Last second chances

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:43 pm

I'll start by saying this team has a lot of fight. They grind to stay in games and have had 3 great chances to win on the road and lost all of them at the last second.

Now, I do have a criticism. Game York is best playing OFF THE BALL. Meaning, set screens for him. Stop and pop. He should not be the one handling the ball on the inbounds and helping the play develop. Obviously we miss TJ for this. But I said it after UCLA and USC and it was the same tonight. Gabe doesn't have the handles to be in these situations. I understand our other guards aren't great at it either, but maybe let Kadeem Allen run the play, set a screen for Gabe and have him shoot. Just don't like York having to dribble all over the place on the last possession.

Bear Down. Not a terrible loss, but another heartbreaking one. We could've won all 3 conference losses. Looks like every road trip will be a grind. Need to iron out these last second possessions though.

carolinacat · Post by **carolinacat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:47 pm

Why not just run your offense and feed the post? Our bigs have decent moves inside. If Cal doubles, then you get the open look for York (or someone else) that you want. I think York might be afraid to give up the ball and then has trouble creating.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:47 pm

No idea why York was called again, just like USC when he proved he can't dribble in pressure situations.

Hero ball.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:49 pm

someone chime in here, whens the last time we had a chance to win and actually hit a shot. Derrick Williams? There has to be one more recent and im drawing a blank.

I mean, thats Gabes shot. Who else here is going to take it unless we run a normal offense and feed it to Ristic? And that is never gonna happen sadly. This is a problem until Trier comes back and gets back into form and even then, we are used to coming up empty in these game ending possessions this century, its the norm to get our hopes up and end up throwing a remote

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:51 pm

I would have been fine with Kadeem driving or just letting Anderson or Ristic work in the post. Either way we haven't had a killer in the clutch in awhile

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:52 pm

Merkin wrote:No idea why York was called again, just like USC when he proved he can't dribble in pressure situations.

Hero ball.

sucks to see this happen again. we're supposed to learn from our losses.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:53 pm

dirtbags wrote:
Merkin wrote:No idea why York was called again, just like USC when he proved he can't dribble in pressure situations.

Hero ball.
sucks to see this happen again. we're supposed to learn from our losses.

Do what we do

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:05 pm

rgdeuce wrote:someone chime in here, whens the last time we had a chance to win and actually hit a shot. Derrick Williams? There has to be one more recent and im drawing a blank.

I think we're like 0 for our last 8 conference games decided in the last possession. We either win fairly comfortably or we blow it at the end. It sucks.

rgdeuce wrote:I mean, thats Gabes shot. Who else here is going to take it unless we run a normal offense and feed it to Ristic? And that is never gonna happen sadly. This is a problem until Trier comes back and gets back into form and even then, we are used to coming up empty in these game ending possessions this century, its the norm to get our hopes up and end up throwing a remote

Deuce wasn't even in the game. I have no idea why not. I wanted the ball to go inside to him but when I saw him on the bench I knew it was going to be Gabe off the dribble and we would lose. I hate being right.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:07 pm

The only reasonable alternative we have on last second shots is Kadeem. PJC hasn't had much luck handling the ball under pressure (especially if someone gets physical with him) and the refs were in full blown Swallow the Whistle mode at the end. Even if PJC doesn't cough up the ball he has Zero chance attacking the basket with his size.

At this point its either Kadeem or Gabe ........and with Gabe being the senior and the better shot thats who Miller is putting his chips on.

AZCatGirl · Post by **AZCatGirl** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:11 pm

Relying on Gabe every single time is idiotic. With all the upperclassman we have someone else needs to step up.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:13 pm

AZCatGirl wrote:Relying on Gabe every single time is idiotic. With all the upperclassman we have someone else needs to step up.

Sorry but the other upper-class men (Tolly, Tarc (who was out), and Anderson) are NOT ball handlers. Its either Gabe or Kadeem at this point.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:20 pm

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:22 pm

One issue I have ALWAYS had with Arizona BB, and that applied to Lute as well as Miller, is that we wait WAY too long to initiate the play in these situations IMO.

I do not watch enough basketball to know if that is consistent strategy across the board, but we seem to always waste a fair amount of time dribbling the air out of the ball at the top of the key.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:24 pm

Not winning these close games is getting frustrating. I know we're shorthanded, but we just keep dropping them. F*** it, I'm going to bed.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:25 pm

Wait, what the hell is Tolly doing backing up under the basket. Thats maddening. If he fills open space thats a putback dunk

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Main Event wrote:

I am surprised he did not make a derogatory comment about Rabb staying close to Mommy.

No one loves Miller more than I do... but he deserves as much blame for that finish as anyone. Then again, I don't make a living off always pumping the coaches, and I am not part of the anti York brigade.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:30 pm

Of course, if we don't have the worst opening four minutes to a second half in the Miller era tonight, this isn't a thread and we're knocking on the door of the conference lead.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:31 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Wait, what the hell is Tolly doing backing up under the basket. Thats maddening. If he fills open space thats a putback dunk

No way dude. What replay were you watching??? If Tolly doesn't "do his backing up under the basket thing" York would have run right into him. He did the only thing he could have in that situation, back away hoping your defender will follow you.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:34 pm

rgdeuce wrote:someone chime in here, whens the last time we had a chance to win and actually hit a shot. Derrick Williams? There has to be one more recent and im drawing a blank.

I mean, thats Gabes shot. Who else here is going to take it unless we run a normal offense and feed it to Ristic? And that is never gonna happen sadly. This is a problem until Trier comes back and gets back into form and even then, we are used to coming up empty in these game ending possessions this century, its the norm to get our hopes up and end up throwing a remote

Mark Lyons v. Florida December 2012.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:36 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:I am surprised he did not make a derogatory comment about Rabb staying close to Mommy.

No one loves Miller more than I do... but he deserves as much blame for that finish as anyone. Then again, I don't make a living off always pumping the coaches, and I am not part of the anti York brigade.

???

Ok...

Don't ever pass up a shot Harv.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:42 pm

dcZONAfan wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Wait, what the hell is Tolly doing backing up under the basket. Thats maddening. If he fills open space thats a putback dunk
No way dude. What replay were you watching??? If Tolly doesn't "do his backing up under the basket thing" York would have run right into him. He did the only thing he could have in that situation, back away hoping your defender will follow you.

Pause at the 5 second mark dude. Gabes a foot outside the key and tolly is pretty much in the middle of the restricted area. Now unpause. He backs up even further, ducks under the rim and completely takes himself out of any chance for a rebound. His position also leaves open space for Brown to back up and get his hand on a ball to keep Anderson from grabbing that and winning the game. We should have had two red jerseys w their hands on that ball, there was all kinds of space w the three cal defenders jumping out at gabe

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:48 pm

Chicat wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:I am surprised he did not make a derogatory comment about Rabb staying close to Mommy.

No one loves Miller more than I do... but he deserves as much blame for that finish as anyone. Then again, I don't make a living off always pumping the coaches, and I am not part of the anti York brigade.
???

Ok...

Don't ever pass up a shot Harv.

You mean like Scheer does? You keep Scheer's back, I'll keep York's.

If I wanted to read what Scheer had to say, I'd visit his site. I don't. Sorry if that offends you.

I suspect that play was made the way it was drawn up. Shocking that York, being the playmaker that he is, did not see Allen in the left baseline corner while we was frantically driving down the right side of the lane with time running out. Give me a break.

We lost. It happens - no team is perfect. I'll always love Miller, and I'll alkways like York.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:21 pm

woulda been nice to have a timeout to call a play, but miller burns through timeouts like Trump goes through wives so there you go

why isnt a ph setting up gabe or Kadeem fro the gw shot??

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:51 pm

Harvey Specter wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Harvey Specter wrote:I am surprised he did not make a derogatory comment about Rabb staying close to Mommy.

No one loves Miller more than I do... but he deserves as much blame for that finish as anyone. Then again, I don't make a living off always pumping the coaches, and I am not part of the anti York brigade.
???

Ok...

Don't ever pass up a shot Harv.
You mean like Scheer does? You keep Scheer's back, I'll keep York's.

If I wanted to read what Scheer had to say, I'd visit his site. I don't. Sorry if that offends you.

I suspect that play was made the way it was drawn up. Shocking that York, being the playmaker that he is, did not see Allen in the left baseline corner while we was frantically driving down the right side of the lane with time running out. Give me a break.

We lost. It happens - no team is perfect. I'll always love Miller, and I'll alkways like York.

How do you know Scheer wasn't criticizing the way the play was drawn up?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:56 pm

A lot of blame to go around in general. Arizona either wins big or loses in heartbreaking fashion, very rarely is it in between. When was the last time we've won a game when we were down and had the last real possession? The Florida home game?

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:15 am

Not a last possession win, but we were down 4 or 5 at Utah last year with a minute left like tonight and won. We lost on the last possession last night, but let's not forget we were down 5 with 75 seconds left. I'm still upset we lost, because we should have executed better on the final possession. Just trying to add one example to the questions. Like others have said, we find a way to make something happen when we don't deserve it--Michigan 2 years ago, Florida game, Gonzaga this year, although not as dramatic of a turnaround, and on a smaller scale, games like last night where we make a couple plays to go from a very low percentage outcome (down 5 minute left) to a high percentage outcome (last possession). But we sure have trouble closing the deal.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:41 am

Longhorned wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:someone chime in here, whens the last time we had a chance to win and actually hit a shot. Derrick Williams? There has to be one more recent and im drawing a blank.

I mean, thats Gabes shot. Who else here is going to take it unless we run a normal offense and feed it to Ristic? And that is never gonna happen sadly. This is a problem until Trier comes back and gets back into form and even then, we are used to coming up empty in these game ending possessions this century, its the norm to get our hopes up and end up throwing a remote
Mark Lyons v. Florida December 2012.

good call. i was thinking momo jones in that crazy triple-overtime game vs. cal, or maybe his buzzer beater vs. 'furd(?). and nic wise went out hero style taking it all the way to the hole for the OT win in his last game at mckale vs. ucla. i don't remember what years those were, but it's certainly been a while.

best one though, was miles simon's miracle shot vs. cincinnati because of how sour bob huggins was about it afterward. it was also Lute's 500th win.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:13 am

You know, watching this again, it's really just frustrating that Gabe couldn't get it to KA (with a lob) or MT (would've been a harder pass with those three guys clogging the lane). I'm pretty sure Gabe decided he would take the shot well before he drove. He's not a PG.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:22 am

I think the play essentially fell apart when York lost the ball and had to go recover it. Whatever play was drawn up was likely based heavily on timing (they all are). When he lost it and cost a few seconds people were probably not in the right places. Gabe panicked and took it to the hoop.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:25 am

billk78 wrote: Gabe panicked and took it to the hoop.

Totally, and yet even in this broken play, we still had KA wide open for a game winning layup.

splitsecond · Post by **splitsecond** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:58 pm

RiseAndFire wrote:woulda been nice to have a timeout to call a play, but miller burns through timeouts like Trump goes through wives so there you go

why isnt a ph setting up gabe or Kadeem fro the gw shot??

I have been complaining about this since he got here. He manages the clock like his name was Andy Reid. It's so frustrating.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:38 pm

It seems like the ability to make game winning shot is more about the players and less about the coaches. When I think about the ones we have had over the past 30 years, they involve some pretty incredible players. Salim, Miles, Terry, Williams, Lyons, Wise, Wright, MoMo, Mills, Reeves, Rooks, McMillan, Jefferson.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:15 am

splitsecond wrote:
RiseAndFire wrote:woulda been nice to have a timeout to call a play, but miller burns through timeouts like Trump goes through wives so there you go

why isnt a ph setting up gabe or Kadeem fro the gw shot??
I have been complaining about this since he got here. He manages the clock like his name was Andy Reid. It's so frustrating.

We lost the game in the beginning of the second half. Miller burnt them trying to stop the clock and end Cal's run. It's not an odd decision.

If we had extended the lead into double digits when we had the chance in the 1st or not came out horribly in the second, we win that game. Miller can't play for the last shot when we're getting hammered like we were in the beginning of the 2nd.

Edit: For Rise and Fire, why we go zone should never be more apparent than now, and it is not a reflection of strength.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:32 am

billk78 wrote:I think the play essentially fell apart when York lost the ball and had to go recover it. Whatever play was drawn up was likely based heavily on timing (they all are). When he lost it and cost a few seconds people were probably not in the right places. Gabe panicked and took it to the hoop.

Agreed. After Gabe recovered the ball he was in a semi-panic, and looked to me he was just, desperately, trying to get a shot off....

In both the UCLA and Cal losses, I think we should be as bolstered (at this point in the season) by the incredible fight put up by the cat's in the final minutes to pull even after decidedly sub-par on-the-road performances....

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:48 am

Allen should be the guy with the ball in his hands for the last shot. He gets to the rim much better than anyone else (other than Trier). He can also get it to the open man if he gets doubled. Could be York from 3.

Tough games get us ready for the tournament. I think we will have a lot of them in the Pac this year. Remember, the 1997 team finished 5th in the Pac. Would love to win the Pac 12 regular season title, but learning through very close losses could be more beneficial for the ultimate goal: Final Four and NC.

Once Trier returns, if everyone else has improved, this team might be dangerous come March.

Go Cats!!

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:17 pm

Our last timeout was with 1:06 left. Miller called that play as Parker was bringing the ball down so this wasn't "drawn up." Im sure we practice last second plays and I doubt that's what they've decided works best.

I also find it really odd that Simon and Ristic were on the bench. Allen could have used a pick and roll, drove or kicked it out to Gabe. Clear out and let Ristic go to town. No way they foul. All of which would have been better than Gabe going 1 on 4. Hind sight...

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:09 pm

I'll bump this again. Bad call at the end gave us less time to work with, but Trier was so far out on that heave. At least it went to trier this time...

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:13 pm

My prediction....

After failing on every last second shot during the regular season, we will finally make 1 in March. It will be worth the wait

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:14 pm

That's about as good a look as it will get down 3 with that little time. Colorado is gonna switch everything and they don't have to guard inside the 3 point line.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:16 pm

Alieberman wrote:My prediction....

After failing on every last second shot during the regular season, we will finally make 1 in March. It will be worth the wait

I will happily bump this thread if that comes true

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:17 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:That's about as good a look as it will get down 3 with that little time. Colorado is gonna switch everything and they don't have to guard inside the 3 point line.

You're right. It wasn't as bad as the others. And I have more faith in Trier. But were you at all confident we would tie at the end? Maybe Im pessimistic. But I just said to myself, here we go again, another close loss.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:20 pm

No timeouts.

Coaching

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:23 pm

billk78 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:That's about as good a look as it will get down 3 with that little time. Colorado is gonna switch everything and they don't have to guard inside the 3 point line.
You're right. It wasn't as bad as the others. And I have more faith in Trier. But were you at all confident we would tie at the end? Maybe Im pessimistic. But I just said to myself, here we go again, another close loss.

I was surprised we got it that close. Colorado was hot then went ice cold.

On the last shot, I didn't have a lot of confidence. Those are just low percentage situations and the missed call on Gabe really hurt. Those extra seconds give you a second or third option that we didn't have.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:24 pm

So whose gonna tell Sean that Gabe's handles aren't nice like that?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:25 pm

cats101 wrote:No timeouts.

Coaching

Yea, should have let those runs continue and the crowd to gain even more momentum. It doesnt matter if we have timeouts. The result isnt gonna change

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:26 pm

Not like the Cats had a timeout to setup a play.

York playing hero ball really hurt. Quit with the dribbling end of game. Setup a play. Send it inside, and look for a set a shoot 3 point shot outside.

prh · Post by **prh** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:27 pm

I can't believe Gabe wasted 15 seconds trying to dance into a 3 instead of just going to the rim off the turnover. After that, Trier semi open was the best I would have hoped for.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:28 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
cats101 wrote:No timeouts.

Coaching
Yea, should have let those runs continue and the crowd to gain even more momentum. It doesnt matter if we have timeouts. The result isnt gonna change

If he doesn't take a TO when they make a run, Miller gets ripped for that. If he does take them then, he gets ripped for not having TO's at the end.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:33 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
cats101 wrote:No timeouts.

Coaching
Yea, should have let those runs continue and the crowd to gain even more momentum. It doesnt matter if we have timeouts. The result isnt gonna change

4 of 5 PAC 12 losses on last possession. Not all York's fault. He's not getting paid millions to win games. I understand he's the whipping boy for everyone when has has a bad game but it's a collective effort and it starts at the top.

Youre right doesn't matter if they had timeouts because miller decided to use them in the first 10 minutes.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:34 pm

cats101 wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
cats101 wrote:No timeouts.

Coaching
Yea, should have let those runs continue and the crowd to gain even more momentum. It doesnt matter if we have timeouts. The result isnt gonna change
4 of 5 PAC 12 losses on last possession. Not all York's fault. He's not getting paid millions to win games. I understand he's the whipping boy for everyone when has has a bad game but it's a collective effort and it starts at the top.

Youre right doesn't matter if they had timeouts because miller decided to use them in the first 10 minutes.

Why does York keep pounding the ball into the ground instead of setting up a play when he has the ball with 20 seconds left?

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