I think we're spoiled

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:52 pm

Or at least from the Twitter reaction from UA fans to Lee & Stan would lead me to believe that.

It's frankly shocking that so many fans seem to be utterly ignoring how much talent will be on this team next year.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:55 pm

Down year.

But I love what Arizona considers a down year!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:57 pm

We could struggle or we could roll. Under Miller, I don't think talent will ever be the question.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:04 pm

I think Ray Smith getting hurt and sitting out all last year contributed to it. If he had played he probably would have been
a McDonald's AA along with Trier.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:05 pm

A lot of it is anxiety to get to another FF. Fourteen years is a long time. If only a bucket or two had fallen here or there.

But there's entitlement, too. When I get down I just think of four coaches in four years, coaching search, flight tracker, Tim Floyd and the rest.

We were on the ledge. Miler pulled us back. Gratitude erodes quickly. How fans act from here on out could determine how long he stays.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:07 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:I think Ray Smith getting hurt and sitting out all last year contributed to it. If he had played he probably would have been
a McDonald's AA along with Trier.

Agree. Just seeing him play would alleviate some of this. He's an unknown to me, other than ranking.

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:27 pm

. . . just a jump to the left. . .

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:46 pm

We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:49 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?

I'm obviously referring to recruiting.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Spoiled or not, there's not many fanbases out there like ours, that love and support the Cats so vociferously year after year.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:54 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?

Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:57 pm

Chicat wrote:Or at least from the Twitter reaction from UA fans to Lee & Stan would lead me to believe that.

It's frankly shocking that so many fans seem to be utterly ignoring how much talent will be on this team next year.

I feel like today moved Arizona from a top 5 natty contender to more in that 12-15 range. Yes, that is still talented and a lot of things can happen (improvement of players, luck in the tourney draw, etc...), but I think it is more likely a consolidation year leading into another monster year in 2016.

Next year will be fun and more likely when I am done being bitter and whatever else I am right now, I will come to the realization that it will likely mean more watching the young kids grow into a juggernaut the following year. But for now today is just disappointing of what could have been.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:02 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?
Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.

Pretty sure it's only UCLA and Oregon. But the Pac is historically weaker than the Big 10, ACC, and Big East. So comparing our Elite Eights to what a bunch of second or third tier Pac programs have done is a little misleading. I consider non-Pac programs like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UConn, and Duke (just to name a few) to be our true peers, not freaking Washington, Cal, ASU, or any of the other Pac team that's rarely in the tourney.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:06 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?
Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.

F*ck Elite Eights

Who seriously gives a F*ck about making Elite Eights. We made an Elite Eight in 2005, how does that year feel to you, we made one in 2011, that one felt great too right, what about the last past two years, after both of those years I felt amazing.

We are not spoiled. Sean Miller is spoiled for having this Fan Base which is by FAR the best in college basketball considering how rabid we are and considering how the team has not given us a final four in 14 years to justify our passion. Sean Miller is Fortunate to be coaching here and if EVER EVER forgets that, there is the door. We are not Lucky Sean Miller is our coach, Sean Miller is incredibly lucky to be the head coach at a place like Arizona and he better make a final four here soon because with the improvements to McKale he has ZERO ZERO excuses not to win multiple national championships here. We are lucky Rich Rod is our coach for our football team, we are not lucky Sean Miller is our coach. We will be lucky he is our coach AFTER he wins a national championship. We will be spoiled after we make multiple Final Fours again.

I did not feel "spoiled" walking out of Staples a couple weeks back...I actually walked past a homeless guy in a wheelchair doing heroin on my way to my buddies car and said to myself, man I wish i could trade spots with that guy

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:07 pm

Scout board is more unreadable than usual

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:11 pm

As a Cub, Bears, Suns and Wildcats fan... I am anything but spoiled.

I would love to be though!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:14 pm

Taking consistent top 5 recruiting classes and 3 Elite Eights in 5 years as a disappointment is spoiled in my book. There are a ton of programs, some with better histories of success (Indiana, etc.) that can't say that.

Don't forget how good we have it when our only disappointment is not making the Final Four. There are many schools that would kill to be in our shoes.

Of course I want a Final Four. That doesn't mean I have to lose all perspective and forget we are better situated than 99.9% of programs. I'm lucky to have an awesome program to root for instead of having to spend all my time talking myself into Tim Floyd.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:22 pm

Newportcat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?
Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.
F*ck Elite Eights

Who seriously gives a F*ck about making Elite Eights. We made an Elite Eight in 2005, how does that year feel to you, we made one in 2011, that one felt great too right, what about the last past two years, after both of those years I felt amazing.

We are not spoiled. Sean Miller is spoiled for having this Fan Base which is by FAR the best in college basketball considering how rabid we are and considering how the team has not given us a final four in 14 years to justify our passion. Sean Miller is Fortunate to be coaching here and if EVER EVER forgets that, there is the door. We are not Lucky Sean Miller is our coach, Sean Miller is incredibly lucky to be the head coach at a place like Arizona and he better make a final four here soon because with the improvements to McKale he has ZERO ZERO excuses not to win multiple national championships here. We are lucky Rich Rod is our coach for our football team, we are not lucky Sean Miller is our coach. We will be lucky he is our coach AFTER he wins a national championship. We will be spoiled after we make multiple Final Fours again.

I did not feel "spoiled" walking out of Staples a couple weeks back...I actually walked past a homeless guy in a wheelchair doing heroin on my way to my buddies car and said to myself, man I wish i could trade spots with that guy

If Sean Miller ever leaves for UNC or the NBA, I'm going to have to restrain myself from hunting down people who post stuff like this.

Indiana fans are passionate and they have to root for TOM CREAN. TOM CREAN.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:32 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Taking consistent top 5 recruiting classes and 3 Elite Eights in 5 years as a disappointment is spoiled in my book. There are a ton of programs, some with better histories of success (Indiana, etc.) that can't say that.

Don't forget how good we have it when our only disappointment is not making the Final Four. There are many schools that would kill to be in our shoes.

Of course I want a Final Four. That doesn't mean I have to lose all perspective and forget we are better situated than 99.9% of programs. I'm lucky to have an awesome program to root for instead of having to spend all my time talking myself into Tim Floyd.

Not making a final four when you are the preseason #2 in the country is a big disapointing, worthless, never to be talked about season. To call Arizona basketball fans spoiled is Insane given what has happened the past 14 years, sure from 1998 to 2001 we were spoiled, but since, not even close

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:41 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
If Sean Miller ever leaves for UNC or the NBA, I'm going to have to restrain myself from hunting down people who post stuff like this.

Indiana fans are passionate and they have to root for TOM CREAN. TOM CREAN.

Its honestly fans like you which make me think Arizona will never become the program it should be because you are ok being a Top 20 program who does well and has guys in the NBA and is nice and fun and oh look the Ohh Ahh Man, Yippee Hooray.

F*ck Indiana so what if they have to root for Tom Crean.

This is Arizona, you can win a National Championship here now as easily as any place in the country. We will pay very well. We have great facilities now. You can own West Coast recruiting. You get 14,500 fans for every game. You are a God and the weather aint terrible either.

This is a Top 5 job and if Miller ever left before taking us to a final four, there is the damn door

With Arizona football, I will except the fact we will never be a national power, Arizona basketball I refuse to ever go down to that. I expect final fours, Period. Anything less is a failure of a season.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:46 pm

Newportcat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
If Sean Miller ever leaves for UNC or the NBA, I'm going to have to restrain myself from hunting down people who post stuff like this.

Indiana fans are passionate and they have to root for TOM CREAN. TOM CREAN.

Its honestly fans like you which make me think Arizona will never become the program it should be because you are ok being a Top 20 program who does well and has guys in the NBA and is nice and fun and oh look the Ohh Ahh Man, Yippee Hooray.

F*ck Indiana so what if they have to root for Tom Crean.

This is Arizona, you can win a National Championship here now as easily as any place in the country. We will pay very well. We have great facilities now. You can own West Coast recruiting. You get 14,500 fans for every game. You are a God and the weather aint terrible either.

This is a Top 5 job and if Miller ever left before taking us to a final four, there is the damn door

With Arizona football, I will except the fact we will never be a national power, Arizona basketball I refuse to ever go down to that. I expect final fours because I know there is no logical reason we cant make one every year. Sure you need luck on your side which we havent had but i will not remember this season much in a couple years because I consider us a Top 5 program and the only years that are remembered or are cared about are final four years.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:48 pm

You seem angry...

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:55 pm

Losing in the elite 8 fucking sucks. I swear when the Cats make the final 4 im gonna celebrate like they won the god damn championship.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:50 pm

If Tarc leaves and Tollefson does not come here, we will have three open scholarships. It seems hard to believe a program of this caliber would have that many open scholarships. It certainly puts a cloud of doubt over next season. Bubble team?

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:50 am

What? Newportcat is overreacting? Say it ain't so.

I call BS, Newport.

1. The football program does not get some magical pass because the basketball program has a better history. If you're a real fan, you should have similarly high expectations for both.
2. Why do you think multiple national championships in hoops are Arizona's right? Our due? We've won exactly how many natties so far? But somehow we deserve multiple championships now or it's Miller's fault?
3. Are Final Fours enough? Hell, that's loser talk. I expect a championship every, single year. Any year without one is a failure. But I guess that's the nature of college hoops. You win your last game, or you have a terrible off season. Were you happy in 1988? 1994? 2001? I sure as hell felt like crap after those games. Not as crap as that wheelchair-bound drug addict you mention, but still like crap.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:51 am

az91 wrote:If Tarc leaves and Tollefson does not come here, we will have three open scholarships. It seems hard to believe a program of this caliber would have that many open scholarships. It certainly puts a cloud of doubt over next season. Bubble team?

Howland went to three final fours in a row without a full roster. I dont think that it's a big deal

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:54 am

MrBug708 wrote:
az91 wrote:If Tarc leaves and Tollefson does not come here, we will have three open scholarships. It seems hard to believe a program of this caliber would have that many open scholarships. It certainly puts a cloud of doubt over next season. Bubble team?
Howland went to three final fours in a row without a full roster. I dont think that it's a big deal

So you're saying we could still make the Elite 8?

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:57 am

Newportcat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?
Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.
F*ck Elite Eights

Who seriously gives a F*ck about making Elite Eights. We made an Elite Eight in 2005, how does that year feel to you, we made one in 2011, that one felt great too right, what about the last past two years, after both of those years I felt amazing.

We are not spoiled. Sean Miller is spoiled for having this Fan Base which is by FAR the best in college basketball considering how rabid we are and considering how the team has not given us a final four in 14 years to justify our passion. Sean Miller is Fortunate to be coaching here and if EVER EVER forgets that, there is the door. We are not Lucky Sean Miller is our coach, Sean Miller is incredibly lucky to be the head coach at a place like Arizona and he better make a final four here soon because with the improvements to McKale he has ZERO ZERO excuses not to win multiple national championships here. We are lucky Rich Rod is our coach for our football team, we are not lucky Sean Miller is our coach. We will be lucky he is our coach AFTER he wins a national championship. We will be spoiled after we make multiple Final Fours again.

I did not feel "spoiled" walking out of Staples a couple weeks back...I actually walked past a homeless guy in a wheelchair doing heroin on my way to my buddies car and said to myself, man I wish i could trade spots with that guy

I was actually not feeling great today heading into the office. Then I read this. Thank god I am not this person. I feel fucking great right now know that. Thanks newport!

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:18 am

I am angry because I am sick and tired of walking out of either Stapes Center or the Honda Center near the end of March pissed off because yet again. Its like a bad dream that happens over and over and over again.

Then to have fans say we are spoiled...its crazy talk. I am a Lakers fan, I have been beyond spoiled as a fan. Arizona Basketball the past 14 years, I never feel spoiled.

Also, Puerco, dont ever call me out as a fan again. That is bush league

Glad I made you feel better dcZonaFan!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:34 am

Newportcat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Taking consistent top 5 recruiting classes and 3 Elite Eights in 5 years as a disappointment is spoiled in my book. There are a ton of programs, some with better histories of success (Indiana, etc.) that can't say that.

Don't forget how good we have it when our only disappointment is not making the Final Four. There are many schools that would kill to be in our shoes.

Of course I want a Final Four. That doesn't mean I have to lose all perspective and forget we are better situated than 99.9% of programs. I'm lucky to have an awesome program to root for instead of having to spend all my time talking myself into Tim Floyd.
Not making a final four when you are the preseason #2 in the country is a big disapointing, worthless, never to be talked about season. To call Arizona basketball fans spoiled is Insane given what has happened the past 14 years, sure from 1998 to 2001 we were spoiled, but since, not even close

Would you prefer Michigan State's season? Mediocre season, easy path in tourney, get whipped but play in the FF? Would you rather be George Mason? They've made the Final Four in the last 14 years?

Spoiled people take things for granted because they see themselves as special and deserving of extraordinary things. Spoiled people lack empathy for those less fortunate than them. Spoiled people forget that Arizona was called a 7 year rebuilding project, that next year is year 7 and that instead of rebuilding, we have seen a sustained run of success that rivals anything in our program's history.

The Final Four has become our white whale, but part of that book is a cautionary tale about not falling into a single minded madness where you only judge yourself against the white whale.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:55 am

I want the cats shipped to a region that falls apart. Fuck the west region. Seriously.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:07 am

Newportcat wrote:I am angry because I am sick and tired of walking out of either Stapes Center or the Honda Center near the end of March pissed off because yet again. Its like a bad dream that happens over and over and over again.

Then to have fans say we are spoiled...its crazy talk. I am a Lakers fan, I have been beyond spoiled as a fan. Arizona Basketball the past 14 years, I never feel spoiled.

Also, Puerco, dont ever call me out as a fan again. That is bush league

Glad I made you feel better dcZonaFan!

Hey, Johnny Optimist. That homeless/heroin option is still available. Should ease the pain.

Thanks for keeping things in perspective.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:08 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Would you prefer Michigan State's season? Mediocre season, easy path in tourney, get whipped but play in the FF? Would you rather be George Mason? They've made the Final Four in the last 14 years?

Spoiled people take things for granted because they see themselves as special and deserving of extraordinary things. Spoiled people lack empathy for those less fortunate than them. Spoiled people forget that Arizona was called a 7 year rebuilding project, that next year is year 7 and that instead of rebuilding, we have seen a sustained run of success that rivals anything in our program's history.

The Final Four has become our white whale, but part of that book is a cautionary tale about not falling into a single minded madness where you only judge yourself against the white whale.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:12 am

MrBug708 wrote:
az91 wrote:If Tarc leaves and Tollefson does not come here, we will have three open scholarships. It seems hard to believe a program of this caliber would have that many open scholarships. It certainly puts a cloud of doubt over next season. Bubble team?
Howland went to three final fours in a row without a full roster. I dont think that it's a big deal

Didn't Duke have only 8 scholarship players this past season?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:10 am

I understand why these discussions tend to go back to the Final Four question, but the one-and-out tourney at the end is precisely where teams can surprise, especially teams that develop and peak at the end. It's the other stuff along the way that are harder, and point to a down year by Arizona standards.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:42 am

I love when winning/losing just one more game in 2 of the past 3 seasons is the difference between success/failure in some fans eyes. Fans like that need not watch anything leading up to the tourney then.

This is college basketball, not the NBA where teams can take multiple "nights off", even in the playoffs, cause they can get back at the team the next game. The NCAA is a series of "Game 7's" back to back for 3 weeks. True, Arizona has not had luck on it's side, but that's about the only thing it hasn't had.

I watched Stanley yesterday, a player that has basically been a 1 and done since you ever heard his name mentioned. He spoke about his love for all things Arizona, including the program, the town and the fans. He waited until he could wait no more to decide to do what we knew he would, and what you would do if in his shoes. He's 18 years old, and already understands how special this program was.

Then I read comments from "fans" that love to troll on twitter.

I just don't get it.

Chi can say spoiled. I can say that Arizona "fans" have a tendency to be privelged assholes that don't realize how good they have it.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:45 am

Newportcat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?
Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.
F*ck Elite Eights

Who seriously gives a F*ck about making Elite Eights. We made an Elite Eight in 2005, how does that year feel to you, we made one in 2011, that one felt great too right, what about the last past two years, after both of those years I felt amazing.

We are not spoiled. Sean Miller is spoiled for having this Fan Base which is by FAR the best in college basketball considering how rabid we are and considering how the team has not given us a final four in 14 years to justify our passion. Sean Miller is Fortunate to be coaching here and if EVER EVER forgets that, there is the door. We are not Lucky Sean Miller is our coach, Sean Miller is incredibly lucky to be the head coach at a place like Arizona and he better make a final four here soon because with the improvements to McKale he has ZERO ZERO excuses not to win multiple national championships here. We are lucky Rich Rod is our coach for our football team, we are not lucky Sean Miller is our coach. We will be lucky he is our coach AFTER he wins a national championship. We will be spoiled after we make multiple Final Fours again.

I did not feel "spoiled" walking out of Staples a couple weeks back...I actually walked past a homeless guy in a wheelchair doing heroin on my way to my buddies car and said to myself, man I wish i could trade spots with that guy

You really need to accept that the rest of the universe cannot live up to the high standards of accomplishment that you set for yourself.... you are quite clearly a very special case of an overachiever who is able to soar to consistent levels of excellence that are unattainable to most. It seems obvious, as any kid from the Peninsula who sets his sights on an Arizona degree (as opposed to settling for one from Stanford or Cal) is a very unique kind of special. Your posting on this message board only provides further evidence....

The very fact that you are "originally from" Newport Beach indicates that there is as good a chance as not that you embody the very definition of "entitled" and "spoiled". Or as Barry Switzer said... one of those who "was born on third base and spent their whole life thinking he hit a triple". The kind of coach you "deserve" more closely resembles Lane Kiffin.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:45 am

Great post ODogg

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:57 am

Newportcat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
If Sean Miller ever leaves for UNC or the NBA, I'm going to have to restrain myself from hunting down people who post stuff like this.

Indiana fans are passionate and they have to root for TOM CREAN. TOM CREAN.

Its honestly fans like you which make me think Arizona will never become the program it should be because you are ok being a Top 20 program who does well and has guys in the NBA and is nice and fun and oh look the Ohh Ahh Man, Yippee Hooray.

F*ck Indiana so what if they have to root for Tom Crean.

This is Arizona, you can win a National Championship here now as easily as any place in the country. We will pay very well. We have great facilities now. You can own West Coast recruiting. You get 14,500 fans for every game. You are a God and the weather aint terrible either.

This is a Top 5 job and if Miller ever left before taking us to a final four, there is the damn door

With Arizona football, I will except the fact we will never be a national power, Arizona basketball I refuse to ever go down to that. I expect final fours because I know there is no logical reason we cant make one every year. Sure you need luck on your side which we havent had but i will not remember this season much in a couple years because I consider us a Top 5 program and the only years that are remembered or are cared about are final four years.

You are right; it is as easy to win a Natty at AZ as easily as any place in the country. It should be obvious by virtue of the fact that we have won ONE in our history, in one of Lute's 23 years here.

Second... if you think kids today come to Arizona more because of the program than because of the coach, you need to wake up. Incoming freshmen in the fall were probably born the year of our ONLY natty, and were in pre-school at the time of our last Final 4.

Miller has attained a level of consistent excellence that one could argue Lute never did, or at least not until late in his tenure here. You can whine all you want that it has fallen short of perfection, but there have been ZERO "tournament embarrassments" if you exclude the NIT, which no one gives to sh*ts about. Boo-fucking-hoo that you are sad you can not run around the Peninsula rubbing all your UCLA neighbors' faces in a Final 4 or National Championship.

Finally, my 2nd grader learned 3 weeks ago about the difference between "except" and "accept"; there are a few other areas where you butchered the language in the post above that she could probably help you to correct.

Many Arizona fans will rue the day that Sean Miller ultimately leaves for whatever reason; if you were to leave the fanbase and stop affiliating with the University, I would celebrate the fact that the value of my degree, in the eyes of the people who you encounter, would appreciate immediately.

Moron.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:00 am

Olsondogg wrote:I love when winning/losing just one more game in 2 of the past 3 seasons is the difference between success/failure in some fans eyes. Fans like that need not watch anything leading up to the tourney then.

This is college basketball, not the NBA where teams can take multiple "nights off", even in the playoffs, cause they can get back at the team the next game. The NCAA is a series of "Game 7's" back to back for 3 weeks. True, Arizona has not had luck on it's side, but that's about the only thing it hasn't had.

I watched Stanley yesterday, a player that has basically been a 1 and done since you ever heard his name mentioned. He spoke about his love for all things Arizona, including the program, the town and the fans. He waited until he could wait no more to decide to do what we knew he would, and what you would do if in his shoes. He's 18 years old, and already understands how special this program was.

Then I read comments from "fans" that love to troll on twitter.

I just don't get it.

Chi can say spoiled. I can say that Arizona "fans" have a tendency to be privelged assholes that don't realize how good they have it.

Some of these motherf***s deserve Tim Floyd to teach them a little humility. Or to watch an endless loop of Louisville slaughtering us in the 2009 Sweet 16 to learn that we had fallen from elite status. Or to realize that, in one year, Stanley Johnson gave more benefit to the U of A than most of us will give in our lives combined.

Transport back to 2009 and those same fans would be overjoyed if you told them we would hire Sean Miller and what he would do in his first 6 years. After we had the success, the same fans are pissy about no Final Fours and a run of extremely talented players who are one and done. That is spoiling if I've ever heard it.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:02 am

There are times when I absolutely love our fans, like in Vegas, or the Zags game that I went to, or when I hear a "Bear Down" somewhere when I don't expect it. It all gives me chills.

Yesterday was not one of those days. It was one of the days when I remember that for the most part, I just don't like humans.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:07 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:We're not spoiled, Chi. It's been 14 years. Need I list the schools that have been to multiple FFs during that period?
Then, list the other Pac schools that have been to multiple Elite Eights in that period.
Pretty sure it's only UCLA and Oregon. But the Pac is historically weaker than the Big 10, ACC, and Big East. So comparing our Elite Eights to what a bunch of second or third tier Pac programs have done is a little misleading. I consider non-Pac programs like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UConn, and Duke (just to name a few) to be our true peers, not freaking Washington, Cal, ASU, or any of the other Pac team that's rarely in the tourney.

The comparison ought to be how many teams that went through a clusterf transition have emerged on the other side as elite? Too specific? Then how many endured any coaching change without missing a beat? Kansas ... that's about it.

We were guaranteed nothing post-Lute. Pre-Lute we were nothing special. Miller has shown it can be sustainable.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:09 am

Perhaps some people would rather be cheering the brilliance of a hire that has 42 total wins in place of a coach with 402, as a victory of some sorts...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:09 am

Dosia wrote:Losing in the elite 8 fucking sucks. I swear when the Cats make the final 4 im gonna celebrate like they won the god damn championship.

Losing in any round sucks. I'll take three victories over embarrassing first-round losses to double-digit seeds. Those REALLY suck. Good thing there wasn't Twitter and message boards back then.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:12 am

gumby wrote:
Dosia wrote:Losing in the elite 8 fucking sucks. I swear when the Cats make the final 4 im gonna celebrate like they won the god damn championship.
Losing in any round sucks. I'll take three victories over embarrassing first-round losses to double-digit seeds. Those REALLY suck. Good thing there wasn't Twitter and message boards back then.

I am pretty sure that fans here would have been totally satisfied had we beaten Wisconsin and lost to UK in the next game. There would have been no complaining at all, everyone would be happily holding hands and singing kumbaya...

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:09 am

gumby wrote:
Dosia wrote:Losing in the elite 8 fucking sucks. I swear when the Cats make the final 4 im gonna celebrate like they won the god damn championship.
Losing in any round sucks. I'll take three victories over embarrassing first-round losses to double-digit seeds. Those REALLY suck. Good thing there wasn't Twitter and message boards back then.

Boy, you said it Gary. Bad enough there were @$$holes who went to the McKale subregional in 1993 holding up "Fire Lute" signs after the Santa Clara loss.

Yes, they were serious too. It seems like they represent one of two extremes occupied by most casual U of A fans: They want to get rid of anyone who has given Arizona athletics sustained success because of one setback, or they just think the Cats'll be fine no matter what and ignore problems that can be fixed, no matter how systemic or cultural they become.

A big reason I first started getting involved with this Arizona fan community was that there were people willing to find that middle ground, which I am very proud to have enabled to become part of this board's culture. It'll be my badge of honor with this community, when all is said and done.

But if you're so myopically obsessed with the trappings of success that you can't appreciate the difficulty, the sacrifice and yes, simple destiny it takes for the University of Arizona to be one of those Final Four teams even once a decade, then you'll never be happy.

Live for the program. Live for the people who are Sean Miller, Rich Rodriguez, Matt Dudek, Steve Kerr, Lute Olson, Jerry Kindall, John Perrin, Tom Duddleston, Mike Candrea, Steve Kozachik, Joseph Blair, Damon Stoudamire and countless other Wildcats for Life.

Don't live for the mercurial moments of greatness that the Final Four provides, or you'll never appreciate it because you'll forget all those moments of struggle it took to get there.

That's what made '97 so special. True Wildcats knew what the program had achieved, and how truly difficult it was, and what life's work it was for so many. There is nothing cheap about the peak of that mountain and great adversity to surmount even in the form of other coaches like Krzyzewski, who are fine with fooling you into thinking it comes that easy for them.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:37 am

Well to be fair in 1993 lute had been there 10 years and had only been past the first weekend 3 times. Had 5 first round losses. People had every right to be grumpy then.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:50 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Well to be fair in 1993 lute had been there 10 years and had only been past the first weekend 3 times. Had 5 first round losses. People had every right to be grumpy then.

I question whether any college sports fan really ever has a right to be grumpy with any coach. Most fans acquire 100% correctness via hindsight and think that they could somehow perform better than said coach.

I could coach Arizona better than Sean Miller, but I just prefer to work for a 40th of the salary in middle management instead of demonstrating my obvious superiority on the big stage...

Arizona basketball doesn't really owe me anything. I tend to think most fan bases overinflate their own importance.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:51 am

Lute had also been to two Final Fours by that point, one with Iowa in '80 and one with Arizona in '88. Kentucky had already backed up the Brinks truck to get him to Lexington and he said no.

People could grump all they wanted, but if they were going to be less patient than Iowafan and wanted him fired right then, even then they had no idea what the hell they were talking about.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:48 pm

Fans of programs have no idea how good or bad they have it. Recent examples in the PAC:

uCla fired Howland...who did fantastic things with their program, for Steve Alford.

ASU fired a coach whom had taken them to as many dances as the last 6 coaches that preceded him, for a coach with 42 career victories.

USC hired a coach that nobody had heard of before the 2013 tournament, and that likely nobody will remember in a decade...after they had Tim Floyd do some things that had really never been done there before.

Oregon fired Ernie Kent for a rape apologist coach who will take any transfer out there, no matter the background.

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