I realize we aren't going to get Duval and Diallo but I thought, at the very least, we'd be in it for McCoy until he signs.
Vanderbilt seems destined for TCU due to family connection, plus if you're Arizona you can never feel confident landing any kid from Texas...who will actually show up on campus.
All the momentum for McCoy has been anywhere else, but Arizona. Maybe we can get back in there, but no reason to feel remotely confident now.
I realize we aren't going to get Duval and Diallo but I thought, at the very least, we'd be in it for McCoy until he signs.
Vanderbilt seems destined for TCU due to family connection, plus if you're Arizona you can never feel confident landing any kid from Texas...who will actually show up on campus.
All the momentum for McCoy has been anywhere else, but Arizona. Maybe we can get back in there, but no reason to feel remotely confident now.
So you are essentially saying that we are out of the running for anyone who is any good.
I realize we aren't going to get Duval and Diallo but I thought, at the very least, we'd be in it for McCoy until he signs.
Vanderbilt seems destined for TCU due to family connection, plus if you're Arizona you can never feel confident landing any kid from Texas...who will actually show up on campus.
All the momentum for McCoy has been anywhere else, but Arizona. Maybe we can get back in there, but no reason to feel remotely confident now.
So you are essentially saying that we are out of the running for anyone who is any good.
Why would you really like a bubble team? Don't you have standards?
P.S. I couldn't quote BC97 because I have him blocked. Which doesn't prevent me from seeing his posts when I'm not signed in, this time I just had to reply.
P.P.S. Maybe if everyone blocked him, the world would be a better place?
I assume anyone who is an Arizona fan wants Bowen.
It's this ridiculous talk, now being backed away from, that a failure to sign him would be a critical situation for this class and team. Apparently the #3 class in the country with 4 top 80 players, including players that can play between them all 5 positions, is not "elite" enough.
Of course, if Bowen signed and we were suddenly in on McCoy again or it heated up, or Duvall (not happening), those players would be "critical" using BC97 logic, and we'd be less than elite if we failed to sign them, because that's what Duke and Kentucky do. This is the logic to justify never being satisfied. If we could just get Ayton...if we could just get Randolph...sure hope we can actually close on Lee...Barcello isn't a top 5 PG so that's no good...if we could just get Bowen.
It never ends. Meanwhile, outside of one class that actually fell apart with Jennings, Lute never had anything near the #1 class in the land. What Miller is doing recruiting-wise is unprecedented at Arizona, and at virtually any school not named Kentucky/Duke. Some horrible breaks (Ashley's injury, Jerrett's odd decision to go pro that could have filled in for Ashley's injury, one of the oddest offensive foul calls in an endgame ever), some amazing efforts (UW's 3 point shooting in 2015), and a ball halfway down the cylinder (2011) separate Miller from what would be coaching immortality at a very young age. From "God, if Nic Wise doesn't come back, we have no team" to 3 Elite Eights in 5 years, built upon a mix of early scrambling, some players already leaning UA or X's way, some chance taking (Josiah, etc), then settling into our current run of one-and-done elites mixed with long term players has our program in fantastic shape. This year has been bizarre, sad, frustrating...all of it in losing 4 players we thought would be logging top minutes just 6 or 7 months ago, yet because of this amazing base Miller has built, we are still competing.
And this guy wants to talk about luxuries like signing a 5th player in a single class that is a top 3 class as currently constructed, at a position we have excellent returning players and incoming recruits to count on next year, as if they are class critical.
I get that particular poster is a slow play troll...and it wouldn't bug me so much if I didn't actually hear this stupid shit among the less-informed fan base. This digging into Miller, constantly looking for signs of slippage, of fatal fault. Last year, it was "there will be no class of 2016...we are screwed!" Now, it is "we might not (but still might) sign a 5th elite player in the class of 2017 at a wing position with Alkins, Simmons, Randolph and Barcello and stretch 3 help from Pinder and maybe even Smith.....NOOOOOOOO!!!! (and Miller sucks because he only advanced 3 rounds 3 times in 5 years ,not 4)." It's exhausting, and borne of revisionist history and no sense of what it is we are actually doing here compared to the vast majority of the nation.
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Can we sell Bowen like we need to given our current roster situation?
Probably not, given that he's a strong MSU lean.
Do you ever have one positive thing to say?
Yes. Really like this team.
And our class is solid without Bowen. But if you want to reach that elite threshold next season, you need Bowen.
We have a guy called a once in a generation type player by the coach and the favorite to be the 1st pick in the draft coming in , but a kid that's not even starting if Kobi and Rawle returns is the guy who tips the elite scale lol
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Just hope we can land Bowen and / or McCoy now.....feel like this class isn't finished yet and if this year has taught us anything is that we can't be too deep....especially now and before we know how many will leave early next year.
Bangkok Wildcat wrote:Wow! Nice ChiCat, thanks for posting.
Just hope we can land Bowen and / or McCoy now.....feel like this class isn't finished yet and if this year has taught us anything is that we can't be too deep....especially now and before we know how many will leave early next year.
Agreed. Or else we're doomed. DOOMED I say!
'A parent is the one person who is supposed to make their kid think they can do anything. Says they're beautiful even when they're ugly. Thinks they're smart even when they go to Arizona State.' -- Jack Donaghy
Randolph is one of those kids who you hope turns into an upperclassman. If he and Lee stick it out, both those guys can be mainstays as a junior/senior.
dcZONAfan wrote:Why would you really like a bubble team? Don't you have standards?
A 10-2 Arizona team thats ranked in the top 20 is a bubble team?
Yeah dude you're a little behind on things if you think I was being serious
Yeah. We're pretty much a CBI lock at this point.
Oh, do they take sub-.500 teams?
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Randolph is one of those kids who you hope turns into an upperclassman. If he and Lee stick it out, both those guys can be mainstays as a junior/senior.
He's underranked IMO. Dude has athleticism, size, speed, and can shoot. I don't see more than two years of college in his future honestly.
The latest rumor regarding the five-star forward who is currently playing high school ball for La Lumiere is that Arizona has jumped to the forefront. Everyone is talking about how he likes what the Wildcats have to offer and the momentum may be swinging in that direction.
The latest rumor regarding the five-star forward who is currently playing high school ball for La Lumiere is that Arizona has jumped to the forefront. Everyone is talking about how he likes what the Wildcats have to offer and the momentum may be swinging in that direction.
Much more worried about Texas than MSU right now as competition.
Bench: CC, DS, KP, IL, BR, AB. And this assumes AT and LM are gone.
If BB comes, our lineup is flat out ridiculous. And even if he doesn't, we're still mildly ridiculous.
You don't see any chance Simmons or Alkins leaves? I hope they stay, but with the amount of playing time they are getting I could see one or both of them considering declaring.
If we get BB, miller must be confident one of KS,RA, or AT is leaving.
It's interesting because nowhere are any of the 3 first round projections for the next draft.
Then again I don't think anyone would begrudge AT if he was fed up w the NCAA bullshit and didn't want to risk another year of fuckery from them. Sort of like how no one blamed Bayless for leaving cuz of the clusterfuck KON had going on, different circumstances but same idea in why would I go back to more BS.
Also if AT comes back and starts destroying teams he could certainly work his way into the back end of the first round.
As it stands now, we will have 13 players if no one leaves early. If BB comes, somebody (LM or AT) will have to leave or have a transfer. Considering LM is 90% gone, I think we r fine to take one more. I think after BB u wait and maybe take a transfer after the draft when u find out how many leave early
Miller is playing the odds that at least one of them are leaving, which is smart because that is what history has shown him. He obviously knows things we don't as well. Worst case scenario, things are a little crowded on the wing, a "problem" we discussed and debated ad nauseam months back, but look at how things turned out..
Oh I'm agreeing w u 1000%. And agree w miller. Things will work themselves out. BB is a stud, u get him if u can. It's obvious he was option 1B w Lonnie being 1A and after walker went to Miami we put full court press on BB.
I personally believe LM and AT leave assuming AT comes back and shows what I think he's gonna show. Then maybe Miller looks for a grad transfer to fill out 13 ship. Or we go w 12 which SHOULD be plenty. Then again we were supposed to have 12 this year and look how that turned out. I remember Miller talking about being so loaded at guard and wing we were gonna run some Warriors-esque 4 guards/wings and 1 big so we could get Trier/Ferguson/Ray/Rawle/Kobi/Kadeem/PJC could get on the court for ample minutes.
Now we have Lauri playing the 2 because only 3 of those 7 are playing right now. My how things can change lol.
rgdeuce wrote:Miller is playing the odds that at least one of them are leaving, which is smart because that is what history has shown him. He obviously knows things we don't as well. Worst case scenario, things are a little crowded on the wing, a "problem" we discussed and debated ad nauseam months back, but look at how things turned out..
I would expect that by the time Bowen commits anywhere, Miller will have a good idea whether some combo of AT/KS/RA is leaving. If they all stay, I'd be shocked if we were an option for Bowen, but it's certainly likely at least one and maybe two would leave.
No inside info and clearly looking from the outside in, but I would think CSM is planning on having only 1 of 3 and maybe none of AT/KS/RA.
AT: Seemed like AT was a whisker from going this past year. Hard to believe what he has gone through changes his mindset. But certainly possible.
RA: I have a recollection that the feeling about RA was that he is older for his class and had the mindset to go pro. Maybe he is liking college more than he thought and sees what he needs to work on to be a successful pro.
KS: Seemed the most likely to return at the beginning of the season. However the added playing time and glimpses of his upside might convince him/and/or a scout he is ready.
If LM goes, then we would be at 13 scholarship players. So either Talbott Denny does not come back for another year or someone is moving on.
Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
baycat93 wrote:No inside info and clearly looking from the outside in, but I would think CSM is planning on having only 1 of 3 and maybe none of AT/KS/RA.
AT: Seemed like AT was a whisker from going this past year. Hard to believe what he has gone through changes his mindset. But certainly possible.
RA: I have a recollection that the feeling about RA was that he is older for his class and had the mindset to go pro. Maybe he is liking college more than he thought and sees what he needs to work on to be a successful pro.
KS: Seemed the most likely to return at the beginning of the season. However the added playing time and glimpses of his upside might convince him/and/or a scout he is ready.
If LM goes, then we would be at 13 scholarship players. So either Talbott Denny does not come back for another year or someone is moving on.
I posted somewhere else, but both Zo and Rawle are projected in 2018 and Kobi is not in 17 or 18 in the latest Draftexpress.
The suspension stunts any momentum Zo might have had. He can get it back. Will he?
This is a very deep draft. Kobi and Rawle are good, but a guy like Grayson Allen, who's been kicking it in in college for 3 years is a late first rounder. Allen's been an All-American level guy, so if Rawle and/or Kobi has any hope of first round, things must get rolling.
baycat93 wrote:No inside info and clearly looking from the outside in, but I would think CSM is planning on having only 1 of 3 and maybe none of AT/KS/RA.
AT: Seemed like AT was a whisker from going this past year. Hard to believe what he has gone through changes his mindset. But certainly possible.
RA: I have a recollection that the feeling about RA was that he is older for his class and had the mindset to go pro. Maybe he is liking college more than he thought and sees what he needs to work on to be a successful pro.
KS: Seemed the most likely to return at the beginning of the season. However the added playing time and glimpses of his upside might convince him/and/or a scout he is ready.
If LM goes, then we would be at 13 scholarship players. So either Talbott Denny does not come back for another year or someone is moving on.
I posted somewhere else, but both Zo and Rawle are projected in 2018 and Kobi is not in 17 or 18 in the latest Draftexpress.
The suspension stunts any momentum Zo might have had. He can get it back. Will he?
This is a very deep draft. Kobi and Rawle are good, but a guy like Grayson Allen, who's been kicking it in in college for 3 years is a late first rounder. Allen's been an All-American level guy, so if Rawle and/or Kobi has any hope of first round, things must get rolling.
Like I said, these next 3-4 months should be interesting to watch unfold. Both on the court and on recruiting trail.
I like where we are at though. We seem to have contingencies for worst case unless all 4 of LM/AT/RA/KS leave and I just don't see that happening.
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If we get BB i would be (PLEASANTLY) surprised if it was more than 1. In that scenario I would probably prefer Kobi as the returnee. A 3rd season of AT feels like the kind of luck only Duke and Kansas enjoy.
That would have a lot of experience at PG, a potential volume scorer in KS who can get to the rim and the line, and a superstar at PF. Then you fill in with whomever emerges(ie can play defense) in Dylan Smith, Brandon Randolph and BBowen.
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If it does, Arizona will recover and legitimately compete for a Pac 12 title like it does every year.
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If we get BB i would be (PLEASANTLY) surprised if it was more than 1. In that scenario I would probably prefer Kobi as the returnee. A 3rd season of AT feels like the kind of luck only Duke and Kansas enjoy.
That would have a lot of experience at PG, a potential volume scorer in KS who can get to the rim and the line, and a superstar at PF. Then you fill in with whomever emerges(ie can play defense) in Dylan Smith, Brandon Randolph and BBowen.
I think the likelihood is much greater Alkins is back than Simmons. Of course returning both isn't out of the question too, but Kobi is the higher draft pick due to potential if anyone is going to leave early in this loaded draft class.
As far as Bowen goes he gives us a dimension at the 3 and 4 that we won't have without him.
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If it does, Arizona will recover and legitimately compete for a Pac 12 title like it does every year.
It's a down year. Every year.
We haven't even won a single game in the 2017-18 schedule. It's all falling apart.
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If it does, Arizona will recover and legitimately compete for a Pac 12 title like it does every year.
It's a down year. Every year.
We haven't even won a single game in the 2017-18 schedule. It's all falling apart.
We'll be okay, SS. I'm confident we'll win some games in 2017-18. Not many, but some.
I don't think anyone is going to leave out of this group that is not a 1st round projected. Once, we had one player that was delusional in Grant Jerrett. But he also carried a pretty special skill set for his size that made him potentially remarkable beyond his college output, the kind of chance a team might take at the end of the first round.
A thin combo guard shooting 42% from the field who hasn't shown the "combo" part of that combo designation is not going to get special consideration.
A 6'5" 2/3 wing that is streaky from college range that uses his strength as an advantage at the college level but is average sized at the next level is not going to get special consideration.
I like both players. Both have abilities that might make them legitimate NBA prospects in the coming year or three. But neither one looks the least bit like a one-and-done. In our time under Miller, we have had one player leave after one or two years that wasn't clearly a 1st round pick, and, again, Jerrett had that potential stretch 4 set of skills that the NBA covets. We love them, and they are playing well for freshmen, but there is nothing special about Kobi or Rawle's size or skill set for their presumptive positions that would suggest they would be a 1st round pick.
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If we get BB i would be (PLEASANTLY) surprised if it was more than 1. In that scenario I would probably prefer Kobi as the returnee. A 3rd season of AT feels like the kind of luck only Duke and Kansas enjoy.
That would have a lot of experience at PG, a potential volume scorer in KS who can get to the rim and the line, and a superstar at PF. Then you fill in with whomever emerges(ie can play defense) in Dylan Smith, Brandon Randolph and BBowen.
I think the likelihood is much greater Alkins is back than Simmons. Of course returning both isn't out of the question too, but Kobi is the higher draft pick due to potential if anyone is going to leave early in this loaded draft class.
As far as Bowen goes he gives us a dimension at the 3 and 4 that we won't have without him.
Totally agree on Bowen. We would have no on the roster like him. Much like Ferguson would have provided this year. Hell when did we last have a true long scoring wing?
If RA and KS are both back, Ayton shows up on campus. Wow. Next year will be pretty impressive on paper!!
Beachcat97 wrote:Losing AT, KS, and RA would be terrible. Would significantly weaken our prospects for next season, even with this stellar class. We really need two back.
If it does, Arizona will recover and legitimately compete for a Pac 12 title like it does every year.
It's a down year. Every year.
We haven't even won a single game in the 2017-18 schedule. It's all falling apart.
We'll be okay, SS. I'm confident we'll win some games in 2017-18. Not many, but some.
