3-3-5 is going to stay.

[cordera89]

I don't know what goes in RR head right now. But when you fired two defense assistant in Casteel and Kirl, Things seem to move in the right direction of improving the defense. Now I was reading an article of Gimino on what RR has idea of improving the defense. This part is just unacceptable:

Casteel ran a 3-3-5 "odd-stack" base defense, which was easy to criticize because it's different.

"People say, 'Well, the 3-3-5 didn't work.' Well, it has worked,'" Rodriguez said

Now a lot of people can say it didn't work in the four years, But in his eye it work in the four years?

RR is going to screw this once in life chance to improve the defense.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/3090 ... as-defense" target="_blank

[TuiTouchdown]

From the article:

"But nobody plays just one front. It's not like, magically, we'll play a 4-3 and we'll be better. No. I mean, when you get certain guys injured, I don't care what scheme you're in, you're going to struggle. Our coaches did a good job with their scheme and they put our players, a lot of times, in the right spot."

He's not wrong. If we were running a 3-4 last season, I doubt the results would have been different.

[Merkin]

"People say, 'Well, the Double Eagle Flex didn't work.' Well, it has worked,'" Rich Ellerson said

Gimmicky defenses tend to run their course.

Not sure when the 70th rated defense being the best RR has done at Arizona (with Stoops' recruits) has "worked".

Maybe in the Big East or Mountain West

[Harvey Specter]

Rodriguez will be interviewing candidates for both open positions in the next several days, including at the American Football Coaches Association, which runs Sunday through Wednesday in San Antonio. Other interviews will done by phone.

Rodriguez said he hopes to have official hires by Jan. 20.

"I'm not necessarily looking for a 'guru scheme guy' to come in," he said. "I'm looking for some people to help me create the environment we want defensively, but I'm going to give them the parameters that I want them to establish and use.

"I'm going to let them meet with the other staff, and they will come up with what I call the 'Arizona defense.' It may be similar to some things we've in the past, but it's probably going to be unique in some way or form."

Rodriguez, who rose through the coaching ranks by helping to form and popularize the modern spread offense, said he won't be calling defensive plays during games, but he will be much more hands-on in the defensive meeting rooms for the next several months.

I am dumbfounded. He sure sounds like a micro-manager with a gi-normous ego to me. You would think he would have learned by now that his insistence in meddling with the defense for his last 7 years coaching is the one constant. Aside from the fact that they all sucked.

So he's hiring the open assistant roles for the new DC? No respectable DC is going to come in and be RR's prison b*tch... so I now expect a puppet so Rich Rod can play Geppetto.

And if things don't work out? No worries... It'll all be on the puppet. "The plan I laid out was sound; the problem is they failed to execute it properly". Of course that is the problem, Rich... after all, 'the 3-3-5 has worked'. Not in a major conference in the last decade, but let's not split hairs.

Un-fucking-believable. If this goes down the way his comments suggest, and this move should not buy him any extra time. The performance of the D next year is on him. The D struggles and drags the team down with it, and his seat should be boiling.

[cordera89]

From the article:

"But nobody plays just one front. It's not like, magically, we'll play a 4-3 and we'll be better. No. I mean, when you get certain guys injured, I don't care what scheme you're in, you're going to struggle. Our coaches did a good job with their scheme and they put our players, a lot of times, in the right spot."

He's not wrong. If we were running a 3-4 last season, I doubt the results would have been different.

Even if he isn't wrong that change should be made. But he going to be wrong if chooses to keep 335 or hired someone to run it better.
If we did last season with 3-4, Their not doubt that any results if we did ran the 3-4 or 4-3 wouldn't made no difference. The only difference is that he need to make the right choices if really want to improve defense wise and recruiting.

[cordera89]

"People say, 'Well, the Double Eagle Flex didn't work.' Well, it has worked,'" Rich Ellerson said

Gimmicky defenses tend to run their course.

Not sure when the 70th rated defense being the best RR has done at Arizona (with Stoops' recruits) has "worked".

Maybe in the Big East or Mountain West

Naw, what piss me off is that he said that the critic can say it didn't work in which their right, but for him he going to say it worked in which he is wrong. What has worked in the four years since we ran the 3-3-5. Now look at San Diego state, they run 3-3-5 better than we do but look where their at in compared to us.

[OSUCat]

Un-fucking-believable. If this goes down the way his comments suggest, and this move should not buy him any extra time. The performance of the D next year is on him. The D struggles and drags the team down with it, and his seat should be boiling.

I for one am glade that RR is taking more responsibility with the defense. He should be more hands on in the meetings, and should have clear parameters that he was his coordinators to meet. The fact that he wasn't before is more disturbing to me then what he said and what you are freaking out about. Any DC that he brings in will have staff that he wants but its RR team and he should be interviewing both positions, just that the DC should be involved with the other opening.

You think RR is really just wanting to buy a couple more years before he is fired, and is not actually trying to improve the team? Your rant was overtop and a bit silly. No one ever gives the HC a break because of the coordinators.

Finally, what bought RR more time was winning the Pac-12 South, going 8-4 the first couple of seasons, and not having a losing record, it was not because he fired the DC. Man, some fans must have been suicidal during the Mack and Stoop years. I know I miss those substitution infractions after a time out......

[OSUCat]

"People say, 'Well, the Double Eagle Flex didn't work.' Well, it has worked,'" Rich Ellerson said

Gimmicky defenses tend to run their course.

Not sure when the 70th rated defense being the best RR has done at Arizona (with Stoops' recruits) has "worked".

Maybe in the Big East or Mountain West

Naw, what piss me off is that he said that the critic can say it didn't work in which their right, but for him he going to say it worked in which he is wrong. What has worked in the four years since we ran the 3-3-5. Now look at San Diego state, they run 3-3-5 better than we do but look where their at in compared to us.

I didn't think RR said that it work at Arizona specifically, but that as a scheme it works.

Curious though, what national ranking on defense would you consider to be the threshold for "working?"

[azpenguin]

I'll reserve judgement until we actually see a year or two of what happens on the field. RR knows that the defense is the number one priority right now and he's going to oversee things and not just wait and see what the new guy does. I'm OK with that. I'm guessing he knows more about football than anyone lurking on this board, so I'm OK with him being involved. It's his team and his responsibility and not all coaches go about things the same way.

[NYCat]

3-3-5 wouldn't be so awful if they sent pressure all the time from different directions. I hate to give credit to asu, but their defense blitzes so many times & its ridiculously effective.

Rushing 3 with undersized, slow line, and DBs playing 10+ yards off the ball doesn't work.

[azgreg]

ASSu finished dead last in FBS in pass defense.

[azcat49]

I am not going to criticize......yet. He is making changes and I Will Await The impact. It can't get any worse.....can it

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

ASSu finished dead last in FBS in pass defense.

Probably important to note that the secondary lacked depth and was decimated by injury. That said, their style of defense is intended to force turnovers, not shut down the other team. Though they stayed near the top of the league is sacks and TFl's, they came up short in turnover margin and it showed.

[azcat49]

So the 3-3-5 sucks if you don't force a bunch of turnovers like we did in our south championship year and ASSU didn't this year in there mythical NC year because you just can't stop teams conventially

[UAEebs86]

I am not going to criticize......yet. He is making changes and U Will Await The impact. It can't get any worse.....can it

Come on! You're supposed to get all wound up about candidates and schemes being floated by the media that have no basis in reality.

[cordera89]

"People say, 'Well, the Double Eagle Flex didn't work.' Well, it has worked,'" Rich Ellerson said

Gimmicky defenses tend to run their course.

Not sure when the 70th rated defense being the best RR has done at Arizona (with Stoops' recruits) has "worked".

Maybe in the Big East or Mountain West

Naw, what piss me off is that he said that the critic can say it didn't work in which their right, but for him he going to say it worked in which he is wrong. What has worked in the four years since we ran the 3-3-5. Now look at San Diego state, they run 3-3-5 better than we do but look where their at in compared to us.

I didn't think RR said that it work at Arizona specifically, but that as a scheme it works.

Curious though, what national ranking on defense would you consider to be the threshold for "working?"

I would rather have a consistent and a capable defense that doesn't get their asses handle to them on a weekly basic.

[tgrumpy2]

I find it amazing at how fast people can fly off the handle over an article. I read the same article and I didn't come away thinking he was still married to the 335. He acknowledged problems with the defense in terms of recruitment and coaching the general direction it was going. If I didn't know better I'd swear he had been reading this board. He stated he had a lot of ideas for the defense and it seemed to me he meant that in terms of attitudes and energy and direction. He didn't seem to be committing to any particular scheme to achieve that.
When the 335 does work, it works because it becomes unpredictable as to where pressure is coming from. The way Casteel ran it, it became very predictable. It looked to me like RR wants a fast dynamic unpredictable defense and he's not married to any particular scheme to achieve that. I'm kind of excited about the possibilities.
What if he does stay with the 335 and with a new infusion of coaching energy and a few new wrinkles and maybe a little infusion of JUCO talent the defense suddenly winds up ranked in the sixties or so? Is that going to be enough to appease you? I want to know, how much better to we have to be in one year to get people to stop the whine and cheese party?

[Harvey Specter]

I'll reserve judgement until we actually see a year or two of what happens on the field. RR knows that the defense is the number one priority right now and he's going to oversee things and not just wait and see what the new guy does. I'm OK with that. I'm guessing he knows more about football than anyone lurking on this board,[ so I'm OK with him being involved. [ It's his team and his responsibility and not all coaches go about things the same way.

I wouldn't be so sure about that after looking at what his defenses have done for the last 7 years. But there sure are plenty of excuses to absolve him of any accountability for them. Not from me.

Let's wait and see who he hires. If it's a low-profile guy who will agree to work in an environment where he's not calling the shots - I stand by my post above.

[Harvey Specter]

"People say, 'Well, the Double Eagle Flex didn't work.' Well, it has worked,'" Rich Ellerson said

Gimmicky defenses tend to run their course.

Not sure when the 70th rated defense being the best RR has done at Arizona (with Stoops' recruits) has "worked".

Maybe in the Big East or Mountain West

Naw, what piss me off is that he said that the critic can say it didn't work in which their right, but for him he going to say it worked in which he is wrong. What has worked in the four years since we ran the 3-3-5. Now look at San Diego state, they run 3-3-5 better than we do but look where their at in compared to us.

I didn't think RR said that it work at Arizona specifically, but that as a scheme it works.

Curious though, what national ranking on defense would you consider to be the threshold for "working?"

Well I am pretty sure he wasn't talking about Michigan...

[Harvey Specter]

Un-fucking-believable. If this goes down the way his comments suggest, and this move should not buy him any extra time. The performance of the D next year is on him. The D struggles and drags the team down with it, and his seat should be boiling.

I for one am glade that RR is taking more responsibility with the defense. He should be more hands on in the meetings, and should have clear parameters that he was his coordinators to meet. The fact that he wasn't before is more disturbing to me then what he said and what you are freaking out about. Any DC that he brings in will have staff that he wants but its RR team and he should be interviewing both positions, just that the DC should be involved with the other opening.

You think RR is really just wanting to buy a couple more years before he is fired, and is not actually trying to improve the team? Your rant was overtop and a bit silly. No one ever gives the HC a break because of the coordinators.

Finally, what bought RR more time was winning the Pac-12 South, going 8-4 the first couple of seasons, and not having a losing record, it was not because he fired the DC. Man, some fans must have been suicidal during the Mack and Stoop years. I know I miss those substitution infractions after a time out......

I am sure he is trying to improve the team... I do not doubt that one bit.

I also think his ego and stubbornness gets in the way of his judgment. He will not give up on the 3-3-5 (and refuses to acknowledge 7 years of data in BCS conf play)... and he is a micro-manager. He should look in the mirror and accept that he and his 3-3-5 scheme are the 2 constants over 2 programs, 3 coordinators, and 7 years. 7 DOGSHIT years on D.

Time to manage the leaders beneath him the way he expects to be managed. Pick a capable person, and let them have control to do their job. Because he can't.

And I don't believe he was not involved with the D and gave Casteel free reign. IIRC, he hired all his defensive assistants before Casteel was named. That's not a guy who his planning on deferring unconditionally to his coordinator.

Nothing new.

[CalStateTempe]

RR want to improve his stock to be competitive for a desirable job back east.

This is not the way to improve stock. See HS's comments above.

[Newportcat]

3-3-5 wouldn't be so awful if they sent pressure all the time from different directions. I hate to give credit to asu, but their defense blitzes so many times & its ridiculously effective.

Rushing 3 with undersized, slow line, and DBs playing 10+ yards off the ball doesn't work.

ASU's defense was awful this year.

[BearDown89]

Un-fucking-believable. If this goes down the way his comments suggest, and this move should not buy him any extra time. The performance of the D next year is on him. The D struggles and drags the team down with it, and his seat should be boiling.

I for one am glade that RR is taking more responsibility with the defense. He should be more hands on in the meetings, and should have clear parameters that he was his coordinators to meet. The fact that he wasn't before is more disturbing to me then what he said and what you are freaking out about. Any DC that he brings in will have staff that he wants but its RR team and he should be interviewing both positions, just that the DC should be involved with the other opening.

You think RR is really just wanting to buy a couple more years before he is fired, and is not actually trying to improve the team? Your rant was overtop and a bit silly. No one ever gives the HC a break because of the coordinators.

Finally, what bought RR more time was winning the Pac-12 South, going 8-4 the first couple of seasons, and not having a losing record, it was not because he fired the DC. Man, some fans must have been suicidal during the Mack and Stoop years. I know I miss those substitution infractions after a time out......

Yeah. I don't ever really disagree with anything you post Harvey, but take a deep breath. Step back from the ledge my friend. I took it as RR taking some ownership of D too. Trust me though, I don't want to see any more bs on D either. He says "Arizona Defense". Really? If nothing else, Arizona at least had an era of good defense once upon a time. He'd go a long way with the fan base if he'd at least try to respect and reach for some of that.

[3goggles]

I find it amazing at how fast people can fly off the handle over an article. I read the same article and I didn't come away thinking he was still married to the 335. He acknowledged problems with the defense in terms of recruitment and coaching the general direction it was going. If I didn't know better I'd swear he had been reading this board. He stated he had a lot of ideas for the defense and it seemed to me he meant that in terms of attitudes and energy and direction. He didn't seem to be committing to any particular scheme to achieve that.
When the 335 does work, it works because it becomes unpredictable as to where pressure is coming from. The way Casteel ran it, it became very predictable. It looked to me like RR wants a fast dynamic unpredictable defense and he's not married to any particular scheme to achieve that. I'm kind of excited about the possibilities.
What if he does stay with the 335 and with a new infusion of coaching energy and a few new wrinkles and maybe a little infusion of JUCO talent the defense suddenly winds up ranked in the sixties or so? Is that going to be enough to appease you? I want to know, how much better to we have to be in one year to get people to stop the whine and cheese party?

What I took away from article was recruiting is going to be taken more seriously on the defense end of the ball! Clearly he was taking shot at Casteel with the recruiting comments

[Harvey Specter]

Un-fucking-believable. If this goes down the way his comments suggest, and this move should not buy him any extra time. The performance of the D next year is on him. The D struggles and drags the team down with it, and his seat should be boiling.

I for one am glade that RR is taking more responsibility with the defense. He should be more hands on in the meetings, and should have clear parameters that he was his coordinators to meet. The fact that he wasn't before is more disturbing to me then what he said and what you are freaking out about. Any DC that he brings in will have staff that he wants but its RR team and he should be interviewing both positions, just that the DC should be involved with the other opening.

You think RR is really just wanting to buy a couple more years before he is fired, and is not actually trying to improve the team? Your rant was overtop and a bit silly. No one ever gives the HC a break because of the coordinators.

Finally, what bought RR more time was winning the Pac-12 South, going 8-4 the first couple of seasons, and not having a losing record, it was not because he fired the DC. Man, some fans must have been suicidal during the Mack and Stoop years. I know I miss those substitution infractions after a time out......

Yeah. I don't ever really disagree with anything you post Harvey, but take a deep breath. Step back from the ledge my friend. I took it as RR taking some ownership of D too. Trust me though, I don't want to see any more bs on D either. He says "Arizona Defense". Really? If nothing else, Arizona at least had an era of good defense once upon a time. He'd go a long way with the fan base if he'd at least try to respect and reach for some of that.

Fair point... the only thing I will say is my rant was a hypothetical, precluded by the disclaimer "If this goes down the way his comments suggest". Premature yes... if my speculation turns out to be wrong I will own it. Unfortunately the drama with RR's pursuit of South Carolina went down exactly as I feared it might 2-3 weeks earlier - except I thought they would pony up enough money to give him some kind of pay raise.

As for his south championship... It bought him a lot of goodwill and fan support in lieu of an overall losing record in conference and a very poor encore campaign. And the fans gave more of a pass for the injury problems on D than Casteel got. Beyond that, it did not buy him any more time (in my mind) than Stoops next to last season bough him (which was a conference runner-up finish and the equivalent of a division championship, had divisions existed).

There is just an awful lot of 'conventional wisdom' and 'benefits of the doubt' that many on this forum have given (and continue to give) RR that I don't buy into, based on evidence we've seen since.

1. RR's failure at Michigan was not his fault. Had he be been given free reign to get the assistants he wanted to run is scheme, he would have been successful.(Apparently not)
2. He made some mistakes there, but he learned from them. (I am having my doubts)
3. He's an engaging guy (that's true)... And a terrific recruiter (from where I sit, that's not).
4. He learned that the grass isn't always greener from his time at UM, and won't want to make a move into a pressure cooker like that again. (I have serious doubts about that)
5. He was really sincere when he said that he wanted to retire here. (I don't think we need to discuss this)

I think he is a brilliant offensive mind that is blessed with a very charismatic personality.

Beyond that, I am seriously questioning whether or not he learned anything from previous mistakes, and it seems it is because he did not think he needed to. I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt at every turn, and I don't believe we are so much luckier to have him than he is to be here - although he (and many of our fans) do... Most of the country doesn't.

I hope we get an experienced big-time DC that is going to come in here and have free reign to shake things up without having someone looking over his shoulder. Let RR worry about the offense - his acumen on that side of the ball is not in doubt.

That happens and I will gladly eat my serving of crow. I hope I do.

[azcat49]

B89 said something I have been wondering for a long while. Does RR respect our heritage that is AZ football?

Defense has defined us. If there is one frustration, it's not with losing, it's with giving up 50+ points or giving up 40+ in the first half.

I am excited because he has made a change. At least he is trying something new.

[BearDown89]

Un-fucking-believable. If this goes down the way his comments suggest, and this move should not buy him any extra time. The performance of the D next year is on him. The D struggles and drags the team down with it, and his seat should be boiling.

I for one am glade that RR is taking more responsibility with the defense. He should be more hands on in the meetings, and should have clear parameters that he was his coordinators to meet. The fact that he wasn't before is more disturbing to me then what he said and what you are freaking out about. Any DC that he brings in will have staff that he wants but its RR team and he should be interviewing both positions, just that the DC should be involved with the other opening.

You think RR is really just wanting to buy a couple more years before he is fired, and is not actually trying to improve the team? Your rant was overtop and a bit silly. No one ever gives the HC a break because of the coordinators.

Finally, what bought RR more time was winning the Pac-12 South, going 8-4 the first couple of seasons, and not having a losing record, it was not because he fired the DC. Man, some fans must have been suicidal during the Mack and Stoop years. I know I miss those substitution infractions after a time out......

Yeah. I don't ever really disagree with anything you post Harvey, but take a deep breath. Step back from the ledge my friend. I took it as RR taking some ownership of D too. Trust me though, I don't want to see any more bs on D either. He says "Arizona Defense". Really? If nothing else, Arizona at least had an era of good defense once upon a time. He'd go a long way with the fan base if he'd at least try to respect and reach for some of that.

Fair point... the only thing I will say is my rant was a hypothetical, precluded by the disclaimer "If this goes down the way his comments suggest". Premature yes... if my speculation turns out to be wrong I will own it. Unfortunately the drama with RR's pursuit of South Carolina went down exactly as I feared it might 2-3 weeks earlier - except I thought they would pony up enough money to give him some kind of pay raise.

As for his south championship... It bought him a lot of goodwill and fan support in lieu of an overall losing record in conference and a very poor encore campaign. And the fans gave more of a pass for the injury problems on D than Casteel got. Beyond that, it did not buy him any more time (in my mind) than Stoops next to last season bough him (which was a conference runner-up finish and the equivalent of a division championship, had divisions existed).

There is just an awful lot of 'conventional wisdom' and 'benefits of the doubt' that many on this forum have given (and continue to give) RR that I don't buy into, based on evidence we've seen since.

1. RR's failure at Michigan was not his fault. Had he be been given free reign to get the assistants he wanted to run is scheme, he would have been successful.(Apparently not)
2. He made some mistakes there, but he learned from them. (I am having my doubts)
3. He's an engaging guy (that's true)... And a terrific recruiter (from where I sit, that's not).
4. He learned that the grass isn't always greener from his time at UM, and won't want to make a move into a pressure cooker like that again. (I have serious doubts about that)
5. He was really sincere when he said that he wanted to retire here. (I don't think we need to discuss this)

I think he is a brilliant offensive mind that is blessed with a very charismatic personality.

Beyond that, I am seriously questioning whether or not he learned anything from previous mistakes, and it seems it is because he did not think he needed to. I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt at every turn, and I don't believe we are so much luckier to have him than he is to be here - although he (and many of our fans) do... Most of the country doesn't.

I hope we get an experienced big-time DC that is going to come in here and have free reign to shake things up without having someone looking over his shoulder. Let RR worry about the offense - his acumen on that side of the ball is not in doubt.

That happens and I will gladly eat my serving of crow. I hope I do.

Like I said Harvey, you don't raise much, if any, argument from me. Spot on.

[Puerco]

My main worry about Gimino's article is that RR is interviewing position coaches before the DC hire is made. Terrible, terrible idea and makes me worry a lot about the future. RR has never, ever showed he was a defensive wizard, so why not hire one and let him build it properly. RR should be involved from an adminstrative and recruiting standpoint, but that's about it.

[azgreg]

My main worry about Gimino's article is that RR is interviewing position coaches before the DC hire is made. Terrible, terrible idea and makes me worry a lot about the future. RR has never, ever showed he was a defensive wizard, so why not hire one and let him build it properly. RR should be involved from an adminstrative and recruiting standpoint, but that's about it.

Unless he already has his guy and he's just waiting for the mandatory job posting period to expire.

[azpenguin]

My main worry about Gimino's article is that RR is interviewing position coaches before the DC hire is made. Terrible, terrible idea and makes me worry a lot about the future. RR has never, ever showed he was a defensive wizard, so why not hire one and let him build it properly. RR should be involved from an adminstrative and recruiting standpoint, but that's about it.

Spring camp starts pretty damn soon and whoever is hired as a position coach is someone RR has to be on board with. Things are moving fast. They need to have people in place ASAP to close out recruiting and start coaching. Again, I'll reserve judgement until we've seen game results.

[Chicat]

Every head coach is going to hire position coaches, no matter which side of the ball is his specialty. RR is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense.

[Puerco]

Unless he already has his guy and he's just waiting for the mandatory job posting period to expire.

Ya think? With all the talk about interviewing next week? That'd be a brilliant smokescreen if true.

Spring camp starts pretty damn soon and whoever is hired as a position coach is someone RR has to be on board with. Things are moving fast. They need to have people in place ASAP to close out recruiting and start coaching. Again, I'll reserve judgement until we've seen game results.

Good point. I'm not judging anything just yet, but I'm sure as hell uncomfortable. I agree with others that it's a good sign to see RR take an active interest in the defense, but I'd rather not have it be the kind of interest that interferes with people better able than him to build a defense.

[Puerco]

Every head coach is going to hire position coaches, no matter which side of the ball is his specialty. RR is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense.

That's like saying every CEO hires his sales people.

[Chicat]

Every head coach is going to hire position coaches, no matter which side of the ball is his specialty. RR is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense.

That's like saying every CEO hires his sales people.

No it's not. If we're comparing college sports to business, the AD would be the CEO and the head coach would be the EVP of Sales. And I would argue that the assistant coaches are more like director level.

Meanwhile, at my company, our CEO does get involved in the hiring process for our sales staff. And we are a very large company. Shoot, he even goes on sales calls with us.

[Puerco]

Nice CEO.

I get what your saying. My boss will be interested in who I hire, or more particularly what the target characteristics of the hire should be, but I haven't often had a boss who would do the hiring for me. I don't think I'd much appreciate that. After all, if I'm to be held accountable for the performance of my team, then I should have the authority to craft the team whenever there is an opportunity to do so.

[Chicat]

Nice CEO.

I get what your saying. My boss will be interested in who I hire, or more particularly what the target characteristics of the hire should be, but I haven't often had a boss who would do the hiring for me. I don't think I'd much appreciate that. After all, if I'm to be held accountable for the performance of my team, then I should have the authority to craft the team whenever there is an opportunity to do so.

And I get what you're saying. But if you're the CEO of a company and all of a sudden 30% of your sales staff is gone along with the sales manager that would oversee them, would you allow those accounts to go unserviced while you try to find someone to fill the manager role or would you be looking for both at the same time in order to hit the ground running as quickly as possible?

Edit: Which reminds me, we just had an account exec quit yesterday. I should look into stealing her accounts....

[chiefzona]

Normal HCs hire a DC and let him hire his people. Especially an offensive-minded HC. RR does not know defense. I think that's been proven. So, if he is going to meddle then he is going to get a DC that isn't big time or doesn't care and that's not good IMO. He already has position hires and the new DC will be micromanaged. So, I'm not even excited or have any sense of wonder in who he hires. It really won't matter IMO. I'm just wondering who the next HC will be.

[Harvey Specter]

Every head coach is going to hire position coaches, no matter which side of the ball is his specialty. RR is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense.

That's like saying every CEO hires his sales people.

No it's not. If we're comparing college sports to business, the AD would be the CEO and the head coach would be the EVP of Sales. And I would argue that the assistant coaches are more like director level.

Meanwhile, at my company, our CEO does get involved in the hiring process for our sales staff. And we are a very large company. Shoot, he even goes on sales calls with us.

For a large company, having a CEO get involved with hiring the sales staff is extremely unusual. If it's a distribution company, or you have a small sales force, then it might make sense. If not, then it would appear he does not like to delegate responsibilities to the people beneath him - unless he allows others to make the decision and simply makes himself available to convince targeted candidates of the commitment to the sales organization from the very top.

Whatever the case, he must not sleep. Either that, or he delegates other responsibilities much more freely than he does the hiring of the sales staff.

Admittedly, the Football team is a very small company. Less than 100 (50?) employees and $30MM in revenues. It is certainly normal for the CEO to be involved in the hiring process, and even to have input/ veto power. But to hire his subordinates' direct reports?

I don't know an experienced leader who would take a director or VP level job where his boss made hiring decisions for him; it reeks of micro-management to me. And I have refused bigger jobs in the past because the roles would not give me the freedom to make may own calls. If you are a VP or director whose job is to simply execute the vision of your boss, then you have to believe unconditionally in your boss's judgment. If the job you are filling has been a revolving door of guys who failed in the role, then I would stay away. Because if the vision fails, you damn sure know who is taking the fall. If I am going to fail, I want it to be because of my failures, and not my boss's.

We have to see how this goes down; as I said above, my speculation could be wrong. He could be assembling and screening candidates so the table is set when the DC is named to fill out his staff and hit the ground running. I may have been reading too much into his comments; I hope so.

[Fishclamps]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

[chiefzona]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

I think some people, myself included, are taking the coach for exactly what he said. I trust that's exactly what he's gonna do and after hearing from a couple of people about last season, I think that he will do just what he says.

[Chicat]

Every head coach is going to hire position coaches, no matter which side of the ball is his specialty. RR is responsible for the entire team, not just the offense.

That's like saying every CEO hires his sales people.

No it's not. If we're comparing college sports to business, the AD would be the CEO and the head coach would be the EVP of Sales. And I would argue that the assistant coaches are more like director level.

Meanwhile, at my company, our CEO does get involved in the hiring process for our sales staff. And we are a very large company. Shoot, he even goes on sales calls with us.

For a large company, having a CEO get involved with hiring the sales staff is extremely unusual. If it's a distribution company, or you have a small sales force, then it might make sense. If not, then it would appear he does not like to delegate responsibilities to the people beneath him - unless he allows others to make the decision and simply makes himself available to convince targeted candidates of the commitment to the sales organization from the very top.

Whatever the case, he must not sleep. Either that, or he delegates other responsibilities much more freely than he does the hiring of the sales staff.

He's fine with delegating responsibilities. He is just a salesman, first and foremost (we have a co-CEO who handles Operations) and is highly involved in the sales team and the sales process. And yeah, I don't think he sleeps.

Sorry to hijack the thread with business talk. Back to Chief telling us all how he'd run a program if only someone would recognize his genius....

[Fishclamps]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

I think some people, myself included, are taking the coach for exactly what he said. I trust that's exactly what he's gonna do and after hearing from a couple of people about last season, I think that he will do just what he says.

Well, we shall see. I don't see the point of flying off the handle preemptively. If hes does everything you guys are so worried of, then by all means, but as of now its all just chicken little.

[chiefzona]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

I think some people, myself included, are taking the coach for exactly what he said. I trust that's exactly what he's gonna do and after hearing from a couple of people about last season, I think that he will do just what he says.

Well, we shall see. I don't see the point of flying off the handle preemptively. If hes does everything you guys are so worried of, then by all means, but as of now its all just chicken little.

I have been off the handle for 4 years watching Casteel and his defense. I'm frankly tired of it and the 3-3-5. RR says his new "Arizona" defense is going to basically be a 3-3-5 Odd Stack hybrid. With this late move and an early spring, a new DC will not have time to implement squat until Fall Camp. So, he'll probably have to go off what RR is suggesting so that the players don't have to pick up a new scheme. To me, as of right now, it's just polishing a turd (Correct spelling for ChiCat).

[Chicat]

No need to capitalize the second "c" Chief.

[Harvey Specter]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

And on the other side of the spectrum.

Repeat after me: "The coach is always right. Any failures or shortcomings in the organization are not his fault; ever. If he did make some mistakes in the past, he has undoubtedly learned from them. He realizes what a great situation he is in at Arizona, and after trying life on the other side - he appreciates where he is and is not going to give up a good thing again."

I admitted that it was a knee jerk reaction, and a hypothetical. But one that was based off of direct quotes he made on how he plans to handle this process/ transition, and what he is looking to do.

[chiefzona]

No need to capitalize the second "c" Chief.

Thanks Chi. I'll try to clean up the grammatical errors.

[Chicat]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

And on the other side of the spectrum.

Repeat after me: "The coach is always right. Any failures or shortcomings in the organization are not his fault; ever. If he did make some mistakes in the past, he has undoubtedly learned from them. He realizes what a great situation he is in at Arizona, and after trying life on the other side - he appreciates where he is and is not going to give up a good thing again."

I admitted that it was a knee jerk reaction, and a hypothetical. But one that was based off of direct quotes he made on how he plans to handle this process/ transition, and what he is looking to do.

Wouldn't the other side of the spectrum from jumping to conclusions be just to wait for the results?

I've criticized RR plenty . . . but I usually try to wait until after things have actually happened on the field. For instance, our defense has been total shit. The DC and some staff on that side of the ball are now gone. If the defense continues to be shit, I'll definitely criticize Rich Rod. That would seem to be the mentality that is on the other side of the spectrum from criticizing him before anyone or anything is even in place, wouldn't it?

[Fishclamps]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

And on the other side of the spectrum.

Repeat after me: "The coach is always right. Any failures or shortcomings in the organization are not his fault; ever. If he did make some mistakes in the past, he has undoubtedly learned from them. He realizes what a great situation he is in at Arizona, and after trying life on the other side - he appreciates where he is and is not going to give up a good thing again."

I admitted that it was a knee jerk reaction, and a hypothetical. But one that was based off of direct quotes he made on how he plans to handle this process/ transition, and what he is looking to do.

Wouldn't the other side of the spectrum from jumping to conclusions be just to wait for the results?

I've criticized RR plenty . . . but I usually try to wait until after things have actually happened on the field. For instance, our defense has been total shit. The DC and some staff on that side of the ball are now gone. If the defense continues to be shit, I'll definitely criticize Rich Rod. That would seem to be the mentality that is on the other side of the spectrum from criticizing him before anyone or anything is even in place, wouldn't it?

Exactly. If he keeps the 3-3-5 and forces it onto a bunch of assistants, by all means flip your fuckin shit, I'll be right there with you.

As of right now, nothing has happened, so while you can speculate like we have been about what he could run and who he could bring in, people are automatically like FUCK THIS GUY THIS ARTICLE SAID HE WAS GONNA RUN IT AGAIN, when it really doesn't.

This is just a wait and see situation.

[azpenguin]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

And on the other side of the spectrum.

Repeat after me: "The coach is always right. Any failures or shortcomings in the organization are not his fault; ever. If he did make some mistakes in the past, he has undoubtedly learned from them. He realizes what a great situation he is in at Arizona, and after trying life on the other side - he appreciates where he is and is not going to give up a good thing again."

I admitted that it was a knee jerk reaction, and a hypothetical. But one that was based off of direct quotes he made on how he plans to handle this process/ transition, and what he is looking to do.

That's the thing about a spectrum though - there may be extremes like the ones you posit, but there's also a whole lot in the middle and people don't necessarily (or even typically) fall to an extreme.

[Harvey Specter]

Gonna have to use this gem again...

And on the other side of the spectrum.

Repeat after me: "The coach is always right. Any failures or shortcomings in the organization are not his fault; ever. If he did make some mistakes in the past, he has undoubtedly learned from them. He realizes what a great situation he is in at Arizona, and after trying life on the other side - he appreciates where he is and is not going to give up a good thing again."

I admitted that it was a knee jerk reaction, and a hypothetical. But one that was based off of direct quotes he made on how he plans to handle this process/ transition, and what he is looking to do.

Wouldn't the other side of the spectrum from jumping to conclusions be just to wait for the results?

I've criticized RR plenty . . . but I usually try to wait until after things have actually happened on the field. For instance, our defense has been total shit. The DC and some staff on that side of the ball are now gone. If the defense continues to be shit, I'll definitely criticize Rich Rod. That would seem to be the mentality that is on the other side of the spectrum from criticizing him before anyone or anything is even in place, wouldn't it?

You are absolutely right, Chi. Speculation is admittedly a waste of time, but it is largely what we do on message boards. Sometimes we are right, and sometimes we are wrong. The real judgement on whatever move he makes will have to be reserved for some point in the future, when we have a chance to see the performance that results from the changes in staff.

I am simply expressing my opinion on the approach he is taking, based on information that has been released. I think that IF he takes the approach that Gimino's article suggested he is, it is a big mistake - and 'more of the same' with respect to (what I view as) past mistakes that have led to serious issues at his last 2 coaching stops.

As for 'the other side'... I do not view your stance as being included in that group; you have a logical and balanced assessment of the situation: in short, you are not a slurper. If RR hires a low-profile guy to run the 3-3-5, and continues to make hiring decisions for the defensive position coaches, then my speculative view is that he is making the same mistakes of a) being devoted to a questionable scheme and b) micro-managing a side of the ball that he is not adept in.

If such a hire is made and proves to be successful in improving defensive performance and contributes to a program that (more often than not) has a winning conference record and beats ASU at least as much as he loses to them.... Then I will be wrong. And call me out on that if I do not readily admit it.

If that hire is made and the current defensive woes continue, 'the other side', as I view it, will continue with a laundry list of excuses for why it is not his fault.

As for blind devotion to coaches, I am not typically that kind of person - except in those (rare) cases where I think it is deserved and has been earned. Miller has my blind faith; RR does not.