Bear Down Wildcats

Newportcat wrote:Got it, so I win!

I’m actually genuinely happy for you.

How about Dave DeGuglielmo for OL coach? Seems like he needs employment after the Colts

Chicat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Got it, so I win!

I’m actually genuinely happy for you.

Thank you! Now lets quit the debating and get back to our bromance. When Arizona finally makes a Rose Bowl with the hot young up and coming coach who stole all those Socal kids right from underneath those USC and UCLA coaches and coached them up like you would not believe, I will enjoy drinking beers while you say "Newport, I agree, screw the retreads!"

Chicat you shouldn’t have taken the bait.

I thought about responding a few weeks back or whenever that was, to Newport’s dick measuring contest. And then I thought...what’s the point. My reasons why I think Sumlin could be successful (note could be, and not will be)....are the very same reasons that I thought he could be successful here one year ago when he was hired. Oh and by the way, these are all the same reasons that Newport, one year ago....thought that this was a hire that ‘could’ work. What is the point of listing them, only difference is that I still 1 year later believe those things that we both thought a year ago...’could’ work here. And he doesn’t. No harm no foul.

But there is seriously no point in debating with narcissists....it’s a pointless endeavor. (Cue the ‘i’ve provided factual statistics backing up my stance and you are too afraid to’ take). Newport reminds me of the new guy in my office. He’s the smug self absorbed short guy who thinks he knows everything there is to know about not only the sales profession....but music, sports, literature and western civilization. In other words, this guy is a total self absorbed douche who is completely unaware of how he comes off and how everyone in the office tries to avoid getting stuck in a conversation with him at all costs.

But Newport like you I do despise Trump. Maybe we could have one of these bromances you’re so fond of and just stick to politics.

HaCats wrote:Chicat you shouldn’t have taken the bait.

I thought about responding a few weeks back or whenever that was, to Newport’s dick measuring contest. And then I thought...what’s the point. My reasons why I think Sumlin could be successful (note could be, and not will be)....are the very same reasons that I thought he could be successful here one year ago when he was hired. Oh and by the way, these are all the same reasons that Newport, one year ago....thought that this was a hire that ‘could’ work. What is the point of listing them, only difference is that I still 1 year later believe those things that we both thought a year ago...’could’ work here. And he doesn’t. No harm no foul.

But there is seriously no point in debating with narcissists....it’s a pointless endeavor. (Cue the ‘i’ve provided factual statistics backing up my stance and you are too afraid to’ take). Newport reminds me of the new guy in my office. He’s the smug self absorbed short guy who thinks he knows everything there is to know about not only the sales profession....but music, sports, literature and western civilization. In other words, this guy is a total self absorbed douche who is completely unaware of how he comes off and how everyone in the office tries to avoid getting stuck in a conversation with him at all costs.

Taken the bait? This is a thread about Kevin Sumlin. I asked a simple question for why you think Sumlin could be successful after his first year was over. To me a reasonable question again on a message board thread that is entitled Coach sumlin. You didn’t answer it.

Yes I thought it might work but then the season came and my initial fears of hiring a retread came straight into view. Then I did some more research and looked up the facts on retreads and was frankly shocked at how little success they have. I also read how terrible our coaching wa during the season. I was very stupid for thinking there was a decent chance it could work. I am not sure narcassists ever admit they are wrong but I was wrong on Sumlin for sure. I think was swept up in us finally hiring someone who I thought was an amazing recruiter with great ties to Texas and Arizona. I also forgot about how little money Arizona has to hire a staff. I also thought herm Edward would be awful and candidly I think that could turn out ok now. I was wrong again.

Narcissist is a new one for me. Been called everything else in the book by optimistic Arizona football fans as mentioned before. Jackass, fairweather, loser, asu fan, Newport pussy etc. now narcissist.

What I always find fasnicating about people like you hacat is you call me these names yet you come across like such an asshole. Basically a self absorbed douche who can’t admit when they are wrong. Can’t just say yes I realize its not smart to be optimistic about Arizona football or Kevin Sumlin but I choose to be it anyways. Why is that so hard to say. So what you do is you attack. Make massively wrong assumptions. Just like trump. You attack to make yourself think I am the asshole. Because if I am just an asshole then that’s the problem and you can go on living in Fantasy world. I’m sorry to burst your bubble About Arizona football, the truth and facts are not kind to it.

By the way I am 6’3 too and you are the first person to ever call me smug. I am only an expert on commercial real estate and college football. Everything else I am no expert

And again I am still waiting for you to make your case for why Sumlin could be successful now that you have seen his first year and two days.

And by the way if you just said I can’t but I am still going to be optimistic, I would have zero issue with it.

Well, there’s a first time for everything. If you’re actually anything like your message board persona, I promise you that many people have thought it when having to listen to you.

Also love in your mind how Herm is some smashing success. I live in the PHX area and have to listen to this same narrative and it get’s tiring. He went 7-6 with a Senior QB and N’Keal Harry. Can we see what he does in the next couple of years before we anoint him the Pac 12’s version of Saban. Christ almighty, I need an actual sample size before I can make 99.99% conclusions like you.

Past performance equals future success

HaCats wrote:Well, there’s a first time for everything. If you’re actually anything like your message board persona, I promise you that many people have thought it when having to listen to you.

What’s sad is you honestly think I am the douchebag here.

But I will keep waiting while you attack me to lay out a compelling case for why Sumlin will be successful here based on logic and evidence

Again, zero issues if you said I don’t have one but I am going to be optimistic anyways. Very reasonable take for someone who graduated from U of A to be a fan or optimistic regardless for what the evidence shows. if you said that I would shut the fuck up on this topic.

HaCats wrote:Also love in your mind how Herm is some smashing success. I live in the PHX area and have to listen to this same narrative and it get’s tiring. He went 7-6 with a Senior QB and N’Keal Harry. Can we see what he does in the next couple of years before we anoint him the Pac 12’s version of Saban. Christ almighty, I need an actual sample size before I can make 99.99% conclusions like you.

Now you are just a liar too. Really sad

I say I think herm was going to be a total failure and now think it could work out ok somehow means he is the next nick saban for the PAC 12. Really. How large are your insecurities? I admit when I am wrong in life. Happens a lot. You just attack others rather then accept reality. Your right to do so but just sad to me

And I don’t disagree let’s see what he does but again I can lay out a scenario for why Herm could maybe work out ok given his first year, first two recruiting classes, etc. Which I think the reasonable fans here would agree with

No reason to start calling each other names. Or at least be creatively insulting.

You called me a middle schooler...how is that creatively insulting?

I at least thought me calling you a trump supporter was creative given I know how much you just love him. How when he lies I mean speaks you just can’t wait to yell #maga

And I see no reason for name calling either. I just was done with this topic until hacats just had to come in and blab and name call and of course make zero logical sense or a case or answer my original question

Newportcat wrote:First off hacats started it

Secondly you called me a middle schooler...how is that creatively insulting?

+1 for the self-deprecating irony. Well done..

Newportcat wrote:I asked a simple question for why you think Sumlin could be successful after his first year was over. To me a reasonable question again on a message board thread that is entitled Coach sumlin. You didn’t answer it.

uh....

HaCats wrote:My reasons why I think Sumlin could be successful (note could be, and not will be)....are the very same reasons that I thought he could be successful here one year ago when he was hired.

Oh look, it was answered, now everyone can move on.

....

on a separate note: hey people don't make me have to start editing posts. please. i hate doing it. this thread is starting to feel like it needs it. so, just stop, ok people. thanks in advance

Wasn’t really answered but it’s totally fine as I have zero idea why he liked Sumlin in the first place but I can totally move on. Actually I probably won’t so again this is a thread on Kevin Sumlin. If you bring opinions on him, come correct or Johnny negative Newport is coming after you

And yes I just talked about myself in the third person...it’s just the narcissist in me

What's the tldr on this thread? Newport having a mental breakdown?

Nope, other people having breakdowns thinking Sumlin will work out well for us at this point yet providing no logic or reason to back it up

He is a has been never will be coach just like Mackovic or rich Rod. You can’t win at A&M, zero chance you succeed at Arizona. Especially given all the issues our program has structurally.

There you go chi, I went to zero percent!

Newport - you should join the circus and set up a tent since you have such an absolute approach to predicting the future. Chrystal balls be damned!

The point is this is Arizona football - we are not SC, ND or pick your SEC school. There is a limited coaching pool we will always be able to draw from. Trying to provide evidence one type of coach will work out vs. another is silly because every school and every period of time when a team is looking for a new coach is different (i.e. who is available).

RRod had to go. We can all agree on that right?
So who from the pool was available? Not many I would say and Sumlin certainly had enough on his resume to qualifyas an AZ hire.

So was his first year good? Absolutely not - but it could have been worse. There are some troubling signs for sure especially with his handling of Tate. But let's see what the man can do in the next couple of seasons when he really has time to settle in and get a few of his recruiting classes in.

There is really no other choice so not sure what point you are trying to make other than the fact you have no impirical evidence to show Sumlin will be successful which in the grand scheme means absolutely zilch.

You have a 50% chance of being right and a 50% chance of being wrong. That I do know.

Newportcat wrote:can’t win at A&M

51-26

Never had a losing overall record.

+.500 overall record in the SEC.

3-2 in bowl games.


But please go on about how Sumlin couldn’t win at aTm....

His last year he finished 7&6 against the 41st best schedule in the country

And was fired

Then Jimbo took basically the same team and went 9&4 against the 5th hardest schedule in the country including coming the closest out of anyone beating Clemson

So that means it’s clear now he was fired for good reasons. He could not win at A&M with unreal resources. He also let a heisman trophy winner transfer out of his program.

After his first year he was slightly above average being the only SEC program in Texas

And most importantly he took a 7&6 team with 17 returning starters and took us to a 5&7 record against pretty terrible competition.

Fuck what he did at A&M, he was 18th out of 20 for new coaches at Arizona. Based on everything I have read our team was poorly coached in many areas. Michael Lev gave him a D average for the year basically. What he did at A&M means nothing now. He has been a shit coach so far at Arizona

EastCoastCat wrote:Newport - you should join the circus and set up a tent since you have such an absolute approach to predicting the future. Chrystal balls be damned!

The point is this is Arizona football - we are not SC, ND or pick your SEC school. There is a limited coaching pool we will always be able to draw from. Trying to provide evidence one type of coach will work out vs. another is silly because every school and every period of time when a team is looking for a new coach is different (i.e. who is available).

RRod had to go. We can all agree on that right?
So who from the pool was available? Not many I would say and Sumlin certainly had enough on his resume to qualifyas an AZ hire.

So was his first year good? Absolutely not - but it could have been worse. There are some troubling signs for sure especially with his handling of Tate. But let's see what the man can do in the next couple of seasons when he really has time to settle in and get a few of his recruiting classes in.

There is really no other choice so not sure what point you are trying to make other than the fact you have no impirical evidence to show Sumlin will be successful which in the grand scheme means absolutely zilch.

You have a 50% chance of being right and a 50% chance of being wrong. That I do know.

I do have a crystal ball when it comes to retread coaches taking inferior jobs. It’s called history

Again no coach in the history of college football has ever been fired from a power 5 job, taken an inferior job, and won a single conference title. Not a single title. Ever. Rich Rod was one of the best ever retreads at Arizona.

Arizona is basically fucked for football but when we have been good or call it consistently above average it was with Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Jim Young. None of whom were retreads.

Now rich Rod was a massive piece of shit as a person. So good he was fired

But we could have hired Neal brown from Troy or Ken from navy who is who Tomey wanted. All with much much lower buyouts and better contracts for us.

Now the program is fucked because we hired a coach we can’t fire for at least three years because he was a name coach. That same name coach who is now filthy rich and sitting on another awesome buyout contract. What is his motivation to succeed. Especially when Arizona won’t pony up $500k to fire the DC like he wanted. So we have a retread with zero control over his program and a low assistant salary pool. And he just lost his two best assistants who left so fast at better jobs it could make your head spin.

Also how could have last year been worse. We lost to BYU, was destroyed but houston, and had the most heart breaking loss in maybe our programs history to ASU and don’t make a bowl game.

You think there is a 50% chance Sumlin takes us a rose bowl?

How much you want to bet?

I do know the players felt like it was going to be a lot different than it actually was. That was a comment I heard from someone in the know but I never got the opportunity to ask in what area.

Like his recruiting of JUCO guys as I feel for AZ to win at a high lever gag we need those guys (see Tomey years). I am excited to see how we do next year and after the purge of players who needed to move either because of a lack of talent or a disruption to the program. Hopefully everyone gets on the same page

Remember folks, Newport is done with football. Keep that in mind the next time you see a 300 word diatribe from him on the subject that veers between proving Sumlin is the recruiter we all wanted and trying to convince you that wins and losses don’t actually matter.

Chicat wrote:Remember folks, Newport is done with football. Keep that in mind the next time you see a 300 word diatribe from him on the subject that veers between proving Sumlin is the recruiter we all wanted and trying to convince you that wins and losses don’t actually matter.

Remember folks, Chicat will always bring up the fact I hate football as a sport whenever I make good points and he chooses not to address them. Wins and losses matter. That’s why a Sumlin was fired from A&M and ultimately why he will be fired from Arizona. He has zero chance of ever even coming close to taking Arizona to a rose bowl. And anyone who knows anything about college football and how it works would agree with that statement. I will bet anyone any amount of money you want that Sumlin never takes Arizona to a rose bowl/Pac 12 championship.

And yes I hate football and if Arizona canceled our program I wouldn’t give two shits as it probably means women on our campus are safer and less athletes/alums are going into the world with debilitiating brain injuries that show up later in life but until that happens, I will enjoy bantering here especially with optimistic Arizona football fans. I just have never seen a group of people who can be so irrational to the truth

Newportcat wrote:

Chicat wrote:Remember folks, Newport is done with football. Keep that in mind the next time you see a 300 word diatribe from him on the subject that veers between proving Sumlin is the recruiter we all wanted and trying to convince you that wins and losses don’t actually matter.

Remember folks, Chicat will always bring up the fact I hate football as a sport whenever I make good points and he chooses not to address them. Wins and losses matter. That’s why a Sumlin was fired from A&M and ultimately why he will be fired from Arizona. He has zero chance of ever even coming close to taking Arizona to a rose bowl. And anyone who knows anything about college football and how it works would agree with that statement. I will bet anyone any amount of money you want that Sumlin never takes Arizona to a rose bowl/Pac 12 championship.

And yes I hate football and if Arizona canceled our program I wouldn’t give two shits as it probably means women on our campus are safer and less athletes/alums are going into the world with debilitiating brain injuries that show up later in life but until that happens, I will enjoy bantering here especially with optimistic Arizona football fans. I just have never seen a group of people who can be so irrational to the truth

Sumlin was fired because he did not meet the lofty, and I would say jaded, expectations of A&M. You are correct - he did not win every game at A&M so he was fired.

But Arizona football would take his A&M record every day and twice on Sunday. THE EXPECTATIONS ARE NOT THE SAME.

As for betting whether Sumlin takes us to the Rose Bowl that is rich since no coach has since we joined the damn conference. I say he has as much of a chance, probably more, than some coach from Army that has no experience recruiting at this level.

You say we are irrational to the truth and honestly I have no idea what that means considering he's been at AZ for just 1 fucking year. Maybe the truth in your eyes means having to agree with you. You must have knocked them dead in debate class...geez.

The talking in absolutes is what gets me. The same "going to fail" statements could be said about every coach at AZ in the past. Pretty easy to be right when you say Arizona will not make the Rose Bowl.

EastCoastCat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:

Chicat wrote:Remember folks, Newport is done with football. Keep that in mind the next time you see a 300 word diatribe from him on the subject that veers between proving Sumlin is the recruiter we all wanted and trying to convince you that wins and losses don’t actually matter.

Remember folks, Chicat will always bring up the fact I hate football as a sport whenever I make good points and he chooses not to address them. Wins and losses matter. That’s why a Sumlin was fired from A&M and ultimately why he will be fired from Arizona. He has zero chance of ever even coming close to taking Arizona to a rose bowl. And anyone who knows anything about college football and how it works would agree with that statement. I will bet anyone any amount of money you want that Sumlin never takes Arizona to a rose bowl/Pac 12 championship.

And yes I hate football and if Arizona canceled our program I wouldn’t give two shits as it probably means women on our campus are safer and less athletes/alums are going into the world with debilitiating brain injuries that show up later in life but until that happens, I will enjoy bantering here especially with optimistic Arizona football fans. I just have never seen a group of people who can be so irrational to the truth

Sumlin was fired because he did not meet the lofty, and I would say jaded, expectations of A&M. You are correct - he did not win every game at A&M so he was fired.

But Arizona football would take his A&M record every day and twice on Sunday. THE EXPECTATIONS ARE NOT THE SAME.

As for betting whether Sumlin takes us to the Rose Bowl that is rich since no coach has since we joined the damn conference. I say he has as much of a chance, probably more, than some coach from Army that has no experience recruiting at this level.

You say we are irrational to the truth and honestly I have no idea what that means considering he's been at AZ for just 1 fucking year. Maybe the truth in your eyes means having to agree with you. You must have knocked them dead in debate class...geez.

Why are A&M goals too lofty? Their program generates the most revenue out of any football program in the country? It is in Texas and the only school in Texas to be in the SEC or best conference for football by far? They just spent $700M on their football facilities. They have unreal fan support, etc.

That narrative from last year even made me believe Sumlin would be successful at Arizona given I thought A&M was being unrealistic. But then last year happened and our coaching was poor AND more importantly Jimbo took over A&M and did MUCH better then Sumlin did with basically the same players. He won 2 more games, almost beat Clemson, and against the 5th hardest schedule in the Country compared to the 41st in 2017 under Sumlin. He finished in the Top 25 which Sumlin had not done since 2013. He also recruited better then Sumlin ever did.

So that narrative about A&M is just wrong. He was fired and not one single A&M fan would ever want him back. He was rightfully fired because the next guy came in and did much better then him.

Would anyone here say now, today, A&M was wrong to fire Sumlin?

Arizona would take his record but sadly Arizona makes $90M a year less in football revenues. So to think he can duplicate his same level of success from A&M at Arizona is insanity.

The truth is this, Retreads have Never worked out in College football when they went to lesser programs. I could be wrong that he does not work out. I could be. But it is so very doubtful. I see no way it happens.

And outside of just giving the guy a chance, no one has articulated why he can be successful at Arizona given our programs structural issues. So that means to believe he could be successful means you are betting on Arizona football overcoming Historical trends and basically having a miracle. Yeah, miracles and Arizona football certainly go hand in hand.

Only way Arizona ever makes a Rose Bowl is if they hire a young up and coming coach who they take a risk on giving them their first Power 5 head coaching job. There is precedent at other schools like Arizona having success doing it this way. Actually lots of case like this. The closest we came to making a Rose Bowl was under Dick Tomey. Candidly if UCLA does not mess up that Miami game we are in. if Larry Smith had stayed at Arizona, I believe he would have made one as well. Stoops got close too in 2009. Now you could say Rich Rod got close but 2014 PAC 12 Championship game showed we were no where near close or deserved to make it. And Smith, Tomey, and Stoops were not retreads.

I FUCKING LOVE THIS THREAD!

I feel less intelligent even attempting to read this drivel

I always feel a lot less intelligent reading anything lately from an optimistic Arizona football fan.

Newportcat wrote:I always feel a lot less intelligent reading anything from an optimistic Arizona football fan

Your starting to sound like Charlie Browns teacher

Newportcat wrote:I always feel a lot less intelligent reading anything lately from an optimistic Arizona football fan.

And even though you’ve given up on the sport altogether, here you are.

whatisee wrote:

Newportcat wrote:I always feel a lot less intelligent reading anything from an optimistic Arizona football fan

Your starting to sound like Charlie Browns teacher

Starting, I have been negative on arizona football for a very long time given the program keeps expecting miracles by trying to buck national trends in hiring these retread coaches. Just so beyond stupid

Thankfully we don’t make the same mistake with any of our other sports like soccer, swimming, tennis, baseball, men’s and women’s basketball, golf, etc. we would be really fucked then

Blind faith and I don’t mix well

Chicat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:I always feel a lot less intelligent reading anything lately from an optimistic Arizona football fan.

And even though you’ve given up on the sport altogether, here you are.

Yep, I am also atheist but love getting into debates on religion. Go figure right

The roof is almost complete on that motherfucker! Practicing football in air conditioning, what a long wait it has been.

Awesome!

Newportcat wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Newportcat wrote:I always feel a lot less intelligent reading anything from an optimistic Arizona football fan

Your starting to sound like Charlie Browns teacher

Starting, I have been negative on arizona football for a very long time given the program keeps expecting miracles by trying to buck national trends in hiring these retread coaches. Just so beyond stupid

Thankfully we don’t make the same mistake with any of our other sports like soccer, swimming, tennis, baseball, men’s and women’s basketball, golf, etc. we would be really fucked then

Blind faith and I don’t mix well

Yes...i and everyone else on this board knows how miserable you are.

Miserable? Really

You think I am miserable?

Attack the topic not the people. I wish more people would do that here.

I am not saying Arizona football can not ever be successful. It can if it approached hiring decisions like our other sports recognizing we can not over pay for head coaches outside of Men's Basketball so we need to focus on getting quality younger coaches who view Arizona as a step up not a step down. Who are on the upward parts of their career not downwards. Who are hungry for success and can overcome structural issues we have as a program against our PAC 12 and National competition. The list here is endless of coaches who have worked out well including recently along this strategy Jay Johnson, Adia Barnes, Tony Amato, Laura Ianello, Augie Busch, Clancy Shields etc. It has worked when we hired Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Mike Candrea and Dave Rubio and Sean Miller. Does that always work, no look at our last womens basketball coach. But its the right strategy for Arizona unless you can get a high level proven winner which seems so difficult for any sports outside of Men's Basketball in this day and age of the PAC 12 being so far behind in overall revenues.

Now, that type of coach might not sell tickets at first and generate as much initial interest but I think our fan base as a whole is smart enough now to recognize the fallacy of a retread and you will see a large drop in season and overall ticket sales this year after a bump from hiring Sumlin. I do not think a ton of fans walked out of the stadium after the ASU game and said, sign me up for that again!

If you think differently, you lack an understanding of college athletics and what works and does not work at a place like Arizona.

Kevin Sumlin in hindsight was an awful hire by Arizona. He will cost Arizona a lot of money and produce little substance just like Mackovic and just like Rich Rod. The chances of him overcoming that are so slim and I personally see no way it happens. Still no one has articulated a vision for why he still could.

Arizona in many sports is a very difficult job compared to our competition. So you need great coaching to overcome it especially in football where we have the 11th highest assistant coaching salary pool in the PAC 12, little in state talent, average facilities, no real tradition, average to poor fan support, terrible football weather etc. Kevin Sumlin is not a great coach and 2018 season should have proven that to anyone. Before anyone says he had a winning record at Texas A&M, remember Mackovic won 3 conference titles at Texas and had a winning record too. And again no retread has taken a worse job and won a single conference title in the history of college football

Fine if you think differently, but understand it’s not based on facts logic or reason but more faith and hope. And faith and hope are two things an Arizona football fan should always question

Newportcat wrote:Miserable? Really

You think I am miserable?

Attack the topic not the people. I wish more people would do that here.

I am not saying Arizona football can not ever be successful. It can if it approached hiring decisions like our other sports recognizing we can not over pay for head coaches outside of Men's Basketball so we need to focus on getting quality younger coaches who view Arizona as a step up not a step down. Who are on the upward parts of their career not downwards. Who are hungry for success and can overcome structural issues we have as a program against our PAC 12 and National competition. The list here is endless of coaches who have worked out well including recently along this strategy Jay Johnson, Adia Barnes, Tony Amato, Laura Ianello, Augie Busch, Clancy Shields etc. It has worked when we hired Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Mike Candrea and Dave Rubio and Sean Miller. Does that always work, no look at our last womens basketball coach. But its the right strategy for Arizona unless you can get a high level proven winner which seems so difficult for any sports outside of Men's Basketball in this day and age of the PAC 12 being so far behind in overall revenues.

Now, that type of coach might not sell tickets at first and generate as much initial interest but I think our fan base as a whole is smart enough now to recognize the fallacy of a retread and you will see a large drop in season and overall ticket sales this year after a bump from hiring Sumlin. I do not think a ton of fans walked out of the stadium after the ASU game and said, sign me up for that again!

If you think differently, you lack an understanding of college athletics and what works and does not work at a place like Arizona.

Kevin Sumlin in hindsight was an awful hire by Arizona. He will cost Arizona a lot of money and produce little substance just like Mackovic and just like Rich Rod. The chances of him overcoming that are so slim and I personally see no way it happens. Still no one has articulated a vision for why he still could.

Arizona in many sports is a very difficult job compared to our competition. So you need great coaching to overcome it especially in football where we have the 11th highest assistant coaching salary pool in the PAC 12, little in state talent, average facilities, no real tradition, average to poor fan support, terrible football weather etc. Kevin Sumlin is not a great coach and 2018 season should have proven that to anyone. Before anyone says he had a winning record at Texas A&M, remember Mackovic won 3 conference titles at Texas and had a winning record too. And again no retread has taken a worse job and won a single conference title in the history of college football

Fine if you think differently, but understand it’s not based on facts logic or reason but more faith and hope. And faith and hope are two things an Arizona football fan should always question

I personally echo numerous of the statements here. I don't think Mackovic is a good comparison though, but the Rich Rod one is dead on. Following one coaching hire with certain circumstances with another coaching hire with literally the same certain circumstances isn't exactly a recipe for success. I think Sumlin may have a real good year at Arizona if the stars align much like RR did, but ultimately I expect a very similar type of tenure with probably less wins. The Navy coach would've been the correct hire IMO. Oh well, maybe the next AD/Prez mix will make the correct hire when that time comes.

Newportcat wrote:Miserable? Really

You think I am miserable?

Attack the topic not the people. I wish more people would do that here.

I am not saying Arizona football can not ever be successful. It can if it approached hiring decisions like our other sports recognizing we can not over pay for head coaches outside of Men's Basketball so we need to focus on getting quality younger coaches who view Arizona as a step up not a step down. Who are on the upward parts of their career not downwards. Who are hungry for success and can overcome structural issues we have as a program against our PAC 12 and National competition. The list here is endless of coaches who have worked out well including recently along this strategy Jay Johnson, Adia Barnes, Tony Amato, Laura Ianello, Augie Busch, Clancy Shields etc. It has worked when we hired Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Mike Candrea and Dave Rubio and Sean Miller. Does that always work, no look at our last womens basketball coach. But its the right strategy for Arizona unless you can get a high level proven winner which seems so difficult for any sports outside of Men's Basketball in this day and age of the PAC 12 being so far behind in overall revenues.

Now, that type of coach might not sell tickets at first and generate as much initial interest but I think our fan base as a whole is smart enough now to recognize the fallacy of a retread and you will see a large drop in season and overall ticket sales this year after a bump from hiring Sumlin. I do not think a ton of fans walked out of the stadium after the ASU game and said, sign me up for that again!

If you think differently, you lack an understanding of college athletics and what works and does not work at a place like Arizona.

Kevin Sumlin in hindsight was an awful hire by Arizona. He will cost Arizona a lot of money and produce little substance just like Mackovic and just like Rich Rod. The chances of him overcoming that are so slim and I personally see no way it happens. Still no one has articulated a vision for why he still could.

Arizona in many sports is a very difficult job compared to our competition. So you need great coaching to overcome it especially in football where we have the 11th highest assistant coaching salary pool in the PAC 12, little in state talent, average facilities, no real tradition, average to poor fan support, terrible football weather etc. Kevin Sumlin is not a great coach and 2018 season should have proven that to anyone. Before anyone says he had a winning record at Texas A&M, remember Mackovic won 3 conference titles at Texas and had a winning record too. And again no retread has taken a worse job and won a single conference title in the history of college football

Fine if you think differently, but understand it’s not based on facts logic or reason but more faith and hope. And faith and hope are two things an Arizona football fan should always question

Erickson went from Miami to Oregon St and ASU and shared conference titles, and had considerable success, though had program turmoil, at ASU.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_ ... d_coaching" target="_blank

ramcat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Miserable? Really

You think I am miserable?

Attack the topic not the people. I wish more people would do that here.

I am not saying Arizona football can not ever be successful. It can if it approached hiring decisions like our other sports recognizing we can not over pay for head coaches outside of Men's Basketball so we need to focus on getting quality younger coaches who view Arizona as a step up not a step down. Who are on the upward parts of their career not downwards. Who are hungry for success and can overcome structural issues we have as a program against our PAC 12 and National competition. The list here is endless of coaches who have worked out well including recently along this strategy Jay Johnson, Adia Barnes, Tony Amato, Laura Ianello, Augie Busch, Clancy Shields etc. It has worked when we hired Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Mike Candrea and Dave Rubio and Sean Miller. Does that always work, no look at our last womens basketball coach. But its the right strategy for Arizona unless you can get a high level proven winner which seems so difficult for any sports outside of Men's Basketball in this day and age of the PAC 12 being so far behind in overall revenues.

Now, that type of coach might not sell tickets at first and generate as much initial interest but I think our fan base as a whole is smart enough now to recognize the fallacy of a retread and you will see a large drop in season and overall ticket sales this year after a bump from hiring Sumlin. I do not think a ton of fans walked out of the stadium after the ASU game and said, sign me up for that again!

If you think differently, you lack an understanding of college athletics and what works and does not work at a place like Arizona.

Kevin Sumlin in hindsight was an awful hire by Arizona. He will cost Arizona a lot of money and produce little substance just like Mackovic and just like Rich Rod. The chances of him overcoming that are so slim and I personally see no way it happens. Still no one has articulated a vision for why he still could.

Arizona in many sports is a very difficult job compared to our competition. So you need great coaching to overcome it especially in football where we have the 11th highest assistant coaching salary pool in the PAC 12, little in state talent, average facilities, no real tradition, average to poor fan support, terrible football weather etc. Kevin Sumlin is not a great coach and 2018 season should have proven that to anyone. Before anyone says he had a winning record at Texas A&M, remember Mackovic won 3 conference titles at Texas and had a winning record too. And again no retread has taken a worse job and won a single conference title in the history of college football

Fine if you think differently, but understand it’s not based on facts logic or reason but more faith and hope. And faith and hope are two things an Arizona football fan should always question

Erickson went from Miami to Oregon St and ASU and shared conference titles, and had considerable success, though had program turmoil, at ASU.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_ ... d_coaching" target="_blank

He went from Miami to the NFL back to Oregon State back to the NFL back to college. The definition of a retread is a guy who was at a much bigger school, failed, and next job was at a lesser school. The only college job he was fired from was his last one at ASU.

Get that, but not sure retread definition is so narrow. Failed and was fired with stint in NFL, all things being relative is as if he went to bigger program and had he stayed at Miami, most certainly would have been fired due rampant violations, probation and a failed program. Certainly, going in college from his last stint at Miami, with its tremondous stain, and descent as a program to "perennial cellar dweller" Oregon St, think could fit.
The success was dramatic, nearly appearing in BCS championship, and #4 ranking.
Seems definition primarily is failed and fired.

ChooChooCat wrote:

ramcat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Miserable? Really

You think I am miserable?

Attack the topic not the people. I wish more people would do that here.

I am not saying Arizona football can not ever be successful. It can if it approached hiring decisions like our other sports recognizing we can not over pay for head coaches outside of Men's Basketball so we need to focus on getting quality younger coaches who view Arizona as a step up not a step down. Who are on the upward parts of their career not downwards. Who are hungry for success and can overcome structural issues we have as a program against our PAC 12 and National competition. The list here is endless of coaches who have worked out well including recently along this strategy Jay Johnson, Adia Barnes, Tony Amato, Laura Ianello, Augie Busch, Clancy Shields etc. It has worked when we hired Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Mike Candrea and Dave Rubio and Sean Miller. Does that always work, no look at our last womens basketball coach. But its the right strategy for Arizona unless you can get a high level proven winner which seems so difficult for any sports outside of Men's Basketball in this day and age of the PAC 12 being so far behind in overall revenues.

Now, that type of coach might not sell tickets at first and generate as much initial interest but I think our fan base as a whole is smart enough now to recognize the fallacy of a retread and you will see a large drop in season and overall ticket sales this year after a bump from hiring Sumlin. I do not think a ton of fans walked out of the stadium after the ASU game and said, sign me up for that again!

If you think differently, you lack an understanding of college athletics and what works and does not work at a place like Arizona.

Kevin Sumlin in hindsight was an awful hire by Arizona. He will cost Arizona a lot of money and produce little substance just like Mackovic and just like Rich Rod. The chances of him overcoming that are so slim and I personally see no way it happens. Still no one has articulated a vision for why he still could.

Arizona in many sports is a very difficult job compared to our competition. So you need great coaching to overcome it especially in football where we have the 11th highest assistant coaching salary pool in the PAC 12, little in state talent, average facilities, no real tradition, average to poor fan support, terrible football weather etc. Kevin Sumlin is not a great coach and 2018 season should have proven that to anyone. Before anyone says he had a winning record at Texas A&M, remember Mackovic won 3 conference titles at Texas and had a winning record too. And again no retread has taken a worse job and won a single conference title in the history of college football

Fine if you think differently, but understand it’s not based on facts logic or reason but more faith and hope. And faith and hope are two things an Arizona football fan should always question

Erickson went from Miami to Oregon St and ASU and shared conference titles, and had considerable success, though had program turmoil, at ASU.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_ ... d_coaching" target="_blank

He went from Miami to the NFL back to Oregon State back to the NFL back to college. The definition of a retread is a guy who was at a much bigger school, failed, and next job was at a lesser school. The only college job he was fired from was his last one at ASU.

This piece actually lumps Erickson in with RR among others, as big time retread.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arizona.sb ... zona-state" target="_blank

ChooChooCat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Miserable? Really

You think I am miserable?

Attack the topic not the people. I wish more people would do that here.

I am not saying Arizona football can not ever be successful. It can if it approached hiring decisions like our other sports recognizing we can not over pay for head coaches outside of Men's Basketball so we need to focus on getting quality younger coaches who view Arizona as a step up not a step down. Who are on the upward parts of their career not downwards. Who are hungry for success and can overcome structural issues we have as a program against our PAC 12 and National competition. The list here is endless of coaches who have worked out well including recently along this strategy Jay Johnson, Adia Barnes, Tony Amato, Laura Ianello, Augie Busch, Clancy Shields etc. It has worked when we hired Larry Smith and Dick Tomey and Mike Candrea and Dave Rubio and Sean Miller. Does that always work, no look at our last womens basketball coach. But its the right strategy for Arizona unless you can get a high level proven winner which seems so difficult for any sports outside of Men's Basketball in this day and age of the PAC 12 being so far behind in overall revenues.

Now, that type of coach might not sell tickets at first and generate as much initial interest but I think our fan base as a whole is smart enough now to recognize the fallacy of a retread and you will see a large drop in season and overall ticket sales this year after a bump from hiring Sumlin. I do not think a ton of fans walked out of the stadium after the ASU game and said, sign me up for that again!

If you think differently, you lack an understanding of college athletics and what works and does not work at a place like Arizona.

Kevin Sumlin in hindsight was an awful hire by Arizona. He will cost Arizona a lot of money and produce little substance just like Mackovic and just like Rich Rod. The chances of him overcoming that are so slim and I personally see no way it happens. Still no one has articulated a vision for why he still could.

Arizona in many sports is a very difficult job compared to our competition. So you need great coaching to overcome it especially in football where we have the 11th highest assistant coaching salary pool in the PAC 12, little in state talent, average facilities, no real tradition, average to poor fan support, terrible football weather etc. Kevin Sumlin is not a great coach and 2018 season should have proven that to anyone. Before anyone says he had a winning record at Texas A&M, remember Mackovic won 3 conference titles at Texas and had a winning record too. And again no retread has taken a worse job and won a single conference title in the history of college football

Fine if you think differently, but understand it’s not based on facts logic or reason but more faith and hope. And faith and hope are two things an Arizona football fan should always question

I personally echo numerous of the statements here. I don't think Mackovic is a good comparison though, but the Rich Rod one is dead on. Following one coaching hire with certain circumstances with another coaching hire with literally the same certain circumstances isn't exactly a recipe for success. I think Sumlin may have a real good year at Arizona if the stars align much like RR did, but ultimately I expect a very similar type of tenure with probably less wins. The Navy coach would've been the correct hire IMO. Oh well, maybe the next AD/Prez mix will make the correct hire when that time comes.

Thank you for being reasonable. It would be shocking after Mackovic, RR, and Sumlin, if our program hires a retread anytime soon.

Again, very thankful we have not made the same mistake in all our other sports. I actually think Byrne and Heeke have made good hires there outside of the two swim coaches before Augie Busch.

Haven't checked this thread in a while let's see what it's up to!

Sumlin probably bought a couple more years with the Miller fiasco...or Heeke gets fired quickly and a new AD comes in wanting to get his own Football coach. Challenge will be U of A is dead broke right now and these buyouts will cost us money we dont have.

Sumlin wasn't going to leave soon regardless. Unless we have some major scandal he's here through 2020 or 2021.

ASUHATER! wrote:Sumlin wasn't going to leave soon regardless. Unless we have some major scandal he's here through 2020 or 2021.

True but honestly think he bought himself to 2021 at the earliest as major focus and monetary needs will be with basketball