Bear Down Wildcats

Very well said EVCat. RR is a lot of things, and without question has flaws. But to attribute recent problems past couple of years to 'he just doesn't care as much as he used to'......is just silly. The dip in recruiting was not due to not caring, it was due to putting faith in the wrong coaches....especially on the defensive side.

HaCats wrote:Very well said EVCat. RR is a lot of things, and without question has flaws. But to attribute recent problems past couple of years to 'he just doesn't care as much as he used to'......is just silly. The dip in recruiting was not due to not caring, it was due to putting faith in the wrong coaches....especially on the defensive side.

There was never a recruiting high to dip from. He has never been able to really recruit well.

Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

And his last 3 classes at WVU were #60, 24 and 49. He had top 10-15 classes at Michigan, but a dead horse could recruit top 15 classes there.

HaCats wrote:Very well said EVCat. RR is a lot of things, and without question has flaws. But to attribute recent problems past couple of years to 'he just doesn't care as much as he used to'......is just silly. The dip in recruiting was not due to not caring, it was due to putting faith in the wrong coaches....especially on the defensive side.

I've said this before, but I believe what happened is that RR was doing a lot of things that worked for a long time for him... and then suddenly they didn't work anymore. His approach won him a lot of games, including a 10 win season in 2014. Everything seemed like it was working. Then 2015 happened. He realized there were some big problems, had to make some choices, but there was no quick fix. 2016 was a tough year and it seems like he realized last year that he needed to adjust his approach on offense as well since this was another case of things not working like they did in the past. He's started using more two TE sets, some two back sets, a few less zone reads, etc. It was all a matter of whether or not the fixes would take quickly enough to save his job. We still have a lot of season to go but it looks like he may just be able to pull out of the dive.

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

To be fair, no one has done much better in Tucson.

One thing about RR is with these lower rated classes or Michigan classes, if he has a QB he excels. If he doesn't he sucks. Seems like the only position we need to really worry about.

Puerco wrote:

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

To be fair, no one has done much better in Tucson.

Stoops did considerably better. Until he didn't.

Harvey Specter wrote:

Puerco wrote:

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

To be fair, no one has done much better in Tucson.

Stoops did considerably better. Until he didn't.

Yep. Hell I remember that even in Stoops last year, where every one knew he was a lame duck, he still had a couple of 4 stars committed, who ultimately decommitted after his firing of course. RR's class this year is certainly representative of a class of a lame duck coach based on the star ratings. It's likely far too late to adjust course at this point for this season, but if he can't utilize Tate as recruiting momentum for the next 2 years then the guy and his staff simply can't recruit all that well.

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

That's about what you'd expect for Arizona. It's slightly below middle of the pack in terms of number of P5 schools. That's about where we are in terms of our recruiting resources, maybe even a little higher.

Losing Dante hurt big time. He is getting more out of low stars than Stoops got out of higher stars. Not sure why he can't attract higher stars.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

That's about what you'd expect for Arizona. It's slightly below middle of the pack in terms of number of P5 schools. That's about where we are in terms of our recruiting resources, maybe even a little higher.

which is exactly what doubters like myself are saying...if you recruit like "what you'd expect" then of course we are consistently bad to mediocre... why is that hard to understand?

Yep, RR is entirely to blame for Arizona not being a recruiting powerhouse. Don't worry that we've never really been a recruiting powerhouse, have lacking facilities, pathetic fan base who have been calling for RR's head since day 2, average academic reputation, has to compete with the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, and other real recruiting powerhouses for recruits, spotty college football history..etc. etc. I see folks are looking for a scape goat and I guess RR can be that for you. I'll choose differently. BearDown and I'll see you at homecoming.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

That's about what you'd expect for Arizona. It's slightly below middle of the pack in terms of number of P5 schools. That's about where we are in terms of our recruiting resources, maybe even a little higher.

Our ceiling is Top 20-ish classes... Stoops did it twice in his 2nd & 3rd classes (#18, #21).

Stoops was a hot name that created a buzz around the program and busted ass on the recruiting trail. He did not capitalize on it with on-field success and recruiting subsequently trailed off into the high 30's to mid 40's range that RR has maintained (1 in Top 30, 1 outside Top 50).

We are not going to grab Top 20-25 classes unless we have a great recruiter... and we won't stay there unless we can keep that momentum going with on-field success.

UALoco wrote:Yep, RR is entirely to blame for Arizona not being a recruiting powerhouse. Don't worry that we've never really been a recruiting powerhouse, have lacking facilities, pathetic fan base who have been calling for RR's head since day 2, average academic reputation, has to compete with the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, and other real recruiting powerhouses for recruits, spotty college football history..etc. etc. I see folks are looking for a scape goat and I guess RR can be that for you. I'll choose differently. BearDown and I'll see you at homecoming.

yawn. RR for life. coach of the year. the new bear bryant. etc. etc.

UALoco wrote:Yep, RR is entirely to blame for Arizona not being a recruiting powerhouse. Don't worry that we've never really been a recruiting powerhouse, have lacking facilities, pathetic fan base who have been calling for RR's head since day 2, average academic reputation, has to compete with the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, and other real recruiting powerhouses for recruits, spotty college football history..etc. etc. I see folks are looking for a scape goat and I guess RR can be that for you. I'll choose differently. BearDown and I'll see you at homecoming.

I have not seen anyone suggest that... people have said he is not a very good recruiter. And history suggests he is average at best.

I am not sure why that hurts anyone's feelings.

Parents: "We are disappointed with your 2.0 GPA, We think you are capable of much more"

Kid: "My parents are bitching because I am not class valedictorian when neither one of them were, and I got THEIR gene pool!".

Hey, they are OKGs! Too small, too slow, but have huge hearts!

That's why RichRod needs a gimmicky offense and defense to win.

But have to give him credit for letting Yates finally having a free hand in the defense. Still sucks on 3rd downs, and gives up a ton of points, but from the eyeball test, they look better.

And HOLY SHIT!!! Yates has them in double digit rankings, 91st. http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/ ... team/22/p2" target="_blank

First time they haven't been in the triple digit rankings for quite some time.

UALoco wrote:Yep, RR is entirely to blame for Arizona not being a recruiting powerhouse. Don't worry that we've never really been a recruiting powerhouse, have lacking facilities, pathetic fan base who have been calling for RR's head since day 2, average academic reputation, has to compete with the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, and other real recruiting powerhouses for recruits, spotty college football history..etc. etc. I see folks are looking for a scape goat and I guess RR can be that for you. I'll choose differently. BearDown and I'll see you at homecoming.

A #GoodFan speaks. Cheers!

Merkin wrote:Hey, they are OKGs! Too small, too slow, but have huge hearts!

That's why RichRod needs a gimmicky offense and defense to win.

But have to give him credit for letting Yates finally having a free hand in the defense. Still sucks on 3rd downs, and gives up a ton of points, but from the eyeball test, they look better.

And HOLY SHIT!!! Yates has them in double digit rankings, 91st. http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/ ... team/22/p2" target="_blank

First time they haven't been in the triple digit rankings for quite some time.

Incremental improvement. All we can ask for. They aren't going to be top 20 over night. If Gates can get the D into the 50's next season, I would be happy.

Maybe it's the opposite between football and basketball and we can't afford the top recruits... lol

wyo-cat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Hey, they are OKGs! Too small, too slow, but have huge hearts!

That's why RichRod needs a gimmicky offense and defense to win.

But have to give him credit for letting Yates finally having a free hand in the defense. Still sucks on 3rd downs, and gives up a ton of points, but from the eyeball test, they look better.

And HOLY SHIT!!! Yates has them in double digit rankings, 91st. http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/ ... team/22/p2" target="_blank

First time they haven't been in the triple digit rankings for quite some time.

Incremental improvement. All we can ask for. They aren't going to be top 20 over night. If Gates can get the D into the 50's next season, I would be happy.

Would be a record under RR for total defense:

2012-122nd
2013-63rd
2014-105th
2015-115th
2016-115th
2017-91st

scumdevils86 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

That's about what you'd expect for Arizona. It's slightly below middle of the pack in terms of number of P5 schools. That's about where we are in terms of our recruiting resources, maybe even a little higher.

which is exactly what doubters like myself are saying...if you recruit like "what you'd expect" then of course we are consistently bad to mediocre... why is that hard to understand?

The counter is that RR is doing things right. He's been to bowl games all but one year and is on pace for a bowl this year. Recruiting could absolutely do better, but again, this is an issue about what the replacement is.

With RR, you get a good coach and someone who's been average in recruiting. If you replace him, you prpbably downgrade in coaching. Are you guaranteed an upgrade in recruiting? That's why I said every new hire looks like Saban until he has to do the job.

Is it better to retain a good coach and hope he can upgrade recruiting or bring in someone new who might be better or worse? You retain a coach in part due to options.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

azgreg wrote:Using Rivals starting with the 2013 class AZ has ranked 37th, 28th, 41st, 51st, 37th, and currently 59th in recruiting. Rather unremarkable as a whole.

That's about what you'd expect for Arizona. It's slightly below middle of the pack in terms of number of P5 schools. That's about where we are in terms of our recruiting resources, maybe even a little higher.

which is exactly what doubters like myself are saying...if you recruit like "what you'd expect" then of course we are consistently bad to mediocre... why is that hard to understand?

The counter is that RR is doing things right. He's been to bowl games all but one year and is on pace for a bowl this year. Recruiting could absolutely do better, but again, this is an issue about what the replacement is.

With RR, you get a good coach and someone who's been average in recruiting. If you replace him, you prpbably downgrade in coaching. Are you guaranteed an upgrade in recruiting? That's why I said every new hire looks like Saban until he has to do the job.

Is it better to retain a good coach and hope he can upgrade recruiting or bring in someone new who might be better or worse? You retain a coach in part due to options.

Yeah the only chance at possibly a better coach, is an up and comer. But again that is a huge risk/reward. He either doesn't pan out and were back to the dumps for 4/5 years, or he elevates the program and most likely bolts for a new job. Either way were back to the vicious risk/reward up and comer cycle like Iowa State is stuck in (I think Matt Campbell gets poached this season).

Edit: Houston hit gold with Briles Sumlin and Herman (and possibly Applewhite), but had Levine in between

Merkin wrote:Hey, they are OKGs! Too small, too slow, but have huge hearts!

That's why RichRod needs a gimmicky offense and defense to win.

But have to give him credit for letting Yates finally having a free hand in the defense. Still sucks on 3rd downs, and gives up a ton of points, but from the eyeball test, they look better.

And HOLY SHIT!!! Yates has them in double digit rankings, 91st. http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/ ... team/22/p2" target="_blank

First time they haven't been in the triple digit rankings for quite some time.

What if U of A were ranked 54th in the nation in defense? What would you say to that?

scumdevils86 wrote:

UALoco wrote:Yep, RR is entirely to blame for Arizona not being a recruiting powerhouse. Don't worry that we've never really been a recruiting powerhouse, have lacking facilities, pathetic fan base who have been calling for RR's head since day 2, average academic reputation, has to compete with the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, and other real recruiting powerhouses for recruits, spotty college football history..etc. etc. I see folks are looking for a scape goat and I guess RR can be that for you. I'll choose differently. BearDown and I'll see you at homecoming.

yawn. RR for life. coach of the year. the new bear bryant. etc. etc.

double yawn, Arizona..the Tuscaloosa of the West...if it wasn't for RR. (never said RR was the next coming..just trying to provide another perspective.)

btfd16 wrote:Maybe it's the opposite between football and basketball and we can't afford the top recruits... lol

Yep, at least RR hasn't put the program in jeopardy. Not saying that Miller has but the buck stops there.

PHXCATS wrote:

Merkin wrote:Hey, they are OKGs! Too small, too slow, but have huge hearts!

That's why RichRod needs a gimmicky offense and defense to win.

But have to give him credit for letting Yates finally having a free hand in the defense. Still sucks on 3rd downs, and gives up a ton of points, but from the eyeball test, they look better.

And HOLY SHIT!!! Yates has them in double digit rankings, 91st. http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/ ... team/22/p2" target="_blank

First time they haven't been in the triple digit rankings for quite some time.

What if U of A were ranked 54th in the nation in defense? What would you say to that?

Utah's defense is ranked #32..you could be them!

3 star Schooler U of A best offer he had, PAC-12 DPOW
3 star Tony Fields few comparable offers, playing very well
3 star Bryce Wolma few comparable offers, playing very well
3 star Scottie Young few comparable offers, playing very well

These are the types of guys that lots of people complained about. Not saying RR does not need to get some better athletes and players here to win a PAC-12 title but I think some credit is due for finding guys no one else wants and making them be good successful football players on the PAC-12 stage.

UALoco wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:

UALoco wrote:Yep, RR is entirely to blame for Arizona not being a recruiting powerhouse. Don't worry that we've never really been a recruiting powerhouse, have lacking facilities, pathetic fan base who have been calling for RR's head since day 2, average academic reputation, has to compete with the likes of USC, UCLA, Oregon, and other real recruiting powerhouses for recruits, spotty college football history..etc. etc. I see folks are looking for a scape goat and I guess RR can be that for you. I'll choose differently. BearDown and I'll see you at homecoming.

yawn. RR for life. coach of the year. the new bear bryant. etc. etc.

double yawn, Arizona..the Tuscaloosa of the West...if it wasn't for RR. (never said RR was the next coming..just trying to provide another perspective.)

Harbaugh, Saban, Dabo, Meyer etc. All of them would recruit well at Arizona but not as well as they do with their current schools.

Throw whatever it takes to get Bob Stoops here!

5th highest paid coach in college ball not showing 5th highest paid results.

Only reason he is paid so high is the booster gift retention bonus.

Here is more reason for a little more patience with RR and why this year could be transformative.

Excerpt from Michael Luke at the other board

The one aspect that is still lacking is interior size up front and if the Arizona coaches have their way Wesson (Miss.) Copiah-Lincoln Community College defensive tackle Jonathan Lolohea will be a big part of next year’s defense.

The former Kansas Jayhawk commit is looking closely at Arizona as well.

“They’ve really taken off these past couple weeks,” Lolohea said. “They’ve been getting highlights on ESPN and the quarterback is just going crazy. It’s been really fun to watch.”

Arizona’s recruiting pitch is what stands out to Lolohea.

“They play a lot of young guys,” he said. “A lot of young guys and they are good. I would be going to place where I know I could play really quickly, but also I can grow with those players. The coaches are really excited about the future and I can see why.”

Merkin wrote:5th highest paid coach in college ball not showing 5th highest paid results.

Retention Bonus.

Would 54th in defense be acceptable to you?

No machina. we have to be 1st. in everything. all the time.

Who cares where the money comes from? None of it is tax dollars.

Up and coming successful head coaches will see that too, and decide maybe UA is a destination after all.

Sadly, the South Carolinas in the football world will see that, and say, "we can't even match that".

He's not going to be making that sort of money next year. Retention bonuses kicking in nothing more nothing less.

Merkin wrote:Who cares where the money comes from? None of it is tax dollars.

Up and coming successful head coaches will see that too, and decide maybe UA is a destination after all.

Sadly, the South Carolinas in the football world will see that, and say, "we can't even match that".

It is only the retention bonus that is making him the "5th highest paid coach" this year. So don't go around complaining about not getting "5th highest paid coach" results because it is a bonus that a private person gave for him, not the AD or anyone in it besides facilitating the deal, and if it was spread out over time he would not be the "5th highest paid coach"

Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

SD86 whenever I address anyone not him

homer fan base's dream seasons:

2017 7-6
2018 6-7
2019 7-6
2020 6-7
2021 7-6
2022 6-7
on and on and on...

Retention bonus or not, RR is not worth being a top 10 paid coach. That’s was some bad dealing by who ever put that package together.

And the fact RR has had a decent recruiting class last year doesn’t mean he suddenly will knock recruiting out of the park. This could be an outlier with another 4 years of terrible recruiting...

scumdevils86 wrote:homer fan base's dream seasons:

2017 7-6
2018 6-7
2019 7-6
2020 6-7
2021 7-6
2022 6-7
on and on and on...

Don't worry. He won't be here that long.

Would love to hear scums list of who he wants to replace RR who U of A could actually get.

Pete Carroll, Bear Bryant, Mack Brown, Frank Beamer, Bobby Bowden, and Tom Osborne. No particular order.

scumdevils86 wrote:Pete Carroll, Bear Bryant, Mack Brown, Frank Beamer, Bobby Bowden, and Tom Osborne. No particular order.

Of course

i hope the gifs are good ones

PHXCATS wrote:Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

Not a math major are you?

129 teams in Div I.

Top third puts it about 42nd.

In answer to your question, any UA FB fan would be ecstatic to be in the top 50% or so, since RichRod's offenses usually top 20, right now at #7.

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

Not a math major are you?

129 teams in Div I.

Top third puts it about 42nd.

In answer to your question, any UA FB fan would be ecstatic to be in the top 50% or so, since RichRod's offenses usually top 20, right now at #7.

Thanks for checking the math. I had 149 teams in my calculation for some reason. Top 42% then.

But just so you know, on a per play basis, U of A is 54th in defense.

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

Not a math major are you?

129 teams in Div I.

Top third puts it about 42nd.

In answer to your question, any UA FB fan would be ecstatic to be in the top 50% or so, since RichRod's offenses usually top 20, right now at #7.

With RR's offense, a D in the 50's would make me very happy. I can see it next year when the Fr get a year under their belts.

wyo-cat wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

Not a math major are you?

129 teams in Div I.

Top third puts it about 42nd.

In answer to your question, any UA FB fan would be ecstatic to be in the top 50% or so, since RichRod's offenses usually top 20, right now at #7.

With RR's offense, a D in the 50's would make me very happy. I can see it next year when the Fr get a year under their belts.

Slow the game down and it would be the case right now

scumdevils86 wrote:homer fan base's dream seasons:

2017 7-6
2018 6-7
2019 7-6
2020 6-7
2021 7-6
2022 6-7
on and on and on...

Would you be happy with every 5 years:

1 NY6/Possible playoff shot
2 above average years
1 average year
1 bad year

PHXCATS wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

Not a math major are you?

129 teams in Div I.

Top third puts it about 42nd.

In answer to your question, any UA FB fan would be ecstatic to be in the top 50% or so, since RichRod's offenses usually top 20, right now at #7.

With RR's offense, a D in the 50's would make me very happy. I can see it next year when the Fr get a year under their belts.

Slow the game down and it would be the case right now

Now that is more accurate than people might think. Not sure if anyone has studied the yards given up from play 1-60 vs 61-90 That is why they use tempo offenses and with our offense scoring more and faster our defense has been on the field too much. We keep hearing RR harping on 3 and outs and we hear back noise on Yates wanting RR's offense to consume more clock. I don't think Yates is always happy our offense makes his defense and him look bad stat wise but it is what it is

azcat49 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Also, I am still looking for an answer from you if 54th in defense is acceptable to you, right at the cut off for top 1/3rd.

Not a math major are you?

129 teams in Div I.

Top third puts it about 42nd.

In answer to your question, any UA FB fan would be ecstatic to be in the top 50% or so, since RichRod's offenses usually top 20, right now at #7.

With RR's offense, a D in the 50's would make me very happy. I can see it next year when the Fr get a year under their belts.

Slow the game down and it would be the case right now

Now that is more accurate than people might think. Not sure if anyone has studied the yards given up from play 1-60 vs 61-90 That is why they use tempo offenses and with our offense scoring more and faster our defense has been on the field too much. We keep hearing RR harping on 3 and outs and we hear back noise on Yates wanting RR's offense to consume more clock. I don't think Yates is always happy our offense makes his defense and him look bad stat wise but it is what it is

Too much effort to put together but I have noticed that the defense has been playing well early in the game then gives up long drives after quick scoring plays in the 2nd half. Depth is an issue with that but I think if U of A was taking longer to score in the 2nd half then the defense would be performing better stats wise. And still with that 54th on a per play basis isnt bad