Bear Down Wildcats

ramcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

ramcat wrote:Talk of Sumlin beginning to assemble staff.

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/stat ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

Schultz has been right about literally nothing ever.

Many more speaking of Sumlin ascending to the top of the list. Assembling possible staff is generally part of interview but ok, sure.

http://footballscoop.com/news/report-sa ... a-for-nfl/" target="_blank

I want a defensive minded guy....but Sumlin - ok I'm in

ProfessorFate wrote:

ramcat wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:You no it Arizona needs above more than anything else? Talent. Talent will breed wins, name recognition, boost attendance, exposure, tv revenue...it all hinges on getting someone to coach that will bring in talent. Sumlin/Miles does that. Salavea, Cecil, Yates, Hunley do not.

Yates can recruit. He and Sumlin will kill it!!

https://247sports.com/Coach/Marcel-Yates-812" target="_blank

Yates can recruit? Yeah, 3 star players, just like anybody else. He's gotten four 4 star players in his career, none of those for Arizona. The only great recruiter we've had the last few years that I can think of bolted to Nebraska after a very short stay.

Combine his recruiting with how bad our defense has played the last two years and I'm anxious for complete staff overhaul.

We need a head coach and staff that, collectively, can consistently bring in a mix of 3 and 4 star recruits, with the potential for the occasional 5 star, and then coach them up. I think that's realistic for Arizona football.

Not just me of the opinion of Yates recruiting skills, read some.
Yates goes, and you're risking losing some of the best in the class and possibly some current players such as Tate and Fields.
Do you think maybe Yates had a bit of a bare cubbard when he came here, with starting DT'S in the 250lb range, not to mention 5 fresh seeing significant time and in most cases starting last year? FFS!
Pretty certain any defense having to be on the field for typically 2/3's of the game or more would be stressed. Check his defenses at Boise St.. In most important D Cat.'s they were in top 25 or better. Last year he was there, they played 8 top 20 teams.
Oh and the "great" recruiter you refer too, has same amount of 4 star recruits as Yates, but ok, sure. Lol!

https://www.foxsports.com/college-footb ... uez-011716" target="_blank

https://247sports.com/Coach/Dont-Williams-1820" target="_blank

My ideal scenario:

Sumlin Head Coach - recruiting and renewed excitement in program, Tate should be happy, keep Joiner and if he flips Sumlin could recruit a backup qb quickly
Salavea - D Line Coach/Assoc Head Coach (break the bank if you have to)- Wildcat blood, but Wildcat blood who is IN college football and would recruit like a mother here
Yates - keep the young and promising defense here and vested in our direction
Rest of the Staff - Sumlin's guys

That would work for me.

HaCats wrote:My ideal scenario:

Sumlin Head Coach - recruiting and renewed excitement in program, Tate should be happy, keep Joiner and if he flips Sumlin could recruit a backup qb quickly
Salavea - D Line Coach/Assoc Head Coach (break the bank if you have to)- Wildcat blood, but Wildcat blood who is IN college football and would recruit like a mother here
Yates - keep the young and promising defense here and vested in our direction
Rest of the Staff - Sumlin's guys

Only issue is we would have to buy out Salavea. His new contract only allows him to move without consequence if he is a HC or DC with play calling abilities. Also, I would like a Cecil coached secondary.

I would like Cecil my concerns are can he coach corners and can he recruit

ProfessorFate wrote:

ramcat wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:You no it Arizona needs above more than anything else? Talent. Talent will breed wins, name recognition, boost attendance, exposure, tv revenue...it all hinges on getting someone to coach that will bring in talent. Sumlin/Miles does that. Salavea, Cecil, Yates, Hunley do not.

Yates can recruit. He and Sumlin will kill it!!

https://247sports.com/Coach/Marcel-Yates-812" target="_blank

Yates can recruit? Yeah, 3 star players, just like anybody else. He's gotten four 4 star players in his career, none of those for Arizona. The only great recruiter we've had the last few years that I can think of bolted to Nebraska after a very short stay.

Combine his recruiting with how bad our defense has played the last two years and I'm anxious for complete staff overhaul.

We need a head coach and staff that, collectively, can consistently bring in a mix of 3 and 4 star recruits, with the potential for the occasional 5 star, and then coach them up. I think that's realistic for Arizona football.

I think if you take a look back at our better recruiting years we were bringing in about a half dozen four stars and basically the rest three stars.

And our hit rate in four stars (where they end up being good players) was probably about 50%.

At Arizona generally you need to be able to 1) uncover a couple gem 2/3 stars a year and 2) recognize those 2/3 stars that can be developed into good or very good players as upperclassmen and then have the ability to develop them.

Relying on significantly more than that is a dangerous proposition statistically.

HaCats wrote:I would like Cecil my concerns are can he coach corners and can he recruit

At Tennessee he was a DB coach and with the Rams he was secondary. Recruiting, well might as well find out. Better than some wanting him to jump straight to HC.

The DLine had a phone call with Heeke telling him they wanted Yates as the head coach. If there is a large booster browsing this board, please, please don't allow that to happen. If he wants to stay with Sumlin, that's fine. But not HBC.

btfd16 wrote:The DLine had a phone call with Heeke telling him they wanted Yates as the head coach. If there is a large booster browsing this board, please, please don't allow that to happen. If he wants to stay with Sumlin, that's fine. But not HBC.

The players' opinion is absolutely meaningless here, especially those that are at risk of being recruited over because they could possibly not fit the system or style of the new defensive coaches. If Heeke were to actually listen to them then he's every thing Chief has claimed him to be at this point and I will call for his head daily. Half the reason RR was let go was awful attendance, if he chooses Yates then he's saying I fully accept such awful attendance from here set forth.

I have seen a couple (at least) of comments about Sumlin's "exciting offense", but I don't see it. If you take a look, aTm was #118 passing, #136 rushing, and #131 total (UA was 226, 4, and 18). That looks pretty shitty to me. Also they scored 425 points (UA scored 537) and they gave up 399 points. UA gave up 447, with a horrible defense, which was 48 points more. Over 13 games, UA gave up less than 4 points a game more than aTm and scored almost 9 points a game more.

Oooh, but aTM is in a harder conference/division, right? Well, yeah, for the top couple of teams. But Sumlin, other than his first year, NEVER got any of his teams higher than 4th in a 7 team division. This, in spite of having top 10 to top 20 recruiting classes.

So, what do we get with Sumlin?

1. Recruits better than RR (but will he be able to in Tucson)?
2. Offense pretty much sucked (ranked #131).
3. Defense pretty much sucked(just not quite as bad as RR's defense)
4. Seems to not be able to coach up the talent he recruits.

If he is hired, I will be more disappointed than I have been since Mackovich.

Texas A&M total offense:

2013-4th
2014-32nd
2015-50th
2016-24th

A&M had QB issues this year.

And what were their defensive issues? Really, the only success that Sumlin has had was in Conference USA (west) Have you looked at those teams?

ETA: Never mind to respond. I know you will support Sumlin, no matter what. I just can't figure out WHY. Because EVERYTHING points to Les Miles being at least as good a recruiter and, based on past success, a much better coach. Sumlin, to me, is a poor retread to hire if the fan base needs to be energized.

BBQ wildcat wrote:And what were their defensive issues? Really, the only success that Sumlin has had was in Conference USA (west) Have you looked at those teams?

Texas A&M total defense rankings:

2013: 111
2014: 104
2015: 51
2016: 90
2017: 78

They got better under Sumlin's watch fwiw.

ChooChooCat wrote:

BBQ wildcat wrote:And what were their defensive issues? Really, the only success that Sumlin has had was in Conference USA (west) Have you looked at those teams?

Texas A&M total defense rankings:

2013: 111
2014: 104
2015: 51
2016: 90
2017: 78

They got better under Sumlin's watch fwiw.

I kind of have trouble believing those numbers. According to the final SEC standings, out of the 14 teams in the SEC (both divisions) aTm gave up more points than all but two of the other teams, Ole Miss and Arkansas, which had a combined record of 4-12.

I rather know the pts per game rankings than total offense.

OSUCat wrote:I rather know the pts per game rankings than total offense.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/sc ... /2013.html" target="_blank

2013: 32.2 (96th in the country) -- Mark Snyder/Marcel Yates Co DCs
2014: 28.1 (80) -- Mark Snyder DC
2015: 22 (20) -- John Chavis hired as DC
2016: 24.5 (30)
2017: 30.7 (87)

I’m having a hard time deciding if Miles or Sumlin would be better. Sumlin is younger with a focus on recruiting. Miles is just a solid head coach that has put together really good defense with really bad offense. Overall, I think Miles is the better Head Coach. Even if Arizona is not LSU in recruitment it would be nice to have a solid head coach again. On the other side, Arizona NEEDS solid recruiting, which seems to be Sumlin wheel house...I just do know...

Points scored per game 2017
UA #8 -- 39.6/game
aTm #25 -- 33.4/game

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-fo ... s-per-game

Points allowed per game 2017
UA # 107 -- 35.2/game
aTm #91 -- 32.1/game

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-fo ... s-per-game

OSUCat wrote:I’m having a hard time deciding if Miles or Sumlin would be better. Sumlin is younger with a focus on recruiting. Miles is just a solid head coach that has put together really good defense with really bad offense. Overall, I think Miles is the better Head Coach. Even if Arizona is not LSU in recruitment it would be nice to have a solid head coach again. On the other side, Arizona NEEDS solid recruiting, which seems to be Sumlin wheel house...I just do know...

I think Sumlin has the higher ceiling, and the lower floor. So Miles is the conservative pick. I think both have the potential to be the most successful coach in Arizona history. Although that’s not saying much.

I want Sumlin. He will put butts in seats and will upgrade our talent level immediately.

BBQ wildcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

BBQ wildcat wrote:And what were their defensive issues? Really, the only success that Sumlin has had was in Conference USA (west) Have you looked at those teams?

Texas A&M total defense rankings:

2013: 111
2014: 104
2015: 51
2016: 90
2017: 78

They got better under Sumlin's watch fwiw.

I kind of have trouble believing those numbers. According to the final SEC standings, out of the 14 teams in the SEC (both divisions) aTm gave up more points than all but two of the other teams, Ole Miss and Arkansas, which had a combined record of 4-12.

It's not like I made those up, take the time to Google total defense rankings.

Wouldn’t be upset with either as both would be an upgrade.

btfd16 wrote:Wouldn’t be upset with either as both would be an upgrade.

And yet probably neither will get you where you want to go...(just guessing)

Sumlin had a great first year with Johnny.

In the past 5 A&M seasons they've played 7 power five teams outside of the SEC (because his 19-21 conference record the past 5 years, never finishing above 4th in the west is seen as immaterial)
4-3 is the record. If you include the Belk Bowl (under the interim) that's 4-4

Excusing away the SEC record, he's still fields .500 teams at the only SEC school in Texas; in a decade when the Longhorns are a mess.

The rational I'm reading is that he's going to continue to crush at 'cruin like he did at the only SEC school located between Dallas and Houston, and recreate that in Tucson. Copy and Paste.

But he won't be bringing the .500 conference record, or the .500 power 5 record, or the bottom of the division standings.


Recap: Just bringing the 5* recruits, leaving the coin-flip coaching behind.

SCCats wrote:

btfd16 wrote:Wouldn’t be upset with either as both would be an upgrade.

And yet probably neither will get you where you want to go...(just guessing)

This may have been a joke and sorry if its over my head... but upgrades equal recruiting equal better talent equal more attendance equal more money equal another coaching upgrade. It’s a marathon not a sprint. As much as I’d love for the next coach to win a ship, I understand Arizona isn’t a destination. Yet. I feel both may be able to help a step in the right direction, even if they move on to another job. Just leave Arizona better than they found it.

btfd16 wrote:

SCCats wrote:

btfd16 wrote:Wouldn’t be upset with either as both would be an upgrade.

And yet probably neither will get you where you want to go...(just guessing)

It’s a marathon not a sprint.

The problem is the way we're doing it might be a marathon to a destination infinite miles away.

Just leave Arizona better than they found it

Is that what we're trying to do here?

Chicat wrote:

OSUCat wrote:I’m having a hard time deciding if Miles or Sumlin would be better. Sumlin is younger with a focus on recruiting. Miles is just a solid head coach that has put together really good defense with really bad offense. Overall, I think Miles is the better Head Coach. Even if Arizona is not LSU in recruitment it would be nice to have a solid head coach again. On the other side, Arizona NEEDS solid recruiting, which seems to be Sumlin wheel house...I just do know...

I think Sumlin has the higher ceiling, and the lower floor. So Miles is the conservative pick. I think both have the potential to be the most successful coach in Arizona history. Although that’s not saying much.

I want Sumlin. He will put butts in seats and will upgrade our talent level immediately.

I agree for all the reasons noted...

I think all it takes is one coach, make us a perennial 9-3 team and the next coach sees this as a destination. Not sure any worthy (re Salavea, Cecil) coach sees us as one now. Maybe they do who knows.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with some little known coordinator that no one is talking about.

I like Sumlin. Id much rather have Kelly obviously, but had it fallen through, I'd have been ok with him. I think he could do well at Arizona and you guys saw how effective Mazzone's offense could be with a mobile QB. He'd have connections in SoCal and Texas, which is what you guys need from recruiting.

I want Sumlin cause he recruited the state of Arizona better than the two coaches that were here.

If you can get past the ASU thing, I really like the upside potential of Norvell, especially with Tate at QB.

TheBuffet wrote:If you can get past the ASU thing, I really like the upside potential of Norvell, especially with Tate at QB.

Definitely.

I just can't get over the fact that so many Wildcat fans on this board are salivating over the possibility of hiring Sumlin, who is a proven mediocre coach. Just look at his record people. After Johnny football, He NEVER finished in the top half of his division. He got lucky his first year, then was boringly average. Who cares if you recruit great classes, if you can't translate that into wins.

But a lot of people here have blinders on, so I will come back here in 5 or 6 years, after Sumlin is fired (if he actually does get hired) to see which retread everyone sees as our next saviour.

BBQ wildcat wrote:

TheBuffet wrote:If you can get past the ASU thing, I really like the upside potential of Norvell, especially with Tate at QB.

Definitely.

I just can't get over the fact that so many Wildcat fans on this board are salivating over the possibility of hiring Sumlin, who is a proven mediocre coach. Just look at his record people. After Johnny football, He NEVER finished in the top half of his division. He got lucky his first year, then was boringly average. Who cares if you recruit great classes, if you can't translate that into wins.

But a lot of people here have blinders on, so I will come back here in 5 or 6 years, after Sumlin is fired (if he actually does get hired) to see which retread everyone sees as our next saviour.

Literally all that matters is recruiting. That is priority #1 2 3 and 4. He'd help make it happen. You can't translate anything into wins at this level without talent. End of story, no discussion needed.

Not sure on accuracy but this tweet is stating Sumlin is going to be named new U of A head coach. University seeking to reduce 10 day wait period.
Nice work Chief.

https://twitter.com/playersprogramu/sta ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

ramcat wrote:Not sure on accuracy but this tweet is stating Sumlin is going to be named new U of A head coach. University seeking to reduce 10 day wait period.
Nice work Chief.

https://twitter.com/playersprogramu/sta ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

Was just about to ask the validity of playlersprogramu... had never heard of them. Hope it’s true.

Dude may be right, but it's not because he actually has a source or knows. He honestly reads the same things every one does here or on Scheer's website, sees something he likes and rolls with it. I remember he was guaranteeing a Taeshon Cherry commitment when anyone remotely close to Arizona knew AZ was out of it months prior.

BBQ wildcat wrote:

TheBuffet wrote:If you can get past the ASU thing, I really like the upside potential of Norvell, especially with Tate at QB.

Definitely.

I just can't get over the fact that so many Wildcat fans on this board are salivating over the possibility of hiring Sumlin, who is a proven mediocre coach. Just look at his record people. After Johnny football, He NEVER finished in the top half of his division. He got lucky his first year, then was boringly average. Who cares if you recruit great classes, if you can't translate that into wins.

But a lot of people here have blinders on, so I will come back here in 5 or 6 years, after Sumlin is fired (if he actually does get hired) to see which retread everyone sees as our next saviour.

The horse you are beating was declared deceased five posts ago. RIP

Kevin Sumlin would be a home run hire IMHO. For those complaining that he can’t coach because of a modest record in the SEC is laughable.....there is a reason the NC is an all SEC affair and the P12 had a pathetic showing in the bowls this year.....you can’t compare the A&M football program to ours.....they have a lot more resources and effort behind their football program.

Sumlin is an outstanding recruiter as well.....the only major concern I have is what happened to their QBs under Sumlin with the transfers....I’m not sure what happened there but it had a knock on effect on their record and probably led to his firing.

I’m confident that if we are fortunate enough to land Sumlin, we will be pleasantly surprised BUT I don’t think we will be able to hold on to him for very long....Just my two cents.

BTFD.

ramcat wrote:Not sure on accuracy but this tweet is stating Sumlin is going to be named new U of A head coach. University seeking to reduce 10 day wait period.
Nice work Chief.

https://twitter.com/playersprogramu/sta ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

I haven't read the other threads, but this playersprogramu sounds like pointguardu reincarnated. Has Ace resurrected?

Any coaching search for Arizona Football is going to be very nuanced. We are never going to hire a coach that would please every single fan at the announcement of the hire and getting to the point of every one being pleased with said hire wouldn't even come to fruition until probably years down the road with success. Is Kevin Sumlin the perfect candidate? Probably not, but any experienced coach we hire is going to have their warts, but it's a matter of what their strengths are and what they can do for Arizona Football long term to make the program more healthy for a possible future hire. This program has so many issues right now, but the two biggest issues revolves around a lack of talent, which falls to recruiting, and of course attendance and the two go hand in hand. There is one guy on the market who is almost certain to improve both and that's Kevin Sumlin. Ultimately there may be a younger coach out there that could bump recruiting and in turn attendance, but of course that's a risk, and I'm not sure if Arizona Football can take such a risk due to all the projects going on. If Arizona can hire Kevin Sumlin it honestly needs to hire Kevin Sumlin, otherwise we're just in a world of total unknown that could possibly work out for us in the end, but probably not. The one benefit of going with a younger up and coming coach they'll be much cheaper though and in that case Arizona needs to look at Beau Baldwin, Troy Walters, & Tee Martin among others.

ALASKACAT wrote:

ramcat wrote:Not sure on accuracy but this tweet is stating Sumlin is going to be named new U of A head coach. University seeking to reduce 10 day wait period.
Nice work Chief.

https://twitter.com/playersprogramu/sta ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

I haven't read the other threads, but this playersprogramu sounds like pointguardu reincarnated. Has Ace resurrected?

Ace is unknown but otherwise yes, that’s what that place is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Sumlin" target="_blank

Check it out guys, Sumlin will lead us to a 12-1 season with a Rose Bowl win. I mean it's on the internet so it must be true. Who wouldn't sign up for that?! Hop on aboard!

ChooChooCat wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Sumlin

Check it out guys, Sumlin will lead us to a 12-1 season with a Rose Bowl win. I mean it's on the internet so it must be true. Who wouldn't sign up for that?! Hop on aboard!

Looks like a done deal - Where do I buy my Rosebowl Tickets? Is the game on Monday?

ramcat wrote:Not sure on accuracy but this tweet is stating Sumlin is going to be named new U of A head coach. University seeking to reduce 10 day wait period.
Nice work Chief.

https://twitter.com/playersprogramu/sta ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

Thanks man.

That's the team meeting. Time to find out how trustworthy this guy is.

btfd16 wrote:

That's the team meeting. Time to find out how trustworthy this guy is.

If true- it should be done on the 8th innstead so to be discussed during the national championship game while the whole nation watches. Need the PR for Tate's Heisman Campaign.

MountainCat wrote:

btfd16 wrote:

That's the team meeting. Time to find out how trustworthy this guy is.

If true- it should be done on the 8th innstead so to be discussed during the national championship game while the whole nation watches. Need the PR for Tate's Heisman Campaign.

Kevin Sumlin is on the coaches film room broadcast ESPN will run along side the national championship

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-relea ... s-alabama/" target="_blank

The film room ESPN has run last couple of years has been great