Thoughts on a 7-6 season Rich Rod Year 4

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:05 pm

Some quick takes:

The Good
Won a bowl game, finished above .500
Got lots of backup reps for next year
Orlando Bradford looks promising, maybe even Dawkins if/when Anu gets hurt next year

The Bad
7-6. Got boat raced in 3 of those losses
Injuries & concussions
RR almost abandoning his post
Super Atrocious Defense
Snaps over quarterbacks heads a recurring problem
Lost to ASU
Low football IQ this team had, endless mistakes

Sure there's plenty more on both good and bad, mind trying to erase this season.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:09 pm

We are going to be a very deep team as far as having experienced players.

The Butcher · Post by **The Butcher** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:19 pm

I think I'd rather set my pubes on fire than watch another year of the 3 3 5 defense. Completely over it.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:26 pm

How much does anyone want to bet RR never answers another question about Casteel for the rest of his tenure here?

He'll blow right over it in interviews and just stick the status quo down this defense's throat until it stops playing for him.

That could be sooner than he thinks if he doesn't make meaningful change. My Spidey sense tells me he never will.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:27 pm

The Butcher wrote:I think I'd rather set my pubes on fire than watch another year of the 3 3 5 defense. Completely over it.

Agree

chiefzona · Post by **chiefzona** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:50 pm

Buncha Negative Nancy's here! The 3-3-5 is bomb!

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:57 pm

Underwhelming is the word

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:27 pm

Credit to the staff for 4 straight bowl games (although we have played 3 cream puff OOC foes each year)

Next year doesn't look encouraging:

Defense:
We lose our best DL (Gilbert)
We lose our best LB (Scooby)
We lose our best Safety (Parks)
Logically, another 100-120 defensive ranking looks probable

Offense:
We lose our best OL (Bundage)
We lose our best OT (Maiva)
Hopefully Cayleb Jones doesn't jump to the league or we will have a WR corps of smurfs

Our redshirt freshman class doesn't look particularly encouraging.
We have two defensive coaches who won't leave Tucson to recruit.

RRod needs to assess his "I don't need to play defense if I just outscore the opposition" theory of football. It has worked against OOC creampuffs and the bottom 1/4 of the PAC12 for the past 4 years, but in the long run its not going to get the UA to the Rose Bowl.

I think the BYU game will be the critical game next year (Not UDUB who is likely to crush us). Lose to BYU and we are probably staring at 5-6 (at best) going into the Territorial Cup.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:35 pm

dmjcat wrote:Credit to current bowl structure for 4 straight bowl games after playing 3 cream puff OOC foes each year.

FYP. We beat 1 BCS conf team with a winning record; the other 2 came against teams that combined for a single BCS conf win (and that came against a team that was winless in conference).

Whatever, the season is over and much better to win than to have lost. I am happy the seniors got to go out on a high note.

2016... Time to deliver.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:56 pm

With all the injuries, I am satisfied (not overjoyed) with this season. During the bowl game, the commentators mentioned that Arizona has had 42 different starters because of injuries. That's like starting the entire second string part of the time. Even worse on defense, where there have been 27 different starters. And that with no bye week. I will definitely give the benefit of the doubt on this season.

Oh, yeah, also, 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 bowl games in a row, and 3-1 in bowl games. Hard to remember a stretch like that. Looking forward to better things next season. BEAR DOWN!!!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:16 pm

Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:12 pm

I will never be satisfied with Arizona Football until we make a rose bowl which at this point looks it is not going to happen anytime soon

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:30 pm

Newportcat wrote:I will never be satisfied with Arizona Football until we make a rose bowl which at this point looks it is not going to happen anytime soon

I have been waiting 34 years since I was a freshman, and we are about as far away from a Rose Bowl appearance as we have ever been.

6-6, 3-9, doesn't really make a difference for the Rose Bowl.

tgrumpy2 · Post by **tgrumpy2** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:23 pm

I wish people here weren't so doom and gloom on things for next year. First of all our offense is going to be incredible next year. Even if Cayleb goes to the NFL and even though we're losing two linemen. We're keeping three and those guys that are leaving had backups that played a lot. We're even going to have a real center next year. Yea defense needs to get better and I've already spoken out about that one, they got a pass from me this year. Look how many babies are on that defense. Redshirt freshmen, true freshmen, sophomores are on that depth chart. They don't have to be desert swarm next year, they just have to be better. I'm going to wait and see how things play out next year before I jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:51 pm

You haven't seen this program's national defensive rankings annually under RR, have you?

There will be no Win Big year. There might be a Lie Big year next season, but that's about it.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:58 pm

Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.

This... it is nearly a meaningless stat. And not worth nearly as much as those who keep trumpeting it would suggest.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:01 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.
This... it is nearly a meaningless stat. And not worth nearly as much as those who keep trumpeting it would suggest.

Mostly... But there's still lots of teams that can't do it.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:08 pm

A losing season should never be rewarded with a bowl.

Just like coaches who don't recruit never should be rewarded with contract extensions. Talk about your bloated welfare programs.

jimson · Post by **jimson** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:29 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.
This... it is nearly a meaningless stat. And not worth nearly as much as those who keep trumpeting it would suggest.

No kidding, 4 straight bowl appearances? So what? Tomey would have done it twice if he hadn't had a 6-5 and a 7-4 team that didn't get a bowl invite.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:52 pm

tgrumpy2 wrote:I wish people here weren't so doom and gloom on things for next year. First of all our offense is going to be incredible next year. Even if Cayleb goes to the NFL and even though we're losing two linemen. We're keeping three and those guys that are leaving had backups that played a lot. We're even going to have a real center next year. Yea defense needs to get better and I've already spoken out about that one, they got a pass from me this year. Look how many babies are on that defense. Redshirt freshmen, true freshmen, sophomores are on that depth chart. They don't have to be desert swarm next year, they just have to be better. I'm going to wait and see how things play out next year before I jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon.

We are doom and gloom because we have seen this movie before. I bet Cayleb leaves next year and when you look at our roster we have little to no NFL talent.

If you look at our 1998 team, there was NFL talent everywhere, 12 guys who were contributors on that team were later drafted. How many guys on next years team who will be main contributors that will get drafted?

Offense - Alsadek, Wilson, and maybe grant if he shows up next year. Maybe Elitese comes in and contributes right away
Defense - Neal, maybe Denson but big maybe, then no one else

The lack of talent is glaring and no amount of systems can fix that

Thats why I am not super fired up about next year. It takes Talent to make a rose bowl, we lack Talent so tough for me to be excited.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:05 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.
This... it is nearly a meaningless stat. And not worth nearly as much as those who keep trumpeting it would suggest.
Mostly... But there's still lots of teams that can't do it.

Interesting point... I would be curious to know what % of BCS conference teams have had overall records of 0.500 each of the past 4 seasons. I'll be it is a much higher %age than you think.

Stoops would have made 4 bowl games in the 5 seasons preceding the one in which he was fired if his 6-6 team (which was 4-5 in conference, by the way) had gotten a bowl bid. He would have won the division if it existed in his next to last full season, and had a better cumulative conference record in his last 4 full seasons than we have in the last 4.

Next season should be interesting... Precedent would suggest it is make or break time.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:16 pm

Newportcat wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I wish people here weren't so doom and gloom on things for next year. First of all our offense is going to be incredible next year. Even if Cayleb goes to the NFL and even though we're losing two linemen. We're keeping three and those guys that are leaving had backups that played a lot. We're even going to have a real center next year. Yea defense needs to get better and I've already spoken out about that one, they got a pass from me this year. Look how many babies are on that defense. Redshirt freshmen, true freshmen, sophomores are on that depth chart. They don't have to be desert swarm next year, they just have to be better. I'm going to wait and see how things play out next year before I jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon.
We are doom and gloom because we have seen this movie before. I bet Cayleb leaves next year and when you look at our roster we have little to no NFL talent.

If you look at our 1998 team, there was NFL talent everywhere, 12 guys who were contributors on that team were later drafted. How many guys on next years team who will be main contributors that will get drafted?

Offense - Alsadek, Wilson, and maybe grant if he shows up next year. Maybe Elitese comes in and contributes right away
Defense - Neal, maybe Denson but big maybe, then no one else

The lack of talent is glaring and no amount of systems can fix that

Thats why I am not super fired up about next year. It takes Talent to make a rose bowl, we lack Talent so tough for me to be excited.

First, get your head out of the clouds, dude. While I would love for us to win a conference championship, I can be very satisfied with our team and program if we don't.

As for talent... I think Jones would be foolish to leave after this season; we have had better receivers who have not stuck in the league. He is a physical specimen, but he is not that fast... He makes some great catches, but he also drops a lot.

Grant is not playing in the NFL, and (short of a dramatic metamorphosis) Neal is not either. As for Denson, I am not sure he should even be starting on a D that could not sniff the Top 100; he is a complete liability.

If Wilson can stay healthy I think he can be a guy who plays on Sunday's. I would not hold my breath on anyone else that saw a lot of time this season... But I hope I am pleasantly surprised.

Everyone pointed to our limited representation on the the P12 All-Conference teams in RR's first season as evidence of how bare Stoops left the cupboard. It is safe to assume Scoob would have made it again had he not been injured - but no other potential All-P12 players were lost to injury (edit: maybe Wilson).

Infer from that what you will...

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:00 am

Harvey Specter wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.
This... it is nearly a meaningless stat. And not worth nearly as much as those who keep trumpeting it would suggest.
Mostly... But there's still lots of teams that can't do it.
Interesting point... I would be curious to know what % of BCS conference teams have had overall records of 0.500 each of the past 4 seasons. I'll be it is a much higher %age than you think.

Stoops would have made 4 bowl games in the 5 seasons preceding the one in which he was fired if his 6-6 team (which was 4-5 in conference, by the way) had gotten a bowl bid. He would have won the division if it existed in his next to last full season, and had a better cumulative conference record in his last 4 full seasons than we have in the last 4.

Next season should be interesting... Precedent would suggest it is make or break time.

Shocking! You cherry picked Stoops 4 best seasons instead of comparing his first 4 seasons to RR's.

Just kidding I'm not shocked at all.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:32 am

Fishclamps wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.
This... it is nearly a meaningless stat. And not worth nearly as much as those who keep trumpeting it would suggest.
Mostly... But there's still lots of teams that can't do it.
Interesting point... I would be curious to know what % of BCS conference teams have had overall records of 0.500 each of the past 4 seasons. I'll be it is a much higher %age than you think.

Stoops would have made 4 bowl games in the 5 seasons preceding the one in which he was fired if his 6-6 team (which was 4-5 in conference, by the way) had gotten a bowl bid. He would have won the division if it existed in his next to last full season, and had a better cumulative conference record in his last 4 full seasons than we have in the last 4.

Next season should be interesting... Precedent would suggest it is make or break time.
Shocking! You cherry picked Stoops 4 best seasons instead of comparing his first 4 seasons to RR's.

Just kidding I'm not shocked at all.

His last four are more relevant, because they reflect what he did prior to termination. How much did we pay Stoops? I cannot remember....

And if you think the program that RR Inherited was in similar shape to the one that Mackovic left Stoops, please state so. It will confirm that my inclination to put you on ignore is the right one.

Watch our basketball team the last few weeks? Not a single returning starter, without 40% of our projected starting line-up, and between 30-38% of our projected rotation currently unavailable. No need for excuses... We have lost a single game and are hovering just outside the Top 10. Legitimately.

Slurp away, sycophant.

PS - Good luck in your senior season, Rhett.

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:44 am

Fantastic comparison, arizona basketball to Arizona football? They are absolutely on the same level and have been through the their entire existence at this school.

Cupboard bare or not, RR and his assistants instituted a completely new system on the offensive and defensive side, no small feat.

So yeah, I think I will go ahead and continue to white knight RR even though I like everyone else am sick of this defense.

Either compare their first 4 seasons or wait to compare them after they have the same amount of games under their belts.

Don't be a bitch and cherry pick seasons or try to compare what the legacy of our bball program affords us in recruiting when talking about football. Arizona football will probably not ever reach the heights of our basketball program as much as people believe it to be true.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:19 am

Merkin wrote:Never want to hear the consecutive bowl appearances again. With 35 bowls you only need 6-6 to get in, and even then maybe a 5-7 will. You can play a Div IAA team every year now too.

It's not like the UA plays teams like Notre Dame any more.

I'd also prefer to never hear that particular stat again. It's so devalued at this point. Beat 3 OOC creampuffs, and then go 3-6 in division? hey, bowl game for you! (not to mention y ou could go 2-7 in division and still get a bowl now-a-days)

I like having the extra game, and like even more winning that extra game, but 7-6 is still a disappointing year overall and the "consecutive years" of bowl games means zilch if 6-6 is what got you there.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:45 am

Hell 5 teams in our own conference can't say they've been to four straight bowls. It's diluted more than ever, but it still isn't something to sneer at. Any Arizona football fan from 1999-2008 would punch you in the face for sneering at four straight.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:54 am

Disappointing season, more so for me as it relates to the injuries and the impact on a season that could have been very satisfying.

Lots of concerns going forward. The biggest is RR's seemingly blind eye in fixing the defense. It was bad at Michingan and it is bad at Arizona. I think we can get more out of the talent we have and I do believe it is as much scheme related as anything.

We seem to be back to where we once were. 7(or 8 wins in a 12 game season)win program who occasionally has a great season and can follow it with a clunker.

I can't believe we are going to waste 6M+ in retention money on those kind of results. I hope the folks that donated those shares are not happy either

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:10 am

Harvey Specter wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I wish people here weren't so doom and gloom on things for next year. First of all our offense is going to be incredible next year. Even if Cayleb goes to the NFL and even though we're losing two linemen. We're keeping three and those guys that are leaving had backups that played a lot. We're even going to have a real center next year. Yea defense needs to get better and I've already spoken out about that one, they got a pass from me this year. Look how many babies are on that defense. Redshirt freshmen, true freshmen, sophomores are on that depth chart. They don't have to be desert swarm next year, they just have to be better. I'm going to wait and see how things play out next year before I jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon.
We are doom and gloom because we have seen this movie before. I bet Cayleb leaves next year and when you look at our roster we have little to no NFL talent.

If you look at our 1998 team, there was NFL talent everywhere, 12 guys who were contributors on that team were later drafted. How many guys on next years team who will be main contributors that will get drafted?

Offense - Alsadek, Wilson, and maybe grant if he shows up next year. Maybe Elitese comes in and contributes right away
Defense - Neal, maybe Denson but big maybe, then no one else

The lack of talent is glaring and no amount of systems can fix that

Thats why I am not super fired up about next year. It takes Talent to make a rose bowl, we lack Talent so tough for me to be excited.
First, get your head out of the clouds, dude. While I would love for us to win a conference championship, I can be very satisfied with our team and program if we don't.

As for talent... I think Jones would be foolish to leave after this season; we have had better receivers who have not stuck in the league. He is a physical specimen, but he is not that fast... He makes some great catches, but he also drops a lot.

Grant is not playing in the NFL, and (short of a dramatic metamorphosis) Neal is not either. As for Denson, I am not sure he should even be starting on a D that could not sniff the Top 100; he is a complete liability.

If Wilson can stay healthy I think he can be a guy who plays on Sunday's. I would not hold my breath on anyone else that saw a lot of time this season... But I hope I am pleasantly surprised.

Everyone pointed to our limited representation on the the P12 All-Conference teams in RR's first season as evidence of how bare Stoops left the cupboard. It is safe to assume Scoob would have made it again had he not been injured - but no other potential All-P12 players were lost to injury (edit: maybe Wilson).

Infer from that what you will...

Are you saying for me to get my head out of the clouds? Assuming you are being sarcastic again because I will never be satisfied with Arizona Football until we make a Rose Bowl. To make a Rose Bowl you need talent, our team does not have talent therefore we are not making a Rose Bowl anytime soon. Every year we do not make a rose bowl at this point is a forgetable season just like every season we don't make a final four in basketball is the same for me.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:13 am

One 7 win season after winning 10 isn't a pattern. If we're going 6-6 in 2016 and 2017 yes, but we still have to see what happens next year to say that this is what we are. We can/should win 8-9 regular season games next year if we don't have the bad luck we had this year. Casteel does need to be fired but I'm giving it all of next season before I ever get on the fire RR bandwagon that so many here are on.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:13 am

Over the years, I try to limit comparing current AZ teams to past AZ teams. Schemes differ, styles differ, CFB landscape differs. I do more often now compare current AZ team to their competition in the Pac12.
I don't think Bowl games is a "reward" (glad, more emphasis given to players during a Bowl). Bowl games a Money Making Business Venture. Why there are so many now. It's about Money for the most part.

I would much prefer AZ go 6-3 in conference play AND go to a Bowl rather than buy into the hype of going to 4 straight Bowl games in which only ONE of those years AZ had a winning conference record.

One.

3-6 conference record and Hey, let's boast (school) going to 4th straight Bowl game. One can celebrate it, But I don't like settling for that. Get a trophy for participating. Participation Trophy. 3-6. I do like Bowl season, the Major Bowls. And I do like the fact Players have more emphasis and swag given to them for the Bowl games.

For those saying Injuries and benefit of the doubt... Fine, but is there anything solid in the last 4 years that jumps out the Defense will be significantly better next year? Something solid to point to that makes you sure it will be? Or is there more on the last 4 years of Resume that leads you to think maybe not?

Not surprising even with Scooby playing, New Mexico racked up the most yards they had all season against AZ. That's the formula. Score more points, recruit to the offense, convert WR's to DB's and back again if needed. Recruit players that are interchangeable. Do that with TE's too. Focus on offense and make that the strength and try to make the Defense just good enough to make enough stops. Preferably in the RZ.

10 years from now, it will look like a winning season with a Bowl victory. And it was..

But then, NINE other Pac12 teams had more conference wins than AZ this season. 10 years from now, If one looks closely, that will show up too. But AZ went to another Bowl Game. Winning season sure, but most of the other Pac12 schools had more "successful" conference play season. And that's real too. Undeniable

Conference Record
Stan 8-1
Ore 7-2
USC 6-3
Utah 6-3
Wazzu 6-3
UCLA 5-4
Cal 4-5
ASU 4-5
Wash 4-5
Arizona 3-6
COL 1-8
OreSt 0-9

Happy for Scooby, happy the Seniors got to go out with a Win.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:15 am

Newport, Your life must be really shitty as a fan if you forget any non rose bowl or final 4 season. It's unrealistic to expect those things every year...I don't care if you're a Kentucky basketball fan or Ohio state football fan. I enjoy every Arizona season through it's highs and lows.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:19 am

ASUHATER! wrote:One 7 win season after winning 10 isn't a pattern. If we're going 6-6 in 2016 and 2017 yes, but we still have to see what happens next year to say that this is what we are. We can/should win 8-9 regular season games next year if we don't have the bad luck we had this year. Casteel does need to be fired but I'm giving it all of next season before I ever get on the fire RR bandwagon that so many here are on.

I don't necessarily disagree but we have won 7 or 8 games in 3 of the last 4 years and defensively, we suck.

If we can keep Anu and Wilson healthy we have a chance to outscore teams but generally a constant in championship teams is defense. At least a decent defense

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:26 am

Which is why we need to fire casteel and hire real defensive coaches asap but I'm not holding my breath. And I count the 8 win seasons in 2012-2013 successes. Not disappointed about those at all.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:50 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Which is why we need to fire casteel and hire real defensive coaches asap but I'm not holding my breath. And I count the 8 win seasons in 2012-2013 successes. Not disappointed about those at all.

Once again I agree and the comment you made about not holding your breath on coaching changes us why I can't believe we are going to waste 6M on RR.

For as much love as we have shown him you would think he could see what we all do.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:45 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Which is why we need to fire casteel and hire real defensive coaches asap but I'm not holding my breath. And I count the 8 win seasons in 2012-2013 successes. Not disappointed about those at all.

Again who is RR going to hired if He fired Casteel??????????????? No one.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:47 am

cordera89 wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Which is why we need to fire casteel and hire real defensive coaches asap but I'm not holding my breath. And I count the 8 win seasons in 2012-2013 successes. Not disappointed about those at all.
Again who is RR going to hired if He fired Casteel??????????????? No one.

So you're saying that if casteel was fired that RR would leave the DC job open. Ok then

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:01 am

Newportcat wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
tgrumpy2 wrote:I wish people here weren't so doom and gloom on things for next year. First of all our offense is going to be incredible next year. Even if Cayleb goes to the NFL and even though we're losing two linemen. We're keeping three and those guys that are leaving had backups that played a lot. We're even going to have a real center next year. Yea defense needs to get better and I've already spoken out about that one, they got a pass from me this year. Look how many babies are on that defense. Redshirt freshmen, true freshmen, sophomores are on that depth chart. They don't have to be desert swarm next year, they just have to be better. I'm going to wait and see how things play out next year before I jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon.
We are doom and gloom because we have seen this movie before. I bet Cayleb leaves next year and when you look at our roster we have little to no NFL talent.

If you look at our 1998 team, there was NFL talent everywhere, 12 guys who were contributors on that team were later drafted. How many guys on next years team who will be main contributors that will get drafted?

Offense - Alsadek, Wilson, and maybe grant if he shows up next year. Maybe Elitese comes in and contributes right away
Defense - Neal, maybe Denson but big maybe, then no one else

The lack of talent is glaring and no amount of systems can fix that

Thats why I am not super fired up about next year. It takes Talent to make a rose bowl, we lack Talent so tough for me to be excited.
First, get your head out of the clouds, dude. While I would love for us to win a conference championship, I can be very satisfied with our team and program if we don't.

As for talent... I think Jones would be foolish to leave after this season; we have had better receivers who have not stuck in the league. He is a physical specimen, but he is not that fast... He makes some great catches, but he also drops a lot.

Grant is not playing in the NFL, and (short of a dramatic metamorphosis) Neal is not either. As for Denson, I am not sure he should even be starting on a D that could not sniff the Top 100; he is a complete liability.

If Wilson can stay healthy I think he can be a guy who plays on Sunday's. I would not hold my breath on anyone else that saw a lot of time this season... But I hope I am pleasantly surprised.

Everyone pointed to our limited representation on the the P12 All-Conference teams in RR's first season as evidence of how bare Stoops left the cupboard. It is safe to assume Scoob would have made it again had he not been injured - but no other potential All-P12 players were lost to injury (edit: maybe Wilson).

Infer from that what you will...
Are you saying for me to get my head out of the clouds? Assuming you are being sarcastic again because I will never be satisfied with Arizona Football until we make a Rose Bowl. To make a Rose Bowl you need talent, our team does not have talent therefore we are not making a Rose Bowl anytime soon. Every year we do not make a rose bowl at this point is a forgetable season just like every season we don't make a final four in basketball is the same for me.

I am saying that if you cannot be happy with Arizona until we make a Rose Bowl (which should read 'win a conference championship') then you should stop being a fan until further notice, because we are very far away from achieving that objective. I am also saying that your assessment of who from this team is playing on Sundays is very optimistic - and seems to be judged based on ranking coming out of HS while ignoring production/ effectiveness at the current level.

Someday I hope we get there... but let's see a program that has a team that consistently wins more than they lose in P12 play. That would make me happy, and would signify progress towards our ultimate goal. I want to enjoy the ride... but I don't see signs that we are progressing on a trajectory that will lead us to the promised land.

Baby steps... and embrace the process.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:09 am

ASUHATER! wrote:One 7 win season after winning 10 isn't a pattern. If we're going 6-6 in 2016 and 2017 yes, but we still have to see what happens next year to say that this is what we are. We can/should win 8-9 regular season games next year if we don't have the bad luck we had this year. Casteel does need to be fired but I'm giving it all of next season before I ever get on the fire RR bandwagon that so many here are on.

I don't think I have seen anyone calling for RR to be fired. I would obviously include myself among those that believe if we don't show tangible progress next season with certain excpectations (8 regular season wins, 5 P-12 wins, competitive in losses, etc) then I think it should be on the table.

We make those things happen and I don't think anyone will be calling for his ouster. Have a repeat of this season (or worse) and yes - I think there will be a contingent calling for that to happen. Another 6-6 year and he may not get the axe, but the temperature on his seat gets very hot - with no fan support for any raises or extensions.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:25 am

I personally think that anything less than 8-4 regular season next year puts him at least on the edge of the hot seat for 2017. A losing season or a like 6-7 where we lose in a crappy bowl and/or Asu and he's definitely on the hot seat for 2017. Go like 6-7 in 2016 and it's 9 wins or out in 2017 for me.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:43 am

I have an even shorter leash than you people. I think he needs to go 4=5 in conference next year at least, or he should be out/on a very hot seat. He has the facilities. He has the money. He has the fan support. He has everything you need to succeed here. If he decides to neglect defense, keep Casteel, and go on another 6-6 year with a loss to ASU, that's his prerogative, but I wouldn't mind if he took the next South Carolina job that fell his way.

Yeah, he's a pretty great offensive coach. Yes, I appreciate all that he's done so far here. But, if we're ever going to maximize the potential of our Football program, especially with the tens of millions of dollars that we've already spent, then we need to have a coach who makes us competitive in ALL phases of the game. If RR doesn't make a change at DC, we will always be a see-saw program, and the trend is pointing downwards.

Other schools would have fired him, why can't we also have high expectations? We're not USC, but we're not Oregon State or Colorado either.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:15 pm

Funny, just as no one is calling for his head (just yet), I don't hear any blind support for the man. No more, "he just needs more time" (it's year 5). No more, "the team was riddled with injuries" (it was, but he's no longer getting a pass on that). No more, "we're lucky to have him" (are we?). It's all, "just win, baby". I agree.

CatsbyAZ · Post by **CatsbyAZ** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:51 pm

qwertyus wrote:I have an even shorter leash than you people. I think he needs to go 4=5 in conference next year at least, or he should be out/on a very hot seat. He has the facilities. He has the money. He has the fan support. He has everything you need to succeed here. If he decides to neglect defense, keep Casteel, and go on another 6-6 year with a loss to ASU, that's his prerogative, but I wouldn't mind if he took the next South Carolina job that fell his way.

I think this is what we're cornered with, a 4-5 conference season being succesful for us. It's already been stated in this thread, but the offense will be outstanding, but the defense is a big worry. Basically more of the same. The state (or identity) of Arizona football is that of a 7 win program that if things fall right can reel off 10 wins, like last year. If that sounds like plateauing, for perspective that exactly what UCLA and ASU are going through as well, and with less content from their fanbases.

My big worry is that if the talent is depleting we might end up like Colorado during their Hawkins era. The playmakers aren't signing up for the defense and our WR recruits are getting shorter with every signing class.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:58 pm

CatsbyAZ wrote:
qwertyus wrote:I have an even shorter leash than you people. I think he needs to go 4=5 in conference next year at least, or he should be out/on a very hot seat. He has the facilities. He has the money. He has the fan support. He has everything you need to succeed here. If he decides to neglect defense, keep Casteel, and go on another 6-6 year with a loss to ASU, that's his prerogative, but I wouldn't mind if he took the next South Carolina job that fell his way.

I think this is what we're cornered with, a 4-5 conference season being succesful for us. It's already been stated in this thread, but the offense will be outstanding, but the defense is a big worry. Basically more of the same. The state (or identity) of Arizona football is that of a 7 win program that if things fall right can reel off 10 wins, like last year. If that sounds like plateauing, for perspective that exactly what UCLA and ASU are going through as well, and with less content from their fanbases.

My big worry is that if the talent is depleting we might end up like Colorado during their Hawkins era. The playmakers aren't signing up for the defense and our WR recruits are getting shorter with every signing class.

What's your minimum expectation next year? What does RR need to do to keep his job?

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:43 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Which is why we need to fire casteel and hire real defensive coaches asap but I'm not holding my breath. And I count the 8 win seasons in 2012-2013 successes. Not disappointed about those at all.
Again who is RR going to hired if He fired Casteel??????????????? No one.
So you're saying that if casteel was fired that RR would leave the DC job open. Ok then

The question is who RR going to hired if he fire Casteel?
Second is RR going to be comfortable of hiring a traditional DC that run a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme or hired a DC that run flexible 4-2-5 look.
Last is who is willing to coach defense under RR and come to Arizona.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:54 pm

cordera89 wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Which is why we need to fire casteel and hire real defensive coaches asap but I'm not holding my breath. And I count the 8 win seasons in 2012-2013 successes. Not disappointed about those at all.
Again who is RR going to hired if He fired Casteel??????????????? No one.
So you're saying that if casteel was fired that RR would leave the DC job open. Ok then
The question is who RR going to hired if he fire Casteel?
Second is RR going to be comfortable of hiring a traditional DC that run a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme or hired a DC that run flexible 4-2-5 look.
Last is who is willing to coach defense under RR and come to Arizona.

The question that should be asked first is, are there better coaches than Casteel? The answer is yes. Then, can we pay enough for them? Not all of them, but some of them would be willing to coach for 500-700k/year. After that, it's all salesmanship.

CatsbyAZ · Post by **CatsbyAZ** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:11 pm

qwertyus wrote: What's your minimum expectation next year? What does RR need to do to keep his job?

A losing season next year puts RR on the hot seat. That's it. He'll keep his job as long as 2 of the next 3 seasons are winning years. 4 straight winning seasons (especially coming after that horrible 4-8 2011 year), plus the 10 win season last year has bought him a lot of time and goodwill.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:17 pm

CatsbyAZ wrote:
qwertyus wrote: What's your minimum expectation next year? What does RR need to do to keep his job?
A losing season next year puts RR on the hot seat. That's it. He'll keep his job as long as 2 of the next 3 seasons are winning years. 4 straight winning seasons (especially coming after that horrible 4-8 2011 year), plus the 10 win season last year has bought him a lot of time and goodwill.

I don't think he has as much time and goodwill as you do... let's hope he wi s big, sticks around, and all this discussion is moot.

TuiTouchdown · Post by **TuiTouchdown** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:46 am

I think if RR doesn't have a winning season, he'll be on the hot seat the following season. But I don't see that happening.

We should also remember that these 4 years have been the best four year stretch in Arizona HISTORY. Depending on how you look at it, it's either an impressive feat or a pathetic one. Either way, it shows that if nothing else, RR is doing something that hasn't been done here. And before I'm reminded, yes each year there were cupcakes in our OOC schedule, but these last 4 years were also a resurgence in the PAC where we saw our division as arguably the strongest in the nation from top to bottom. And last year, we won it. Also knocking off top-10 teams the last 3 years.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:12 am

TuiTouchdown wrote:I think if RR doesn't have a winning season, he'll be on the hot seat the following season. But I don't see that happening.

We should also remember that these 4 years have been the best four year stretch in Arizona HISTORY. Depending on how you look at it, it's either an impressive feat or a pathetic one. Either way, it shows that if nothing else, RR is doing something that hasn't been done here. And before I'm reminded, yes each year there were cupcakes in our OOC schedule, but these last 4 years were also a resurgence in the PAC where we saw our division as arguably the strongest in the nation from top to bottom. And last year, we won it. Also knocking off top-10 teams the last 3 years.

That proclamation is highly debatable, and I do not agree at all... I have disputed it with other posts in detail, and would call it (probably) the 4th best 4 year stretch of the PAC era. I credit it as being marginally better than Stoops' best 4 year run (and Stoops had a better P12 conference record overall).

If you want to give extra credit for: having an extra game each season; getting 3 automatic wins before conference play (because of scheduling); ignoring P12 Conference record; and putting bowl appearances on a pedestal because of an environment where more teams go than not... Be my guest. I think it unfairly discounts the success that Smith and Tomey had during their time in Tucson, and puts far too much weight on the current environmental advantages highlighted above - which artificially prop up results.

That is without even factoring in our record vs ASU at all... and I believe that matters, too.

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