the team, was able to be caught from behind and had the ball poked away on a TD run. Khalil Tate October 2017 version never would have been caught.

I realized that Tate came to the UA since it was the only program that offered him a shot at QB, but he has had his shot. He does not have a even an average FBS arm.

For me, the Tate as QB experiment is over. Get him healed up, and put him on the field as a slot or wide receiver. Can you imagine Tate, Ellison, Shun Brown and Poindexter all out there at the same time? Now if the UA just a QB with a FBS arm to get them the ball.

So can someone who is smarter about defense tell us all what opposing defenses have been doing to slow Tate down? Seems to me, the end of last year, defenses figured Tate out and slowed him down. I don't think he just "stopped" running. I think someone saw what those defenses were doing which led to handing the ball off or throwing.

I just hate to see so many disparaging comments about student-athletes from grown men in their pajamas. Unless someone has inside, factual information that these young men are actually doing something nefarious, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Commenting on their performance is open game but to comment on their "intent" when you don't know what is in their mind, not cool.

Now the coaches are well-paid professionals and are open game as well. Just my two cents.

UALoco wrote:So can someone who is smarter about defense tell us all what opposing defenses have been doing to slow Tate down? Seems to me, the end of last year, defenses figured Tate out and slowed him down. I don't think he just "stopped" running. I think someone saw what those defenses were doing which led to handing the ball off or throwing.

I just hate to see so many disparaging comments about student-athletes from grown men in their pajamas. Unless someone has inside, factual information that these young men are actually doing something nefarious, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Commenting on their performance is open game but to comment on their "intent" when you don't know what is in their mind, not cool.

Now the coaches are well-paid professionals and are open game as well. Just my two cents.

Bringing the outside linebacker down and contain the outside run.

Merkin wrote:He does not have a even an average FBS arm.

Plenty to be critical about with Tate, but arm strength is NOT one of them. Dude can spin it with the best of them.

TheBlackLodge wrote:

Merkin wrote:He does not have a even an average FBS arm.

Plenty to be critical about with Tate, but arm strength is NOT one of them. Dude can spin it with the best of them.

Wasn't there an offensive lineman who could out throw all the QBs on the team a few years ago? Won some contest in camp.

Obviously, more to being a QB than arm strength. I was referring more to accuracy and touch. RhettRod has a much weaker arm, but far better touch on short and intermediate throws.

There were at least 2 other passes that RhettRod threw 20+ yards that should have been picked off, but the UCLA DB had no idea where the ball was.

BJ Denker probably had the weakest arm in recent UA QB history but was smart enough to know his limitations.

This is cool

Colorado game is going to be totally empty. Tons of second hand tickets listed for $6

Especially if we get blown out by 30 or 40 points again at home.

UALoco wrote:So can someone who is smarter about defense tell us all what opposing defenses have been doing to slow Tate down? Seems to me, the end of last year, defenses figured Tate out and slowed him down. I don't think he just "stopped" running. I think someone saw what those defenses were doing which led to handing the ball off or throwing.

I just hate to see so many disparaging comments about student-athletes from grown men in their pajamas. Unless someone has inside, factual information that these young men are actually doing something nefarious, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Commenting on their performance is open game but to comment on their "intent" when you don't know what is in their mind, not cool.

Now the coaches are well-paid professionals and are open game as well. Just my two cents.

azgreg wrote:

UALoco wrote:So can someone who is smarter about defense tell us all what opposing defenses have been doing to slow Tate down? Seems to me, the end of last year, defenses figured Tate out and slowed him down. I don't think he just "stopped" running. I think someone saw what those defenses were doing which led to handing the ball off or throwing.

I just hate to see so many disparaging comments about student-athletes from grown men in their pajamas. Unless someone has inside, factual information that these young men are actually doing something nefarious, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Commenting on their performance is open game but to comment on their "intent" when you don't know what is in their mind, not cool.

Now the coaches are well-paid professionals and are open game as well. Just my two cents.

Bringing the outside linebacker down and contain the outside run.

Pretty much just that (at least last year). It was a read option, if Tate looks and sees the defender in good position maintaining containment he's supposed to hand it off.

Merkin wrote:

TheBlackLodge wrote:

Merkin wrote:He does not have a even an average FBS arm.

Plenty to be critical about with Tate, but arm strength is NOT one of them. Dude can spin it with the best of them.

Wasn't there an offensive lineman who could out throw all the QBs on the team a few years ago? Won some contest in camp.

Obviously, more to being a QB than arm strength. I was referring more to accuracy and touch. RhettRod has a much weaker arm, but far better touch on short and intermediate throws.

There were at least 2 other passes that RhettRod threw 20+ yards that should have been picked off, but the UCLA DB had no idea where the ball was.

BJ Denker probably had the weakest arm in recent UA QB history but was smart enough to know his limitations.

Tate does seem to have 1 throwing speed, which is I'm-gonna-throw-this-ball-as-hard-as-I-can-no-matter-how-close-that-receiver-is-to-me.

I've seen that work for qb's in the past but you have to have receivers are adept at catching those fastballs as they're not always going to be perfectly in the breadbasket.

PieceOfMeat wrote: Tate does seem to have 1 throwing speed, which is I'm-gonna-throw-this-ball-as-hard-as-I-can-no-matter-how-close-that-receiver-is-to-me.

Just a side note, one thing old timers will note is that all wide receivers wear gloves now. When I was younger and actually cared about the NFL, don't recall seeing any gloves.

I remember a few years ago during an interview a wide receiver was asked why they wear gloves now. The WR (Jerry Rice?) said that QBs throw the ball so hard now that the laces will rip the skin off your hands.

Fred Biletnikoff




Lance Alworth

azgreg wrote:Bringing the outside linebacker down and contain the outside run.

So if that is it, was Tate handing the ball off or throwing even in those situations where the correct call would be to tuck and run this year? Are there a lot of examples of that to provide some justification for the folks hammering him for not running? Or is he making the right call but just making bad throws? Or, is the coaching staff just not calling too many pass plays?

UALoco wrote:

azgreg wrote:Bringing the outside linebacker down and contain the outside run.

So if that is it, was Tate handing the ball off or throwing even in those situations where the correct call would be to tuck and run this year? Are there a lot of examples of that to provide some justification for the folks hammering him for not running? Or is he making the right call but just making bad throws? Or, is the coaching staff just not calling too many pass plays?

I'm just saying it's what I saw. USC would cheat their LBs a little more outside and crash in when the RO came their way. Tate would then either hand it off or try to make a play which didn't work as often. This year I haven't seen Tate take on tacklers as often and he is giving up more quickly.

azgreg wrote:

UALoco wrote:

azgreg wrote:Bringing the outside linebacker down and contain the outside run.

So if that is it, was Tate handing the ball off or throwing even in those situations where the correct call would be to tuck and run this year? Are there a lot of examples of that to provide some justification for the folks hammering him for not running? Or is he making the right call but just making bad throws? Or, is the coaching staff just not calling too many pass plays?

I'm just saying it's what I saw. USC would cheat their LBs a little more outside and crash in when the RO came their way. Tate would then either hand it off or try to make a play which didn't work as often. This year I haven't seen Tate take on tacklers as often and he is giving up more quickly.

The giving up and not taking on tacklers is why I have been hard on Tate this year. He really has shown no willingness to try and make a guy miss or run them over this year. Instead, he just runs out of bounds for no gain.