billk78 wrote:Putting aside my obvious bias of being a wildcat fan for a sec.....
I don't see how Trier would benefit from going pro after this year. There are so many kids playing one year of college ball and jumping at the opportunity to get drafted. The majority of them end up in the D league or over in Europe. Why not just continue to develop your game under a coach like Miller while getting your education and competing for a National Championship?
I wish we were able to put some sort of honest program in place to provide these student athletes with some type of counselor/middle man who has nether the college or the NBA's interest at stake. They need better advice. I feel like we are seeing too many careers end early or wasted talent because they aren;t staying long enough to develop.
And this is throughout the entire NCAA, not just here at Zona. Very rarely do you see a one-and-done guy anymore go to the NBA and make an immediate impact. It's just so rare.
Could Derrick Williams and Stanley Johnson have benefitted from one more year at Arizona? I absolutely think so.
How would have Derrick and Stanley benefitted? Derrick was the second pick and hes set for life. Hes not the second pick in many other drafts. Stanley is already one of the pistons best defenders and gets a lot of PT. Gordon is starting in year two. Rondae was starting in year one. Ultimately, these Arizona guys have made the right decisions with a couple of exceptions. They have different goals and want to take differebt paths to get there, not everyone is the same.
Speaking of Derrick Williams...
LeBron James loves UA product Derrick Williams, calls him 'freakish athlete'
EVCat wrote:Pretty funny that Cleveland has the #1 and #2 pick from the 2011 draft, and #2 ended #1's college career.
Cleveland is deserving of the title of NBA Wildcats more than the Warriors these days
If Cleveland hadn't traded Bennett and Wiggins for Love, they would have four #1 picks and a #2 on a single team. That would have to be some sort of record.
Maybe Miller might tell him its just time to move on?
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
No way Zo makes an NBA team if he leaves this year, for sure DLeague at best or Europe. He'd be leaving just because he doesn't like college anymore or would rather just play basketball full time somewhere else and thinks 2 more years of playing under Miller won't make any difference in his basketball skills.
Of course we'd all like to advise these kids to stay 4 years, get an education, develop their skills with professional coaching to increase their odds of actually staying in the NBA and being a contributor there, not just being a pine-rider or bouncing from DLeague back and forth until they eventually head to Europe.
Jefe wrote:Even if hes projected as an early 2nd rounder, theres no way Zo stays. His stock will rise over the next month and even more in the combine
I think that's right, but if his stock rises only enough for the second round, I can't help but think about the option to stay. To me, he isn't a player whose limitations get exposed over time. Instead, he's a player who will show more command of the game with time, like a more talented version of Buddy Hield, who went lottery after his senior year, but would have gone second round after his sophomore year.
Id love for him to stay but I think he's all done with the NCAA.
I don't think he was even projected to go last year and a lot of us thought he was gone. Pages 5-10 of this thread from last year are fun to read again
Jefe wrote:Even if hes projected as an early 2nd rounder, theres no way Zo stays.
So you're saying even if he's projected 2nd round he's going to go pro?
His stock will rise over the next month and even more in the combine
I'm interested in where you would put him at right now, which would govern whether a person would guess whether he would rise or fall from the position you have assigned him.
Jefe wrote:Even if hes projected as an early 2nd rounder, theres no way Zo stays. His stock will rise over the next month and even more in the combine
I don't know. First round is guaranteed money and 2017 is so deep that he is late 2nd to UDFA. 2018 moves you up 10 spots just based on less competition.
I'm not saying he likely stays, I'm saying that he is not an early 2nd projection right now, and 2017-2018 is a huge difference.
SCCats wrote:So you're saying even if he's projected 2nd round he's going to go pro?
Yes, for 3 reasons. He almost left last year, the NCAA shafted him this year and he's good enough to make a Nets, Suns or Lakers roster.
SCCats wrote:I'm interested in where you would put him at right now, which would govern whether a person would guess whether he would rise or fall from the position you have assigned him.
If the Draft was tomorrow, I think he goes between 45 and 50. By the time June rolls around I could see him being drafted somewhere between 28 and 35. He needs some more defensive highlight reels and he needs put on some more body weight. Scouts know all about Trier from last season and I think we're forgetting how good he could have been this year. The next month and a half should be really interesting for his future
I think he is moving one way or another. He is either going to rise up the charts if he gets his stuff together (an Allonzo Trier with the relentless drive and finish game we saw last year with a decent 3 and some defense in space can be a late 1st rounder), or fall apart completely, which is where we would be if the draft was right this second.
Most players are pretty much slotted right now. Trier is the rare entity that has the size and potential game to make a big move up, but is really dependent on the season's end. Some players can move up in March, but by and large, fans make a bigger deal of March Madness celebrity and draft status than GMs and scouts do. These kids are known entities. Trier, though, has question marks. I hope they are exclamation points by April.
Zo played out of his mind and stepped up the defense as well. Seemed like he and PJC were the only guys who remembered who we were playing and what we were playing for.
He gets the last shot to tie, take the lead, anything every god damn game. I don't care if it's a bad shot. So stupid that the ball wasn't rotated back to him with so much time left.
Wasnt an issue for Gabe York, but of course, having a much superior scorer who was unstoppable the entire game taking a final shot would be asking too much.
97cats wrote:Trier has to have the ball in his hands with choice at end of tight games, it's that simple for Arizona.
Text that to Kadeem before the game, next time.
I fly like a hawk, or better yet an eagle--a seagull. I sniff suckers out like a beagle...My ego is off and running and gone, Cause I'm about the best and if you diss than that's wrong
97cats wrote:Trier has to have the ball in his hands with choice at end of tight games, it's that simple for Arizona.
Has this finally been established on 25 February? Each game gets us closer to solidifying this team's identity post-Trier suspension, ideally. I suppose a loss can hammer that home.
There wasn't a person in McKale who thought that was a good shot or the right shot...
I fly like a hawk, or better yet an eagle--a seagull. I sniff suckers out like a beagle...My ego is off and running and gone, Cause I'm about the best and if you diss than that's wrong
So I see the love affair with Trier re-ignited tonight... No more worries about the Trier effect - only that he has to have the ball in his hands and take every important shot.
Today I would have been on board with that... Hot hand and a great game. If this becomes a trend for the balance of the season, I'll be more inclined to join the consensus.
KA should not have taken the shot, but there were 7 seconds left and you'd like a chance at more than one look, or a quicker foul without the board.
I'll blame Miller for being out of timeouts, or PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court. I love Miller, and I like PJC - thought he played a great game, too.
For my money, freshman or not, let the best shooter on the team decide our fate at the end of the game. I am not sold on Zo's decision making, at least not on a consistent basis. I know tonight no one will agree, but let's see how he plays against everyone else not wearing Bruin colors.
Last edited by Harvey Specter on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
97cats wrote:Trier needs to have the ball in his hands running high screen and roll with LM -- he was wide open tonight off the ball....watch the play again.
Exactly. Trier was completely open.
My wife who is a fan, but no where near a basketball analyst even called it as it was developing. I could live with the loss if it was hot hand trier who took the shot. At least let the man who brought you there have his chance.
whatisee wrote:If we play UCLA again i would put Trier on Ball the entire game. I think Trier is in Ball's head, and if you watch the game again you'll see it too.
I agree that they should...I don't know if I'd describe it the same way, but Trier does seem to annoy Ball when they are head to head.
I fly like a hawk, or better yet an eagle--a seagull. I sniff suckers out like a beagle...My ego is off and running and gone, Cause I'm about the best and if you diss than that's wrong
Harvey Specter wrote:PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court.
Glad someone else noticed that too.
But do we need to know if Miller was "instructing" him? Probably was. That would explain why.
We have eight/nine players. All year long a different assortment of that group--two/three of them at a time-- are under watch....or feel so.
Lauri may be the only one who has escaped so far.
Miller is constantly on the team to move the ball, and move without the ball.
I fly like a hawk, or better yet an eagle--a seagull. I sniff suckers out like a beagle...My ego is off and running and gone, Cause I'm about the best and if you diss than that's wrong
Harvey Specter wrote:PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court.
Glad someone else noticed that too.
But do we need to know if Miller was "instructing" him? Probably was. That would explain why.
Think you are right Hank, Miller is always barking out plays. Not that it worked. Passing the ball around the perimeter with Allen taking the last shot could not have been called. Markkanen clearly did not want the ball the last 2 possessions.
One way I miss Lute was that he would just let the players play end of game and not try to micromanage it.
Harvey Specter wrote:PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court.
Glad someone else noticed that too.
But do we need to know if Miller was "instructing" him? Probably was. That would explain why.
Think you are right Hank, Miller is always barking out plays. Not that it worked. Passing the ball around the perimeter with Allen taking the last shot could not have been called. Markkanen clearly did not want the ball the last 2 possessions.
One way I miss Lute was that he would just let the players play end of game and not try to micromanage it.
And then Lute would get bounced in the first round of NCAA's quite often and people would complain that he didn't coach them up properly.
I fly like a hawk, or better yet an eagle--a seagull. I sniff suckers out like a beagle...My ego is off and running and gone, Cause I'm about the best and if you diss than that's wrong
Harvey Specter wrote:PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court.
Glad someone else noticed that too.
But do we need to know if Miller was "instructing" him? Probably was. That would explain why.
We have eight/nine players. All year long a different assortment of that group--two/three of them at a time-- are under watch....or feel so.
Lauri may be the only one who has escaped so far.
You really have to give this a rest man. Miller's sustained and consistent success and being the 2nd best recruiter over the last 7 years is proof that this is a non-issue. Both PJC and Kadeem have taken their sweet ass times getting the ball up the court in urgent situations their whole careers here. And the 8-9 guys under the watch is to be expected when you have a plethora of 4-5 star recruits and a bunch of young, NBA-level talent.
As Markkanen tries to get back on track, Arizona’s now-leading scorer Allonzo Trier has hit his stride.
On Saturday, Trier scored a career-high 28 points against UCLA while shooting 11-for-14 from the field.
“Allonzo is like we knew,” Miller said. “He’s becoming more comfortable and I think you’re truly seeing him enter his best phase. He missed 19 games, it’s not easy all of a sudden to plug into a game, plug into a team, and it’s taken us and it’s taken him a few weeks here to settle in.
“But … he had a great game in a big game and he was a big reason why we were in the game to have a chance to win it. Not only did he have 28 points, but he was 11-for-14 from the field. He was incredibly efficient.”
With that career-best scoring output, Trier upped his season scoring average to 16.2 points per game, and he is shooting 48.6 from the field and 42 percent from 3 this season.
I thought in this game he played pretty well on defense. He was matched up on Ball a lot and he only got 11 for the game
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
Harvey Specter wrote:PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court.
Glad someone else noticed that too.
But do we need to know if Miller was "instructing" him? Probably was. That would explain why.
Think you are right Hank, Miller is always barking out plays. Not that it worked. Passing the ball around the perimeter with Allen taking the last shot could not have been called. Markkanen clearly did not want the ball the last 2 possessions.
One way I miss Lute was that he would just let the players play end of game and not try to micromanage it.
And then Lute would get bounced in the first round of NCAA's quite often and people would complain that he didn't coach them up properly.
This. Lute did so many good things for Arizona that people forget that a lot of the results weren't sunshine and roses. Frankly, Arizona was looked at as a consistent underachiever except for the 1994-2005 era..
Even outside of Lute, that' how it goes with fans. Miller says a lot, it's overcoaching if we lose. If he let the players play, it would be great...until we lost. Then people would compare him to Alford for just rolling the ball out there.
97cats wrote:Trier needs to have the ball in his hands running high screen and roll with LM -- he was wide open tonight off the ball....watch the play again.
Harvey Specter wrote:So I see the love affair with Trier re-ignited tonight... No more worries about the Trier effect - only that he has to have the ball in his hands and take every important shot.
Today I would have been on board with that... Hot hand and a great game. If this becomes a trend for the balance of the season, I'll be more inclined to join the consensus.
KA should not have taken the shot, but there were 7 seconds left and you'd like a chance at more than one look, or a quicker foul without the board.
I'll blame Miller for being out of timeouts, or PJC for lackadaisically bringing the ball up the court. I love Miller, and I like PJC - thought he played a great game, too.
For my money, freshman or not, let the best shooter on the team decide our fate at the end of the game. I am not sold on Zo's decision making, at least not on a consistent basis. I know tonight no one will agree, but let's see how he plays against everyone else not wearing Bruin colors.
I hear ya w prisoner of the moment syndrome, but even if Trier was shitty last game he's still the best end of game option in a two man game w Lauri. He's our best ISO player who can get his own shot. That stepback is deadly in an end of game ISO situation.
U run pick and roll / pop w him and lauri. Have two other shooters out there in catch and shoot mode, and a guy like Chance to crash glass if deficit is 2 or less.
I just don't want to have a team with a senior guard shooting 41% from three who passes up that wide open 3 with 7 seconds left...DOWN THREE.
If we had a timeout, Trier would have been smothered. He wouldn't have seen the ball, and we likely would have had a forced 3. We got a natural, wide open three out of the "no time out for coaches to smother the game" run of play.
Yeah, Trier should have had the ball...off the rebound. He should have brought it up the court. But I think we are getting seriously video game here thinking Kadeem Allen should have passed the ball when he received the ball WIDE OPEN down 3, at the 3 point line, as a guard and 40%+ shooter from distance. I think we would have killed Kadeem in hindsight if he had forced the ball to Trier, who missed a rushed or guarded 3. We would have been all over him..."how does a SENIOR pass up that shot? He is 41% from three." Others would say "It must be Miller...he has the team so scared, a starting senior guard shooting 41% from three passed up a wide open shot to tie and forced the ball to Trier because Miller yells at them too much."
