Who's staying? Who's going?

WildHolcs · Post by **WildHolcs** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:59 am

It would be stupid for Trier to go. He's too short and not athletic enough. Simmons, laughable if he even thinks he's ready. IMO the only for sure guys that are gone are Lauri and Kadeem - I guess Simmons transferring might make sense

I still like what we have lined up next year
Rawle - the #1 guy I'd want back anyways - he's going to be amazing
PJC - I really like the way he played down the stretch for the most part - obviously still undersized but a valuable player
Dus - Not a big fan of dus b/c he's charmin soft but still a nice big to have
Commanche - Should take over starting spot next to Dayton - He could become really f'ing good
Pinder - Plays hard, should improve, another big is always nice

Maybes

Simmons - Ill take him, but if he's not here not going to even blink. He's an iso guy clearly. He thinks his athleticism can overmatch any defender and will always look for that.
Trier - Even though he does hurt us from time to time, and everyone is hating him...Ill take him back in a heartbeat

Add in beast Ayton and lee for size, and Randolph and hopefully Bowen and that's a lot of wing length. PG does seem to be the problem, but I think miller has to have some guys in mind to transfer. If only a TJ type could fall out from somewhere.

Even without the maybes should be a pretty talented team. It'll be huge for one of the incoming wings to really shine - hopefully we get Bowen and he turns out to be a badass. IDK, I'm struggling, but just trying to stay positive, this f'ing blows.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:43 am

WildHolcs wrote:You guys should settle down on Trier...a lot of the 3 forced misses down the stretch were on Millers ass not being prepared and having a better offense or play calls to get a better shot ( maybe let Lauri touch the damn ball). Trier got us to where we were, up 8 with 3 minutes to go. And was a big part of us winning the pac tourney. The shit offense down the stretch was more on miller than anyone else...but keep looking to the players as the scape goat.

Dont kid yourself. Trier was taking those no matter what was drawn up.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:19 am

Who cares? We're fielding at best a Sweet 16 team next year too. No point guard worth a damn, no perimeter defender in sight. Meh. Maybe we'll win the conference if Dillon Brooks finally takes off.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:10 pm

This is how I see it:

Coming back-Alkins and Markkanen
Leaving-Trier and Simmons

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:47 pm

Simmons leaving/transferring better be a joke. He will blossom next year as a starter. Id like to see Lauri stay, Trier go pro and Dusan overseas. Plus we pick up a point guard transfer

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Jefe wrote:Simmons leaving/transferring better be a joke. He will blossom next year as a starter. Id like to see Lauri stay, Trier go pro and Dusan overseas. Plus we pick up a point guard transfer

As a starter with both Rawle and Zo very likely returning? Not so much. His plan from the get go was one and done no matter what. He'll have the combine numbers to get drafted in the 2nd round and that's more than good enough for him.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:15 pm

Simmons is #49 at DX, Trier is still off the board. D League is made for players like Kobi.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:22 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Jefe wrote:Simmons leaving/transferring better be a joke. He will blossom next year as a starter. Id like to see Lauri stay, Trier go pro and Dusan overseas. Plus we pick up a point guard transfer
As a starter with both Rawle and Zo very likely returning? Not so much. His plan from the get go was one and done no matter what. He'll have the combine numbers to get drafted in the 2nd round and that's more than good enough for him.

If true that is really sad.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:35 pm

13 Scholarships Right?

1-Ayton
2-Randolph
3-Lee
4-Barcello
5-Alkins
6-Pinder
7-Comanche
8-Jackson-Cartwright
9-Ristic
Those seem the most likely at this point

10-Trier?
11-Simmons?

Then two spots for other recruits or a transfer?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:36 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Jefe wrote:Simmons leaving/transferring better be a joke. He will blossom next year as a starter. Id like to see Lauri stay, Trier go pro and Dusan overseas. Plus we pick up a point guard transfer
As a starter with both Rawle and Zo very likely returning? Not so much. His plan from the get go was one and done no matter what. He'll have the combine numbers to get drafted in the 2nd round and that's more than good enough for him.

If Rawle and Zo are returning, I don't see why Kobi would return. If Rawle and Zo return, I'm ok with that too.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:41 pm

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:41 pm

He's gone.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:43 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:He's gone.

Hope he transfers and doesnt pull a Jahii Carson, assuming he is leaving Arizona

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:44 pm

Simmons is going pro, period.

PHXCATS wrote:13 Scholarships Right?

1-Ayton
2-Randolph
3-Lee
4-Barcello
5-Alkins
6-Pinder
7-Comanche
8-Jackson-Cartwright
9-Ristic
Those seem the most likely at this point

10-Trier?
11-Simmons?

Then two spots for other recruits or a transfer?

Everyone seems to forget about Talbot Denny.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:56 pm

Merkin wrote:Simmons is going pro, period.

PHXCATS wrote:13 Scholarships Right?

1-Ayton
2-Randolph
3-Lee
4-Barcello
5-Alkins
6-Pinder
7-Comanche
8-Jackson-Cartwright
9-Ristic
Those seem the most likely at this point

10-Trier?
11-Simmons?

Then two spots for other recruits or a transfer?
Everyone seems to forget about Talbot Denny.

I'm sure we only bring Denny back if we have an open scholy. Another guy every one seems to forget is Dylan Smith.

Other possibilities to that list: Emmanuel Akot (possibly can enroll early), Brian Bowen (if both Trier/Rawle return he's probably not coming), Trevon Duvall, a grad transfer PG (either Duvall or grad transfer PG probably means PJC leaves), a regular transfer or two (Chase Jeter good possibility here).

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:25 pm

Why isnt Dylan Smith on that list?

Merkin wrote:Simmons is #49 at DX, Trier is still off the board. D League is made for players like Kobi.

Simmons was on that list when Trier was out. If they were paying attention he is not even a 2nd rounder now. Trier not on the list proves that when other sites have him as a lottery pick

ChooChooCat wrote:As a starter with both Rawle and Zo very likely returning? Not so much. His plan from the get go was one and done no matter what. He'll have the combine numbers to get drafted in the 2nd round and that's more than good enough for him.

This would be a bigger joke than GJ leaving early. My gut tells Zo is not coming back and I dont know why he would unless he knows his game doesnt translate

Can we get Richard Jefferson to mentor these young guys?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:44 pm

Jefe wrote:Why isnt Dylan Smith on that list?
Merkin wrote:Simmons is #49 at DX, Trier is still off the board. D League is made for players like Kobi.
Simmons was on that list when Trier was out. If they were paying attention he is not even a 2nd rounder now. Trier not on the list proves that when other sites have him as a lottery pick
ChooChooCat wrote:As a starter with both Rawle and Zo very likely returning? Not so much. His plan from the get go was one and done no matter what. He'll have the combine numbers to get drafted in the 2nd round and that's more than good enough for him.
This would be a bigger joke than GJ leaving early. My gut tells Zo is not coming back and I dont know why he would unless he knows his game doesnt translate

Can we get Richard Jefferson to mentor these young guys?

DX is probably the most accurate draft site.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:45 pm

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4367" target="_blank

Lauri Markkanen who we had the finnish reporter here for Patrik Laine. He told me. You heard him. He told me Lauri might shock the NBA by staying in Arizona for 3 years because he is not a person that will jump just for a contract. Finland athletes are a different breeze. He is really special. The only way he leaves is that he does that Finland education program for the next 2 years while in the NBA just like Laine and if Lauri does not want to play with Miller offense next year.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:51 pm

Jefe wrote:viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4367

Lauri Markkanen who we had the finnish reporter here for Patrik Laine. He told me. You heard him. He told me Lauri might shock the NBA by staying in Arizona for 3 years because he is not a person that will jump just for a contract. Finland athletes are a different breeze. He is really special. The only way he leaves is that he does that Finland education program for the next 2 years while in the NBA just like Laine and if Lauri does not want to play with Miller offense next year.

Stop teasing. Especially when it says he is a different breeze.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:55 pm

That Kobi tweet translates to - GONE

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:57 pm

Thats a worse tease than the college girl my frosh year with her boyfriend up in phx.

Also if true, Miller needs to be in his room promising to make him the man next year. And run sets to showcase his awesomeness.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:06 pm

Jefe wrote:My gut tells Zo is not coming back and I dont know why he would unless he knows his game doesnt translate

I'd get used to the idea of having Zo back next year if I were you.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:08 pm

rgdeuce wrote:That Kobi tweet translates to - GONE

You made me search Kobi's twitter, and if you mean his most recent tweet, yeah, it doesn't seem like he wasted any time.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:12 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Jefe wrote:My gut tells Zo is not coming back and I dont know why he would unless he knows his game doesnt translate
I'd get used to the idea of having Zo back next year if I were you.

Really? Gut feeling or know something?

I'll take a full year of trier if him and Miller can work on making his aggressiveness work for the entire team. If it's more ISO ZO, no thanks.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:15 pm

When's the date when all this have to be finalized/kids need to decide?

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:21 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:When's the date when all this have to be finalized/kids need to decide?

they have until may 24th to w/d their name and not lose eligibility with or without an agent i think

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:23 pm

ChooChooCat probably knows, and if so, what he knows makes sense. The old wisdom that staying in college helps prepare you better than going pro has rightly been questioned in years. The problem is it got questioned too much. Guards like Trier can be first rounders with guaranteed contracts if they develop longer in the NCAA.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:25 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Jefe wrote:My gut tells Zo is not coming back and I dont know why he would unless he knows his game doesnt translate
I'd get used to the idea of having Zo back next year if I were you.
Really? Gut feeling or know something?

I'll take a full year of trier if him and Miller can work on making his aggressiveness work for the entire team. If it's more ISO ZO, no thanks.

The decision to return was made a good while ago (predominantly due to missing so much time) with the caveat if he had a big enough of a tourney and could work his way into the 1st round. He didn't accomplish that obviously.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:27 pm

So

PJC
Trier
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Too early to think about

Lose Bowen, Akot who knows if he reclassifies

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:28 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:When's the date when all this have to be finalized/kids need to decide?
they have until may 24th to w/d their name and not lose eligibility with or without an agent i think

NBA website has these dates

April 23
NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)

June 12
NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline (5:00 p.m. ET

http://www.nba.com/key-dates" target="_blank

Think it's April 23rd

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:36 pm

Longhorned wrote:ChooChooCat probably knows, and if so, what he knows makes sense. The old wisdom that staying in college helps prepare you better than going pro has rightly been questioned in years. The problem is it got questioned too much. Guards like Trier can be first rounders with guaranteed contracts if they develop longer in the NCAA.

2018 is a weaker draft class than 2017. Unless you are projected in the teens, there is a significant chance that waiting a year can make the difference between a guaranteed deal and no guarantee.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:37 pm

NYCat wrote:
scumdevils86 wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:When's the date when all this have to be finalized/kids need to decide?
they have until may 24th to w/d their name and not lose eligibility with or without an agent i think
NBA website has these dates

April 23
NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)

June 12
NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline (5:00 p.m. ET

http://www.nba.com/key-dates" target="_blank

Think it's April 23rd

Players who are not automatically eligible must declare their eligibility for the draft by notifying the NBA offices in writing no later than 60 days before the draft. For the 2017 draft, this date will fall on April 23. After that date "early entry" players may attend NBA pre-draft camps and individual team workouts to show off their skills and obtain feedback regarding their draft positions. Under the CBA a player may withdraw his name from consideration from the draft at any time before the final declaration date, which is 10 days before the draft. Under newly implemented NCAA rules, players have until May 24 (10 days after the draft combine) to withdraw from the draft and retain college eligibility.

A player who has hired an agent will forfeit his remaining college eligibility regardless of whether he is drafted.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:40 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Longhorned wrote:ChooChooCat probably knows, and if so, what he knows makes sense. The old wisdom that staying in college helps prepare you better than going pro has rightly been questioned in years. The problem is it got questioned too much. Guards like Trier can be first rounders with guaranteed contracts if they develop longer in the NCAA.
2018 is a weaker draft class than 2017. Unless you are projected in the teens, there is a significant chance that waiting a year can make the difference between a guaranteed deal and no guarantee.

This certainly played into it as well.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:42 pm

NYCat wrote:So

PJC
Trier
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Too early to think about

Lose Bowen, Akot who knows if he reclassifies

Who said Ristic would be gone?

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:45 pm

If Lauri announces he is returning my sorrows for the season will disappear instantly.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:47 pm

I honestly think the big unknown is Lauri.

I think Simmons is gone , Alkins and Trier come back.

The domino of that is Bowen prob goes to Creighton or somewhere else.

I don't know if we can put enough of a press on to get Duval. I'd lean towards no. I think we better just get on board the PJC train w AB as his backup. Maybe Trier can run some PG in a pinch.

I have zero clue on Akot, although we could certainly use a wing defender in the mold of RHJ next year as our perimeter D was bad this year and we lose our one good guy at that next year.

I think Maverick Rowan transfers in as a traditional transfer for the 13th ship.

I'm gonna be optimistic and say this is our roster next year :

PJC
Trier
Alkins
Lauri
Ayton

Bench:
Dusan
Chance
Pinder
D Smith
Lee
Randolph
Barcello
Rowan (RS)

That's my best and most optimistic guess.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:52 pm

Dosia wrote:If Lauri announces he is returning my sorrows for the season will disappear instantly.

If Lauri and Trier return, my negative emotions about this season will immediately turn into negative emotions about how next year is too good to be true and obviously a foolish prelude to a even greater disappointment.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:59 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Dosia wrote:If Lauri announces he is returning my sorrows for the season will disappear instantly.
If Lauri and Trier return, my negative emotions about this season will immediately turn into negative emotions about how next year is too good to be true and obviously a foolish prelude to a even greater disappointment.

Yep sounds like Arizona basketball to me. I still wouldn't get my hopes up on Lauri. It's possible, but I think the outside pressure will be too great to say no. Miller also won't lie to the kid as much as I'm sure he'd love to have him back.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
NYCat wrote:So

PJC
Trier
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Too early to think about

Lose Bowen, Akot who knows if he reclassifies
Who said Ristic would be gone?

Doesn't mean he should start, if Miller is so big on defense idk why Chief wouldn't be the starter. Plenty of offense elsewhere and Duce socring off the bench is better.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:08 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Dosia wrote:If Lauri announces he is returning my sorrows for the season will disappear instantly.
If Lauri and Trier return, my negative emotions about this season will immediately turn into negative emotions about how next year is too good to be true and obviously a foolish prelude to a even greater disappointment.

Lmao!!!

I love about you guys and following the cats is after a crushing loss we are talking about future lineups in the face to potentially worse crushing losses.

Seriously teams like asu can't even fathom having a thread like this.

If Lauri comes back...look out.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:09 pm

And I know it's not consistent, but I'd love to see a year with trier. So yes we are better with him on the team, for a full year

. Will humbly eat crow over last nights hot takes.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:39 pm

NYCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
NYCat wrote:So

PJC
Trier
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Too early to think about

Lose Bowen, Akot who knows if he reclassifies
Who said Ristic would be gone?
Doesn't mean he should start, if Miller is so big on defense idk why Chief wouldn't be the starter. Plenty of offense elsewhere and Duce socring off the bench is better.

Miller isn't going to bench a senior Dusan Ristic regardless of defense.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:48 pm

Im not even entertaining a Lauri return until it comes directly from his or Millers mouth that he is returning. But, say that did happen, you would have to question Millers sanity if Dusan started. There isnt a person in this world that can tell me he should start over Chance if Lauri didnt return, but obviously we know he would.

Quite honestly, Im fine with Dusan just leaving now and taking our chances that we dont get Lauri back. The Dusan thing has taken its course w me. I dont know if MCCoy is out of the question now, but u have to imagine we could make a huge push at him much easier with that spot open. I know im gonna be in the minority on this but i just cant deal with the defensive and rebounding incompetence, as well as his game itself and physical attributes slowing our offense to a crawl. If we have to roll out there w chance, ayton, lee and pinder im good w that as a worst case scenario

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:51 pm

Dosia wrote:If Lauri announces he is returning my sorrows for the season will disappear instantly.

I believe there is a chance. Lauri is an excellent student and if his dad believes he could benefit one more year in college, maybe he listens to his dad.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:53 pm

Irish27 wrote:
Dosia wrote:If Lauri announces he is returning my sorrows for the season will disappear instantly.
I believe there is a chance. Lauri is an excellent student and if his dad believes he could benefit one more year in college, maybe he listens to his dad.

I wouldn't say his dad is as keen on him passing on the lottery and returning to school as some may think.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:53 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
NYCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
NYCat wrote:So

PJC
Trier
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Too early to think about

Lose Bowen, Akot who knows if he reclassifies
Who said Ristic would be gone?
Doesn't mean he should start, if Miller is so big on defense idk why Chief wouldn't be the starter. Plenty of offense elsewhere and Duce socring off the bench is better.
Miller isn't going to bench a senior Dusan Ristic regardless of defense.

If Lauri returns he absolutely will. Well he better.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:12 pm

Lauri is not coming back. He's projected as a top 5 pick. It's just not happening.
Trier I don't know. I thought he would leave but thinking about it more maybe he comes back.
Everyone here is pretty set on Kobi leaving...but that would be a bad decision.

Other than Lauri the most important guy for me is Alkins. I can see him becoming a star.

But we need a PG. All these projected lineups (even with Ayton and Lauri) make me cringe when I see PJC as the primary PG.

Best possible:
Transfer or frosh pg with Miller pulling off some magic
Trier
Alkins
Lauri
Ayton

More realistic:
PJC
Trier (or Kobi)
Alkins
Ayton
Comanche/Ristic (Comanche should be the starter next year IMO if Lauri isn't back. He continues to improve and is a better player than Ristic.)

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:20 pm

Like I said if Miller could somehow get Duval that'd be ideal. But I don't see any "Duval types" as a grad transfer fix.

I don't even see any Mark Lyons types. And we don't need a score first pg next year if Trier comes back.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:23 pm

PennZona20 wrote:Like I said if Miller could somehow get Duval that'd be ideal. But I don't see any "Duval types" as a grad transfer fix.

I don't even see any Mark Lyons types. And we don't need a score first pg next year if Trier comes back.

I agree. We just need someone other than PJC.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:29 pm

PennZona20 wrote:Like I said if Miller could somehow get Duval that'd be ideal. But I don't see any "Duval types" as a grad transfer fix.

I don't even see any Mark Lyons types. And we don't need a score first pg next year if Trier comes back.

Oh for sure there's no Duval out there on the transfer market and I never insinuated that's what we'd be getting.

Did you even look at the assist numbers of some of the guys I posted? You're calling them one thing when their team situation dictated they be that as opposed to what they would be at Arizona. The Murray State kid is a good example of a good sized point guard who can do a lot of good things and was only ball dominant because he played for Murray State, yet still had 5 dimes a game.

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