Arizona @UCLA Discussion Thread

[scumdevils86]

good posts hacats...but yeah I hate that I have this gnawing feeling that we're going to get the doors blown off. Will be very glad to be proven wrong!

[azgreg]

I'm starting to feel a little different. Been watching the pregame coverage of Stanford/Washington and hear the talking heads clamor at "two of the best programs in the country" and we just took one of them to OT. My glass is filling up a little bit.

[Harvey Specter]

Really getting sick of the rr show and his ability to talk about of both sides of his mouth, telling Tate he is a Qb in s just the latest example of this character trait.

Well Tate looked like a QB tonight.... Did not matter in the end, we got throttled by a marginal team. Regardless of how anyone wants to spin it - that is what UCLA is. Entire conference is weak this year.

We have had injury issues again. Shocking considering all the proclamations about how far superior RR's strength & conditioning program was to ANYTHING we had seen previous to his arrival. I remember how definitive all those statements were.. just like thy have been every time a new coach is hired.

I laughed this past week when another young UA fan told me this has been the greatest 4-5 year run in AZ FB history. This will have been our 4th losing conference record in his 5 year tenure. Check the record books, youngsters, before making inane statements that the facts do not support.

We have the 3rd highest paid coach in the conference, I believe. Does not appear to me that we are getting our money's worth.

The faithful can take solace that no one will consider paying our coach more than we are... So Carolina was willing to match it last season, but that won't happen gain aytime soon. We will get to look forward to more of the same next season... and probably the one after that.

In my next life I want to be a college FB coach. Have 1 good year in 4... Fire half of my staff, and buy myself 3 more years at 2MM+ per annum... it's good work if you can get it.

PS - For all those who blamed Stoops' recruiting for our woes... It is getting to be time for a new talk track. A lot of his guys were on the depth chart in 2014. They are gone now...

[azcat49]

Welcome back Harve, you've been missed. Oh and once again, you are right

[PHXCATS]

How many teams beat UCLA on the road with the fourth string qb and rb and multiple injuries on the oline? Some of you seem to lack that knowledge when forming your opinions. Go for it, will just make things tougher for the future on you.

Can't blame the offense for having a hard time with the number of injuries before the game and then during. Defense was great minus a few plays until they were too worn down from the offense. Special teams is an area of concern though, I will say that.

Get some of the guys who have the talent and that rr trusts back and this team can beat anyone left on the schedule without a doubt.

[azpenguin]

Dawkins was injured, I believe, on the third drive of the game, the one after the Cats scored the first TD. After that he was pretty much ineffective, seeing as he couldn't run or throw well at all. That was a stroke of bad luck, obviously, but especially with the timing of it. On nine first half drives (not counting the kneel down to end the half) the defense held UCLA to 14 points on nine drives. This included forcing four three and outs in the half. Then after UCLA goes out and scores on their first drive, Werlinger went three and out. UCLA ends up with a short field after the punt return but the defense held them to three after a three and out. 11 drives, 24 points, five three and outs... no wonder the defense was gassed for the last quarter and a half. Arizona had ten drives in the first half. Once Dawkins was hurt they couldn't move the ball and went three and out several times. So the defense did their job but kept having to run right back out there and do it again. If the defense can keep improving and playing well enough to keep the team in games, and if the offensive playmakers can get healthy, Arizona can win some games. That second part is a big "if" though.

[DaddyO'Cat]

How many teams beat UCLA on the road with the fourth string qb and rb and multiple injuries on the oline? Some of you seem to lack that knowledge when forming your opinions. Go for it, will just make things tougher for the future on you.

Can't blame the offense for having a hard time with the number of injuries before the game and then during. Defense was great minus a few plays until they were too worn down from the offense. Special teams is an area of concern though, I will say that.

Get some of the guys who have the talent and that rr trusts back and this team can beat anyone left on the schedule without a doubt.

Yeah but why though? Just playing devils advocate here for discussion purposes. Not ranting and raving. There's too many things piling up in the negative column. Injuries have exploded for UA. Is it because of field turf? Subpar recruiting? Bad strength and conditioning program? Lousy or non existent mechanics and angles being taught? Too much favoritism? How many times have we seen someone come in and we are like "wow saviour here" but dudes been there for a while and could never crack the rotation until RR was forced to. Suspect system or play calling that predisposed people at key positions to injuries? Hope this isn't distracting but I've noticed another reporter now speaking negatively about RR's decisions/management. On tucson.com. (Gold)

[prh]

Yeah if there was any semblance of offensive support throughout the second and third quarters, I think the defense holds up much better late in the game. At this point, I'm really pleased with how the defense has come along, definitely surpassing (low) expectations.

[MrBug708]

Was a weird game. I think ucla had about a dozen wide open drops.

[qwertyus]

You know, it's said that staying healthy (as in, not getting injured) is a skill. Our players clearly lack that skill. As a team. We're not just injury-riddled at one position to a freakish degree. We've got injuries on both sides of the ball in skill positions and along the OL/DL.

Honestly, this game was kinda a final straw for me this season. I'm tired of seeing us continue to trot out linemen that are the size of my brother (245 lbs at the end of his playing days in HS), with DB's who give up 15 yards of space every play, only to get beat deep anyway. We've invested many millions of dollars into this program. We've dilly-dallied on changing out an ineffective coaching staff on the defensive side of the ball, and we're still getting shellacked on a regular basis. I cannot fathom how we've turned a Pac-12 South title and consistent bowl seasons into this (that is to say low) level of a team.

I'm not quite throwing in the towel just yet. Certainly, I'm the most optimistic Cats fan out of all of my friends, so I won't stop watching. But I'm very close to switching fully over to basketball. I'm goddamn tired of this team.

[Merkin]

Can RichRod put Devonte Neal back on offense? Dude is the worst corner I can remember in an UA uniform. No one on the roster can beat him out?

Put Neal at RB.

[azcat49]

Not a bad thought Merk. Play the youth anyway. Get Whitaker or Holiday some experience

[Merkin]

Not a bad thought Merk. Play the youth anyway. Get Whitaker or Holiday some experience

Since this year is a rebuilding year anyway, why not?

Need some RB to block for Tate though, was in Grant who whiffed on the blitzer on the last TD pass?

[EVCat]

Injuries are injuries. High ankle sprains, broken bones, rib injuries...those aren't strength and conditioning issues like pulled muscles or lack of protective muscle.

The term "injury prone" is overused in sports, especially football. An injury is an injury, and there is little one can do to prevent. Hurt is hurt, and can be played through.

Most of what we have is true injury, which isn't indicative of much other than bad luck, like a whistle not blowing when the runner is clearly stopped like the play that broke JJ. Some fans like to be the Junction Boys star of their own fan movie, and talk the tough "no excuses" BS. But sometimes there are excuses. Little Johnny had to miss today's game because he had the sniffles is an excuse. John missed the game because his bones were snapped in half is not an excuse. It is an injury.

"Injury prone" players that are issues are the ones who won't play through pain when further injury is not likely by simple continuing. Based on what I saw from Nick coming off the field and his emotions, and Brandon trying to will himself to be able to breathe and return to the game, not even in that order? I am not feeling like either of those guys were the type won't give 100%.

There is some science to having brittle bones, etc, but that isn't what we are talking about here. These players aren't tapping out with nagging little issues that could be played through. They have been injured. Or arrested, but that's a different story.

What sucks is, as it turns out, Brandon Dawkins at QB with Nick Wilson and JJ Taylor at RB is a really potent offensive base. We did lose to BYU by 2 with the wrong QB. We did lost to a pretty damn good, as it turns out, top 10 UW team that I fully believe we would have beat if our #1 and #3 (and, I suppose #2) RB weren't out of the game.

I hate when people have excuses for everything. But I am equally as suspect of the idea that real life circumstances that are not equal across the board should not impact a team. Or that there must be blame for all things. It's like those people who try to justify the shittiness of fanbases like ASU by saying "all teams have bad fans" and name a couple of instance in support. Sure, every base has bad fans...but it is not equal. In fact, it would be statistically much more difficult for fan bases to be equal in their bad actions across the board. There is not some computer assist on this video game making circumstances equal in impact. And sometimes, you have a really bad run injury-wise. Who knows why? And not players unwilling to tough it out (lack of motivation) or the type of muscle injuries that come from over-training or poor cross training. But real injury.

There are real things to question, like why Anu started over Dawkins, or our lack of depth on defense that allowed the UW game to be more difficult just in single position injuries. But depth charts aren't built to cover 4th string RBs and QBs (especially QBs, the guy with the ball on every offensive down). This season is off the rails in part due to some coaching decisions (if the proper QB is identified, we win BYU) and things coaches cannot scheme around (losing your #1, #2, #3 RB and your #1 and #2 QB and having a #3 that was a clipboard holder in place so you could keep Tate as a redshirt). And a lot of that isn't an excuse...it's a reason.

What's most frustrating to me is, in retrospect, we had the chance to be a pretty good (not great) team this year. Better offense than last year, defense better in stretches (cannot hold this team in a game without offense/points, tho).

[Sid]

Since the Australian rugby kicker/punter thing is so popular can we send Matty D to that side of the pond to find a throwback Larry Czonka type rugby player and coach him up for RB/TB?

Couldn't hurt.....

[Harvey Specter]

I get that we have injury issues... That has been a recurring theme for quite some time.

It seems that every time something bad happens, it's "bad luck" (Stoops recruiting, injuries, etc)... And on those occasions when something good happens, it is superior coaching. Credit for everything that goes well, and no criticism for any failures, that is convenient and generous.

Sorry... Based on results, RR should hire Mike Stoops to recruit for him.

As for RR having "bad luck"... The man is the 3rd highest paid coach in the P12 I believe (>$2.5M per) and he will have had 4 losing conference records in 5 tries.

I wish I had such bad luck..

[EVCat]

But what can you do about injuries?

I mean, yes, we can say "look at the last two years and how bad this is?" (it seems silly to hold a coach hired because the previous coach was fired accountable for that first year or two record). We can also point to massive, massive injuries last year and a reasonable finishing record given the injuries. But what last year revealed was a lack of depth on defense, one that had been covered by excellent scheming in the prior years (yards per game/points per game are worthless in a hurry up system, but in overall defensive efficiency, those first 3 teams were solid). So RichRod did what he had to do, and didn't really have a reason to do in the prior years...blow Casteel out the door. If you think of it realistically, and from a business decision that requires a firing and a new hiring, RichRod got rid of Casteel the very first opportunity to do so. There is no way he could have done so after year 1, 2, or 3...the performance didn't dictate such a move.

So this year, we are buried with off the depth chart players at the two skill positions most required for this style of play.

So what, exactly, was supposed to be done different. Other than the original Casteel hire, what did RichRod do wrong that stands out? He blew a friend and longtime D coordinator out the door the first time his defense became a liability. Picking Anu over Dawkins? OK...that's a legit discussion, but there is also a legit argument for the other side based on Anu's past. I think we can see that Anu got the game hit out of him...he was willing to keep it enough to get by when healthy. But other than that, what are we pinning on RichRod?

Sometimes bad luck happens. I feel like, beyond Scooby and the MLB position last year, that injury issue was the problem of depth. And, rightfully, the move to change staff was made. This year? I don't see how we can talk about depth in the 4th spot at QB and RB. This year is much more a fluke than last year.

[Merkin]

Undersized OL, play calling with small RBs constantly running up the middle for 2 yards, and having an offense predicated on a running QB is just asking for more injuries.

How many others grimaced when Tate lowered his shoulder and went into a UCLA tackler?

Remember when Solomon did that as a RS freshman?

[Carcassdragger]

I think RR has made some mistakes like not addressing defensive recruiting earlier and flirting with other programs which had to hurt recruiting. But regardless of how this year turns out, I think he's a very good coach with (hopefully) a clean program and young men with a lot of heart.

He's given us some very big wins against some very highly ranked programs (#2 Oregon!!) and is only two years removed from Pac 12 coach of the year honors. I'm still thinking the next few years will bear out how good he really is.

[EVCat]

Undersized OL..>Check

Run up the middle? It's a read option with the option to hand the ball off to the RB, keep around the edge, or throw. That's a sight read, not a call to run up the middle. It's the offense we, and a ton of schools, run, and it allows for an evening-up with speed vs the schools that get the big guys. I have heard this "run up the middle" talk the last couple of weeks, but this isn't Tomey calling a HB dive. It is a QB seeing where things are unbalanced and deciding which of 3 options works best.

I think Solomon has had the run hit out of him. But he was never built to be a running QB. Plenty of successful spread option QBs who, like RBs, take hits but mostly keep when the edge is open and go down at the end of the run if possible. We aren't unique in running this offense.

[EVCat]

I think RR has made some mistakes like not addressing defensive recruiting earlier and flirting with other programs which had to hurt recruiting.

I just don't think he could have fired Casteel after a Fiesta Bowl 10-4 season with a defensive efficiency in the 30s. That was year 3. I don't see how he could have pulled the trigger earlier, other than to not pull the trigger initially.

I agree his public flirtations were damaging. And this is the one thing I hold against him...

[Harvey Specter]

I think when injuries are a recurring theme you have to ask if it is more than just bad luck...

Could it be poor strength & conditioning? Maybe too much recruiting undersized players? Maybe it is the pace of play? I think those are fair questions to ask... even if some do not.

For all his "Our personnel is great except they are undersized and slow" shtick when he arrived... the one season he had that was good (and it was vey good) fielded a roster of players that were primarily inherited from that previous regime that "left the cupboard bare".

He is a very charismatic dude and the consummate politician. Should he get canned after this season under any circumstances? No.

If we shit the bed this year and end up with a losing conference record next year? I am of the opinion that under those circumstances we need to start over. Yet again.

Nothing personal, but I am not making excuses for a guy getting paid what he is with one good year on the backbone of a roster he inherited, and poked fun at. And if Va Tech/ So Car had offered him something more than parity with his current salary, I have no doubt he would be gone. Others may disagree... None of us know for sure.

We need to see how the season and beyond plays out... But If CU wins the south, and my money is on them at this point, I would say McIntyre has done a much better job for far less money than RR has, while walking into a MUCH tougher situation.

That program has been beyond putrid for years... And while their W-L results have not been impressive until '16, they have made clearly visible progress each season and their trajectory is from the lower left to upper right. We have been in flux, with our peak in a season when RR's first real recruiting class were true freshman. Right now we are heading in the wrong direction.

Others will disagree, and that is fair. But i am done listening to him and am more interested in watching his team's, at the moment I am less than impressed...

This ridiculous phenomenon where coaches can underperform and buy themselves and extra 3 years (not to mention a few million $) by blaming/ firing those beneath them (who hired them in the first place?) is nauseating. The buck stops with the guy at the top who gets rich regardless of his organization performs.

While they run around telling everyone who will listen they have EARNED every penny they are paid. Right.

Head coaches should not be given any more lenience than the staff's that work under them, and probably deserve less - because they have ultimate control. Period.

[CalStateTempe]

It is great to have you back HS.