When do we start recruiting actual Point Guards?

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:22 am

We've had a total of one during Miller's reign. What's the problem Sean?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:31 am

Justin Simon was brought in as a point guard, and never developed over the season.

PJC never made the freshman to sophomore jump.

Let's see what CSM can do with Kodi Simmons or hopefully a grad transfer.

Really don't care for 2Gs being forced to play the point like Allen, along with Momo Jones and Mark Lyons.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:34 am

Most players want to be great scorers over distributors. An actual PG is difficult to find these days.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:36 am

Well we do recruit them, I remember we were leading for Derryck Thornton and attempted to get in the De'Aaron Fox sweepstakes we just haven't landed that true PG yet.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:41 am

Part of the issue is that everybody knew TJ was going to eat up a ton of minutes for 2 years. PJC was the best prospect we could have reasonably gotten last year with very little available PT.

Next, Josiah Turner was a true PG. He also had some other issues that caused him to flame out hard and necessitated Lyons.

A lot of our issues simply arise from those two things. The 2009 recruiting class was a desperate scramble for anything we could get, and 2010 wasn't a lot better. So I don't blame Miller for Momo. The swing and miss on Josiah cost us the next two years. We got everything we could have hoped for from TJ, but it stalled us a bit in recruiting due to lack of PT. We were off this year and have a 5 star PG coming in next year.

It isn't stellar, but it isn't really that bad a reflection on Miller.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:46 am

We recruit SG's with the hope of making them a PG. Simon is a SG. Not a PG. Simmons seems to be a SG as well regardless of the PG title.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:08 am

whatisee wrote:We recruit SG's with the hope of making them a PG. Simon is a SG. Not a PG. Simmons seems to be a SG as well regardless of the PG title.

Incorrect. We've recruited many many pgs.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:23 am

whatisee wrote:We recruit SG's with the hope of making them a PG. Simon is a SG. Not a PG. Simmons seems to be a SG as well regardless of the PG title.

Jordin Mayes, Josiah Turner, PJC and TJ via transfer were all PG's first. Compare to that Momo, Allen and Lyons via transfer who are the only SG's we've tried to convert. Momo and Lyons happened because we had no options.

People talked about Simon as a PG, but Miller has never tried to convert him or play him in the PG rotation. With Simmons, let's see him play in the Red/Blue game before we decide what he is.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:24 am

We don't even need a 'traditional' pg...we can have more of a scoring guard at the 1, as long as he can play team ball and handle the rock under pressure. We need someone with some fuckin stones and I like Kobi to be that guy. He has the height and athleticism too for the cherry on top. Throw in our gluttony of athleticism on the wing along with Chance, Dusan, and a big man transfer and were lookin good for next year.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:29 am

Main Event wrote:Well we do recruit them, I remember we were leading for Derryck Thornton and attempted to get in the De'Aaron Fox sweepstakes we just haven't landed that true PG yet.

sad -- went PJC instead which was a HUGE mistake.

this year produced the worst play from the PG spot (outside '11 w/Josiah Turner MAYBE) at Arizona in the last 30 years.

until Sean Miler & Co recruit and land an ELITE level PG or very solid true four year PG there will be no Final Four.

and before anyone asks, Jackson Cartwright is 100% not the answer as a starter or even a 20 min a game back-up -- he is nowhere near a championship level PG (which is the expectation for the PG spot at a school like AZ) and has no business playing major minutes at a program like Arizona.

non whatsoever

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:30 am

Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:34 am

84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.

im all for a solid true four year PG -- hasnt happened once since coming to AZ.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:52 am

pokinmik wrote:We don't even need a 'traditional' pg...we can have more of a scoring guard at the 1, as long as he can play team ball and handle the rock under pressure. We need someone with some fuckin stones and I like Kobi to be that guy. He has the height and athleticism too for the cherry on top. Throw in our gluttony of athleticism on the wing along with Chance, Dusan, and a big man transfer and were lookin good for next year.

great point. i remember CSM saying that even though he was a "true" pg in college and is more accustomed to playing pass-first pgs, he has learned to embrace the versatility that combo guards bring to the table at the1. they just gotta have the handles, court vision, and ball iq to run the offense and create scoring opportunities for himself and his teammates. oh yeah, and defend. TJ was awesome and i love the guy to pieces, but let's not forget how hard the coaching staff and players had to coax him into being more assertive with his shot.

also regarding the original Q, CSM is still recruiting "actual point guards". remember that PJC was a five star prospect and a top 10 pg in his recruiting class. i'm hoping PJC considers taking a RS year if it is the right thing, because his best playing days are ahead of him.

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:55 am

84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.

I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.

And no, mid majors don't win championships.

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:57 am

dirtbags wrote: great point. i remember CSM saying that even though he was a "true" pg in college and is more accustomed to playing pass-first pgs, he has learned to embrace the versatility that combo guards bring to the table at the1. they just gotta have the handles, court vision, and ball iq to run the offense and create scoring opportunities for himself and his teammates. oh yeah, and defend. TJ was awesome and i love the guy to pieces, but let's not forget how hard the coaching staff and players had to coax him into being more assertive with his shot.

Unfortunately, as I've been saying for a while, Allen has none of those things. And he's a mediocre at best shooter to boot.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:58 am

legallykenny wrote:
84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.

And no, mid majors don't win championships.

i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:01 am

dirtbags wrote:
i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.

thats exactly what he means and Jackson-Cartwright is 100% not that guy -- he is a back-up at best and nowhere near a championship level PG that Arizona should have on its roster.

not landing one in seven years is alarming

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:02 am

dirtbags wrote:
also regarding the original Q, CSM is still recruiting "actual point guards". remember that PJC was a five star prospect and a top 10 pg in his recruiting class. i'm hoping PJC considers taking a RS year if it is the right thing, because his best playing days are ahead of him.

Where was he a five star prospect, let alone a top 10 PG in his class?

Sean struggles recruiting PG's like Lute struggled to recruit bigs. Wasn't Thornton not coming here relating to his experience with Trier? Regardless, we have had a lot of misses at the PG position since Sean has been here and I am not sure why. Fultz, F Jackson, Briscoe, and Thornton in just the last two classes come to mind as guys we missed on.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:05 am

gronk4heisman wrote: Wasn't Thornton not coming here relating to his experience with Trier?

no -- Arizona went with PJC instead

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:06 am

PJC was a 4 star.

Simon was a 5 star.

PJC is short, and always will be. Unless you are an elite defender, and he is not, then every other guard will dominate him.

Walton said PJC is the shortest player in the conference of champions.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:08 am

Maybe he's also talking about anyone that Wichita had last night. You know, guys who hustle?

I've put this season in the rearview mirror already. Thinking about what needs to be fixed. As I posted in another thread...

Lute developed PGs, save Bibby who was the best talent at the position the state of Arizona had produced in decades.

We want PGs, but we want them now. Steve Kerr took five years. Damon Stoudamire was still jittery and shaky after two.

We've been down the road of the grad transfer PG before, and Mark Lyons was great for what he was, but not the answer we're looking for.

There are kids that are out there if the culture to develop is there.

But, and maybe this is just speaking for me, I saw a culture of laziness grow like mold in the program this season. And I am done with making Miller light fires under these guys' asses.

Nothing about their futures are guaranteed, and there was not a single game this year that I could point to and say, Arizona outworked them. Not even ASU. Everyone suffered from a terrible case of the "good enough"s, and unfortunately, that extended even to Allen, York and Zeus.

As Miller said after the Oregon loss:

Arizona's 49-game home winning streak had barely ended when coach Sean Miller ripped into his team.

In the aftermath of the 18th-ranked Wildcats 83-75 loss to No. 23 Oregon on Thursday night, Miller said his players simply aren't doing what he's telling them to do.

"I've never been more down looking at a team I coached than what I just saw," he said. "Leadership, effort, togetherness, playing for the win. And right now things are going to get worse before they get better."

He went on to elaborate on his disgust.

"We've got to come to grips with two things," Miller said. "One, Sean Miller's your coach. You're gonna play for me. And Number 2 is, you're going to go so hard you can't breathe."

He said the Wildcats are "a collection right now of guys that are independent and thinking about a lot of things but certainly not thinking about what we're doing and what I'm talking about."

Miller's displeasure was obvious on the sideline during the game. At one point in the first half, he had face-to-face tirade against Kaleb Tarczewski, pointing a finger inches from the big senior center's nose.

The coach was asked what prompted that outburst.

"This isn't tennis," Miller said. "This is basketball. There's accountability on offense and defense and you win as a team and you lose as a team. I'll stop right there."

The Wildcats, who fell to 16-5 overall and at 4-4 are tied for sixth in the Pac-12, had lots of trouble with Oregon's trapping zone defense, committing 19 turnovers to the Ducks' six.

"They had nine steals," Miller said. "They played very hard. They've got great quickness. We were a disaster. We threw the ball to them on a number of occasions."

He said don't confuse this team with the ones that have dominated Pac-12 play in the past.

"Don't judge this team like Derrick Williams is on it. Or Sean Elliott. Or Rondae Hollis-Jefferson," Miller said. "Judge our team by the people that are in our locker room when we play. Just because things have happened in the past doesn't mean we can just -- the Jumbotron comes up and the crowd starts going crazy -- that we're going to win. That's not the way it works. It's a whole brand new ballgame right now."

If there was any off-season in which the Arizona basketball program needed to instill a new attitude, it would be this one.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:09 am

dirtbags wrote:
legallykenny wrote:
84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.

And no, mid majors don't win championships.
i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.

Funny that 97 understood what I meant. Dirtbags has it right. I don't see it with pjc either. I'm talking about a 4 year guy who has a chip on his shoulder(probably unheralded), scrappy, true leader who isn't afraid to get in guys face when they aren't playing smart. Other than tj & momo, who hits the deck to get a ball? More nastiness, less softies!

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:10 am

97cats wrote:
gronk4heisman wrote: Wasn't Thornton not coming here relating to his experience with Trier?
no -- Arizona went with PJC instead

So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:13 am

Merkin wrote:PJC was a 4 star.

im sure he deserved that, but the phisicality of the college game and the mental commitment it takes is beyond him.

he gets manhandled from top to bottom -- he is not a championship level player, period.

Merkin wrote:Simon was a 5 star.

not a PG

and, i know it wont happen, but Justin Simon is the perfect candidate to red-shirt next yr, IMO -- it would give him the best chance at 10yrs of pro basketball if he did.

tremendous upside but he needs a lot of polish; if he was patient in his approach and committed himself to that timeline, he would get the most out of opportunity to play beyond college.

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:13 am

dirtbags wrote:
legallykenny wrote:
84Cat wrote:Why don't we recruit more mid major type point guards like tj? Do they not wins championships? Very few of the point guards that we recruit have been scrappy & shown any real leadership. Those type of guards should be dying to play for CSM at Arizona.
I'm not sure what this post means. What is a "mid major type point guard"? TJ was a scouting miss who developed far beyond his evaluations so he left his mid major to find his level at an elite major.

And no, mid majors don't win championships.
i think he means more of a scrappy 3-4 year player with a chip on his shoulder who the staff can develop. maybe that's pjc.

The recruiting ranks aren't exactly full of point guards with NBA talent who are just athletically limited enough that they have to play all 4 years, and they're basically impossible to recognize. If you do see any though, please let the staff know because I'm sure they'd be more than happy to offer the next Kerr or TJ.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:14 am

gronk4heisman wrote:
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?

he didnt come here cause the staff backed off him to keep Cartwright -- i know it hurts the brain to read, as it hurt my brain to hear it at the time.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:14 am

Are we still going after Troy Brown in 2017?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:15 am

Frybry02 wrote:Are we still going after Troy Brown in 2017?

i believe i started a '17 thread for you reference, and the answer is yes.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:16 am

silly to split hairs at this point, but: https://goo.gl/nRt18h" target="_blank

first result (tucson citizen) - Scout.com ranks Jackson-Cartwright as a five-star recruit and the sixth-best point guard in the class. ESPN.com tabs him as the No. 7 point guard nationally. Rivals.com and 247Sports rank him similarly and put him among the top 50 players in the nation.

the pg accolade is also in his UA bio - Ranked as the No. 32 overall recruit and No. 5 point guard in his recruiting class by Scout … Rated as the No. 51 overall recruit in his class by Rivals … Rated as the No. 57 overall recruit, No. 11 point guard and No. 6 player from California in his recruiting class … Ranked as the No. 62 overall prospect and the No. 12 point guard in his class by 247 Sports …

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:17 am

97cats wrote:
gronk4heisman wrote:
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?
he didnt come here cause the staff backed off him to keep Cartwright -- i know it hurts the brain to read, as it hurt my brain to hear it at the time.

What did the staff see in PJC exactly? Are we sure they didn't accidentally mix up his tapes with Ulis'?

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:18 am

dirtbags wrote:silly to split hairs at this point, but: https://goo.gl/nRt18h" target="_blank

first result (tucson citizen) - Scout.com ranks Jackson-Cartwright as a five-star recruit and the sixth-best point guard in the class. ESPN.com tabs him as the No. 7 point guard nationally. Rivals.com and 247Sports rank him similarly and put him among the top 50 players in the nation.

the pg accolade is also in his UA bio - Ranked as the No. 32 overall recruit and No. 5 point guard in his recruiting class by Scout … Rated as the No. 51 overall recruit in his class by Rivals … Rated as the No. 57 overall recruit, No. 11 point guard and No. 6 player from California in his recruiting class … Ranked as the No. 62 overall prospect and the No. 12 point guard in his class by 247 Sports …

I don't mind him as a backup, kinda change of pace PG like he was his freshman year backing up TJ. As THE guy though he's not that on this level

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:22 am

I disagree that we don't recruit midmajor 4 year PG types. Frankly, I think we have 3 of those types on our roster right now. Allen, PJC and Simon are all guys who aren't instant impact guys, but guys with flaws who have to develop into their niche.

Guys usually go midmajor because there is some issue that makes the majors overlook them. With PJC, it's size. With Allen, it's that he is PG size but SG skillset. With Simon, it's his rawness.

It just isn't going great right now. I question whether PJC will ever be a starter, Simon needs to develop a good amount (and may never be a PG) and Allen has to protect the ball and win time with his D, and his ability to do that seemed to regress as the season went along.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:22 am

97cats wrote:
gronk4heisman wrote:
So he didn't come here because of a fringe PG two classes ahead of him?
he didnt come here cause the staff backed off him to keep Cartwright -- i know it hurts the brain to read, as it hurt my brain to hear it at the time.

Thats a big misstep on the staffs part then. We couldn't get back in on him once PJC got to campus and it was clear he wasn't going to be the PG needed to lead a successful college team?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:30 am

gronk4heisman wrote:
Thats a big misstep on the staffs part then.

i agree

gronk4heisman wrote: We couldn't get back in on him once PJC got to campus

yes they could, last season Arizona had a chance to continue to pursue Thornton in the Fall and backed off cause PJC's camp had a cow and a half when they found out so Arizona pulled out.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:36 am

97-

Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:36 am

Wait...our recruiters got scared away from a recruit by PJC's posse?

Is this some Compton Magic bullsh*t that we dealt with in Gabe York's recruitment?

I thought the best player in practice played in the games. Period. If anyone's getting intimidated by that, or trying to protect a recruit too much, we need to be looking elsewhere.

That's where the line should be drawn with four- and five-stars. Miller, I think, knows it too and won't bend over that far backwards for future recruits.

WildcatLouis · Post by **WildcatLouis** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:38 am

"yes they could, last season Arizona had a chance to continue to pursue Thornton in the Fall and backed off cause PJC's camp had a cow and a half when they found out so Arizona pulled out."

That comment is amazing. The fact that all these college athletes have "handlers" is insane. Do PJC's handlers believe that a 5'7" PG has NBA potential that Miller would be impacting by recruiting other players? (I know he is listed at 5'11", but there's now way that is true.)

97, I have always thought that Miller gave a longer leash to York than most other players because the program was afraid of pissing of his camp and those recruiting connections. Any thoughts? Maybe it's just me, but the past couple of years I have felt that York was handled differently than other players.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:39 am

Alieberman wrote:97-

Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?

Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:41 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Alieberman wrote:97-

Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.

yes but hes more Mark Lyons than TJ McConnell

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:46 am

legallykenny wrote:
What did the staff see in PJC exactly? Are we sure they didn't accidentally mix up his tapes with Ulis'?

LMAO -- maybe

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:49 am

97cats wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Alieberman wrote:97-

Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.
yes but hes more Mark Lyons than TJ McConnell

Yeah, I just don't know what else we can do between now and next year.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:53 am

WildcatLouis wrote: That comment is amazing. The fact that all these college athletes have "handlers" is insane. Do PJC's handlers believe that a 5'7" PG has NBA potential that Miller would be impacting by recruiting other players? (I know he is listed at 5'11", but there's now way that is true.)

it was just a mistake, Arizona shoulda taken Thornton regardless

WildcatLouis wrote:97, I have always thought that Miller gave a longer leash to York

his junior and senior seasons there is no question about it

WildcatLouis wrote:Maybe it's just me

its not just you

WildcatLouis wrote:the past couple of years I have felt that York was handled differently than other players.

cause he was

Siempre Verde · Post by **Siempre Verde** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:01 pm

97cats wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Alieberman wrote:97-

Do we have a pg either that is committed or someone else that could still come that could fix our pg problem for next year or are we 2 years away?
Not 97, but I think Kobi is as much of a solution for people not currently on the roster.
yes but hes more Mark Lyons than TJ McConnell

Right now I'd be happier with that than some of the other options mentioned. At least Momo had some cajones, wasn't a pure turnover machine or someone who'd rather watch the ball roll past him than risk getting an ouchy on his leg or tear his compression pants.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Pretty big fuckin misread acquiescing to PJC and his folks instead of keeping the pursuit on a guy like Thornton. You can tell from the mixtapes alone that PJC isn't nearly as good or promising. My judgment is probably clouded a tad since I'm playing monday morning qb but it's still fairly obvious.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:18 pm

I just don't know who is going to be the leader on our team next year. There's no one currently on our roster that has it. Even with all the talent we have coming in, unless someone steps up to lead his team I don't see a FF in our future.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:19 pm

pokinmik wrote:Pretty big fuckin misread acquiescing to PJC and his folks instead of keeping the pursuit on a guy like Thornton. You can tell from the mixtapes alone that PJC isn't nearly as good or promising. My judgment is probably clouded a tad since I'm playing monday morning qb but it's still fairly obvious.

I don't disagree except to say that from what I saw of Thornton this year at Duke, he would have put us in a better place, but he wouldn't have reversed this team's fortunes. I agree he was better than PJC, but look at his advanced stats.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ton-1.html" target="_blank

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:27 pm

Alieberman wrote:I just don't know who is going to be the leader on our team next year. There's no one currently on our roster that has it. Even with all the talent we have coming in, unless someone steps up to lead his team I don't see a FF in our future.

Ray Smith is actually this guy with his personality and maturity -- also, if Jackson comes to Arizona he is a huge upgrade in this dept just because of the respect he immediately commands for nothing other than being the best......and, if Trier is back, he will be more comfortable as a soph as well and the guy is just so competitive.

plus, to that last point, Alkins is a very confident guy as is Simmons -- by default shit will be much more competitive and intense with zero coddling.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:41 pm

97cats wrote:
Alieberman wrote:I just don't know who is going to be the leader on our team next year. There's no one currently on our roster that has it. Even with all the talent we have coming in, unless someone steps up to lead his team I don't see a FF in our future.
Ray Smith is actually this guy with his personality and maturity -- also, if Jackson comes to Arizona he is a huge upgrade in this dept just because of the respect he immediately commands for nothing other than being the best......and, if Trier is back, he will be more comfortable as a soph as well and the guy is just so competitive.

plus, to that last point, Alkins is a very confident guy as is Simmons -- by default shit will be much more competitive and intense with zero coddling.

We lost a lot in that department tbe last two years. We lost two great vocal leaders in TJ and NJ and two great leaders by example in RHJ and AG.

I love Gabe, but his game is premised on hot shooting, and he has very little edge. Anderson, same, super efficient, but very little edge. Zeus, good guy, hard worker, but the injury knocked him back and he was really the only guy who flashed the toughness everyone had the last few years.

Hopefully Trier returns, because he's the closest of our returners from this roster. I hope Chance makes a jump because we need a little raw aggression inside and I don't see DR or LM as bringing that.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:01 pm

Elite defensive coach struggling to find PGs. I've seen that story before

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:13 pm

This is like when football teams ask why they can't get an elite QB.

There are only so many with the immediate talent, and most have to be developed, and many don't have the patience, others not the work ethic, and few have all that, plus the actual vision and mentality.

We thought they grew on trees because Lute always had one or two very good to great ones.

But truth is, you must have a perfect combination of talent, physical traits, drive, passion, mentality, and ethic to get a good one, and most take years to emerge.

It's frustrating, for sure.

But so much in what a PG is has changed since Lute's prime at Arizona. Most now are SGs playing point, with legitimate issues at this level, that must be addressed. Most pass-first guards simply aren't available or developed for immediate use.

Think of the best true PGs of the last 10 years. Most were likely from mid-major schools, and others who went to a major program needed at least two years to develop.

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