Thoughts on who would be worth a try as new coach

[Longhorned]

What would really end the prez's reign in Tucson is if the alumni aligned themselves with the U of A employee union.

How can someone like me, just your regular alum, part of the alumni association, small-time donor, help make that happen?

Do you think he’s insulated enough that his contract will be extended? It expires next year, I think?

Actually I mean the union supporting the alumni, and the alumni supporting the union - with both united against what both view as a terrible prez who needs to resign.

If both were smart, we'd realize how it would serve all of our shared interests in helping the U of A.

I know what's in the way of this unite-and-conquer vision on the union member side, but I can also see overcoming it.

[ekat]

What would really end the prez's reign in Tucson is if the alumni aligned themselves with the U of A employee union.

How can someone like me, just your regular alum, part of the alumni association, small-time donor, help make that happen?

Do you think he’s insulated enough that his contract will be extended? It expires next year, I think?

Actually I mean the union supporting the alumni, and the alumni supporting the union - with both united against what both view as a terrible prez who needs to resign.

If both were smart, we'd realize how it would serve all of our shared interests in helping the U of A.

I know what's in the way of this unite-and-conquer vision on the union member side, but I can also see overcoming it.

Thank you. He has done so much harm to the University as a whole. It infuriates me every week when he does his COVID press conferences among many other things. This coaching search is just the most public debacle that’s attracting all the attention right now, and if it can help galvanize any kind of movement to get him out, well then I’m sorry Sean Miller had to be the sacrificial lamb.

[Dave]

Scheer is having way too much fun with all of this. I would take Tad Boyle over all of our candidates (except Lloyd). I have a feeling were all get played.

[BeardownZonaZona]

He's having even more fun with this now. His rank um post on TOS

[IrishAzCat]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Bill Walton.

Grateful Dead opening video, tie dyed unis, incomprehensible press conferences, bringing his ESPN buddies to McKale.

The synergy between the Conference of Champions and the Administration of Idiots can’t be ignored.

Free bags of shrooms and weed upon entry to the arena.

Lava Lamp and biggest bong hit halftime show.

Special random appearances and acoustic Bob Weir sets after the games.

[UAEebs86]

[Irish27]

Niko Medved, Darian DeVries or Wes Miller.

[BeardownZonaZona]

People been laughing at me. But I am all in on Wes Miller

[Chicat]

To distract myself from the pain of this coaching search I just sat on my left testicle.

[Irish27]

How about this guy?

[Postmaster]

Speaking of left testicle.....

[Postmaster]

Is Wes Miller the UNC Greensboro Coach?

[BeardownZonaZona]

Is Wes Miller the UNC Greensboro Coach?

Yes. Real young kid

[Siempre Verde]

What’s Larry Krystkowiak doing now? He was at least fun on the sidelines with us fans at UofA home games.


Jesus. I cracked way too many tonight for a weekday.

[IndianaZonaFan]

Listen, I’m tired. This is wearing me out.

If it’s not one of:
Tommy Lloyd
Dame
Mark Pope
Or rolling with Jack Murphy for 1 interim year....

I think I’m gonna legitimately cry over this.

[EastCoastCat]

We are all tired of this.

Need to thank our crack Pres & AD for extending our angst in addition to an increase of xanax, alcohol, weed and other goodie purchases.

[Longhorned]

What's the knock against Damon, besides Pacific? I completely don't buy the hesitation about his record at Pacific. But there was something else somebody said about his time on Miller's staff. What was that?

[ekat]

What's the knock against Damon, besides Pacific? I completely don't buy the hesitation about his record at Pacific. But there was something else somebody said about his time on Miller's staff. What was that?

Allegedly he was too lazy to recruit and didn’t put in the time and effort Miller expected. That being subjective to Miller’s expectations. One could argue that the effort he has put in at Pacific, despite their NCAA probation, and scholarship and recruiting restrictions would show he’s grown in that area.

[IndianaZonaFan]

What's the knock against Damon, besides Pacific? I completely don't buy the hesitation about his record at Pacific. But there was something else somebody said about his time on Miller's staff. What was that?

I think the knock was someone saying he put in no effort in recruiting.

Now that he’s had time as HC in a shitty situation, I wouldn’t be mad at him being our guy.

I’m sure he understands the ins and outs more now, and he should have a staff that helps with that anyway. If we HAVE TO HAVE an alumni, I prefer him over all other viable options. But not all alum hires are Roy Williams or Juwan Howard.

Some are Penny Hardaway. Some are Patrick Ewing.

[Alieberman]

Press Release-

From the desk of ALieberman:

It has been an honor to be actively interested in the AZ search for a new men’s basketball coach. But at this time I am officially removing my name from those actively interested in the outcome of this decision. I will not be posting any more on this subject.... snarky or otherwise.... until after a coaching announcement has been made.

I just don’t care enough anymore

Sincerely

ALieberman

UofA class of ‘97

[Longhorned]

Now Alieberman pulled out!

If there's any merit to Damon not pulling his weight, I should hope his interviewers ask him about that, and he has an agile response.

But another thing to keep in mind is how these kinds of reputations come about in ways that attach to some, and not others. For one thing, what was the difference in "effort" between Damon and Book?

And when it comes to "laziness", where do we see that trope come up again and again in sports and other places? What's the difference between Damon, Pastner (talk about not lazy), and Walton? Every assistant coach gets known for something and learns in the process, but some rise to HC of major programs or the freaking Lakers, and others get their "shot" in the basement program in a mid-major conference. So many Black assistants, so many white HC's.

It's not about the decision made for any particular search. It's about daily biases and different routes.

[zonagrad]

To not hire a permanent head coach and leave Jack Murphy at the helm for an entire year would be the most abject failure possible for Robbins & Heeke. It makes absolutely zero sense. If that's the decision, then why not simply leave Miller in place for the upcoming season and let him finish out his contract? It's not as though recruiting is going to improve with Murphy as the interim...you aren't getting recruits to come to Tucson with Murphy in charge and the "hope" of hiring a good head coach next spring.

Not making a permanent hire signals that Robbins & Heeke failed spectacularly and they absolutely deserve to be fired before the start of school next fall. The don't get an "incomplete" on their report card. It's an F!

At this point, it's practically impossible for Robbins to win the the news conference with an impressive "wow" hire. At best, Arizona fans can hope for a hire that's a "wait and see" just like Cronin and UCLA.

If it's an alum like Damon or Miles, there's going to be some positive reaction and a whole lot of skepticism -- and rightly so. You just fired a top shelf coach with 5 conference titles, 3 tourney titles, 3 elite 8's and a .700 winning percentage and replaced him with an unproven commodity with fingers crossed. Brilliant.

If it's Lloyd, then the question will be, "what the fuck took so long?" And why is this career assistant worthy of one of the top 10 jobs in college basketball?

The local media should be tearing Robbins & Heeke apart like warm bread.

[UAEebs86]

I know Bobby Robbins;
So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
But trust me.... You don't.
I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about.
This is how bad info gets passed around.
If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.
Cos some people believe anything they hear.

[Chicat]

For one thing, what was the difference in "effort" between Damon and Book?

Book was all effort. In fact, too much effort. There were guys we wouldn't have taken in a million years who got calls and offers from Book. And when those kids or their coaches posted on social media about the offer, many others on the staff were taken totally by surprise.

Now that we know what we know, Book might have been trying to get in good with those kids, their handlers, and their AAU teams for his own personal financial reasons.

[Longhorned]

For one thing, what was the difference in "effort" between Damon and Book?

Book was all effort. In fact, too much effort. There were guys we wouldn't have taken in a million years who got calls and offers from Book. And when those kids or their coaches posted on social media about the offer, many others on the staff were taken totally by surprise.

Now that we know what we know, Book might have been trying to get in good with those kids, their handlers, and their AAU teams for his own personal financial reasons.

Exactly. This is why, even if that perception of Damon happened, it should be seen as suspect. The standard for effort he'd have been measured against was warped and extreme.

[Longhorned]

On another point, given demonstrated racial insensitivity of the person behind this search effort, we're doubtful to get sensitivity for actual professional qualities as opposed to rote bias when it comes to to this hire.

[GlobalCat]

I'd rather not detail what informs me, but this president is protected on two fronts:

1 ABOR requires dollars coming in through donations (the potential chink in his armor) and enrollments while ensuring a scarcity mindset to control who’s on the payroll. A lot of that hinges on a funding model called RCM, which hurts students (and potentially risks parents) but serves ABOR’s requirements.

2 A pattern of hiring and promoting underqualified leadership dependent on protection from above, and therefore dependable in protecting who each reports to. And hiring expensive corporate firms that answer to him. This creates a bubble where the president gets nothing but positive support for his decisions. He’s also secured control of the Committee of Eleven (now in doubt with new election), which derailed a no confidence vote. So, he doesn’t feel much of the heat coming from all directions (alumns, faculty and staff, fans, the union, etc.). His lack of awareness is underscored by his continued optics by using what’s called a “handler” and making himself the face of the university, which university presidents generally don’t do (a Crow influence).

The other pattern is that he very frequently doesn’t have a plan, even when it’s called a “plan” (including even the Strategic Plan). He receives expert advice and wise council, but he ignores it in favor of ABOR and his own unreflective beliefs, gut instincts, and misplaced self confidence that’s repeatedly buttressed by his circle of dependents. You have to understand that this is a very unqualified person occupying a top administrative position, let alone carving out a kind of “super president” role of carrying out a myriad of tasks that presidents don’t generally do.

I don’t claim to know any of the details of this search. But based on other involvements, I basically know everything that’s happened, and it's exactly as it probably seems to you. A lack of logic and know-how needed to protect the institution is exactly what's missing, and employees are paying money out of their own pockets to try to correct the situation.

ABOR will remain happy with the situation as long as the money keeps coming in. It's up to the big donors who hold sway with ABOR.

It's still possible that a good hire happens in spite of the incompetence, too. Mostly because of a pig in a poke.

Agreed and the misplaced tone starts at the top. Larry Penley (head of ABOR] is an abysmal failure at every place he’s led. He’s also a protege of Michael Crow, so you get all the joys of the cult of personality that brings.

[azpatnca]

I know Bobby Robbins;
So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
But trust me.... You don't.
I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about.
This is how bad info gets passed around.
If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.
Cos some people believe anything they hear.

oh my God. It's been so long. Wow. You boomed me.

[TheCat]

So UNC had a fairly vigorous debate on who there new coach should be (minus the usual suspects). What is the other guy doing now? Of course that means UNC leftovers are better than anyone this administration could hire which I think we all agree is true. I wonder if they ever took Kerr up on his offer? Probably not.

[Longhorned]

It would be out of character if there was no conversation with Kerr, but also out of character if they took Kerr's advice if it conflicted with the gut impulse.

[zonagrad]

I'm of the opinion that the type of recruits brought in by Book led to the spiraling down of the program -- and that's easy to say now in hindsight.

But Kobi Simmons was brought in as a 1-year guy. His family made it clear he was only going to play one season. Rawle Alkins had no interest in staying long at Arizona. What did we get out of those two? Like most new players -- they struggled to be consistent. Both could've had tremendous college careers and seen their stock grow significantly had they stayed longer. Their pro careers have been predictively middling and unimpressive. Why even bother to take rent-a-players like this?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm of the opinion that the type of recruits brought in by Book led to the spiraling down of the program -- and that's easy to say now in hindsight.

But Kobi Simmons was brought in as a 1-year guy. His family made it clear he was only going to play one season. Rawle Alkins had no interest in staying long at Arizona. What did we get out of those two? Like most new players -- they struggled to be consistent. Both could've had tremendous college careers and seen their stock grow significantly had they stayed longer. Their pro careers have been predictively middling and unimpressive. Why even bother to take rent-a-players like this?

Most talented players aspire to be one and dones. Bluntly, even not so great players still want to be one and dones.

In the 2019 HS class, in the top ten, one player made it to his sophomore year (Scottie Lewis) and he just declared for the draft.

Looking around where Kobi and Rawle were, Terrence Ferguson, Jarrett Allen, TJ Leaf, Josh Langford and Omari Spellman were the 5 guys right before Rawle. Two OAD's, one guy who never played CBB, one guy who left after his soph year and one guy who stayed 5 years bc he had repeated broken feet.

Just not odd. 5 stars don't stay.

[dmjcat]

I strongly disagree with the reasoning that we should settle for Pastner/Stoudamire/Murphy if we can't land our (apparent) primary target Lloyd. We need to sign the BEST possible coach we can. If this takes another week or two, so be it. Our coaching search should not be dictated by frustrated message board posters who want a coach ASAP.

I suggest, again, that we go after Mark Pope. He is a realistic target we can afford. And he has had BYU in the top 25 the past 2 years. If he can do that at BYU, I'm quite confident he can do at least as well at the UA.

[ekat]

I strongly disagree with the reasoning that we should settle for Pastner/Stoudamire/Murphy if we can't land our (apparent) primary target Lloyd. We need to sign the BEST possible coach we can. If this takes another week or two, so be it. Our coaching search should not be dictated by frustrated message board posters who want a coach ASAP.

I suggest, again, that we go after Mark Pope. He is a realistic target we can afford. And he has had BYU in the top 25 the past 2 years. If he can do that at BYU, I'm quite confident he can do at least as well at the UA.

Not arguing here at all, simply curious. How do we know we can afford Mike Pope? He just signed an extension to 2027 in November. BYU doesn’t release contract details, so does anyone know what his salary is or his buyout would be?

[dmjcat]

I'm of the opinion that the type of recruits brought in by Book led to the spiraling down of the program -- and that's easy to say now in hindsight.

But Kobi Simmons was brought in as a 1-year guy. His family made it clear he was only going to play one season. Rawle Alkins had no interest in staying long at Arizona. What did we get out of those two? Like most new players -- they struggled to be consistent. Both could've had tremendous college careers and seen their stock grow significantly had they stayed longer. Their pro careers have been predictively middling and unimpressive. Why even bother to take rent-a-players like this?

I agree with most of your premise.

But remember that the players we brought in were a function of Millers system....."A Players Program". Miller offered to get the OAD's to the league as fast as possible. That directly led to the UA being used as a Pit Stop by many OAD's. If you want players that will stay around and develop then the UA needs to change the culture of the program.

[dmjcat]

I strongly disagree with the reasoning that we should settle for Pastner/Stoudamire/Murphy if we can't land our (apparent) primary target Lloyd. We need to sign the BEST possible coach we can. If this takes another week or two, so be it. Our coaching search should not be dictated by frustrated message board posters who want a coach ASAP.

I suggest, again, that we go after Mark Pope. He is a realistic target we can afford. And he has had BYU in the top 25 the past 2 years. If he can do that at BYU, I'm quite confident he can do at least as well at the UA.

Not arguing here at all, simply curious. How do we know we can afford Mike Pope? He just signed an extension to 2027 in November. BYU doesn’t release contract details, so does anyone know what his salary is or his buyout would be?

BYU is a private school so I don't believe that the contractual details are public (I could be wrong).

I would think, however, that we should be able to financially compete with a WCC school. I can understand not being able to out-bid $EC Arkansas for Musselman but if we can't compete with a WCC school we are far more screwed than we think.

[ekat]

I strongly disagree with the reasoning that we should settle for Pastner/Stoudamire/Murphy if we can't land our (apparent) primary target Lloyd. We need to sign the BEST possible coach we can. If this takes another week or two, so be it. Our coaching search should not be dictated by frustrated message board posters who want a coach ASAP.

I suggest, again, that we go after Mark Pope. He is a realistic target we can afford. And he has had BYU in the top 25 the past 2 years. If he can do that at BYU, I'm quite confident he can do at least as well at the UA.

Not arguing here at all, simply curious. How do we know we can afford Mike Pope? He just signed an extension to 2027 in November. BYU doesn’t release contract details, so does anyone know what his salary is or his buyout would be?

BYU is a private school so I don't believe that the contractual details are public (I could be wrong).

I would think, however, that we should be able to financially compete with a WCC school. I can understand not being able to out-bid $EC Arkansas for Musselman but if we can't compete with a WCC school we are far more screwed than we think.

Correct, their contract details are not released. The one thing they did release, however, was that Pope agreed to defer the increases in pay into the latter part of his contract, in light of COVID. What concerns me is that could mean a buyout we can’t afford considering there’s 6 years left on his contract. We couldn’t afford $5 million for Muss (not that he was coming here). You have to figure Pope is making more than his last job ($1 million+), with 6 years left. The math is theoretically adding up in my head that we can’t afford him.

[Longhorned]

I strongly disagree with the reasoning that we should settle for Pastner/Stoudamire/Murphy if we can't land our (apparent) primary target Lloyd. We need to sign the BEST possible coach we can. If this takes another week or two, so be it. Our coaching search should not be dictated by frustrated message board posters who want a coach ASAP.

I suggest, again, that we go after Mark Pope. He is a realistic target we can afford. And he has had BYU in the top 25 the past 2 years. If he can do that at BYU, I'm quite confident he can do at least as well at the UA.

The argument for Murphy is precisely an argument in favor of hiring the best coach possible instead hiring a coach asap. It's about looking at a different pool a year from now. Instead of settling for Pope, for example.

[Irish27]

[EastCoastCat]

Did anyone else wish an alligator or shark just jumped out of that pool and swallowed that one-eyed, Duke-sucker whole?

[gronk4heisman]

Did anyone else wish an alligator or shark just jumped out of that pool and swallowed that one-eyed, Duke-sucker whole?

He just said with a straight face Mike Woodson was a great hire? Is Bob Elliott available?

[Chicat]

I wish Luke had already been fired in Sacramento.

If he got a top notch recruiter I actually think he could learn to be a really good college coach.

[azpatnca]

I could get behind Damon Stoudamire. I would expect us to do the equivalent of poaching Xavier's coach, like we did last time. Find a coach who took a program to his first sweet16 in the past 3 years and offer him big time money to be in a big time conference.

But I guess that ship has sailed. So we go with a Wildcat like Damon and try to rally round the family.

At least Damon will likely respect Miller and his legacy. I seriously doubt he'll come in and blame everything on the last guy. I doubt the players will disrespect him. He'll have support initially from the fans and alumni.

I can get behind a "we all we got we all we need" mentality of Arizona against the world with a former player as coach. I could see the writers of the show going into that for a little bit. It could be the kind of "us against the world" campaign that can win games and fill seats. Imagine beating UCLA by 45 and the players say "the NCAA is lucky they won't allow us in the post season, they're scared of us" and just going all in like that.

That would work.

[btfd16]

I know Bobby Robbins;
So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
But trust me.... You don't.
I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about.
This is how bad info gets passed around.
If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.
Cos some people believe anything they hear.

I obviously don't believe everything is as bad as it's said. But in no way can you even defend that this has been a good process nor well planned barring anything short of pulling a damn near blue blood coach. It's a shit show through and through, even if the hire is Lloyd at this point. Especially after waiting post-tourney.

The media and people will 100% embellish, that's their job and human nature. But we've seen that this isn't going well. The tone deafness of his tweet right after the firing is one tiny example. The reports of big boosters alerted by twitter. Reports of they decided a month ago. Waiting after the tournament to fire him. If even 30% of what is said is true, it's still a dumpster fire. These stories don't come from no where. You can't just say "Nothing is true, you all suck" - sources: Dude, trust me. And if we're putting too much onus on Robbins and it's Heeke, then we take some back, but that's still not great because he's stuck by him.

No one is saying he's a bad guy. I get the want to defend him, when I worked in the athletic department, I hated my friends being talked about poorly. It sucks. I got defensive. But in no way can you look at this and say all is fine with Arizona basketball, the administration and this hiring process.

(Disclaimer: If we hire Mark Few, I take it all back, buy season tickets, and name my first born Robert Robbins _____)

I WAS UNAWARE OF THE JOKE. I got got. But Imma get mine more than I get got.

[UAEebs86]

btfd16,
It's a running joke since GOAZCATS days started by Jerryd's Kids.

[btfd16]

btfd16,
It's a running joke since GOAZCATS days started by Jerryd's Kids.

Dude. I just got got. Embarrassing. Leaving it up, taking my lumps. (the disclaimer remains the same)

[EastCoastCat]

I know Bobby Robbins;
So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
But trust me.... You don't.
I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about.
This is how bad info gets passed around.
If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.
Cos some people believe anything they hear.

I obviously don't believe everything is as bad as it's said. But in no way can you even defend that this has been a good process nor well planned barring anything short of pulling a damn near blue blood coach. It's a shit show through and through, even if the hire is Lloyd at this point. Especially after waiting post-tourney.

The media and people will 100% embellish, that's their job and human nature. But we've seen that this isn't going well. The tone deafness of his tweet right after the firing is one tiny example. The reports of big boosters alerted by twitter. Reports of they decided a month ago. Waiting after the tournament to fire him. If even 30% of what is said is true, it's still a dumpster fire. These stories don't come from no where. You can't just say "Nothing is true, you all suck" - sources: Dude, trust me. And if we're putting too much onus on Robbins and it's Heeke, then we take some back, but that's still not great because he's stuck by him.

No one is saying he's a bad guy. I get the want to defend him, when I worked in the athletic department, I hated my friends being talked about poorly. It sucks. I got defensive. But in no way can you look at this and say all is fine with Arizona basketball, the administration and this hiring process.

(Disclaimer: If we hire Mark Few, I take it all back, buy season tickets, and name my first born Robert Robbins _____)

You do know UAEebs86 post is an old running joke from long ago right?

[Chicat]

[btfd16]

I was so heated someone defending Robbins I got too in the zone hahahaha

[midnightx]

I could get behind Damon Stoudamire.

And you may have to do that. The speculation is that Damon would be in over his head with the Arizona job, but who knows, maybe he would excel, especially if he had the right staff. He would definitely not be an exciting hire, but within a year it would be clear if he was the right fit because presuming he kept most of the current roster intact, he would have a good squad to coach (and therefore fans would be able to see what he could do with a quality roster) and fans would know what kind of a recruiter he was with the keys to Arizona.

That said, if the Lloyd thing has been derailed, I won't be surprised if AZ winds up with someone off the radar. Not an elite name, but someone from a decent-to-respectable program.