Politics

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:02 pm

Just a quick note:

Having come out of one of the weirdest election seasons in history, and because we have very active politics/general discussion areas on this site, from time to time politics may leak into sports threads, or there will be sports threads with political undertones.

If for any reason you feel like political posts or thoughts are derailing a thread, becoming too widespread, or in any other way limiting your enjoyment of this board, please either report the posts in question or PM a moderator for assistance.

While the lower boards may not be everyone's cup of tea, the upper boards are absolutely for everyone's enjoyment and use. If anything is hindering that enjoyment or making them unusable, please bring it to the admin's attention immediately and it will get fixed or at least we can discuss what's going on and best practices moving forward.

Thanks,

Justin

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:29 am

Very good Chi, thanks.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:37 am

Well I would Like to find a way to reopen the F ASSU thread. Maybe you could move those posts to one of the political threads or just delete them.

Hate to think one of our best threads and one we all agree with its premise is now locked. None of it bothered me and oh, F ASSU

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:37 am

OK, I created a new topic on the PRB board and moved all overtly political posts into that new topic and unlocked the thread on the Basketball board.

Let me know if I missed any posts that anyone think belong in PRB.

The irony is, well.... just take a look at which post starts out the PRB thread.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:42 am

Well done Chi, well done

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:18 pm

I just saw the recent activity in the Duke thread. I think the problem is that the rule couldn't just be no politics on the upper boards. It would have to be no politics, and no mention of Trump's name. For example, I just mentioned his name, and my post isn't political, but I've seen good reason to believe that if I posted this text in the basketball or football board, it would be followed by political discussion that many posters have said they don't want to encounter on a basketball or football board.

The world has changed, and that change has accelerated in the past week. Lines have blurred. So most of all, I'd just suggest we go easy on one another as we try to work through the transition into what everything is going to look moving forward. This board and a lot of things we've taken for granted could become unrecognizable. We probably have to go through some growing pains while we figure this all out. To demand that we uniformly carry on as if everything were the same might just be the worst thing we can do. 20th century history taught us that much.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:27 pm

As far as the duke thread...I removed the tweet referencing the presidents name. I realize that it came under the guise of something "political". But if anybody thinks that was about politics, it wasn't. It was a joke about Duke.

If a poster I've upset wants to follow me around the board to pick fights, that's fine...and a different issue.

I will leave any references to anything political in the appropriate threads as I can see how some are sensitive to even a slight joke.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:21 pm

Chicat wrote:Just a quick note:

Having come out of one of the weirdest election seasons in history, and because we have very active politics/general discussion areas on this site, from time to time politics may leak into sports threads, or there will be sports threads with political undertones.

If for any reason you feel like political posts or thoughts are derailing a thread, becoming too widespread, or in any other way limiting your enjoyment of this board, please either report the posts in question or PM a moderator for assistance.

While the lower boards may not be everyone's cup of tea, the upper boards are absolutely for everyone's enjoyment and use. If anything is hindering that enjoyment or making them unusable, please bring it to the admin's attention immediately and it will get fixed or at least we can discuss what's going on and best practices moving forward.

Thanks,

Justin

Just saw this.....Noted with my sincerest appreciation! This is going to be a special year IMHO and really want to enjoy the ride with ALL my fellow Cat fans. Bear Down, Jeff

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:08 pm

Olsondogg wrote:As far as the duke thread...I removed the tweet referencing the presidents name. I realize that it came under the guise of something "political". But if anybody thinks that was about politics, it wasn't. It was a joke about Duke.

It's hard because Trump is known for so much besides the fact of the office he now holds. Lines are blurred. He's famous for things like that recorded bus conversation that gives rise jokes tweeted across the internet, which aren't political jokes. When besides Reagan have we ever had a president widely known for non-political things before occupying the White House? Except Reagan was known for acting in movies.

Trump does things like repeatedly state outright lies about things like inaugural crowds and voter fraud, which become headline news stories not for their clear political nature, but for an apparent level of personal insecurity and narcissism that are chilling in head of a state. We've never really faced having someone whose background and actions are so remarkable while we have to avoid remarking on them because of the partisan accusation that to do so is politicizing.

It would like learning not to remark about a naked student body president who's in your astronomy course. "He's our student body president! Don't mention him! He's unclothed but he wears sneakers!"

We're going to have to figure this out.

"It's not too hard to figure out," somebody will retort. "Don't mention his name." It will all be normal.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:12 pm

thanks to the admins for being proactive and promoting community & inclusion here. there's a reason why this is the best UofA fansite and y'all are doing a great job, for real.

to @Longhorned 's point, it is becoming increasingly difficult, if not close to impossible to disentangle trump, trumpisms, and current politics from the cultural zeitgeist; sports talk not excepted. i mean, i get that many turn to sports as a respite from "real life", but so many of the political references here are rooted in a prominent national figure who relies heavily on bombast and goes out of his way to promote his brand and generate chatter that, topically, touches all of our lives in some manner. and i think much of the political rhetoric that slips into our everyday fanchatter actually comes from a place of deep anxiety & concern for ourselves, our family & friends, our country, our world. so of course people are having a tough time keeping a lid on it.

i don't really have a huge issue with the way it is being handled here but would caution against being too parsimonious when it comes to permissible content, because it's a hell of a slippery slope. there's stuff posted to the upper boards all the time that disparage and offend women, members of the LGBT community, the economically disadvantaged, etc. and are far worse than "politics". i mean, there are user avatars that are more offensive than the political-talk. not trying to call out anyone here because i'm guilty of posting plenty of stupid and offensive shit. but i'm not saying we need to ban or restrict people / posts to their own corner, either.

at some point, we're going to need to learn to separate insult from intent; malice from reasonable discourse. we're all part of the same wildcat family and can have a healthy exchange of ideas without resorting to personal attacks. likewise, i hope we can also be respectful toward one another and the community when others put us in check and say we're taking it too far.

the irony, imo, is that we regularly -- if not eagerly -- engage with actual trolls like enflamo, r+f, cordera, etc. when they shit on our program, and roll with their punches when they hurl insults at Arizona athletics... but then freak out when a fellow UofA fan references the t-word.

let's use our common sense and not head down a steep and treacherous path.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:34 pm

Awesome post, dirtbags. Thank you. I hope we're able to take your observations to heart.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:48 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:O.k. Some things.

1) I did some heavy-handed moderating (cause I'm tired, and I'm lazy) and instead of editing posts for content, i just deleted everything after LH's post.
2) That type of post was discussed on the politics board, and was determined to be o.k. It's a click through link within this very website (not a link somewhere else) to the politics section where it can be further discussed. If you'd like to chime in on whether you think even such limited posts with links should be allowed in the so-called "upper" boards, then by all means join the discussion down there in the "lower" board. If at some future time it is determined that such posts shouldn't be allowed, LH's post that precedes mine can be deleted as needed.

Fair enough, POM... I am not going to venture to the lower boards because I do not come here to discuss politics.

But if I ever want to, I'll just dress up a wolf in sheep's clothing and say "What? No I am not..."

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:37 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:O.k. Some things.

1) I did some heavy-handed moderating (cause I'm tired, and I'm lazy) and instead of editing posts for content, i just deleted everything after LH's post.
2) That type of post was discussed on the politics board, and was determined to be o.k. It's a click through link within this very website (not a link somewhere else) to the politics section where it can be further discussed. If you'd like to chime in on whether you think even such limited posts with links should be allowed in the so-called "upper" boards, then by all means join the discussion down there in the "lower" board. If at some future time it is determined that such posts shouldn't be allowed, LH's post that precedes mine can be deleted as needed.

Thanks Piece of Meat! Much appreciated. Bear Down.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:36 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:O.k. Some things.

1) I did some heavy-handed moderating (cause I'm tired, and I'm lazy) and instead of editing posts for content, i just deleted everything after LH's post.
2) That type of post was discussed on the politics board, and was determined to be o.k. It's a click through link within this very website (not a link somewhere else) to the politics section where it can be further discussed. If you'd like to chime in on whether you think even such limited posts with links should be allowed in the so-called "upper" boards, then by all means join the discussion down there in the "lower" board. If at some future time it is determined that such posts shouldn't be allowed, LH's post that precedes mine can be deleted as needed.

"O.k. Some things."

POM fwiw I agree.

While I like and agree with RHJ's view on this, I see the "upper" boards as an environment for fun and entertainment discussing Wildcat sports/ history. Many
knowledgeable posters here. These good times also means that I do not have to think or argue political issues. It should remain a sports discussion forum. (my view
anyway)

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:48 am

Longhorned wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Chicat wrote:I don't question that a column about a UA sports figure belongs in their thread, but I have to take into account where the conversation will likely go and whether posters will be able to keep it about that player specifically as opposed to delving deeply into the overall political subject.
But if so, shouldn't the posts that abandon the player and delve into the overall subject as detached from the player be deleted, rather than the initial post about the player?
I think you're asking a lot of the mods. A conversation can quickly devolve into all kinds of things and then you'll have posters pissed, threatening to leave the board, attacking personally, etc. and by the time a mod notices any editing will be too little, too late.

If you really think RHJ's stance should be posted in his thread, you can give a simple headline ("Rondae's thoughts on the Muslim travel ban") and then link to where you posted it on the politics board. Would save the mods a ton of hassle in my opinion and should limit the conversation on the sports board.
Okay, thanks, I will. Still, you're right about the predictable trajectory. But the function of that outrage (followed by far-right political diatribes with vociferous shaming of the original post as justification for the diatribes) is to normalize a community's banishment of views contrary to the far right. This is how public spaces get taken over by aggressive, far-right sentiment held by a minority of its members.

The "c'mon, it's just a sports message board" sentiment should take my post count into account. If the far right dictates the parameters of every place we spend our time in, it's going to be hard to ever get back to the real normal.

I'm not sure what was said/posted but PieceOfMeat had to delete no less than NINE responses to your post in the Rondae thread about his thoughts on the Muslim ban. This solidifies that politics do not belong on the upper boards in any fashion, no matter what you may think about creeping censorship or what the far right dictates. This is a community of, for, and by sports fans, not politically awakened people who also enjoy talking sports.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:04 am

Ridiculous

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:31 am

Just for clarification so I don't break the rules, the upper boards are only to discuss players as meat that do cool tricks in context of a sport? If they have opinions about things outside of the sport that should be relegated elsewhere disconnected from their athletic ability?

I think it's a disservice to Rondae to have this be a thread where we talk about things like how many points he scored but we can't discuss his thoughts on politics or religion.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:35 am

Ha fine move my post to someplace where no one will ever read it.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:38 am

Should posts about Kadeem going home and meeting his daughter for the first time be deleted from his player thread? Those have nothing to do with basketball?

Or the thread made to share the article about Steve Kerr's family history? A lot more politics than basketball there.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:41 am

baconus66 wrote:Just for clarification so I don't break the rules, the upper boards are only to discuss players as meat that do cool tricks in context of a sport? If they have opinions about things outside of the sport that should be relegated elsewhere disconnected from their athletic ability?

I think it's a disservice to Rondae to have this be a thread where we talk about things like how many points he scored but we can't discuss his thoughts on politics or religion.

We've received numerous complaints and seen threads go off the rails because of politics. People are very passionate about it and we have a very active politics board which seems to ramp up that passion even further. This doesn't seem to be an issue with any other subject, so for instance if Rondae was to get his own cooking show or appear on an episode of House Hunters, it wouldn't be a problem to post it in the Rondae thread on the basketball board. But what I think many people are asking is that if it's political in nature to leave it on the politics board.

Personally, I thought that posting a short headline and the link to where the discussion was happening on the Politics board would be a good enough compromise. People could see that Rondae expressed a political opinion and they could take the link to discuss it further or they could leave it alone. 9 deleted posts later, it turns out I was wrong. I guess just the sight of Rondae having a political opinion was too much for some people to take.

In any case, I think what we should all strive for is a community that welcomes everyone and dissuades no one from being active. In this day and age of highly charged politics invading what seems like every corner of our society, it might be impossible to keep politics from creeping into sports discussions. That will remain to be seen. But in the meantime the Mods are at least going to try and make everyone happy. Maybe it won't work for everyone, but we're at least going to try. We just ask that you not purposefully make our job harder.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:46 am

You guys are doing a great job

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:56 am

Chicat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:Just for clarification so I don't break the rules, the upper boards are only to discuss players as meat that do cool tricks in context of a sport? If they have opinions about things outside of the sport that should be relegated elsewhere disconnected from their athletic ability?

I think it's a disservice to Rondae to have this be a thread where we talk about things like how many points he scored but we can't discuss his thoughts on politics or religion.
I guess just the sight of Rondae having a political opinion was too much for some people to take.

That seems like those individuals problem. Why should this forum try to protect them from differing opinions.

However fucked up college athletics may be these are still STUDENT-athletes at a UNIVERSITY. They should come here not only to win games, but to become informed humans able to create and articulate opinions about things like politics and religion. I think it should be celebrated that Rondae had the intelligence and courage to speak out about something like this and it is disrespectful for us to only openly discuss his basketball abilities and try to hide his political opinions.

This season Rich Rod said some things I strongly disagreed with about the National Anthem protests, but had that been posted in his thread in the upper board (don't remember if it actually was or not) I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I may openly argue against it.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:57 am

baconus66 wrote:Just for clarification so I don't break the rules, the upper boards are only to discuss players as meat that do cool tricks in context of a sport? If they have opinions about things outside of the sport that should be relegated elsewhere disconnected from their athletic ability?

I think it's a disservice to Rondae to have this be a thread where we talk about things like how many points he scored but we can't discuss his thoughts on politics or religion.

I completely agree with your point here... but as a mod... I agree in trying to separate the sports and politics in this message board especially during this time. People are getting too heated and too personal.

BearDownWildcats currently is constructed by a wonderful but small in number community. We are looking to grow and not shrink right now and if we are going to error right now, it's going to be on the side of inclusion

Hope you understand the tough spots us mods are in

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:02 am

CalStateTempe wrote:You guys are doing a great job

Yes. Agree totally. fwiw.

While I enjoy the discussions in the sports forums, I don't want to read about politics or ruin good sports conversations/ banter with potential argumentative discourse regarding political issues. For me, sports is an escape from current events.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:07 am

baconus66 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:Just for clarification so I don't break the rules, the upper boards are only to discuss players as meat that do cool tricks in context of a sport? If they have opinions about things outside of the sport that should be relegated elsewhere disconnected from their athletic ability?

I think it's a disservice to Rondae to have this be a thread where we talk about things like how many points he scored but we can't discuss his thoughts on politics or religion.
I guess just the sight of Rondae having a political opinion was too much for some people to take.

That seems like those individuals problem. Why should this forum try to protect them from differing opinions.

However fucked up college athletics may be these are still STUDENT-athletes at a UNIVERSITY. They should come here not only to win games, but to become informed humans able to create and articulate opinions about things like politics and religion. I think it should be celebrated that Rondae had the intelligence and courage to speak out about something like this and it is disrespectful for us to only openly discuss his basketball abilities and try to hide his political opinions.

This season Rich Rod said some things I strongly disagreed with about the National Anthem protests, but had that been posted in his thread in the upper board (don't remember if it actually was or not) I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I may openly argue against it.

No one is trying to hide anything. His opinions were posted on the Politics board and a link to them was posted in his thread. Not once did any mod say that his political opinions could not be discussed. We're just asking that politics be discussed on the politics board. That's why we have one. Should we delete the politics board and let sports threads get polluted and derailed just so nothing is "hidden"?

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:16 am

Chicat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:Just for clarification so I don't break the rules, the upper boards are only to discuss players as meat that do cool tricks in context of a sport? If they have opinions about things outside of the sport that should be relegated elsewhere disconnected from their athletic ability?

I think it's a disservice to Rondae to have this be a thread where we talk about things like how many points he scored but we can't discuss his thoughts on politics or religion.
I guess just the sight of Rondae having a political opinion was too much for some people to take.

That seems like those individuals problem. Why should this forum try to protect them from differing opinions.

However fucked up college athletics may be these are still STUDENT-athletes at a UNIVERSITY. They should come here not only to win games, but to become informed humans able to create and articulate opinions about things like politics and religion. I think it should be celebrated that Rondae had the intelligence and courage to speak out about something like this and it is disrespectful for us to only openly discuss his basketball abilities and try to hide his political opinions.

This season Rich Rod said some things I strongly disagreed with about the National Anthem protests, but had that been posted in his thread in the upper board (don't remember if it actually was or not) I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I may openly argue against it.
No one is trying to hide anything. His opinions were posted on the Politics board and a link to them was posted in his thread. Not once did any mod say that his political opinions could not be discussed. We're just asking that politics be discussed on the politics board. That's why we have one. Should we delete the politics board and let sports threads get polluted and derailed just so nothing is "hidden"?

I think there is a difference between flooding the sports boards with politics and allowing discussion about a players statements on politics to remain in his player thread.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:17 am

Sports is an escape for me as well but there is just no separating politics from most aspects of our day to day lives any more. There just isn't.

Don't get me wrong, the mods here do a great job and this is the best online community out there.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:30 am

scumdevils86 wrote:Sports is an escape for me as well but there is just no separating politics from most aspects of our day to day lives any more. There just isn't.

Don't get me wrong, the mods here do a great job and this is the best online community out there.

Nor should the separation be made when the discussion is about the basic human rights and their violation.

And for the record I'm not trying to attack any of the mods. I understand why they have made the decision they have, I just happen to believe its the wrong decision. Openness and discussion are always better than trying to prevent that discussion to spare someones feelings.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:33 am

baconus66 wrote:I think there is a difference between flooding the sports boards with politics and allowing discussion about a players statements on politics to remain in his player thread.

I understand that difference, but if you think the 9 posts PieceOfMeat had to delete from the Rondae thread were a calm rational discussion of Rondae's statement, you're wrong. And if you think people can discuss a particular player's political opinions without allowing the topic to derail into a full blown political argument that has nothing to do with that player, once again, I'm sorry to say, you're wrong. And if you think that other posters and lurkers will peek in on that thread, see a bunch of political bickering that has nothing to do with Rondae and think, "Well, it started out as a discussion about RHJ, so no big deal that one poster called another a 'snowflake' and the other responded by calling him a 'fascist'", well . . . you're 0 for 3.

scumdevils86 wrote:Sports is an escape for me as well but there is just no separating politics from most aspects of our day to day lives any more. There just isn't.

Don't get me wrong, the mods here do a great job and this is the best online community out there.

If you'd like to keep this the best online community out there and you respect the job the mods do, then we're asking you to do exactly what you claim is impossible in your first sentence. If you just have to post political arguments on the upper boards, if there is something deep down inside you that won't allow you to post those same thoughts on the politics board only, then I don't know what to tell you, but it would seem to be a personal problem and not one of the larger community.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:35 am

nm

Did not see Chi's response above.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:39 am

baconus66 wrote:Nor should the separation be made when the discussion is about the basic human rights and their violation.

And for the record I'm not trying to attack any of the mods. I understand why they have made the decision they have, I just happen to believe its the wrong decision. Openness and discussion are always better than trying to prevent that discussion to spare someones feelings.

Once again, we're not trying to prevent any type of discussion. Wander down to the General Discussion, Politics, and Media forums from time to time and you'll see that there is no topic that is off limits. There is absolutely no censorship of any kind on the Politics board except there was one time when a poster who is now banned posted some extremely graphic images of murder victims. Other than that, it has been a unmoderated forum. Feel free to post whatever you want about Rondae's political opinions right there.

So, just to recap, no one is censoring political speech. We're just asking you to keep it on the politics board. Much like we ask that UCLA discussion gets posted on the Arch-Rivals board or pro-football/pro-basketball discussion gets posted on those boards.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:48 am

The separation is what bothers me.

It's too close to the "shut up and play" mentality that you see so often in music and sports from fans. It's disrespectful to the players as human beings to try to separate their athletic abilities from their thoughts

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:53 am

baconus66 wrote:The separation is what bothers me.

Does it also bother you that we have arch rivals and pro sports forums?

baconus66 wrote:It's too close to the "shut up and play" mentality that you see so often in music and sports from fans. It's disrespectful to the players as human beings to try to separate their athletic abilities from their thoughts

No one is disrespecting Rondae at all. That pisses me off that you would think that's what the mods are trying to do.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:00 am

Chicat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:The separation is what bothers me.
Does it also bother you that we have arch rivals and pro sports forums?

baconus66 wrote:It's too close to the "shut up and play" mentality that you see so often in music and sports from fans. It's disrespectful to the players as human beings to try to separate their athletic abilities from their thoughts
No one is disrespecting Rondae at all. That pisses me off that you would think that's what the mods are trying to do.

Well in that case why is Rondae's thread in Arizona Basketball at all? Or TJ's? Shouldn't those be in NBA forum? Or at least the discussion about their NBA careers should be.

And I don't think you're intentionally trying to disrespect Rondae, but I do think it's a side effect of the decision that has been made. At the end of the day moving that discussion to the politics thread reduces the number of people that will read what he said.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:01 am

Baconus... I (And I suspect the other mods here as well) hate the "shut up and play" mentality. This is why I thought a new RHJ thread in the politics board should have been started. (and linked in the sports RHJ thread) We are all in favor of discussing it.

Bottom line, we're never going to make everyone happy... but we do try!

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:05 am

Maybe as a compromise instead of

Longhorned wrote:Rondae's thoughts on the Muslim travel ban can be found here: http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... 41#p236141" target="_blank

Have something like

Longhorned wrote:Rondae's thoughts on the Muslim travel ban are:
“We try to teach people not to point the finger, blame a whole [group]. You can’t judge a whole group by one’s actions at the end of the day. And I feel like that’s not right. That’s definitely not right,’’ Hollis-Jefferson said Saturday before they faced the Timberwolves. “You can’t speak for all Muslims, because all Muslims’ hearts aren’t like that. Most of them are pure, really believe in a different way and a different livelihood.”

“This is kind of hard. My bad. This is kind of touching … just being a part of that community and a part of that family,’’ Hollis-Jefferson said. “I feel like this should definitely be handled differently, and I feel like more people should definitely speak up and act on it just because it’s BS at the end of the day.”

To discuss these thoughts go here:
http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... 41#p236141" target="_blank

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:10 am

baconus66 wrote:
Chicat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:The separation is what bothers me.
Does it also bother you that we have arch rivals and pro sports forums?

baconus66 wrote:It's too close to the "shut up and play" mentality that you see so often in music and sports from fans. It's disrespectful to the players as human beings to try to separate their athletic abilities from their thoughts
No one is disrespecting Rondae at all. That pisses me off that you would think that's what the mods are trying to do.
Well in that case why is Rondae's thread in Arizona Basketball at all? Or TJ's? Shouldn't those be in NBA forum? Or at least the discussion about their NBA careers should be.

And I don't think you're intentionally trying to disrespect Rondae, but I do think it's a side effect of the decision that has been made. At the end of the day moving that discussion to the politics thread reduces the number of people that will read what he said.

A) There is a link right there in his thread to the discussion on the politics forum.
B) This isn't the only outlet for Arizona basketball related news and there are other ways for people to see his take.
C) No one disrespected Rondae. Instead this was an attempt to respect posters who have made their feelings known about politics on the upper boards.
D) I find your lack of respect for the job the mods do here to be particularly funny coming from someone whose most frequent contribution is in the RAP threads.

As for your question about the NBA forum, both TJ and RHJ have NBA forum threads, and there is a thread called "Former Cats in the NBA". Will your temper tantrum go away if I spend the next two hours of my life shifting posts back and forth?

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:21 am

I think I have neither been disrespectful nor thrown a temper tantrum.

I have said I disagree with you and explained why that is and I think I've remained fairly civil about it.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:25 am

You're welcome to your disagreement. If you'd like to discuss further how any Mod has disrespected Rondae you can send me or them a private message.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:32 am

You yourself redirected discussion about politics in the upper boards here and I am trying to have that discussion.

Although I guess you are proving your point.

For whatever reason online "I disagree with you" is often read as "I disagree with you, think you're stupid, and your mom is ugly"

I also think it's kinda funny how is the same discussion about making the board open and welcome you then attack my contributions to said board. I've never claimed to be some prolific or even worthwhile poster. But I have read this board and the old board before this since about 2008. I post when I have something to say and enjoy playing RAP. I don't really know how much more you want from me.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:40 am

Like I said, your disagreement has been noted. There are many different people who have raised a number of complaints or issues with how politics is handled on the upper boards and just like theirs, your opinion is valued and will be taken into account.

And as I also said, if you'd like to discuss how I disrespected a man who I have enormous respect for, feel free to contact me privately.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:45 pm

As discussed in the posts above, the alternatives for solving this issue are clear. One possibility, as posters suggest, is that you can delete and move posts that aren’t relevant to Arizona basketball (or football or arch rivals). Alternatively, you can eliminate posts that some members identify as “political,” regardless of clear relevance to Arizona basketball, such as the views of Rondae Hollis Jefferson as published in the sports page of the New York Post.

As reflected above, posters in this very thread know which of these alternatives is reasonable, and which one instead answers to posters who scream loudly while not making a lot of sense. Favoring the loud voices rather than measured tones grounded in reason is a faster way to turn down the screeching noise. Everybody can learn this new rule, whether they agree with it or not. Yelling and drowning out substantive conversations is how one faction of U.S. citizens learned how they could get their way. Appeasement is what they demand. It doesn’t matter whether it’s their own voices that are being political and, paradoxically, censoring.

Maybe Chicat is right, and others are wrong. But the reality is that a poster who has something like half the posts on the site is a temporally unlimited moderator, who settles these questions quickly, and even with angrily delivered official ban warnings when he’s misunderstood. And without apology. We also recently saw a poster get banned without discussion, and then rendered a decision that didn’t reflect the outcome of the vote. This is isn’t how a cooperative is run. That’s a fiefdom. But even if Chicat is right on any given issue, a confidence-inspiring gesture would be for him to step away from the role of moderator on this site, and not just revert to the "send me a pm if you disagree" move. Piece of Meat, for example, showed a very different approach to the RHJ issue than the one that’s already been decided by Chicat is the way forward. And should go without saying that moderators should be able to moderate without the harsh language and angry, overbearing tone that isn’t usually how 40+ year old adults speak to one another.

I don’t know whether such a view will be actually considered in this community, but I’m just one of a number of posters who think that a moderator should be measured in distinguishing between whether a post is on or off topic in its thread. If some posters vociferously insist that certain posts that are inconsistent with their worldview are simply “political” and therefore to be censored, then they should be the ones that learn the necessary modicum of tolerance necessary to have public conversations. The fear that too many posters might leave the board makes for a board that isn’t worth preserving.

Either way, Chicat should probably should some grace and step aside, with much appreciation for his full-time work at this for something like 12 years now.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:17 pm

Cool. I'm out.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:30 pm

May I suggest we take this to a vote by the members of the community.

The question might be..
Whether or not political discussions should be allowed on the sports boards. Also, whether or not mods should have the discretion to move discussions to the political section in order to maintain the integrity of the sports boards.

Just searching for an agreeable solution.

fwiw..
I think Chi's done a great job as a mod over the years.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:57 pm

I'll read this in a bit. I need some context.

I respect both LH and Chi immensely.

Balance is ideal. Albeit, after being called a snowflake in applauding RHJ and basic human dignity and American values by posters at Scout, I'm probably not going to be very objective. I'll do my best, but I was practically typing those responses on Scout with clenched fists.

Not sure how that factors in, but just alerting a bias.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:07 pm

One quick comment is a post on a topic similar to Kerr or RHJ or now Stanley's comments could be posted and then a hyperlink to a politics forum thread on the topic be added...

Not sure this helps.

But we, unlike Scout, do have the luxury of a diversity of forums on a wide range of topics.

While I understand posting in the RHJ thread in the Baskrtball forum, to both acknowledge his opinion, and his mind to construct the opinion, given political topics are never going to just simply be a resting post, but an active post where those in disagreement comment and thus poster in agreement comment and then arguments on non-basketball topics have a life of their own in a forum outside their sphere.

A hyperlink to further discussion may provide a quick fix for debate.

But until humanity is either dead or brainwashed, politics will be combative, no matter how civil it is kept, it's a runaway semitruck. There's no controlling it. Just hopes it doesn't go downhill too quickly.

When that takes place in a non-politics forum, that's a problem.

I'd like to get a summary on why LH is calling for Chi to step aside and why Chi is obliging. Thanks.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:45 pm

Chicat wrote:Cool. I'm out.

Hey Chicat, you and I disagree on a lot BUT I've always respected you and appreciate your work as a Mod....even when you've slapped me down

. Don't let political activists like Longhorned, who continue to push their agendas and divide the board IMHO, run you off.

Please reconsider. Time to put LH, who I used to respect, on the ignore list as he just can't seem to stop his political agenda....sad really but you have certainly lost the moral high ground on this one.....smh.

Thanks to POM, Chicat, Alieberman and all the other mods / contributors / etc. for putting the best damned Arizona fan board out there.

Shame to those who attack them for doing their jobs and trying to keep this board inclusive for us all!

Bear Down and Peace to all true Wildcats.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:49 pm

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:
Chicat wrote:Cool. I'm out.
Hey Chicat, you and I disagree on a lot BUT I've always respected you and appreciate your work as a Mod....even when you've slapped me down . Don't let political activists like Longhorned, who continue to push their agendas and divide the board IMHO, run you off.

Please reconsider. Time to put LH, who I used to respect, on the ignore list as he just can't seem to stop his political agenda....sad really but you have certainly lost the moral high ground on this one.....smh.

Thanks to POM, Chicat, Alieberman and all the other mods / contributors / etc. for putting the best damned Arizona fan board out there.

Shame to those who attack them for doing their jobs and trying to keep this board inclusive for us all!

Bear Down and Peace to all true Wildcats.

How sanctimonious of you

But yes I would like chi to still be here no matter what the disagreement might be. And Longhorned especially because of his smarts and political agenda. Much more than can be said for yourself here.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:11 pm

Kinda sad that even on this board the crazy right wingers are still trying to censor the truth.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:16 pm

Chicat wrote:Cool. I'm out.

Chi,
I don't think you should no longer be a moderator, but I hope your statement is only as a mod, not a poster.
Your contributions are valued.

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