Tommy Lloyd

[TheCat]

You’re annoying at how much you’re overthinking things everyone else understood and even argued for.

I’m not wrong. It was abundantly clear.

You’re just incapable of understanding independent of semantics.

I understand math and the fact that what you said about transfers is wrong (they will dry up).

Just be careful what you say when it is ridiculous.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm angry and annoyed at lots of shit these days.

Tommy Lloyd and the AZ Wildcats are way the fuck down on that list though.

That’s fair. Within the realm that Arizona sports has the capacity to anger or excite…

I can’t even tell you what is happening to the worlds I know and the people they inhabit. I know 5 people fired, 3 from the feds, 1 from her grant-funded research position, and my sister who has been managing vehicle parts and purchases for 4 years now, let go, no warning, the Monday the tariffs were set to go into effect because they anticipated needing to cut costs with a downturn.

And that’s just the professional side. It hurts worse when we get into the personal parts.

I had to begin my semester telling first generation college students of farm workers that I would protect them from any potential raids. Students cried. Asked questions about their family.

So, yeah, I get it.

From a standpoint of Arizona Basketball is more than just a distraction, we should all be annoyed at where recruiting has fallen to.

But point taken on the hyperbole.

[JMarkJohns]

You’re annoying at how much you’re overthinking things everyone else understood and even argued for.

I’m not wrong. It was abundantly clear.

You’re just incapable of understanding independent of semantics.

I understand math and the fact that what you said about transfers is wrong (they will dry up).
And then you say that COVID transfers have been more impactful. Well I guess you can say that. I can't refute that I can only point out the facts that many of the graduate transfers were not picked up by anyone and that approximately 8% stayed where they were. Not sure where you are getting your COVID being impactful stats from but I have not seen them. NCAA doesn't track them but someone might.

Just be careful what you say when it is ridiculous.

Nothing you have said disproves a single goddamned thing I said, explained, etc. Everyone but your head up the ass of semantics self understood if the Covid seniors are gone, immediate impact talent takes a massive hit, meaning, what has been middle of the pack talent that Tommy has afforded and recruited well, becomes prioritized talent and Tommy gets bullied by NIL, slow-plays recruitments, and generally struggles to secure his first wave of options.

This is historical.

10 people understood it. You galloping in on a high horse only to beat that horse to death for something as silly as “yeah but not precisely” is a you problem. I don’t deal with other people’s problems. Either wise up to tone mood vibes of a post or become a copy editor to fulfill the need for excessive correction.

[Chicat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

[JMarkJohns]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

[TucsonClip]

TucsonClip, not sure he posts here as much as he used, has used what San Diego State is doing as an example of what Arizona should be doing in evals, who and how many and when, and priority, and development.

Given they have overachieved in March where Tommy has underachieved, and given we recruited one of their types to maximize in our system, yeah, I’d say he’s on to something.

Yeah, just getting around to this, but the fact SDSU has out evaluated UA for some many guys who would have been good fits for Miller, and now Lloyd, is a bit baffling to me. I know Miller killed the recruiting trail for a while, and Lloyd is a "developer" of talent. But all these dudes could easily have played here:

Here was my post:

I don't want either to leave SDSU, but two guys id keep an eye on are Miles Byrd (former fringe Miller recruit) and Magoon Gwath

I'll tell ya what, if we could find the gem developmental guys SDSU has for a decade, id be a happy man.

Miller should have been recruiting SDSU style players, and Lloyd should be getting the Byrds, Gwath, Compton's to develop.

Get me Burries and Peat, or give me Byrd and maybe Gwath ... Or death.

Miles Byrd
Magoon Gwath
Pharaoh Compton
Keshad Johnson
Lamont Butler
Nathan Mensa
Adam Seiko
Jordan Schakel
Jalen McDaniels
Malik Pope

Like how the F is SDSU out evaluating and developing us for guys that are perfect for Miller, and even Lloyd in many cases?

You mix in a 5* like Bryant, a transfer like Bradley and one or two of those dudes to develop every year, and we're sitting pretty.

My overall point being, we need to land HS recruits who, by year 2, can be rotation players and continue developing. No more patching holes with mid major transfers to play major roles, taking the fringe overseas recruit and ignoring the dudes within 500 miles.

I am with you on the job SDSU has done and I know I have posted this a million times, but, especially prior to his recruiting going off the tracks, the last thing in the world Sean Miller wanted was developmental players.

Now, as to why Lloyd can't find better transfers in this era and what in the wide wide world of sports was going through his mind on ADO and Townsend, on that I have zero clue.

Byrd, Gwath and Compton. Those are the guys Lloyd needs to find in his HS classes. Superior upside compared to many of the guys we brought in, each with a unique skill set to play different roles, and even skill to fit Lloyd's scheme. All are dudes from CA, that we could have plucked, and offer a longer runway to build out your rotation for multiple years.

The staffs evals really need to get better, but not inking HS dudes who we can develop,.and defaulting for guys like Bal, Henderson, Boro, Martinez, ADO, Townsend, ect is silly.

[TheCat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

Everyone seems to have a problem with transfers. I don't. I think they are a new way to acquire proven players. Not all will pan out but they are more reliable and more predictable in a lot of cases than freshman. So some of the teams we lost to and their number of transfers just in the last year:
KSU-7
WV-8
TexTech-4
Okla-6
UCLA-6
Houston is the exception as they only had 1 transfer.

If you look at scoring of freshman there are 5 in the top 50. 4 of the 5 are on losing teams with Flagg being the exception. Rutgers has 2 that are potential top 10 NBA draft choices.
There is one freshman in the top 50 in rebounding.
There are no freshman in the top 50 for 3 pt field goals made.

If you look at our own team we start at least 3 and usually 4 players that transferred in. Those didn't all come in the last year but it just shows how valuable they can be.

I think 3 is ideal for the number of freshman to bring in. Carter has been really good for a freshman and where he has really stood out to me is rebounding. His defense is not great but he is long and can block some shot. His shooting looks smooth but he can be on or off.

If I have time later I will look at teams considered a surprise and see how many transfers they have. I know Michigan brought in a bunch, Vandy, Missouri, Louisville and USC practically their whole team (not sure their record classifies as a surprise).

I think our problem could be players that transfer out as Tobe, Vas, Carter will be in huge demand.

[Chicat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

Everyone seems to have a problem with transfers. I don't. I think they are a new way to acquire proven players. Not all will pan out but they are more reliable and more predictable in a lot of cases than freshman. So some of the teams we lost to and their number of transfers just in the last year:
KSU-7
WV-8
TexTech-4
Okla-6
UCLA-6
Houston is the exception as they only had 1 transfer.

Let’s look at their records…

KSU 13-13 (7-8)
WVU 15-10 (6-8)
TTU 20-6 (11-4)
OU 16-10 (3-10)
UCLA 19-8 (10-6)

Outside of TTU and UCLA that’s a whole lot of mediocrity. Just because they beat us doesn’t mean we should emulate them. Also, KSU & WVU went through recent coaching changes so obviously they are going to have more transfers than normal.

I have no problem with getting a transfer or two to round out your team but we shouldn’t be grabbing warm bodies like we just went through a coaching change and need enough guys to hold practice.

[azcat49]

You bring in freshman at our usual level and they are gone in a year or in Lloyd’s case, they have transferred (euro’s)

I am not sure what the answer is except I agree he needs to offer more players and get more athletic and surround those with guys that can be developed at the Big XII level. Keeping those guys might prove to be difficult though

[TheCat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

Everyone seems to have a problem with transfers. I don't. I think they are a new way to acquire proven players. Not all will pan out but they are more reliable and more predictable in a lot of cases than freshman. So some of the teams we lost to and their number of transfers just in the last year:
KSU-7
WV-8
TexTech-4
Okla-6
UCLA-6
Houston is the exception as they only had 1 transfer.

Let’s look at their records…

KSU 13-13 (7-8)
WVU 15-10 (6-8)
TTU 20-6 (11-4)
OU 16-10 (3-10)
UCLA 19-8 (10-6)

Outside of TTU and UCLA that’s a whole lot of mediocrity. Just because they beat us doesn’t mean we should emulate them. Also, KSU & WVU went through recent coaching changes so obviously they are going to have more transfers than normal.

I have no problem with getting a transfer or two to round out your team but we shouldn’t be grabbing warm bodies like we just went through a coaching change and need enough guys to hold practice.

I picked those teams not because they were stellar it was because they beat us and I was curious if they had many transfers. Maybe I didn't make that clear. No one is saying we should emulate them. Hell we are in second place with 3-5 starters as transfers. I think I did make clear that freshman made up 5 of the top 50 in scoring and 4 were on losing teams (not just conference records but in total including cupcake OOC). Of those teams I listed I would also say that transfers were the best players on 3 of them including the two you mentioned as not being mediocre.
I think if you only grabbed one transfer you could be selling yourself short by not picking up PROVEN talent. I'm all for getting high level freshman if they fit your need knowing that if they blow up they may be gone after a year. NBA or NIL.
I get it you don't like our transfers even though they make up the majority of our starting lineup. It is clear they have limitations. No one is denying that. But together they are playing well but right on the razors edge. I think we could win every game we have remaining or lose all but 1 (ASU). BYU is coming in playing very well and IMO what allowed us to win that game was repeated timely 3's by Love. I don't think we can count on that but hopefully our big guys can help. I will say I don't know how you play Tobe and V together in this game because of the fact that the majority of shots from BYU will come from 3. I'll let our coaching staff figure that out.

[Chicat]

I like some of our transfers. Bradley and Awaka for obvious reasons. A guy like Love as a single season bucket-getter.

What I’m not high on are the mid-major reaches, or more specifically the reasons why they are necessary. Limit those, and I think we will be fine. But I’ll never balk at getting younger, highly-rated guys who other top schools had in their program for a year or two.

[Fishclamps]

I don't have an issue with any of them but Townsend

[JMarkJohns]

I don't have an issue with any of them but Townsend

But Trey was Tommy’s priority. ADO was backup backup with it was obvious Sanon and Will Riley weren’t going to be joining us after reclassifying.

And nothing in my post suggested I’m anti-transfer. I’m against a revolving door mentality. Half the transfers Tommy has brought in are one-year transfers and of them, Keshon Johnson was the best, and he was a role player.

So, yeah, having a foundation of prep talent then being able to go all-in on that one multi-year transfer or International prospect would actually do Tommy a favor. He’s good at it when he’s not needing multiple of each because prep recruiting is one playable prospect yearly, which is what it’s been for 3 years now.

[Fishclamps]

Oh I don't mind transfers either, and I agree that he needs to be offering more than 4 people a year, I'm just saying he whiffed huge with Townsend. At least ADO tries.

[Merkin]

Trey Townsend is a 6'6" PF with no outside game. Don't think it's really a shock to anyone. What probably surprises me most is his lack of basketball IQ for a super senior.

[JMarkJohns]

One advantage to prep recruits over transfers is getting them in your system and being able to know they hold value, call it the Henri Veesaar Corollary, vs a transfer where you are projecting fit and attitude.

It’s not just that Trey isn’t a good player, he is a middling attitude to even bad attitude as well. He isn’t aggressive, doesn’t battle, slinks away from rebounding at this level, doesn’t defend anywhere. Effort and Attitude impact is even negative.

Having the players in house lets you know whether they are a continued good fit. That has never been more valuable.

[JMarkJohns]

And obviously Veesaar is an International, but he was a freshman and a system built player.

If Lewis stays for next year, he is a great example of this. His attitude and aggression is excellent for this team’s mindset. His impact goes beyond stats. And he’s evolving to be a (often inefficient) playmaker. But that in-house development could be huge for Arizona this March and next year.

You can more easily trust a player like KJ because you know, and don’t just project.

This is especially the case vs graduate transfers who I would start to trend away from unless they want to be an Kier-type. Impact is minimal vs multi-year developed transfers or preps.

[UAEebs86]

It’s not just that Trey isn’t a good player, he is a middling attitude to even bad attitude as well. He isn’t aggressive, doesn’t battle, slinks away from rebounding at this level, doesn’t defend anywhere. Effort and Attitude impact is even negative.

How do you explain his game in the tourney against Kentucky? Just a blind squirrel finding a nut? He looks like a completely different player here.

[Fishclamps]

I would chalk that up to Calipari phoning it in his last few seasons at Kentucky and that they weren't actually good at all and Townsend got hot

[PHXCATS]

Good interview with Lloyd

I support Lloyd 100%

[dmjcat]

Rick Pitino is moving away from recruiting HS players

https://www.nj.com/sports/2025/02/big-e ... njury.html

“In some respects, [the portal] makes my job easier, in some respects, it doesn’t,” Pitino said at Big East Media Day. “I probably will never go to a young man’s home again. We just go straight to the negotiating table at St. John’s.”

Obviously, his comment served as a wake-up call for high school players, their coaches and their advocates -- and drew some criticism.

[Alieberman]

I just watched Tommy's ASU post game news conference. For those here who always seem to be worried / anxious when coaching jobs open up, fearful that Tommy will bolt...

He started talking about family and revealed (news to me at least) that not only have his parents moved to Tucson, his wife's parents have also moved here.

He's not going anywhere.

[TheCat]

I would chalk that up to Calipari phoning it in his last few seasons at Kentucky and that they weren't actually good at all and Townsend got hot

I would say you don't know anything about his background if you think he just got hot. Allow me to refresh your memory.

You also would not know why he looked like a good transfer get for Tommy. Didn't work out as well as he or the coaching staff wanted. A reminder of what he accomplished:

#HLMBB Player of the Year
#HLMBB First Team All-League
#HLMBB Tournament MVP and All-Tournament Team member
#HLMBB First Team All-Academic
NABC District 12 First Team All-District
Played and started in all 36 games, led the team in minutes (36.4 per game), field goals made (220), free throws made (169), scoring (17.3), rebounds (8.1), assists (111) and steals (48)
Scored a career-high 38 points in the #HLMBB Tournament Championship Game, brought down 11 rebounds and dished out five assists in 40 minutes of play
Joined Kevin Durant (Texas, 2007) as the only players to score 35+ points, 10+ rebounds and play 40+ minutes in a conference championship game in the last 25 years. Townsend's also the only player in the last 15 years to record at least 35 points, 10 rebounds and five assists in a regulation conference tournament game.

Maybe that is why Tommy wanted him and thought he would be more productive than he ended up being.

We have a hell of alot of psychics on this board. Hindsight is 20/20 but this board seems to change during the season. We went from all our Euro being soft to they are great and a strong foundation for the program. We went from Tommy should have spent some time in the junior or small college ranks to develop his skills to his actual proven results. If anyone here can say they predicted a top 3 finish in the Big 12 they just might be a psychics. Coach's in the big 12 predicted 5 and the highest media I ever saw was 4. Don't forget he did this with one of the worst rosters in Arizona history according to many.

This team has flaws there is no doubt. The biggest being no reliable 3 point shooter that has proven they can get off their own shot. They try to make up for it by rebounding hard and trusting each other. There will be more losses in the near future but it won't take away from what they have accomplished. I am proud of what they accomplished in their first year in the big 12 but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

[TheCat]

I just watched Tommy's ASU post game news conference. For those here who always seem to be worried / anxious when coaching jobs open up, fearful that Tommy will bolt...

He started talking about family and revealed (news to me at least) that not only have his parents moved to Tucson, his wife's parents have also moved here.

He's not going anywhere.

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

[Merkin]

Not going back and look, but don't think anyone expected a lot out of Townsend and Awaka. They are both 2" too short for their positions.

And we can all agree that Lloyd has done a fantastic job coaching up this mediocre talented team. Wish nothing but the best for Love and Townsend, true Wildcats, but time to move on.

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

Tucsonans.

[TheCat]

Thanks for the spelling fix. Appreciate it.

[dmjcat]

I just watched Tommy's ASU post game news conference. For those here who always seem to be worried / anxious when coaching jobs open up, fearful that Tommy will bolt...

He started talking about family and revealed (news to me at least) that not only have his parents moved to Tucson, his wife's parents have also moved here.

He's not going anywhere.

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

Face it people. Townsend/Awaka/ADO were what CTL could afford.

If money wasn't involved CTL would have pursued better prospects. And this problem ($NIL$) isn't going to get better for the UA anytime soon.

[azcat49]

I think in basketball it’s much easier to find that magic. While I do think our talent level has slipped, I do think with some tweaking we can find an affordable roster that can still get us to the promised land. I think CTL is a really good coach and I am more than fine with him sticking around for 20 years

[TheCatInTheHat]

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

Tucsonans.

It's a funny thing about etymology. The Tucson Citizen stylebook used Tucsonians (I guess to sound like Bostonians), but it never got any traction or caught on anywhere else. And common usage, however dopey, contradictory, or otherwise, ultimately defines proper usage. Not sure if there's a term for it, but there are some words that started out having the opposite meaning of how they're used today, but the most modern/widest usage is considered the correct one. (And so endeth today's episode of Fun With Language.)

[Merkin]

I used "Tucsonians" one time and was told: "There ain't no 'I' in Tucson, we sure as hell ain't California". Using my Raising Arizona accent there.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Love it!

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Ok, when I was a kid we were Michiganians.
Now we are Michiganders, much to my chagrin. I think it sounds stupid, and I can see why there aren't Wisconsinders, Oregonders, or Washingtonders.
Hey, maybe you could get a horrible governor and she could make you Tucsonders!

Plus isn't Michigander a little out of touch with the times, I mean we should be Michigeese to be gender neutral.

[dovecanyoncat]

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

Tucsonans.

It's a funny thing about etymology. The Tucson Citizen stylebook used Tucsonians (I guess to sound like Bostonians), but it never got any traction or caught on anywhere else. And common usage, however dopey, contradictory, or otherwise, ultimately defines proper usage. Not sure if there's a term for it, but there are some words that started out having the opposite meaning of how they're used today, but the most modern/widest usage is considered the correct one. (And so endeth today's episode of Fun With Language.)

Yes, it just so, irregardless.

[RichardCranium]

"Abject facts"...........Please stop.

Yes please do. Then please look up the word "abject".

Thank you.

This is not targeted specifically at you DMJCAT, several of you are making comments that make no sense at all because your words make no sense. Your post just made a convenient hook from whence to launch my complaint.

[dovecanyoncat]

"Abject facts"...........Please stop.

Yes please do. Then please look up the word "abject".

Thank you.

This is not targeted specifically at you DMJCAT, several of you are making comments that make no sense at all because your words make no sense. Your post just made a convenient hook from whence to launch my complaint.

Never mind that, my lad, I wish to complaint about this adverb.
Lovely adverb the whence, beautiful misusage.

[pc in NM]

I just watched Tommy's ASU post game news conference. For those here who always seem to be worried / anxious when coaching jobs open up, fearful that Tommy will bolt...

He started talking about family and revealed (news to me at least) that not only have his parents moved to Tucson, his wife's parents have also moved here.

He's not going anywhere.

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

Face it people. Townsend/Awaka/ADO were what CTL could afford.

If money wasn't involved CTL would have pursued better prospects. And this problem ($NIL$) isn't going to get better for the UA anytime soon.

Granted, this is certainly possible. But what evidence do you actually have for this contention?

And, without EXPLICIT evidence, it doesn't even amount to a "rumor"...

[Winger]

I just watched Tommy's ASU post game news conference. For those here who always seem to be worried / anxious when coaching jobs open up, fearful that Tommy will bolt...

He started talking about family and revealed (news to me at least) that not only have his parents moved to Tucson, his wife's parents have also moved here.

He's not going anywhere.

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing. He said "were Tucsonians". I think he likes the lifestyle and the team.

Face it people. Townsend/Awaka/ADO were what CTL could afford.

If money wasn't involved CTL would have pursued better prospects. And this problem ($NIL$) isn't going to get better for the UA anytime soon.

Granted, this is certainly possible. But what evidence do you actually have for this contention?

And, without EXPLICIT evidence, it doesn't even amount to a "rumor"...

It is a plausible explanation that plays to Arizona fans much better than “Tommy whiffed on all these transfers”.

But, it is not one I fwiw buy. I have been told recently that Arizona’s NIL is not a limiting problem, by folks close to the program who, probably should be telling me the opposite. I don’t know enough about the NIL world to know if this is true and maybe their song has changed but for now it seems a stretch. I would note that Lloyd has whiffed on several pre-NIL transfers and a gaggle of “Euros” in his short stint so it’s not like there isn’t precedent here.

On the other side, not being able to afford legit transfers and preps makes more sense than “he doesn’t know what he is doing”. However it seems equally probable that there are issues stemming from the timing of, and the manner in which he distributes, his offers. It is well known that he is chintzy with his offer pool and frequently late to the party.

Maybe that worked well at Gonzaga but isn’t at Arizona?

Big off season coming up.

[TheCat]

So the Euro he whiffed on....was it Pelle, Ballo (not tech a euro ) was it Mo, V, Keir which ones specifically are you saying were a whiff. We had a few that got no playing time that transferred after one year. But that could be said for Ballo as well as V. Not sure impatience is a whiff on Tommy's part.

The one thing I have learned is NO ONE on this board has any idea of the timing or manner he distributes his offers unless it is announced by the recipient. A perfect example is Arenas where this board was in an uproar about him not being offered when it was disclosed he had received it months earlier. So I take it with a grain of salt when anyone says they know how much effort Tommy or other coaches put in to recruiting or the timing. When I follow some recruits and they are interviewed by the so called "media" on who is recruiting them the hardest or contacting them the most I often hear Arizona as being one of those teams. Doesn't mean we get them but I know we have tried.

I agree a big off season is coming up. My focus will be on demonstrated transfers as much or more than freshman. Hoping for a great 3 pt shooter. I predict we are probably going to lose 1-2 big men to NIL in the transfer market. We have a 5 star wing/4 coming in with size but not a reliable shooter. Sounds like a good defender but he is a freshman so who knows.

I think what players are seeing is that at Arizona their development is taken seriously and to some that will be attractive. To others it will be NIL.

[Merkin]

Borovicanin, Bal, Murauskas, Aristode and so on. ADO is of course Australian.

Going way back, I remember when pretty much all foreign players were called "Euros".

I think we can all agree that Lloyd has just an incredible job getting this team to the top 3/4 of the B12.

One thing he has been unable to do though is keep Love in check. Love said he came to Arizona so he could learn better shot selection. Even though Tommy has told him to just catch and shoot, he still cannot resist shooting on ball 3s. Haven't seen stats lately, but he shoots 3s 10% higher when catching and shooting.

[Postmaster]

I used "Tucsonians" one time and was told: "There ain't no 'I' in Tucson, we sure as hell ain't California". Using my Raising Arizona accent there.

Word!

[TheCat]

I don't think Adama who averaged 14.4 pts per game or Murauskas who averaged 12.8 were misses in any reasonable definition. Adama Led his team and was seventh in the WCC in scoring at 14.4 points per game ... Named First Team All-WCC and Second Team NABC All-Region ... Averaged a team-high 31.2 minutes per contest ... Shot 43.3 percent from the field, 35.4 from 3-point range and team-best 82.1 percent from the free throw line ... Led team, ninth in WCC, with 93 assists (3.1 per game). I think you can agree that wasn't a miss.

I think they were playing with future pro's in front of them and wanted to play now. I think Tommy saw their potential early on but everyone has a say in what they want. To be honest I don't remember Aristode at all and I think Borovicanin is playing at New Mexico.

I will never forget Adama's 2 - 3 pointers against UCLA at the end of the half. Think that is what won us the game.

I think calling guys that choose to transfer but certainly had talent "a miss" is to mislabel them.

[Fishclamps]

I don't think Adama who averaged 14.4 pts per game or Murauskas who averaged 12.8 were misses in any reasonable definition. Adama Led his team and was seventh in the WCC in scoring at 14.4 points per game ... Named First Team All-WCC and Second Team NABC All-Region ... Averaged a team-high 31.2 minutes per contest ... Shot 43.3 percent from the field, 35.4 from 3-point range and team-best 82.1 percent from the free throw line ... Led team, ninth in WCC, with 93 assists (3.1 per game). I think you can agree that wasn't a miss.

I think they were playing with future pro's in front of them and wanted to play now. I think Tommy saw their potential early on but everyone has a say in what they want. To be honest I don't remember Aristode at all and I think Borovicanin is playing at New Mexico.

I will never forget Adama's 2 - 3 pointers against UCLA at the end of the half. Think that is what won us the game.

I think calling guys that choose to transfer but certainly had talent "a miss" is to mislabel them.

Aristode hasn't even played in college yet

[Postmaster]

I guess "miss" is applicable if you get guys who will leave after a season.
But, it's very hard to know if a 18 year old is going to have the attitude of Bryant or KJ, OR that of Kobi Simmons or Pauly Mountains. (Or that Canadian guy)

[RichardCranium]

Ok, when I was a kid we were Michiganians.
Now we are Michiganders, much to my chagrin. I think it sounds stupid, and I can see why there aren't Wisconsinders, Oregonders, or Washingtonders.
Hey, maybe you could get a horrible governor and she could make you Tucsonders!

Plus isn't Michigander a little out of touch with the times, I mean we should be Michigeese to be gender neutral.

Its been Michigander my whole life. And my parents whole lives. And their parents whole lives.

I suspect Michiganians was invented by someone who was never a Michigander in the first place.

[RichardCranium]

"Abject facts"...........Please stop.

Yes please do. Then please look up the word "abject".

Thank you.

This is not targeted specifically at you DMJCAT, several of you are making comments that make no sense at all because your words make no sense. Your post just made a convenient hook from whence to launch my complaint.

Never mind that, my lad, I wish to complaint about this adverb.
Lovely adverb the whence, beautiful misusage.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Is it proper to say "from whence"?
The fact is that both the phrase and the bare adverb have been used for centuries, and there is nothing wrong with either. Whatever the condemnations that sometimes are made, from whence is well established, and you should feel free to use it, or not. We won't think you vicious either way.

[dovecanyoncat]

"Abject facts"...........Please stop.

Yes please do. Then please look up the word "abject".

Thank you.

This is not targeted specifically at you DMJCAT, several of you are making comments that make no sense at all because your words make no sense. Your post just made a convenient hook from whence to launch my complaint.

Never mind that, my lad, I wish to complaint about this adverb.
Lovely adverb the whence, beautiful misusage.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Is it proper to say "from whence"?
The fact is that both the phrase and the bare adverb have been used for centuries, and there is nothing wrong with either. Whatever the condemnations that sometimes are made, from whence is well established, and you should feel free to use it, or not. We won't think you vicious either way.

In other words, use it irregardless of the grammar Nazis.

[Merkin]

Ok, when I was a kid we were Michiganians.
Now we are Michiganders, much to my chagrin. I think it sounds stupid, and I can see why there aren't Wisconsinders, Oregonders, or Washingtonders.
Hey, maybe you could get a horrible governor and she could make you Tucsonders!

Plus isn't Michigander a little out of touch with the times, I mean we should be Michigeese to be gender neutral.

Its been Michigander my whole life. And my parents whole lives. And their parents whole lives.

I suspect Michiganians was invented by someone who was never a Michigander in the first place.

Same. I grew up in Battle Creek, and it was always Michiganders.

But the Yoopers are a different breed and never should have been part of Michigan anyway. Just a consolation prize for losing Toledo.

Although like Alaska, certainly worked out better.

[Winger]

If a fucking “Euro” commits to you and plays 5
min per game his freshman season and then transfers its a fucking whiff.

Pelle wasnt a Lloyd recruit.

The rule of thumb for euros at Arizona under Lloyd to date is whiffage.

Which, being a huge Lloyd guy, is and has been shocking.

[TheCat]

So V was a whiff? Ballo was a whiff for the Zags. Wow.....glad you clarified that for me. The guy that was rated the number 1 transfer in the market was a whiff with a reported $1M NIL deal. Didn't know. I guess any player that takes time to develop is a whiff in your mind. You have already indicated to us all how confident you are in your own judgement of players. Is there any time when fucking results every factor in your confident judgement or is it just "gut feel"?

I think most folks recognize these are kids away from their country, in a different style of basketball and have the grace to give them a chance to adjust and develop. But not the all confident Winger he knows more. Let me just ask if a Euro played 6 mins would he be considered a whiff ? Just how many minutes are required from our soft Euros?

Oh you are a huge Lloyd guy? Don't make me pull up your previous posts. If anyone is interested they can look but they are on par with your 5 min Euro assessment.

[UAEebs86]

Ballo is not a Euro.

Carry on.