Bear Down Wildcats

What the relationship again? Are they just really good friends or is there a family relation?

CalStateTempe wrote:What the relationship again? Are they just really good friends or is there a family relation?

BFFs.

Call needs to get on that Miller offseason diet pronto.

PennZona20 wrote:Call needs to get on that Miller offseason diet pronto.

First thought made me think of this image. RIP coach!

I sometimes wonder if players are impressed by coaches who are fit enough to actually get out there during practice and demonstrate what they want done, beyond just walking through it and yelling a lot. You figure that younger guys like Cuonzo and Shaka and Wojo can still play a little, or maybe a lot!

Merkin wrote:

PennZona20 wrote:Call needs to get on that Miller offseason diet pronto.

First thought made me think of this image. RIP coach!

Me, too, and I knew you thought of it as well. I almost posted it right after you posted the image above, but then decided not to out of respect for playing hide the sausage.

Beachcat97 wrote:I sometimes wonder if players are impressed by coaches who are fit enough to actually get out there during practice and demonstrate what they want done, beyond just walking through it and yelling a lot. You figure that younger guys like Cuonzo and Shaka and Wojo can still play a little, or maybe a lot!

Most coaches I ever played for could pick up a ball and sink 9 of 10 free throws, or a bat and send some balls over the fence. They aren't going to be able to run up and down the floor with guys more than a few trips without sucking some air, but I would bet the bank that you could throw Miller out on the floor with his guys and run a quick half-court game and his players would be impressed.

Never realized Archie is to tiny.

Of course never kept him from getting a hot wife.

We tried the indirect method, now hear this!

Just get us a damn point guard, will ya? I mean, what the hell? Everyone can see it. You're blowing up what would otherwise be Final Four rosters.

Do. Your. Job.

(See? Easy peasy.)

P.S. Congrats on the latest raise. Well-deserved.

I think that 97 was frustrated because PJC's camp complained to CSM when it looked like PJC was being recruited over. Subsequently, CSM backed down on some of the better pg's over the last few years. If true, lesson learned hopefully

84Cat wrote:I think that 97 was frustrated because PJC's camp complained to CSM when it looked like PJC was being recruited over. Subsequently, CSM backed down on some of the better pg's over the last few years. If true, lesson learned hopefully

this is part of the reason, Cartwright and the Cartwright people were not having it, and didn't want and made it be known (were not shy at all) he wasn't to be recruited over, and for whatever reason Sean Miller listened.

so in a way Cartwright got what he wanted...even though hes not to be critiqued or criticized cause its not his fault.

now Arizona is stuck with what it has for the second season in a row, a loaded Final Four caliber roster with a short, weak, leaderless, back-up player at best being counted on for 25+ mpg at the PG spot.

thats maddening to say the least, but more perplexing when focusing on Sean Miller, given his inability to get to the Final Four so far in his young career, hes entrusting a loaded team to a player who has proven time and time again hes not capable.

Of course, Parker can be critiqued. So can the coach. And this is definitely more on him than the Cartwrights (cue "Bonanza" theme). He is a multi-million dollar coach in charge of an elite program. A grown-ass man well into his fifth decade.

That's who is 100 percent responsible.

He's gotten no elite point guards from the high school ranks. The one five-star he landed had more red flags than the Bay of Pigs. He's gotten elite players in every other position. He's gotten next to no flack for it in his own thread -- and hardly anywhere else either. It's Parker this and Parker that.

Our best PG was a transfer. If that's what it takes, do it again. But for now, Miller has to be rated a failure in recruiting/staffing that position, especially if Parker is as bad as described (year 8 of Miller's tenure). But, for some reason, whatever PG we have (other than TJ) takes the brunt of the criticism. Like they're supposed to decline to enter the games? "I'm not worthy!"

So, sure, no player is immune from criticism, but make it proportional to responsibility. Follow the money. That's where the power is. That's where the decisions are made.

Leads you right to Sean Miller. Don't be shy.

gumby wrote:Of course, Parker can be critiqued. So can the coach. And this is definitely more on him than the Cartwrights (cue "Bonanza" theme). He is a multi-million dollar coach in charge of an elite program. A grown-ass man well into his fifth decade.

That's who is 100 percent responsible.

He's gotten no elite point guards from the high school ranks. The one five-star he landed had more red flags than the Bay of Pigs. He's gotten elite players in every other position. He's gotten next to no flack for it in his own thread -- and hardly anywhere else either. It's Parker this and Parker that.

Our best PG was a transfer. If that's what it takes, do it again. But for now, Miller has to be rated a failure in recruiting/staffing that position, especially if Parker is as bad as described (year 8 of Miller's tenure). But, for some reason, whatever PG we have (other than TJ) takes the brunt of the criticism. Like they're supposed to decline to enter the games? "I'm not worthy!"

So, sure, no player is immune from criticism, but make it proportional to responsibility. Follow the money. That's where the power is. That's where the decisions are made.

Leads you right to Sean Miller. Don't be shy.

Why can't it be both? I'm sure this is what Parker's camp wanted just as much as Miller.

I disagree that a history of Momo, Josiah, Lyons, TJ and PJC is failure on Miller's part. Momo was way over who most coaches pull in that situation. Josiah had talent, just not the mindset. Lyons was a backup plan driven by Josiah's flameout. TJ was a win. PJC has been dissected enough in this thread and others.

I also think it's unrealistic to think fans can see a player not play well and expect them not to jump the player. Players get criticized when they disappoint. Heck, how many people consistently get on Dusan for being slow?

PG's are a much smaller market to begin with. Hitting one 5 star, two 4 stars and two good transfers is not exactly failing.

We're about enter year 9 of Miller at Arizona and that first final four for Miller and Arizona's 5th is looking a couple of years away.

Year 9: F4 caliber loaded team will likely win 30+ with a weak ooc schedule and PAC 12. The PG deficiency can be masked during the reg. season. Will catch up to the team and br wasted in the tournament due to the PG play. Window closed.

Year 10: talented, but in rebuild mode losing everyone except 3-4 guys. Team of mostly freshman and sophomores, too young. And not talented enough like Kentucky's classes.

Year 11: F4 Window opens; the 17' & '18 classes don't look like they have any surefire OADs (unless Bol, Bagley commit), so this team could make a run at the F4. But only if no one transfers out or leaves for the NBA. Even then mostly sophomores, only 3 Jrs (if Randolph doesn't declare) and freshman.

Year 12: who knows? Too far to look forward to. Windows is still open I guess.

The point is this F4 window of opportunity was wasted because of the most important position was the weakest point.

NYCat wrote:We're about enter year 9 of Miller at Arizona and that first final four for Miller and Arizona's 5th is looking a couple of years away.

Year 9: F4 caliber loaded team will likely win 30+ with a weak ooc schedule and PAC 12. The PG deficiency can be masked during the reg. season. Will catch up to the team and br wasted in the tournament due to the PG play. Window closed.

Year 10: talented, but in rebuild mode losing everyone except 3-4 guys. Team of mostly freshman and sophomores, too young. And not talented enough like Kentucky's classes.

Year 11: F4 Window opens; the 17' & '18 classes don't look like they have any surefire OADs (unless Bol, Bagley commit), so this team could make a run at the F4. But only if no one transfers out or leaves for the NBA. Even then mostly sophomores, only 3 Jrs (if Randolph doesn't declare) and freshman.

Year 12: who knows? Too far to look forward to. Windows is still open I guess.

The point is this F4 window of opportunity was wasted because of the most important position was the weakest point.

When we start saying Final Four's aren't happening for a while, I'd say South Carolina. The tournament isn't some monolith that's easy to predict.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When we start saying Final Four's aren't happening for a while, I'd say South Carolina. The tournament isn't some monolith that's easy to predict.

The reliance on round 4 instead of round 3 as "making it" in this sport is so fkn insane to me. But marketing is marketing.

Out of maybe 100 actual competitive teams, the final 8 in baseball is considered "making it" in the CWS.

In football, now, out of 122 teams, making the Final Four is "making it" in football

In basketball, out of 300+ teams, in a sport where mid-majors can thrive much easier than the other sports, going 3-1 in 3 of 5 years is considered failure because of a marketing slogan?

I understand it is how too many people think, but I, personally, think it is dumb as hell. I'd rather win 3 and make 17 Elite Eights than hit a lucky 4th once and be a regular first weekend flameout. But I feel the pressure for our program, too, to get that final four. I just think the rationale behind it, behind labeling a program that came from the pit of hell to the verge of this magical marketing slogan 3 times in 5 years, that regularly plays in the 2nd weekend of the tournament and averages a 2nd weekend in the tournament under this coach, is ludicrous.

This year's loss sucked. But it also shows how one team can throw up one prayer of a hail mary (zone packed in tight as a virgin, giving warm up looks from 3), get lucky, and end another team's season.

And, yeah...South Fucking Carolina...

Miller admitted to me that he has done some soul searching about his sideline comportment as well. He got to this level of success by being famously intense – who can ever forget him sweating through his white dress shirt during Arizona’s first-round game against Wichita State last year – but he is starting to wonder whether he should dial that back in critical moments. “The longer you do this, the more you realize from an intensity perspective, sometimes the environment is enough,” he concedes.

All I can say is finally.

NYCat wrote:

Miller admitted to me that he has done some soul searching about his sideline comportment as well. He got to this level of success by being famously intense – who can ever forget him sweating through his white dress shirt during Arizona’s first-round game against Wichita State last year – but he is starting to wonder whether he should dial that back in critical moments. “The longer you do this, the more you realize from an intensity perspective, sometimes the environment is enough,” he concedes.

All I can say is finally.

+2

WTG coach, love the introspection and continued growth.

He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

Nice article. Guess we will always ponder why we were so passive and lacked confident against Xavier

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

Call me stupid but I would give him a lifetime contract right now and not feel bad about that decision

CalStateTempe wrote:

NYCat wrote:

Miller admitted to me that he has done some soul searching about his sideline comportment as well. He got to this level of success by being famously intense – who can ever forget him sweating through his white dress shirt during Arizona’s first-round game against Wichita State last year – but he is starting to wonder whether he should dial that back in critical moments. “The longer you do this, the more you realize from an intensity perspective, sometimes the environment is enough,” he concedes.

All I can say is finally.

+2

WTG coach, love the introspection and continued growth.

Spot on, CST.

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

You should feel fortunate to participate in online community filled with individuals who not only know how to Miller's job better than he does... they are among the best in the world at their chosen professions.

Miller is well paid and deserves to be accountable. But the fixation on what he has not accomplished, and the occasional dismissal of what he has, is fucking ridiculous. His track record of excellence is not debatable.

We're not talking about Rich Rodriguez, here, people.

azcat49 wrote:Call me stupid but I would give him a lifetime contract right now and not feel bad about that decision

As usual we are sharing a brain... hope you are well. We have to hook up for a beer or 3 sometime.

If Miller doesn't get us to a final 4 within the next 20 years I think we really need to take a serious look at replacing him.

It never ceases to amaze me that people expect rational discussion on a literally fanatical message board.

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

There is no hard and fast answer to this question. If we are a top five team and in the Elite Eight seven years in a row, you're firing the guy? Or maybe the NCAA is so mad at North Carolina that they reduce our available scholarships to 7 for five years straight. Maybe he is under .500 for three straight years?

Preset time periods are dumb. Evaluate what actually happens.

I am in the lifetime contract camp. I would not hesitate for a second to do that deal.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

There is no hard and fast answer to this question. If we are a top five team and in the Elite Eight seven years in a row, you're firing the guy? Or maybe the NCAA is so mad at North Carolina that they reduce our available scholarships to 7 for five years straight. Maybe he is under .500 for three straight years?

Preset time periods are dumb. Evaluate what actually happens.

I am in the lifetime contract camp. I would not hesitate for a second to do that deal.

Without looking it up can you tell me how many regular season conference titles these coaches have?

Roy Williams
Coach K
Coach Cal
Dean Smith
Lute

EVCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When we start saying Final Four's aren't happening for a while, I'd say South Carolina. The tournament isn't some monolith that's easy to predict.

The reliance on round 4 instead of round 3 as "making it" in this sport is so fkn insane to me. But marketing is marketing.

Out of maybe 100 actual competitive teams, the final 8 in baseball is considered "making it" in the CWS.

In football, now, out of 122 teams, making the Final Four is "making it" in football

In basketball, out of 300+ teams, in a sport where mid-majors can thrive much easier than the other sports, going 3-1 in 3 of 5 years is considered failure because of a marketing slogan?

I understand it is how too many people think, but I, personally, think it is dumb as hell. I'd rather win 3 and make 17 Elite Eights than hit a lucky 4th once and be a regular first weekend flameout. But I feel the pressure for our program, too, to get that final four. I just think the rationale behind it, behind labeling a program that came from the pit of hell to the verge of this magical marketing slogan 3 times in 5 years, that regularly plays in the 2nd weekend of the tournament and averages a 2nd weekend in the tournament under this coach, is ludicrous.

This year's loss sucked. But it also shows how one team can throw up one prayer of a hail mary (zone packed in tight as a virgin, giving warm up looks from 3), get lucky, and end another team's season.

And, yeah...South Fucking Carolina...

That's the thing. People get so hyperfocused on the NCAA Tournament they completely disregard everything else. Tournament is merely one part of an entire season. Was George Mason the third or fourth best team in the country the year they went to the final four? You cannot put so much stock in a single elimination tournament with a field that big and diverse. Anyone here who has played in sports tournaments past a certain age have seen that mediocre or even below mediocre team catch lightning in a bottle at the right time, or get every bounce that week and win the tournament. If it isn't a best of 3 series or more, I have a hard time crowning teams going deep into tournaments as the best, unless their success their parallels their regular season success. 30 wins is a big deal. Regular season conference titles are a big deal. Putting players in the league and pulling top talent on a yearly basis are big deals. The conference tournament is icing on the cake. I want a final four and a title more as much as anyone here, but anyone who uses 1 less win in a season as a reason to ignore the big picture success is either crazy, or is a hater looking for that one chink in Miller's/Arizona's armor just to talk shit. I mean look at ASU fans, what is the ONE thing they have always brought up when they try to talk shit about Arizona basketball? Back then it was Lute's early flameouts, followed by his inability to advance in the final four once he got there. With Miller, it is that elite 8 win. That says something and it definitely is nitpicking when they are a program who has given the world James Harden and virtually nothing else.

azcat49 wrote:Call me stupid but I would give him a lifetime contract right now and not feel bad about that decision

Call me stupid too. All day every day - this.

People who wonder how long is too long without a Final Four??? Are you f'n kidding me? Arizona would be lucky to get a coach half as good as Miller is were he to leave. Flaws and all.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

There is no hard and fast answer to this question. If we are a top five team and in the Elite Eight seven years in a row, you're firing the guy? Or maybe the NCAA is so mad at North Carolina that they reduce our available scholarships to 7 for five years straight. Maybe he is under .500 for three straight years?

Preset time periods are dumb. Evaluate what actually happens.

I am in the lifetime contract camp. I would not hesitate for a second to do that deal.

Without looking it up can you tell me how many regular season conference titles these coaches have?

Roy Williams
Coach K
Coach Cal
Dean Smith
Lute

No. I like college basketball, but I cannot recite conference championships of 5 different coaches.

I don't exactly see what that has to do with it, either.

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

If he is winning conference championships and averaging 2nd weekend runs?

I don't fire a guy that averages better than a Sweet 16 because of one game. That is chasing, and its a good way to find yourself 5 years in the future saying "remember when we used to make the tournament?"

How is this even a real discussion? With the exception of Machina, the Arizona fan base is as happy with Miller as Miller is with being at Arizona.

This conversation is plainly driven by one individual's personal resentment and ill will.

azcat49 wrote:Call me stupid but I would give him a lifetime contract right now and not feel bad about that decision

Agree 100%

Harvey Specter wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

You should feel fortunate to participate in online community filled with individuals who not only know how to Miller's job better than he does... they are among the best in the world at their chosen professions.

Miller is well paid and deserves to be accountable. But the fixation on what he has not accomplished, and the occasional dismissal of what he has, is fucking ridiculous. His track record of excellence is not debatable.

We're not talking about Rich Rodriguez, here, people.

Exactly. There are some things Miller does that some may not agree with and that is fine, there is no such thing as a flawless coach. But at the end of the day, quite a bit of it is either wrong or petty. There is a reason Miller is a consensus top 10 coach and there is a reason why so many of the best preps want to play for him, and there is a reason none of us are head coaches of anything but our kids' YMCA teams. When people are on that ledge they need to take a step back and think, if Miller left, how many coaches are there that you can bring in and it would be an upgrade or at least an even trade? That list is small. The list gets smaller when you start to remove the coaches who are seemingly in their last years of coaching. That list gets smaller when you account for coaches who would come here but jump at a Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Louisville type of job down the road. That list gets even smaller when you account for who would actually come here in the first place. Then when you account for likeability, recruiting prowess and youth, there probably is no list. We can sit here and cream over a Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens, but that aint happening, lets be real. And remember, Shaka Smart and Kevin Ollie are two guys who would have been on such list a few years back, but now look at both of their situations. Gives some perspective to the whole thing.

Miller is Arizona now and he is the best coach for Arizona. The only reason we landed him was because we struck before the iron was at its hottest and we had some help from Calipari. To say it was a home run hire would still be an understatement. As part of striking before the iron is at its hottest, we need to deal with the speed bumps and growth cycle because someday, the payoff is going to be huge. We just dont know when.

EVCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

If he is winning conference championships and averaging 2nd weekend runs?

I don't fire a guy that averages better than a Sweet 16 because of one game. That is chasing, and its a good way to find yourself 5 years in the future saying "remember when we used to make the tournament?"

It's also how you end up with a Steve Alford as your head coach.

Unless you can somehow guarantee that you can hire Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens away from the NBA if you let go of Miller there's not a single reason to ever part with the man and I will gladly hold on to him until he decides he no longer wants to be here. Any one arguing differently isn't even worth discussing the topic with as they are morons.

ChooChooCat wrote:

EVCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

If he is winning conference championships and averaging 2nd weekend runs?

I don't fire a guy that averages better than a Sweet 16 because of one game. That is chasing, and its a good way to find yourself 5 years in the future saying "remember when we used to make the tournament?"

It's also how you end up with a Steve Alford as your head coach.

Unless you can guarantee that you can hire Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens away from the NBA if you let go of Miller there's not a single reason to ever part with the man and I will gladly hold on to him until he decides he no longer wants to be here. Any one arguing differently isn't even worth discussing the topic with as they are morons.

But whether or not they are morons, their arguments need to be coherent, not based on some casual formulation and vague hypotheticals about the future without any context.

That goes without saying.

Well, to be fair, giving Miller 7 more years isn't as bad an argument as thinking PJC isn't much of a drop off from TJ. Ignore button time

I need PJC to greatly exceed expectations next season and silence his (and CSM's) critics.

ChooChooCat wrote:

EVCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

If he is winning conference championships and averaging 2nd weekend runs?

I don't fire a guy that averages better than a Sweet 16 because of one game. That is chasing, and its a good way to find yourself 5 years in the future saying "remember when we used to make the tournament?"

It's also how you end up with a Steve Alford as your head coach.

Unless you can somehow guarantee that you can hire Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens away from the NBA if you let go of Miller there's not a single reason to ever part with the man and I will gladly hold on to him until he decides he no longer wants to be here. Any one arguing differently isn't even worth discussing the topic with as they are morons.

There is a very, very short list of coaches that could be seen as improvements over Miller. I tend to agree that having Donovan or Stevens begging to come here are basically the only two scenarios where you can see an upgrade.

Of course, PHXCATS would respond by asking what happens if Miller wins exactly 22 games per year over the next 4 years in a complete vacuum.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

EVCat wrote:He's a relatively young coach still...we get him as he is peaking.

Unless our dumbass contingent of "Final Four Now Or Leave" fans run him off...

How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

There is no hard and fast answer to this question. If we are a top five team and in the Elite Eight seven years in a row, you're firing the guy? Or maybe the NCAA is so mad at North Carolina that they reduce our available scholarships to 7 for five years straight. Maybe he is under .500 for three straight years?

Preset time periods are dumb. Evaluate what actually happens.

I am in the lifetime contract camp. I would not hesitate for a second to do that deal.

Without looking it up can you tell me how many regular season conference titles these coaches have?

Roy Williams
Coach K
Coach Cal
Dean Smith
Lute

No. I like college basketball, but I cannot recite conference championships of 5 different coaches.

I don't exactly see what that has to do with it, either.

Coaching facts for fans with short attention spans?

Machina, quick! How many Final Fours do each of those coaches have? Stupid question is stupid.

Longhorned wrote:How is this even a real discussion? With the exception of Machina, the Arizona fan base is as happy with Miller as Miller is with being at Arizona.

This conversation is plainly driven by one individual's personal resentment and ill will.

One person who posts a lot. Are Beachcat and Machina cousins?

Puerco wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote: How long do you give him to not make the final four? I said seven more before and feel that is adequate.

There is no hard and fast answer to this question. If we are a top five team and in the Elite Eight seven years in a row, you're firing the guy? Or maybe the NCAA is so mad at North Carolina that they reduce our available scholarships to 7 for five years straight. Maybe he is under .500 for three straight years?

Preset time periods are dumb. Evaluate what actually happens.

I am in the lifetime contract camp. I would not hesitate for a second to do that deal.

Without looking it up can you tell me how many regular season conference titles these coaches have?

Roy Williams
Coach K
Coach Cal
Dean Smith
Lute

No. I like college basketball, but I cannot recite conference championships of 5 different coaches.

I don't exactly see what that has to do with it, either.

Coaching facts for fans with short attention spans?

Machina, quick! How many Final Fours do each of those coaches have? Stupid question is stupid.

What's the square root of this apartment?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Puerco wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:
Without looking it up can you tell me how many regular season conference titles these coaches have?

Roy Williams
Coach K
Coach Cal
Dean Smith
Lute

No. I like college basketball, but I cannot recite conference championships of 5 different coaches.

I don't exactly see what that has to do with it, either.

Coaching facts for fans with short attention spans?

Machina, quick! How many Final Fours do each of those coaches have? Stupid question is stupid.

What's the square root of this apartment?

Machina's point was that nobody outside a program's fan base knows how many conference championships they've won, but rather how many Final Fours and national titles they have. It's a stripping down of context to the bare bones of an attempt to malign Miller.

But yeah, the square root of that apartment. Do its inhabitants eat tuna? I rest my case.

Why are people trying to malign Miller? For cripes sake, he's taken Arizona to 3 elite eights. If Derrick Williams, Jamelle Horne, TJ McConnell or Nick Johnson hit last second shots, the argument is moot.

What is Arizona's collective shooting percentage in Elite 8 games in the final ten seconds. I think we've missed our last seven:

2003 - Gardner missed 3ptr. at buzzer (only would've tied KU)

2005 - Mcclellan missed wide open 15 footer in regulation that would've beaten Illinois

2005- Adams misses contested 18 footer that would've beaten Illinois in OT.

2011 - Williams misses three pointer with 5 seconds remaining that would've beaten UCONN

2011- Horne misses three pointer at buzzer that would've beaten UCONN

2014- McConnell misses jumper with less than :10 that would've beaten Wisconsin in OT.

2014- Nick Johnson misses at the buzzer that would've beaten Wisconsin (in OT)

I think the basketball gods owe us a few.

If Miller leaves Arizona, he's leaving behind a whole lot of equity.

If he takes a job at UNC or L'Ville, as some suggest, how much equity will he have with the fanbase there? How patient will they be? They'll want immediate results that Miller delivered at Arizona.

So the question is, why would Miller risk a great situation?

I guess the argument could be along the lines of Roy Williams leaving KU for UNC. But Roy had everything in place to win titles at KU. It just didn't happen. And Bill Self proved that shortly after Roy left.

The longer Miller stays at Arizona, the more he'll become attached to the school and the fans and boosters. A risky move to leave when you don't need to take on risk.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Puerco wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: No. I like college basketball, but I cannot recite conference championships of 5 different coaches.

I don't exactly see what that has to do with it, either.

Coaching facts for fans with short attention spans?

Machina, quick! How many Final Fours do each of those coaches have? Stupid question is stupid.

What's the square root of this apartment?

Machina's point was that nobody outside a program's fan base knows how many conference championships they've won, but rather how many Final Fours and national titles they have. It's a stripping down of context to the bare bones of an attempt to malign Miller.

But yeah, the square root of that apartment. Do its inhabitants eat tuna? I rest my case.

Yeah, but I honestly can't tell you how many Final Fours anyone on that list but Lute or Calipari has either, so his point is lost on me. Also, I only really know Cal's number because due to the 2 that got vacated, I don't have to remember more than the last 6 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.urbandic ... amp%3Dtrue" target="_blank

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 937AA8X2MF" target="_blank

I'd also ask if you want to make me a banana cognac.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:Of course, Parker can be critiqued. So can the coach. And this is definitely more on him than the Cartwrights (cue "Bonanza" theme). He is a multi-million dollar coach in charge of an elite program. A grown-ass man well into his fifth decade.

That's who is 100 percent responsible.

He's gotten no elite point guards from the high school ranks. The one five-star he landed had more red flags than the Bay of Pigs. He's gotten elite players in every other position. He's gotten next to no flack for it in his own thread -- and hardly anywhere else either. It's Parker this and Parker that.

Our best PG was a transfer. If that's what it takes, do it again. But for now, Miller has to be rated a failure in recruiting/staffing that position, especially if Parker is as bad as described (year 8 of Miller's tenure). But, for some reason, whatever PG we have (other than TJ) takes the brunt of the criticism. Like they're supposed to decline to enter the games? "I'm not worthy!"

So, sure, no player is immune from criticism, but make it proportional to responsibility. Follow the money. That's where the power is. That's where the decisions are made.

Leads you right to Sean Miller. Don't be shy.

Why can't it be both? I'm sure this is what Parker's camp wanted just as much as Miller.

I disagree that a history of Momo, Josiah, Lyons, TJ and PJC is failure on Miller's part. Momo was way over who most coaches pull in that situation. Josiah had talent, just not the mindset. Lyons was a backup plan driven by Josiah's flameout. TJ was a win. PJC has been dissected enough in this thread and others.

I also think it's unrealistic to think fans can see a player not play well and expect them not to jump the player. Players get criticized when they disappoint. Heck, how many people consistently get on Dusan for being slow?

PG's are a much smaller market to begin with. Hitting one 5 star, two 4 stars and two good transfers is not exactly failing.

It can be both, but it doesn't happen.

I disagree with your assessment of PGs. Even given all the particulars, it's been a relative weakness. And certainly doesn't measure up to what we've had in the past.

That said, I appreciate that you stayed on topic. I wasn't calling for his head, just calling attention to a particular flaw (in my opinion). And you addressed that.

I do like the Seth Davis column and the indication of humility. I like Miller -- a lot.

But my original point stands. If he and PJC entered into some blood oath, the lion's share of the blame lies with the guy running the program.

Even if you believe it can be both -- criticism -- it isn't. Not here, anyway. PJC gets it a lot more.