Bear Down Wildcats

Good thing we won, so did UNLV and we would have been the only winless team if we lost.

Two items to touch on regarding the Cal game:

I won't critique the smallest crowd (mall and stadium) I can remember in over 40 years of Homecomings. Circumstances happen: 20 game losing streak, no parade (I assume due to construction issues), and unusually warm November weather for exactly the kind of late season afternoon game we've clamored for. But, I saw what I assume is tens of thousands spent on debateably attractive or appropriate 3-D painted metal constructs that are perfect targets for vandalism, as well as a huge stage, ugly gradiated paint with lettering (temporary, I assume) on the Old Main steps, and what amounted to a progressive timeshare pitch at Old Main and in front of the Main Library where people with mics (including Robbins) talked about what a great job the ministry of library sciences is doing with their (no public debate allowed) takeover of Bear Down Gym. Complete with the usual university buzzwords. It's all okay, depending on your point of view, but an ironic and tone-deaf juxtaposition of flashy spending for the predictably small crowd for a still-bad football team that is fully the current administration's responsibility. And it's hard to be too sympathetic after they show that kind of spending judgment (as well as on a long list of other things) and then turn around and cry about funding.

And get off my lawn.

The second is another example of something I raised earlier in this thread. Once again, Lev felt compelled to tweet out about an astonishingly egregious call. In a tie game with two minutes left, we've got Cal backed up on their one foot line. We might have won on a safety, but we stop them and we'll get great field position for at least a terrific opportunity for a winning field goal. But our DC, Don Brown, accidentally backed into and lightly nudged the head linesman on the sidelines. And he throws a 15-yard flag to bail out Cal: First Down. Understandably, Brown can't believe it and says so, and the judge, jury and executioner is all-too-happy to make it 30 yards on a second flag. Fortunately we won, but somebody let me know if they've ever seen the kind of judgment that would allow for such game-changing tin-horn penny-ante posturing to happen in a close game when good USC, Oregon, UCLA, or Stanford teams are involved with something significant on the line. If you have, it's an equally bad indictment of the quality of Pac-12 officials. We're bad, so we get the bottom of the barrel refs assigned to our games, but that kind of thing is way below an acceptable Mendoza Line and isn't addressed by an overly simplistic "we just need to be better so it doesn't matter as much." If anybody thinks what Lev and I described is all okay, my hat's off to you: Don't Worry; Be Happy.

Now, to lighten up and get back in a celebratory mood, I love this shot of K Lucas Havrisik spraying water on WBB's Sam Thomas when she comes out to congratulate him. Let the rumors begin!

TheCatInTheHat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:07 pm Two items to touch on regarding the Cal game:
The second is another example of something I raised earlier in this thread. Once again, Lev felt compelled to tweet out about an astonishingly egregious call. In a tie game with two minutes left, we've got Cal backed up on their one foot line. We might have won on a safety, but we stop them and we'll get great field position for at least a terrific opportunity for a winning field goal. But our DC, Don Brown, accidentally backed into and lightly nudged the head linesman on the sidelines. And he throws a 15-yard flag to bail out Cal: First Down. Understandably, Brown can't believe it and says so, and the judge, jury and executioner is all-too-happy to make it 30 yards on a second flag. Fortunately we won, but somebody let me know if they've ever seen the kind of judgment that would allow for such game-changing tin-horn penny-ante posturing to happen in a close game when good USC, Oregon, UCLA, or Stanford teams are involved with something significant on the line. If you have, it's an equally bad indictment of the quality of Pac-12 officials. We're bad, so we get the bottom of the barrel refs assigned to our games, but that kind of thing is way below an acceptable Mendoza Line and isn't addressed by an overly simplistic "we just need to be better so it doesn't matter as much." If anybody thinks what Lev and I described is all okay, my hat's off to you: Don't Worry; Be Happy.

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that anyone would care enough to try to screw over the AZ football team, but it certainly seems we have a lot of penalties that happen just to stall some new positive momentum.
I think in this particular case, it was simply a ref being a dick.

TheCatInTheHat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:15 pm Now, to lighten up and get back in a celebratory mood, I love this shot of K Lucas Havrisik spraying water on WBB's Sam Thomas when she comes out to congratulate him. Let the rumors begin!

They are dating so no rumors necessary.

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:26 pm Honestly, I find it hard to believe that anyone would care enough to try to screw over the AZ football team, but it certainly seems we have a lot of penalties that happen just to stall some new positive momentum.
I think in this particular case, it was simply a ref being a dick.

I agree. The only issues are about overall competence and judgment, and whether the guy would dare act like such a dick on a bigger stage under greater scrutiny. In any event, it comes down to the caliber of personnel you hire. Once again, you get what you pay for.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:58 pm They are dating so no rumors necessary.

That's awesome! Pretty adorable; plus, they could turn out some major pro soccer kids!

TheCatInTheHat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:11 pm

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:26 pm Honestly, I find it hard to believe that anyone would care enough to try to screw over the AZ football team, but it certainly seems we have a lot of penalties that happen just to stall some new positive momentum.
I think in this particular case, it was simply a ref being a dick.

I agree. The only issues are about overall competence and judgment, and whether the guy would dare act like such a dick on a bigger stage under greater scrutiny. In any event, it comes down to the caliber of personnel you hire. Once again, you get what you pay for.

Yet none of us knows what was said to the ref to trigger that second penalty. Good experienced refs don't have rabbit ears, but there is a limit.

Having seen Don Brown in action he probably called the ref a chickenshit dick-licking sheep-fucker and told him that the better part of his brains leaked out of his mamma’s coochie at the time of conception.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:30 am Yet none of us knows what was said to the ref to trigger that second penalty. Good experienced refs don't have rabbit ears, but there is a limit.

I don't question the second penalty at all. I'm sure Brown got every bit of his money's worth for Flag #2. It's all about the first one, which completely bailed out a team in deep trouble by gifting them with a first down over taking umbrage at accidentally being backed into and then deciding to make a technical sideline management call in that time and place. From the box score, I believe the guy who made the call is named Harold Mitchell. The Pac-12 director of officials is David Coleman, but he's basically a business personnel management type who relies on Merten Hanks for detailed football issues. One of them should initiate some dialogue as a "teachable moment" with Mr. Mitchell, but I'd say the probability of that is somewhere south of 5%, as life in the Pac-12 continues.

Anyone else annoyed that Tempe is using a cactus logo as a fork these days?

I think I see something we should definitely try to improve on next year.

.....and ANOTHER season of Arizona football suckage comes to an end.

Thanks Robbins.

I have absolutely no hope for next season with this extremely poor coaching staff.

Imagine much of Tucson feels the same and will not attend the games.

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:42 pm I have absolutely no hope for next season with this extremely poor coaching staff.

Imagine much of Tucson feels the same and will not attend the games.

not only with the coaching staff, but we need a massive influx of talent as well.

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:42 pm I have absolutely no hope for next season with this extremely poor coaching staff.

Imagine much of Tucson feels the same and will not attend the games.

Yeah attendance this year was bad (although a couple games were ok) but next year I doubt we average more than like 20-25k a game.

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:42 pm I have absolutely no hope for next season with this extremely poor coaching staff.

Imagine much of Tucson feels the same and will not attend the games.

Yeah, if you look at the number and types of penalties, and lack of execution (like having 10 guys on the field AFTER A TIMEOUT!!!), this is not a well coached team.

PieceOfMeat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:44 pm

Merkin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:42 pm I have absolutely no hope for next season with this extremely poor coaching staff.

Imagine much of Tucson feels the same and will not attend the games.

not only with the coaching staff, but we need a massive influx of talent as well.

And yet there are a couple of interesting stats this year. We were in the lead or within 1 score in 8 of the loses this year. Total yards we were with 177 yards total for the year out gaining 4 opponents including ASSu. I don't think it's quite as bleak as 1-11 would suggest, but we definitely need an influx of talent.

Well 38-15 looks better than 70-7 on a billboard. Good job, good effort Jedd Lasso.

A season for the record books.

They were 1-0 when I attended games so for me the season wasn’t all bad.

We better get some talent soon.

I give Fischs first full year an A- as head coach.

The three primary areas I base that grade on are 1) Recruiting 2) Player motivation/buy in 3) Team Discipline/Execution.

I grade those three at 1) A 2) A 3) D and weight them at 60/20/20. Recruiting is by far and away the most important part of Fischs job.
The biggest disappointment for me were the stupid penalties and our inability to correct them as the season progressed. Normally a coach uses the bench to correct these kinds of issues and Fisch was somewhat limited by the almost complete lack of a bench/subs to turn to. The recruiting grade is a no brainer. The Cats currently rank 4th in Pac 12 2022 class, and even if that falls off a couple of spots it would still rank as a significant improvement over the last 2 coaches. I also graded Fisch an A for player buy in/motivation. The team never quit.

Looking forward next year is likely to be largely a rerun of this year. We will likely be favored in only 1 game next season (North Dakota State). One or two wins seems likely given the complete lack of talent. The PAC12 recruiting rankings for the last 4 classes (the ones that will take the field for Fisch next year) are:

2018 11th
2019 11th
2020 11th
2021 11th

And these conference recruiting rankings don't even reflect the mass exodus of players after Sumlins departure......so in reality its even worse.

Granted, a handful of Fischs first class will likely play, but successful College football programs don't rely on freshman. It won't be until 2025 until Fischs 1st class (most of whom which will redshirt) will be upper classman. Rebuilding a college football program is a long, tough slog.

Any AZ fan expecting significantly better results, or a winning season, next year is just batshit crazy.

I can't give anybody an A- who loses to NAU.

Not sure your A for recruiting is valid.
We've had some very good recruits de-commit.

azgreg wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:50 pm I can't give anybody an A- who loses to NAU.

And whose only win was against a Covid depleted team.

Not sure what grade Fisch deserves as head coach, but as the play caller probably a D+.

While I wouldn’t give him an A I would give him a solid B- or C. I think this was and is a daunting rebuild. Sumlin just stripped it bare and just keeping the kids together playing hard was remarkable.

The play calling and lack of scoring along with stupid non contact penalties that fall directly on the coaches just doesn’t allow me to go higher.

We have lost two recruits but he still has to ink these guys and with the new USC coach a certain TE might get a call. Maybe even a DEnd. If he gets those and we finish top 5 then n the conference I think it moves to a solid B

I'd say a C+

So the general consensus was he was an above average coach?

I don't see it. Maybe 3 wins next season at the most, and that's if McCloud is fully recovered. Cruz and Plummer are not D1 QBs and even then McCloud has a below average arm, but is quite good at moving the chains.

Maybe UA can get some USC leftovers if Riley brings his own guys with him.

D minus

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:11 pmD minus

That's what I'd give for on field performance. Off field I'm inclined to give a B+ maybe even an A-.

He has now seen the roster so he should know the moves he has to make. For me this was year zero snd today is day 1 of year 1.

We have 23 spots and he said we will sign probably 20 and add a few transfers but I also think 7 players will move on after 12/15 allowing us to use the one time opportunity to add up to those 7 transfers.

He should know where we need help (OLine, LB and safety for me) and this is where I start judging his efforts in this rebuild

I give anyone who grades a coach and totally leaves out player development in their assessment an Incomplete and I would write at the top of the page, “Did you understand the assignment?” which coincidentally is exactly what I’d like to know from Jedd Lasso. Winning the offseason and then going 1-11 implies he did not.

Not sure how much development we can see in an abbreviated off season after the hire.

In that period you are creating a new culture of expectations and building an environment of competition. I think he did well in those areas.

The fact he started 7 freshman Saturday tells me that the bulk of the Sumlin recruits flat out can’t improve or don’t want to or they would have been out there.

Where he gets knocked down is the consistent non contact penalties we faced. Just the fact our QB, who he coaches, goes to fast to allow people to get set week after week In squarely on his shoulders.

Holding and defensive contact penalties will happen but non contact penalties really show poor coaching. That’s why zi had him at a B- to C. I want to see the product next year and it won’t be easy starting at SDST and then coming home to Mississippi St

azcat49 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:48 pm I want to see the product next year and it won’t be easy starting at SDST and then coming home to Mississippi St

First game in San Diego State's new stadium and then The Pirate probably pissed we never gave him a look.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:06 pm

azcat49 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:48 pm I want to see the product next year and it won’t be easy starting at SDST and then coming home to Mississippi St

First game in San Diego State's new stadium and then The Pirate probably pissed we never gave him a look.

Speak for yourself! He was always high on my list and would have been a perfect fit. Just give him 0 tolerance.

The offseason work rates an A. NAU and no improvement in redzone offense and stupid penalties rate an F.
Never quit attitude brings performance up to a D.
Overall grade C.

Fisch's first year reminded me of Stoops' first year in Tucson. Improvement in effort and nice to see a team not quit. But lack of talent and poor coaching was obvious. And at least Stoops beat NAU.

There will be a talent upgrade, but what concerns me is coaching. Stoops and Stoops improved the D side of the ball, but we didn't reach .500 until we replaced Canalas with Sonny Dykes. We lose Don Brown, and still have Fisch running the O. All the talent in the world, but poor coaching, and getting significantly above .500 is a challenge. See USC. Riley has enough on the roster already, if there isn't a mass exodus, that he could win the PAC next year by just getting USC to play as a team, instead of a bunch of guys just wearing the same uniform.

The D-Coordinator hire is paramount. A step back from Brown, and even with a talent upgrade, hard to see us winning more than 3 games next year. And with Fisch running the O, hard to see us ever winning big, in my opinion.

Arizona had a 30.7% TD% in the red zone, that is the lowest as far back as NCAA.com has stats on that available (2013) and 25% lower than any other team in all of Div I. Let that sink in, that is beyond horrible. That is not even including the worst turnover margin and top 5 in penalties. No discipline mixed with horrible offense is not a good combo. But at least he is best buds with all his players. All that and people are giving him an A? He is an offensive coach, calling the plays and in charge of the offensive (which is clearly way over his head). We are not the only team to have QB issues in the last 8 years, anyone saying so is just making excuses. I would give him an F for football and a B- for salesmanship. Unfortunately we are on the football board and not the Insurance salesman board.

Player's grades are out, although I don't understand how the defense can be worse than the offense.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/football/ ... OOIqAZszcc

Overall, the UA earned a season grade of 59.3 from Pro Football Focus, which ranked 127th out of 130 FBS teams. Its offense ranked 122nd with a 61.2 grade, while the defense tied for 125th at 49.6 despite moving up 60 spots nationally in total defense from 2020.

Probably because the offense put up a lot of yards. Just couldn't translate that into many points.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:11 pmD minus

At least he beat out Cutty Sark, who got an F.


Arizona Jedd Fisch D-
1-11
Six of Arizona's 11 losses were by double-digits, and for the most part, the Wildcats were the punchline to a very bad joke. Fisch was a disaster in his first year in Tucson, but it's not like we expected much.



https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... tennessee/

A disaster is a bit much IMO. vegas had our O/U at 2.5 and if he would have beat NAU and UDub like he should he would have exceeded expectations.

Those double digit losses are a bit skewed. Only SDSt and CU were bad and we were playing with QB uncertainty. The two OOC games against FBS schools won 20 games between them. I would have given him a C-

A lot of times sports writers are simply cranking out click bait with no real thought behind it. That is what I think of that article. With what Fisch had to work with and the injuries, the man deserves a C+ at least. Just keeping a team's morale up and keeping them playing hard was an amazing feat.

How many of those double digit losses were competitive until the 4th quarter until the Cats wore out?

But his play calling was suspect the most part with the weapons or lack thereof he had. Others were just head scratchers, such as going for 2 when down 6. I have been watching football over 50 years, and don't think I have ever seen that. There is just no reason to do that.

Along with his record setting worst ever red zone offense.

So D+.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:32 pm A disaster is a bit much IMO. vegas had our O/U at 2.5 and if he would have beat NAU and UDub like he should he would have exceeded expectations.

Those double digit losses are a bit skewed. Only SDSt and CU were bad and we were playing with QB uncertainty. The two OOC games against FBS schools won 20 games between them. I would have given him a C-

I don't know how it's possible to grade above a D losing to NAU. The one game that should be an automatic W is a loss.

Cal isn't exactly an inspired win with them Covid decimated. The nicest thing to say is we played hard vs some good teams and split the 2 easiest games we had on the schedule.

You guys have some great points. My thought is it wasn't a disaster. Since we had one win and this team seemed to keep playing hard despite everything. I give it a C-

F+

You don't lose to nau, scrape by against a team with barely enough players to field a team for your only W, and get anything higher.

Though it was an expected F. So he met expectations.

He said a lot of good things and seems to have team morale higher which is good, but he needs to bring in a massive amount of talent and do some better coaching in the next few years.

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:28 pm My thought is it wasn't a disaster. Since we had one win

There's no better window into where Arizona football is then the fact someone can say we had a 1-11 season that included a home loss to a sub .500 FCS team in the same breath as saying the season wasn't a disaster...and it doesn't come off like satire.

I think I'm more bummed about the results from this season actually potentially not being disastrous than I am about the results from this season.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:42 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:28 pm My thought is it wasn't a disaster. Since we had one win

There's no better window into where Arizona football is then the fact someone can say we had a 1-11 season that included a home loss to a sub .500 FCS team in the same breath as saying the season wasn't a disaster...and it doesn't come off like satire.

I think I'm more bummed about the results from this season actually potentially not being disastrous than I am about the results from this season.

If it had come out of the blue, it would certainly a disaster but we really just lost a couple more games than was expected.