2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Moderators: UAdevil, JMarkJohns

Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

TucsonClip wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 2:32 pm One issue I have with Love, is that when he does get downhill and attacks the rim, he has his mind made up before he gets there. He's going to the rim, he's going to get up a shot, even if he's running into traffic and has to toss up something wild in a crowd as with contact.

There's no middle game to drive, read and react or kick.

Regarding Townsend, I never got what the staff saw in him. My problem is, watching 2 full games of these guys (Townsend and ADO) which I did for my scouting reports last spring, it was clear as day they weren't good enough. And one dude (Townsend) was brought in to be a fulcrum of our offense which was absolutely laughable at the time, and grows in hilarity by the game.

Who the hell does the talent evaluation for our transfers? I mean this is Ryan Anderson, Ryan Luther, and Mark Tollefson bad.

Additionally, I think the most alarming thing is we weren't able to recruit anyone who could stick around and play the 4 since Lloyd got here, or develop someone who could. As a result, we end up with Townsend because we had to play Pauli as a 3 last year, and we didn't try to get him ready as a 4 man (or Pauli didn't want to pay the 4 and wanted to handle the ball more), which is an entirely different role.

Pauli or not, everyone saw what Zu did as the 4 man here, and Lloyd couldn't stand having to scheme our defense to cover for him on the other end. You'd think he could find any HS recruit, show him Zus tape in our offense, and say we can feature you here from day 1.

Furthermore, what does Lloyd actually want to run? I was fine with his system the first three years, he just needed more guys who could create off the bounce.

This isn't any of those things. It's a Bradley and Love centric high PNR scheme, but there's no shooting, nobody even tries to hit the roll man, or event a short roll, and our post up threat has no skill level. It certainly isn't anything like what we ran in the first 2 years, even part of last year with Love.
I was there today and havent rewatched yet but Love definitely played today like he heard you. Totally different on dribble drives.

Was told someone on the other site posted that Krivas has an ankle sprain. Not true.
azcat49
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:33 pm
Reputation: 1093
Location: Gilbert Az

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by azcat49 »

I thought Krivas has a foot injury, AKA broken foot
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

azcat49 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 6:26 pm I thought Krivas has a foot injury, AKA broken foot
I dont know anything about a foot injury/broken foot. I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate. Wouldn’t surprise me if this has been developing since late summer and is an explanation for why he wasn’t great/improved to start the season. This dates back to Miller, but I am starting to sour on Arizona basketball coaches allowing their players to suit up for their national teams in the summer. I get that that is a big deal and honor but imo an Arizona basketball coach’s first responsibility is to Arizona.
User avatar
pc in NM
Posts: 5765
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am
Reputation: 716
Location: Roswell, NM

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by pc in NM »

Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am
azcat49 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 6:26 pm I thought Krivas has a foot injury, AKA broken foot
I dont know anything about a foot injury/broken foot. I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate. Wouldn’t surprise me if this has been developing since late summer and is an explanation for why he wasn’t great/improved to start the season. This dates back to Miller, but I am starting to sour on Arizona basketball coaches allowing their players to suit up for their national teams in the summer. I get that that is a big deal and honor but imo an Arizona basketball coach’s first responsibility is to Arizona.
That's nuts!!! Sorry.

"Sorry son, but you can't play in the Olympics because, 'Bear Down!'"
“If you have the choice between humble and cocky, go with cocky. There's always time to be humble later, once you've been proven horrendously, irrevocably wrong.”

― Kinky Friedman
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

pc in NM wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:47 am
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am
azcat49 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 6:26 pm I thought Krivas has a foot injury, AKA broken foot
I dont know anything about a foot injury/broken foot. I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate. Wouldn’t surprise me if this has been developing since late summer and is an explanation for why he wasn’t great/improved to start the season. This dates back to Miller, but I am starting to sour on Arizona basketball coaches allowing their players to suit up for their national teams in the summer. I get that that is a big deal and honor but imo an Arizona basketball coach’s first responsibility is to Arizona.
That's nuts!!! Sorry.

"Sorry son, but you can't play in the Olympics because, 'Bear Down!'"
Was referencing FIBA not the Olys. Such that that makes a difference.
User avatar
pc in NM
Posts: 5765
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am
Reputation: 716
Location: Roswell, NM

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by pc in NM »

Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:55 am
pc in NM wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:47 am
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am
azcat49 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 6:26 pm I thought Krivas has a foot injury, AKA broken foot
I dont know anything about a foot injury/broken foot. I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate. Wouldn’t surprise me if this has been developing since late summer and is an explanation for why he wasn’t great/improved to start the season. This dates back to Miller, but I am starting to sour on Arizona basketball coaches allowing their players to suit up for their national teams in the summer. I get that that is a big deal and honor but imo an Arizona basketball coach’s first responsibility is to Arizona.
That's nuts!!! Sorry.

"Sorry son, but you can't play in the Olympics because, 'Bear Down!'"
Was referencing FIBA not the Olys. Such that that makes a difference.
No difference at all - most of those teams are the foundation of their Olympic Team.

Don't let Arizona Players or potential recruits play for CTL on the USA Basketball Men's Junior National Team??? Nuts!!
“If you have the choice between humble and cocky, go with cocky. There's always time to be humble later, once you've been proven horrendously, irrevocably wrong.”

― Kinky Friedman
azcat49
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:33 pm
Reputation: 1093
Location: Gilbert Az

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by azcat49 »

So I have no info on why he is not playing so I guess I need to ask, why is he not playing?
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
User avatar
Merkin
Posts: 43873
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 am
Reputation: 1660
Location: UA basketball smells like....victory

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Merkin »

Aren't most elite players used to playing 80-100 games a year between high school and AAU teams?
azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:26 am So I have no info on why he is not playing so I guess I need to ask, why is he not playing?
Same. Don't get the reference here.
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate.
User avatar
pc in NM
Posts: 5765
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am
Reputation: 716
Location: Roswell, NM

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by pc in NM »

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:30 am Aren't most elite players used to playing 80-100 games a year between high school and AAU teams?
azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:26 am So I have no info on why he is not playing so I guess I need to ask, why is he not playing?
Same. Don't get the reference here.
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate.
Unless, and until, there is specific reporting, the most likely conclusion is that there's been a recurrence/aggravation of the injury that kept him out of practice this preseason - and that should be very concerning...

... I'm hoping that he can recover and be back by next season - but, with big guys, this foot/leg issue can easily become chronic.
“If you have the choice between humble and cocky, go with cocky. There's always time to be humble later, once you've been proven horrendously, irrevocably wrong.”

― Kinky Friedman
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

Wasn't he in a boot the other day? Or a big bandage?
Reinjury of the foot from the summer? Or it never healed (no pun intended).
I have to believe it is long term since they pulled the RS from Stephan (sp).
User avatar
Merkin
Posts: 43873
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 am
Reputation: 1660
Location: UA basketball smells like....victory

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Merkin »

pc in NM wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:38 am but, with big guys, this foot/leg issue can easily become chronic.


Image
User avatar
Merkin
Posts: 43873
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 am
Reputation: 1660
Location: UA basketball smells like....victory

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Merkin »

Ten teams that need to turn around their seasons -- now

There are a multitude of surprising storylines in college basketball this season. Auburn and Tennessee lead an SEC that could break the record for at-large berths in the NCAA tournament. Florida and Oklahoma entered the week with zero losses. Who could have predicted any of that?


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... nsas-state

1. Arizona Wildcats
Caleb Love's return for his senior season -- he won Pac-12 player of the year in 2023-24 -- seemed to position Tommy Lloyd's squad for immediate success in the program's first season in the Big 12. But the nonconference path for the Wildcats has been littered with problems. An Arizona squad that was ranked 10th in the Associated Press Top 25 preseason poll recorded its fifth loss of the season just over a week ago. With an 0-5 record against Quad 1 opponents -- the victories that boost and validate a team's seeding in March -- the Wildcats will need a miraculous course correction during Big 12 play and an improved Love (29% from beyond the arc) to reach the NCAA tournament.
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:30 am Aren't most elite players used to playing 80-100 games a year between high school and AAU teams?
azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:26 am So I have no info on why he is not playing so I guess I need to ask, why is he not playing?
Same. Don't get the reference here.
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate.
Not the first late off season/early season injury to a European Arizona player in the recent past and FIBA isnt the Olys nor Team USA under 18s. Havent noticed any of them, Pelle maybe aside, any better for the experience either. Rather have them here getting ready under the obs of our staff. Not a fully formed opinion and I dont feel super strongly about it but its eyebrow raising for certain.
azcat49
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:33 pm
Reputation: 1093
Location: Gilbert Az

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by azcat49 »

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:30 am Aren't most elite players used to playing 80-100 games a year between high school and AAU teams?
azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:26 am So I have no info on why he is not playing so I guess I need to ask, why is he not playing?
Same. Don't get the reference here.


I didn’t know what his injury was preseason and I guess the speculation is he injured whatever that was again? Sounds like they may have hurried him back doesn’t it?
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate.
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
User avatar
Merkin
Posts: 43873
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 am
Reputation: 1660
Location: UA basketball smells like....victory

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Merkin »

azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:59 pm I didn’t know what his injury was preseason and I guess the speculation is he injured whatever that was again? Sounds like they may have hurried him back doesn’t it?
Have read complaints about the S&C program. Maybe it was Winger who said he heard complaints from parents about, or Choo, working the players too hard.

Wonder if that was a consideration for the 3 defensive captains who were all seriously injured but still went into the portal.
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:38 pm
azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:59 pm I didn’t know what his injury was preseason and I guess the speculation is he injured whatever that was again? Sounds like they may have hurried him back doesn’t it?
Have read complaints about the S&C program. Maybe it was Winger who said he heard complaints from parents about, or Choo, working the players too hard.

Wonder if that was a consideration for the 3 defensive captains who were all seriously injured but still went into the portal.
Are you in the eggnog already? This is the basketball thread.
User avatar
Merkin
Posts: 43873
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 am
Reputation: 1660
Location: UA basketball smells like....victory

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Merkin »

Postmaster wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:17 pm Are you in the eggnog already? This is the basketball thread.
Eggnog, blech.

For some reason I though they shared S&C, but thinking about it, why would they? Shows how hard thinking is for me.
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

I've never been to excited about basketball s&c. We seem to get the ball striped out of hands far too often.
PHXCATS
Posts: 7137
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm
Reputation: -122

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by PHXCATS »

Adjusted offense and defense combined, UA is a top 7 team
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
azcat49
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:33 pm
Reputation: 1093
Location: Gilbert Az

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by azcat49 »

Interesting info but I wonder where we would be if we just used our 5 losses who were against P4 opponents
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
PHXCATS
Posts: 7137
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm
Reputation: -122

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by PHXCATS »

azcat49 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 11:24 am Interesting info but I wonder where we would be if we just used our 5 losses who were against P4 opponents
It is adjusted for all that
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
azcat49
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:33 pm
Reputation: 1093
Location: Gilbert Az

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by azcat49 »

Granted it uses all the efficiency from both games but our 6 wins are not against the typical opponents we will face going forward.

I also know all those teams have a similar schedule with respect to non P4 teams that they beat big. Just wonder how our efficiencies would be if we isolated just the p4 games
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
User avatar
Chicat
Posts: 47049
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:19 pm
Reputation: 4195
Location: Your mother's basement

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Chicat »

Do we have a link to this #7 overall adjusted ranking because Kenpom doesn’t look like it has us ranked there by any measure.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
User avatar
84Cat
Posts: 20190
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:17 pm
Reputation: 1129
Location: Boise

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by 84Cat »

Team rankings has us with a 85% to make the tournament. They are predicting a 19 - 12 record. I just don't see it yet. We're going to know a lot after our next game with TCU. If we can't beat them fairly easily at home, we got no shot at the tournament. This team seams to be getting better but they need to turn it around asap
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

PHXCATS wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:36 am Adjusted offense and defense combined, UA is a top 7 team
Not on KenPom.

Not on Torvik.

Not on EvanMiya.

And it’s not even close.
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:59 pm
Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:30 am Aren't most elite players used to playing 80-100 games a year between high school and AAU teams?
azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:26 am So I have no info on why he is not playing so I guess I need to ask, why is he not playing?
Same. Don't get the reference here.


I didn’t know what his injury was preseason and I guess the speculation is he injured whatever that was again? Sounds like they may have hurried him back doesn’t it?
Winger wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:44 am I think the rumor that he was done for the season that leaked out of PHX around the time of the UCLA game will end up being accurate.
Sorry didn’t see your response buried in the middle of the quote.

I don’t want to, didn’t intend to, imply the staff rushed him back.
User avatar
Chicat
Posts: 47049
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:19 pm
Reputation: 4195
Location: Your mother's basement

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Chicat »

Winger wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 6:15 pm
PHXCATS wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:36 am Adjusted offense and defense combined, UA is a top 7 team
Not on KenPom.

Not on Torvik.

Not on EvanMiya.

And it’s not even close.
Yeah I couldn’t find anywhere we are a top-7 team in anything.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
User avatar
Merkin
Posts: 43873
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:31 am
Reputation: 1660
Location: UA basketball smells like....victory

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Merkin »

84Cat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 4:22 pm They are predicting a 19 - 12 record. I just don't see it yet.
I don't either. Cats are somehow going to lose 7 or less more games during the Big 12 season of 20 games, not even including the Big 12 tourney. Believe most knowledgeable are hoping for 10-10.
CopaCat
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:51 pm
Reputation: 114
Location: Copa

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by CopaCat »

PHXCATS wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:36 am Adjusted offense and defense combined, UA is a top 7 team
Is that against the spread? Or losing to ranked teams? Just wondering?
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

Merkin wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:30 pm
84Cat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 4:22 pm They are predicting a 19 - 12 record. I just don't see it yet.
I don't either. Cats are somehow going to lose 7 or less more games during the Big 12 season of 20 games, not even including the Big 12 tourney. Believe most knowledgeable are hoping for 10-10.
One thing about most of the computer rankings is that they are more-so predictive and, at this point in the season for KenPom there is still a bit of last season’s performance baked in; but, fwiw, KenPom has Arizona at #24 and is “predicting” an 11-9 conference record.

In order for Arizona to get to something like 11-9 or better some things are going to have to change. And this facet — humans taking what they have seen or measured and linearly sending it out in to the future — is why we make mistakes.

No way Arizona is anything better than .500 based on what we have seen to date and that includes play by our incoming starting center and top 20 NBA draft pick who is likely done for the season (and at best is done for the vast majority of the season).

Trick going forward is to figure out what needs to change.

The easy answer is Love has to become an All American again and Arizona’s shooting has to improve.

But I would also offer:

1. Arizona needs to be able to run Tommy Lloyd’s free love offense vs legit opponents (as opposed to the Samfords and Old Dominions). This is a major factor imv and you can look to metrics like: offensive tempo (currently 33rd) increasing (mostly on the bask of more transition attempts which every team in the country shoots a higher fg% on) and especially the ast/fgm % increasing (currently 84th which is off the chart historically bad for a Lloyd-coached Arizona team).

2. On the other end of the court, Arizona has to find a way to reverse several defensive metrics that have been steadily worsening over Lloyds’s tenure: eFG% allowed (from 8th nationally season 1 to 36th season 2 to 68th season 3 to 53rd today), defensive FT rate (37th to 34th to 26th to 136th today), and assist % allowed (80th to 132nd to 227th to 277th today). And, importantly Arizona has to reverse the marked drop off in its defensive rebounding that has occurred to date this season (currently 42nd c/w 7th last season).

Up to coach to figure out the lineups, sub patterns, and schemes to accomplish those things. But, in order for this not to be a failed season (definition: no NCAA tournament bid) for Arizona — something that historically since circa 1985 has been a very rare thing — those are a bunch of the things than need to change.

Starting Monday vs TCU.
PHXCATS
Posts: 7137
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm
Reputation: -122

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by PHXCATS »

Arizona is good

R

E

L

A

X
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
User avatar
Alieberman
Posts: 13910
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:50 am
Reputation: 2920
Location: I can't find my pants

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Alieberman »

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 10:31 am Arizona is good

R

E

L

A

X
Do you mean relax, no big deal that Arizona is a .500 team or that there is nothing to criticize/ discuss/ improve in order to dig themselves out of this hole?

BTW- I know you love this Aaron Rodgers quote... but you do realize how much he has under perfeormed over his career?
PHXCATS
Posts: 7137
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm
Reputation: -122

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by PHXCATS »

Alieberman wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:14 am
PHXCATS wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 10:31 am Arizona is good

R

E

L

A

X
Do you mean relax, no big deal that Arizona is a .500 team or that there is nothing to criticize/ discuss/ improve in order to dig themselves out of this hole?

BTW- I know you love this Aaron Rodgers quote... but you do realize how much he has under perfeormed over his career?
I fucking hate Aaron Rodgers
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
PHXCATS
Posts: 7137
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm
Reputation: -122

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by PHXCATS »

Arizona is a very good team

Just taking some time to gel and some bad luck

Adjusted offense and adjusted defense are good and they are a top team with those combined

As far as the agendas go, there is obviously more behind the scenes than we know in terms of Byrant's playing time

Arizona will be fine. They will win lots of games going forward and they will make the tournament
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
dmjcat
Posts: 5701
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:58 pm
Reputation: 474

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by dmjcat »

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:43 am Arizona is a very good team

Just taking some time to gel and some bad luck

Adjusted offense and adjusted defense are good and they are a top team with those combined

As far as the agendas go, there is obviously more behind the scenes than we know in terms of Byrant's playing time

Arizona will be fine. They will win lots of games going forward and they will make the tournament
You still haven't told us (or provided a link) how the UA is ranked 7th in Kenpom
PHXCATS
Posts: 7137
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm
Reputation: -122

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by PHXCATS »

dmjcat wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:46 am
PHXCATS wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:43 am Arizona is a very good team

Just taking some time to gel and some bad luck

Adjusted offense and adjusted defense are good and they are a top team with those combined

As far as the agendas go, there is obviously more behind the scenes than we know in terms of Byrant's playing time

Arizona will be fine. They will win lots of games going forward and they will make the tournament
You still haven't told us (or provided a link) how the UA is ranked 7th in Kenpom
I mute and skip most people

I never said Kenpom
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
dmjcat
Posts: 5701
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:58 pm
Reputation: 474

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by dmjcat »

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:48 am
dmjcat wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:46 am
PHXCATS wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 11:43 am Arizona is a very good team

Just taking some time to gel and some bad luck

Adjusted offense and adjusted defense are good and they are a top team with those combined

As far as the agendas go, there is obviously more behind the scenes than we know in terms of Byrant's playing time

Arizona will be fine. They will win lots of games going forward and they will make the tournament
You still haven't told us (or provided a link) how the UA is ranked 7th in Kenpom
I mute and skip most people

I never said Kenpom
OK, fine. Please link the source which does have the UA ranked 7th.
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

84Cat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 4:22 pm Team rankings has us with a 85% to make the tournament. They are predicting a 19 - 12 record. I just don't see it yet. We're going to know a lot after our next game with TCU. If we can't beat them fairly easily at home, we got no shot at the tournament. This team seams to be getting better but they need to turn it around asap
They seem to get better when they play bad teams. It's hard tell what is real.
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

Winger wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 9:09 am
Merkin wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:30 pm
84Cat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 4:22 pm They are predicting a 19 - 12 record. I just don't see it yet.
I don't either. Cats are somehow going to lose 7 or less more games during the Big 12 season of 20 games, not even including the Big 12 tourney. Believe most knowledgeable are hoping for 10-10.
One thing about most of the computer rankings is that they are more-so predictive and, at this point in the season for KenPom there is still a bit of last season’s performance baked in; but, fwiw, KenPom has Arizona at #24 and is “predicting” an 11-9 conference record.

In order for Arizona to get to something like 11-9 or better some things are going to have to change. And this facet — humans taking what they have seen or measured and linearly sending it out in to the future — is why we make mistakes.

No way Arizona is anything better than .500 based on what we have seen to date and that includes play by our incoming starting center and top 20 NBA draft pick who is likely done for the season (and at best is done for the vast majority of the season).

Trick going forward is to figure out what needs to change.

The easy answer is Love has to become an All American again and Arizona’s shooting has to improve.

But I would also offer:

1. Arizona needs to be able to run Tommy Lloyd’s free love offense vs legit opponents (as opposed to the Samfords and Old Dominions). This is a major factor imv and you can look to metrics like: offensive tempo (currently 33rd) increasing (mostly on the bask of more transition attempts which every team in the country shoots a higher fg% on) and especially the ast/fgm % increasing (currently 84th which is off the chart historically bad for a Lloyd-coached Arizona team).

2. On the other end of the court, Arizona has to find a way to reverse several defensive metrics that have been steadily worsening over Lloyds’s tenure: eFG% allowed (from 8th nationally season 1 to 36th season 2 to 68th season 3 to 53rd today), defensive FT rate (37th to 34th to 26th to 136th today), and assist % allowed (80th to 132nd to 227th to 277th today). And, importantly Arizona has to reverse the marked drop off in its defensive rebounding that has occurred to date this season (currently 42nd c/w 7th last season).

Up to coach to figure out the lineups, sub patterns, and schemes to accomplish those things. But, in order for this not to be a failed season (definition: no NCAA tournament bid) for Arizona — something that historically since circa 1985 has been a very rare thing — those are a bunch of the things than need to change.

Starting Monday vs TCU.
I think a lot of those defensive metrics are related to Ballo.
User avatar
KaibabKat
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:48 pm
Reputation: 220

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by KaibabKat »

Conrad Martinez with a PER of 23.4 needs to play significantly more minutes. 3x to 4x more per game than he has thus far.
User avatar
Chicat
Posts: 47049
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:19 pm
Reputation: 4195
Location: Your mother's basement

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Chicat »

Anyone have a link to this #7 combined adjusted rating? Would love to know who put together that metric and where they get their ayahuasca.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

Chicat wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:40 pm Anyone have a link to this #7 combined adjusted rating? Would love to know who put together that metric and where they get their ayahuasca.
It is the same guy that put together the P/L data for Robbins RE: Ashford University.
Last edited by Postmaster on Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Chicat
Posts: 47049
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:19 pm
Reputation: 4195
Location: Your mother's basement

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Chicat »

Postmaster wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 3:36 pm
Chicat wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:40 pm Anyone have a link to this #7 combined adjusted rating? Would love to know who put together that metric and where they get their ayahuasca.
Is s the same guy that put together the P/L data for Robbins RE: Ashford University.
TrustMeBro.com has never been wrong.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

Postmaster wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:02 pm
Winger wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 9:09 am
Merkin wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 10:30 pm
84Cat wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 4:22 pm They are predicting a 19 - 12 record. I just don't see it yet.
I don't either. Cats are somehow going to lose 7 or less more games during the Big 12 season of 20 games, not even including the Big 12 tourney. Believe most knowledgeable are hoping for 10-10.
One thing about most of the computer rankings is that they are more-so predictive and, at this point in the season for KenPom there is still a bit of last season’s performance baked in; but, fwiw, KenPom has Arizona at #24 and is “predicting” an 11-9 conference record.

In order for Arizona to get to something like 11-9 or better some things are going to have to change. And this facet — humans taking what they have seen or measured and linearly sending it out in to the future — is why we make mistakes.

No way Arizona is anything better than .500 based on what we have seen to date and that includes play by our incoming starting center and top 20 NBA draft pick who is likely done for the season (and at best is done for the vast majority of the season).

Trick going forward is to figure out what needs to change.

The easy answer is Love has to become an All American again and Arizona’s shooting has to improve.

But I would also offer:

1. Arizona needs to be able to run Tommy Lloyd’s free love offense vs legit opponents (as opposed to the Samfords and Old Dominions). This is a major factor imv and you can look to metrics like: offensive tempo (currently 33rd) increasing (mostly on the bask of more transition attempts which every team in the country shoots a higher fg% on) and especially the ast/fgm % increasing (currently 84th which is off the chart historically bad for a Lloyd-coached Arizona team).

2. On the other end of the court, Arizona has to find a way to reverse several defensive metrics that have been steadily worsening over Lloyds’s tenure: eFG% allowed (from 8th nationally season 1 to 36th season 2 to 68th season 3 to 53rd today), defensive FT rate (37th to 34th to 26th to 136th today), and assist % allowed (80th to 132nd to 227th to 277th today). And, importantly Arizona has to reverse the marked drop off in its defensive rebounding that has occurred to date this season (currently 42nd c/w 7th last season).

Up to coach to figure out the lineups, sub patterns, and schemes to accomplish those things. But, in order for this not to be a failed season (definition: no NCAA tournament bid) for Arizona — something that historically since circa 1985 has been a very rare thing — those are a bunch of the things than need to change.

Starting Monday vs TCU.
I think a lot of those defensive metrics are related to Ballo.
Agree.

But Keshad’s ability to guard stretch 4s/5s and switch ball screens on the perimeter was huge (switching him on to Filipowski flipped the Duke game for one example) and Pelle was a solid perimeter defender (Lloyd often putting him on the opposition’s best offensive player as another example).

I still have hope that Arizona can change some things the rest of the way and make the tournament but there is going to be some homer in that hope.
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

Stephen is probably a better rebounder and really rim protecter than Krivas.
dmjcat
Posts: 5701
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:58 pm
Reputation: 474

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by dmjcat »

Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Winger »

dmjcat wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:45 pm
Very old news, sadly.

On an unrelated not I chatted w Caleb’s father tonight and if I understood him correctly Caleb came in to this season trying to be a good team mate, deferring, not dominating the ball, etc. but after Atlantis pops told him to F that.

Also unrelated, Arizona cant play DelOrso in conference and Townsend isnt far behind.
User avatar
TucsonClip
Posts: 1408
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:57 pm
Reputation: 219
Location: San Diego

TCU Game Notes

Post by TucsonClip »

First, the offense continues to improve and it all has to do with continuity. The side to side action we were missing for weeks has been showing up more and more. As I mentioned before Christmas, Lloyd has been able to use Love's gravity and scoring prowess to space the floor, but also to get him better looks instead of being on ball so much.

Early on, we ran our three main versions of our offense. The routine, side to side, bigs step out and empty side PNR action, a chin set to get ADO to initiate with Bradley and Love to reverse to on either side to get into our action, and the third being the stagger screen for love to get a touch into a PNR. We ran each of these on consecutive possessions to start the game. This is important, as teams aren't able to lock in on our motion, and we can catch them cheating.

Along with this development has been Henri's coming out party. Again, I mentioned last time he has bee spectacular in the short roll action out of our high PNR and even on those empty side ball screens. His ability screen, roll, catch, look up and not just steamroll to the rim, and then make a read (floater, dive, dish to a cutter, or kick). In this case, we immediately saw the short roll, TCU bite, Carter cut baseline for a clear set lob play. A few possession later, we would see the empty corner ball screen out of our motion, when Henri was able to dive and it led to a dunk. Later in the 1H we would see Henri again in the short roll, kick out to KJ, Kj drives, Henri reverse pivot to keep his hands up and KJ hit him for an easy drop off dunk.

These are the types of plays that our offense was built around. Henri's skill level and IQ not only allow our offense to become unlocked, but it serves as an outlet against defenses, in this cause TCU constantly being around the ball on drives. He was the perfect outlet against the pressure to break their defense.

I know I have been saying it for 2.5 years now, but Lloyd was a big believer in Henri. This is the dude he envisioned, that I am certain of, and his talent is blossoming at the perfect time for us.

Love... What more is there to say? Again, dude is getting FAR better looks with the way our offense is moving the ball. Paint and spray spot up looks, catch and shoot, one dribble side steps and pull ups, back cuts, and then his dosage of PNR. He won that game tonight, no doubt about it.

Due to the ball movement, Bradley has found it a bit more difficult to score, but you are now seeing him keep the continuity, the ball whipping, and able to settle down the offense when needed. He still makes some head scratching TOs, but its definitely more good than bad.

Carter... Just keep giving him minutes and watch him develop. He is our x-factor as the year progresses.

KJ struggled early, but you saw the defensive energy, the steals, even more importantly were the deflections. His defense really opens up his offensive game. Again, someone else who is improving because of the ball movement and him getting touches on reversals, with the defense shifting. His 8 assists were key tonight, plus all his deflections and steals.

Awaka was rough to start, but you saw him come alive once we were able to spread TCU out a bit more and get him going down hill, off those empty corner ball screens, where he isnt surrounded by defenders. That is where he can finish.

Defense was struggling at the point of attack and giving up easy lanes into the paint. I thought they might need to turn down the aggressiveness off the ball to help more in the gaps, as TCU wasfinding easy slashing lanes

That said, our defense is much more active with Henri and Carter on the floor. Quicker rotations, allows us to turn up the ball pressure, and legit size, length and athleticism to contest at the rim and rebound outside of their spaces.

Townsend and ADO... Well... They aren't going to enjoy watching their defensive performances. Both are simply lost on defense. Townsend was somehow more egregious than ADO, simply because of the minute distribution. Dude was helping when he didnt need to, had no idea when he was the low man and when he wasnt. What to do in our PNR coverage off the ball. He doesnt rebound outside his area very well against guys bigger than him. He really struggles to contest at the rim, and just doesnt pose much of a threat at the rim, and certainly not contesting in the air.
"Plus, why would I go to the NBA? Duke players suck in the pros."

-Shane Battier
Postmaster
Posts: 3681
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:25 pm
Reputation: 368

Re: 2024-25 Arizona Basketball

Post by Postmaster »

So why not get Stephen in the game? If you pull the RS, he needs to get some minutes. Especially when we were getting beat on the boards.
Winger
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:05 pm
Reputation: 223

Re: TCU Game Notes

Post by Winger »

TucsonClip wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:07 pm First, the offense continues to improve and it all has to do with continuity. The side to side action we were missing for weeks has been showing up more and more. As I mentioned before Christmas, Lloyd has been able to use Love's gravity and scoring prowess to space the floor, but also to get him better looks instead of being on ball so much.

Early on, we ran our three main versions of our offense. The routine, side to side, bigs step out and empty side PNR action, a chin set to get ADO to initiate with Bradley and Love to reverse to on either side to get into our action, and the third being the stagger screen for love to get a touch into a PNR. We ran each of these on consecutive possessions to start the game. This is important, as teams aren't able to lock in on our motion, and we can catch them cheating.

Along with this development has been Henri's coming out party. Again, I mentioned last time he has bee spectacular in the short roll action out of our high PNR and even on those empty side ball screens. His ability screen, roll, catch, look up and not just steamroll to the rim, and then make a read (floater, dive, dish to a cutter, or kick). In this case, we immediately saw the short roll, TCU bite, Carter cut baseline for a clear set lob play. A few possession later, we would see the empty corner ball screen out of our motion, when Henri was able to dive and it led to a dunk. Later in the 1H we would see Henri again in the short roll, kick out to KJ, Kj drives, Henri reverse pivot to keep his hands up and KJ hit him for an easy drop off dunk.

These are the types of plays that our offense was built around. Henri's skill level and IQ not only allow our offense to become unlocked, but it serves as an outlet against defenses, in this cause TCU constantly being around the ball on drives. He was the perfect outlet against the pressure to break their defense.

I know I have been saying it for 2.5 years now, but Lloyd was a big believer in Henri. This is the dude he envisioned, that I am certain of, and his talent is blossoming at the perfect time for us.

Love... What more is there to say? Again, dude is getting FAR better looks with the way our offense is moving the ball. Paint and spray spot up looks, catch and shoot, one dribble side steps and pull ups, back cuts, and then his dosage of PNR. He won that game tonight, no doubt about it.

Due to the ball movement, Bradley has found it a bit more difficult to score, but you are now seeing him keep the continuity, the ball whipping, and able to settle down the offense when needed. He still makes some head scratching TOs, but its definitely more good than bad.

Carter... Just keep giving him minutes and watch him develop. He is our x-factor as the year progresses.

KJ struggled early, but you saw the defensive energy, the steals, even more importantly were the deflections. His defense really opens up his offensive game. Again, someone else who is improving because of the ball movement and him getting touches on reversals, with the defense shifting. His 8 assists were key tonight, plus all his deflections and steals.

Awaka was rough to start, but you saw him come alive once we were able to spread TCU out a bit more and get him going down hill, off those empty corner ball screens, where he isnt surrounded by defenders. That is where he can finish.

Defense was struggling at the point of attack and giving up easy lanes into the paint. I thought they might need to turn down the aggressiveness off the ball to help more in the gaps, as TCU wasfinding easy slashing lanes

That said, our defense is much more active with Henri and Carter on the floor. Quicker rotations, allows us to turn up the ball pressure, and legit size, length and athleticism to contest at the rim and rebound outside of their spaces.

Townsend and ADO... Well... They aren't going to enjoy watching their defensive performances. Both are simply lost on defense. Townsend was somehow more egregious than ADO, simply because of the minute distribution. Dude was helping when he didnt need to, had no idea when he was the low man and when he wasnt. What to do in our PNR coverage off the ball. He doesnt rebound outside his area very well against guys bigger than him. He really struggles to contest at the rim, and just doesnt pose much of a threat at the rim, and certainly not contesting in the air.
So awesome, thanks.

When we are continuing on offense we are so much better. TCU isnt Old Dominion but what was our asst% tonight?

Just 3 games but we look nothing like the Arizona team prior to the past 3.

Need 2 on this trip.
Last edited by Winger on Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply