Free Throws

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:24 am

Got to improve. Great game by the Cats last night except for Free Throws and the defense at the end of the first half.

If Free Throws do not improvethere will be losses as a result.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:24 am

turd alert

more amazing analysis from the one and only

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:28 am

Miller should make a strategic adjustment and tell the players to make them.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:29 am

55% from everyone except Trier. No reason to panic yet but that stat isn't good.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:45 am

PHXCATS wrote:55% from everyone except Trier. No reason to panic yet but that stat isn't good.

one step further - Trier AND Tarc: 19-20

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:50 am

Without Allonzo and Kaleb and Jacob 14 for 30, but joking about the Jacob part.

Will take 5 for 6 from Kaleb every day/game

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:51 am

PHXCATS wrote:Without Allonzo and Kaleb and Jacob 14 for 30, but joking about the Jacob part.

Will take 5 for 6 from Kaleb every day/game

He can shoot it. I would feel comfortable with him hitting that level consistently.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:55 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Without Allonzo and Kaleb and Jacob 14 for 30, but joking about the Jacob part.

Will take 5 for 6 from Kaleb every day/game
He can shoot it. I would feel comfortable with him hitting that level consistently.

Agree, his improvement with his shot and free throws have been great and I think 80ish percent is a reasonable goal and expectation from him

TheBlackLodge · Post by **TheBlackLodge** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:58 am

Can you elucidate your concerns more, Machina/PHXCATS? Which player(s) are you most worried about?

Is it Ryan Anderson? He shot 75% during his last season at BC on over 200 attempts
Maybe it's Kadeem Allen? His last season he made 74% FT on 371 attempts (most in NJCAA)
Perhaps Gabe York? 81.1% FT shooter last year (71 attempts)
Is PJC the issue? He shot 74% on 43 attempts in his first year
Elliott Pitts mayhaps? Made 79% in the previous season, albeit on only 24 attempts

Zeus and Zo are obviously solid thus far, so who ya fretting about? Dusan? Mark? Chance? REALLY???

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:00 pm

Should probably bench Ryan huh? That jerk

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:03 pm

TheBlackLodge wrote:Can you elucidate your concerns more, Machina/PHXCATS? Which player(s) are you most worried about?

Is it Ryan Anderson? He shot 75% during his last season at BC on over 200 attempts
Maybe it's Kadeem Allen? His last season he made 74% FT on 371 attempts (most in NJCAA)
Perhaps Gabe York? 81.1% FT shooter last year (71 attempts)
Is PJC the issue? He shot 74% on 43 attempts in his first year
Elliott Pitts mayhaps? Made 79% in the previous season, albeit on only 24 attempts

Zeus and Zo are obviously solid thus far, so who ya fretting about? Dusan? Mark? Chance? REALLY???

That's why I posted about telling them to make shots. This is a solid group of shooters. They don't always fall. All colleges teach the same basic thing for FT's. Short of just telling them to shoot better, all that can be done is getting a group of decent shooters back to the mean.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:04 pm

Just think it needs to be better across the board most games and I said it was no reason to panic yet. Need to see what happens over the next few games to say who I am worried about. But off the top of my head I don't think you can expect the same percentages from Anderson and Allen. TJ dropped off a lot his first year at U of A.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:09 pm

It happens, and it's only two games. Team is shooting 71.4 percent. You really think York and Pitts are going to shoot 0% for the season, thats where they are at now? Ryan Anderson was 8-11 in game one and still 65% after last night's showing. Tollefsen is better than 50%. PCJ is better than 60%.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:18 pm

PHXCATS wrote:Just think it needs to be better across the board most games and I said it was no reason to panic yet. Need to see what happens over the next few games to say who I am worried about. But off the top of my head I don't think you can expect the same percentages from Anderson and Allen. TJ dropped off a lot his first year at U of A.

So did Mark Lyons when he transferred. He shot 76% his last year at Xavier and then 86% at Arizo.....Wait, numbers can't ever be deceiving!

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:24 pm

TheBlackLodge wrote:Can you elucidate your concerns more, Machina/PHXCATS? Which player(s) are you most worried about?

Is it Ryan Anderson? He shot 75% during his last season at BC on over 200 attempts
Maybe it's Kadeem Allen? His last season he made 74% FT on 371 attempts (most in NJCAA)
Perhaps Gabe York? 81.1% FT shooter last year (71 attempts)
Is PJC the issue? He shot 74% on 43 attempts in his first year
Elliott Pitts mayhaps? Made 79% in the previous season, albeit on only 24 attempts

Zeus and Zo are obviously solid thus far, so who ya fretting about? Dusan? Mark? Chance? REALLY???

Hey, you stop that! Your facts are getting in the way of an agenda!

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:25 pm

But how did we shoot them against St. Mary's?

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:45 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Miller should make a strategic adjustment and tell the players to make them.

He's too busy wooing the Phoenix alums for this.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:48 pm

salim'sheadband wrote:But how did we shoot them against St. Mary's?

Didn't get to the line. So, perfect!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:37 pm

salim'sheadband wrote:But how did we shoot them against St. Mary's?

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:59 pm

This is a real problem guys. We are 15th in the nation in missed free throws. If we don't get this under control we are likely to end up on the wrong side of the bubble. ***sarcasm***

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:28 pm

PHXCATS wrote:Just think it needs to be better across the board most games and I said it was no reason to panic yet. Need to see what happens over the next few games to say who I am worried about. But off the top of my head I don't think you can expect the same percentages from Anderson and Allen. TJ dropped off a lot his first year at U of A.

You do understand the level of opponent and the size/ athleticism of its personnel has no impact on FREE THROW shooting, right?

If you think TJ's drop in FT shooting is sufficient data to draw a conclusion, then you might want to read this in your spare time. And pay close attention where the term"sample size" is mentioned.

http://www.amazon.com/Statistics-For-Du ... 0470911085" target="_blank

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:31 pm

TheBlackLodge wrote:Can you elucidate your concerns more, Machina/PHXCATS? Which player(s) are you most worried about?

Is it Ryan Anderson? He shot 75% during his last season at BC on over 200 attempts
Maybe it's Kadeem Allen? His last season he made 74% FT on 371 attempts (most in NJCAA)
Perhaps Gabe York? 81.1% FT shooter last year (71 attempts)
Is PJC the issue? He shot 74% on 43 attempts in his first year
Elliott Pitts mayhaps? Made 79% in the previous season, albeit on only 24 attempts

Zeus and Zo are obviously solid thus far, so who ya fretting about? Dusan? Mark? Chance? REALLY???

You just lit a match that torched the straw man argument that is the basis for this thread 2 games into the season.

Just goes to show how deep Miller's detractors need to dig to try and cast a shadow over our elite BB program.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:38 pm

What a surprise... Machina and phxcats being completely wrong.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:09 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Just think it needs to be better across the board most games and I said it was no reason to panic yet. Need to see what happens over the next few games to say who I am worried about. But off the top of my head I don't think you can expect the same percentages from Anderson and Allen. TJ dropped off a lot his first year at U of A.
You do understand the level of opponent and the size/ athleticism of its personnel has no impact on FREE THROW shooting, right?

If you think TJ's drop in FT shooting is sufficient data to draw a conclusion, then you might want to read this in your spare time. And pay close attention where the term"sample size" is mentioned.

http://www.amazon.com/Statistics-For-Du ... 0470911085" target="_blank

I don't know. I think Miller would benefit from focusing on free throw defense. We're letting people shoot a higher percentage from the line than we should be. Mixing in zone would help.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:42 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Just think it needs to be better across the board most games and I said it was no reason to panic yet. Need to see what happens over the next few games to say who I am worried about. But off the top of my head I don't think you can expect the same percentages from Anderson and Allen. TJ dropped off a lot his first year at U of A.
You do understand the level of opponent and the size/ athleticism of its personnel has no impact on FREE THROW shooting, right?

If you think TJ's drop in FT shooting is sufficient data to draw a conclusion, then you might want to read this in your spare time. And pay close attention where the term"sample size" is mentioned.

http://www.amazon.com/Statistics-For-Du ... 0470911085" target="_blank

I don't understand what you are talking about here. I said TJ's percentage decreased his first year here because BL mentioned Allen and Anderson's percentages at their prior schools. I was only saying we cannot bank on those. Sorry if it was worded in a way that gave a different impression. I agree though that this years team should be a good FT shooting team overall, but everyone needs to be over 55% for the year or else we may see hack a xxxxx.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:03 pm

Machina wrote:Got to improve.

Yeah, we only won by 30. That's just not going to cut it in Machina World.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:49 am

This is an odd thread.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:05 am

Machina is an odd little turd

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:18 am

Puerco wrote:This is an odd thread.

Some people think that if you're not complaining, you're not living.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:07 am

Some days I feel a little bad reading all the piling-on that occurs when Phoechina posts....but then I remember there's a reason he's on my ignore list and that he brings it upon himself. (p.s., thank you to those who don't quote him!)

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:55 am

Sample size matters. Surely even Machina know this.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:37 am

So much twattage in this thread.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:27 am

Puerco wrote:Sample size matters. Surely even Machina know this.

Are you talking about free throws or Machina posts?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:07 am

Michigan State was a final four team last year despite shooting 63 percent from the line for the season. They were 336th out of 351 teams. Therefore, this should be a huge worry for us after two games.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:13 am

Chicat wrote:
Puerco wrote:Sample size matters. Surely even Machina know this.
Are you talking about free throws or Machina posts?

Free throws clearly. Of the other we have plenty.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:24 am

I just wanted to post in this thread

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:26 pm

Machina scared them into 14-17 tonight!

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:07 pm

Problem solved. Miller can stay . . . . . for now.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:31 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Michigan State was a final four team last year despite shooting 63 percent from the line for the season. They were 336th out of 351 teams. Therefore, this should be a huge worry for us after two games.

This team reminds me of the '96-97 team. They could not shoot free throws during the regular season either, but made them when they counted.

And just to be clear, my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek as I typed the first sentence above.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:34 pm

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:08 am

Somebody's been trolling CSM about the free throws...

“I would have said a month ago one of the differences in this year’s team and the last couple is overall we’re a better shooting team and also a dynamic free throw shooting team,” Miller said. “We really can make them but neither in my opinion has really shown up in four games.”

Arizona’s 12-for-24 effort from the line Sunday brought it down to 68.8 percent overall so far this season.

How can you be a 'dynamic free throw shooting team' now that Rondae's gone?

http://tucson.com/sports/blogs/pascoe/a ... d3f27.html

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:18 pm

29-45 16 points left off the board.

But seriously, 45 FT attempts?

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:19 pm

Merkin wrote:29-45 16 points left off the board.

But seriously, 45 FT attempts?

Weird weird game.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:53 pm

For once, it can be said that Arizona actually got some home cooking. Both calls to foul out Welsh and Parker were a joke, especially Parker.

We got some bad ones too (the Kadeem no touch being the worst), but the FT disparity was noticeable. I counted 9 horrible calls on UCLA and only 5 horrible ones on us.

The incompetence of these major conference refs is astounding at times.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:55 pm

PennZona20 wrote:For once, it can be said that Arizona actually got some home cooking. Both calls to foul out Welsh and Parker were a joke, especially Parker.

We got some bad ones too (the Kadeem no touch being the worst), but the FT disparity was noticeable. I counted 9 horrible calls on UCLA and only 5 horrible ones on us.

The incompetence of these major conference refs is astounding at times.

Someone tweeted that it was some of the same refs from the Boise State fiasco the other night.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:03 pm

Wouldn't surprise me. No accountability = mediocrity. And I saw the NCAA backing the refs decision the other night.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:31 pm

We were getting hosed in the first half, not just w the fouls. Second half I think we got the slight lean but thought they were just bad in general.

Foul shooting can be misleading and tonight was no exception. If team A fouls 60 times in a game annd are called for 30, and team B fouls 25 times and only 20 are called, does that 30 to 20 disparity mean the refs were pro team B? We were the more aggressive team, our driving was more deliberate, our bigs were putting in work inside, etc. UCLA, especially second half, was content with a lot of chucking and ISO play. We also defended better. There were a lot more than five bad calls against us in the first half alone. There was a reason Miller was so worked up and I was shocked he didnt pick up a T.

Ive never been so vocal against refs in a game than in that first half. Ive never heard mckale so vocal. It was bad. The refs even had extra security around them leaving the floor at the half. I mean bad.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:41 am

PennZona20 wrote:For once, it can be said that Arizona actually got some home cooking. Both calls to foul out Welsh and Parker were a joke, especially Parker.

We got some bad ones too (the Kadeem no touch being the worst), but the FT disparity was noticeable. I counted 9 horrible calls on UCLA and only 5 horrible ones on us.

The incompetence of these major conference refs is astounding at times.

It was Pasch and Walton's running commentary all night, even more than Walton's usual sideshows.

Second half was home cooking enough, but it'll be the last time Arizona misses 16 free throws in a game and still beats UCLA.

I don't care if the Bruins make the field or not this year--that's way too many points to leave off the board. At least six turnovers, in my book. SC will be tougher, and Zeus will need to dominate even more.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:33 am

Seriously, guys? 29 of 45 is 64%. If the team shoots it's usual 72% that gets us three more points. Three. Shooting 64 when you average 72 is bad, but hardly outlier bad.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:54 am

A lot of that was Trier 9/10 though.

Normally reliable guys like Zeus and Kadeem were bad, and that doesn't look good.

Also didn't say 5 bad calls on Zona, said 5 blatantly horrible ones. I would reverse ur arguement. Slight lean against zona in 1st half and tilted badly in favor of Zona in 2nd.

Either way the refs were atrocious and that Call on Kadeem brought back memories of the Lakers v Kings where a dude drove in and other guy held up not to touch him and still a foul called.

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