Allonzo Trier

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:08 am

People were rough on him in the game thread. He wasnt auditioning IMO, he just forcefully tried to inject himself in a game where that didnt need him to at that point. He sees himself as the alpha who missed a couple shots and was probably like, man our offense is going off and Im not a part of it, let me get in there. Not defending it, he has to realize its ok if hes got two at the half if Lauri and Rawle are killing it, just let it be and it will come back around to you in the 2nd or the next game. He didnt have a great game but at the end of the day, he still gave us 18 points on 11 field goal attempts.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:12 am

rgdeuce wrote:People were rough on him in the game thread. He wasnt auditioning IMO, he just forcefully tried to inject himself in a game where that didnt need him to at that point. He sees himself as the alpha who missed a couple shots and was probably like, man our offense is going off and Im not a part of it, let me get in there. Not defending it, he has to realize its ok if hes got two at the half if Lauri and Rawle are killing it, just let it be and it will come back around to you in the 2nd or the next game. He didnt have a great game but at the end of the day, he still gave us 18 points on 11 field goal attempts.

Totally agree with this 100%. I could not believe the stuff people were saying in the game thread. Completely ridiculous

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:15 am

To the degree that Arizona has horses, Allonzo is a horse.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:15 am

rgdeuce wrote:People were rough on him in the game thread. He wasnt auditioning IMO, he just forcefully tried to inject himself in a game where that didnt need him to at that point. He sees himself as the alpha who missed a couple shots and was probably like, man our offense is going off and Im not a part of it, let me get in there. Not defending it, he has to realize its ok if hes got two at the half if Lauri and Rawle are killing it, just let it be and it will come back around to you in the 2nd or the next game. He didnt have a great game but at the end of the day, he still gave us 18 points on 11 field goal attempts.

Most of the points were late free throws.

I looked at the box and it seems impossible he only had one TO. What was killing me is that he would go into traffic and try to create contact. That works when the refs are calling it, but last night they weren't.

I'm not down on him, but hopefully was his worst tourney game because it isn't what he's been lately.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:21 am

Allonzo will be the single most important offensive piece for our St. Mary's game. That game is absolutely designed for him to dominate. He needs to make it so,

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:56 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:People were rough on him in the game thread. He wasnt auditioning IMO, he just forcefully tried to inject himself in a game where that didnt need him to at that point. He sees himself as the alpha who missed a couple shots and was probably like, man our offense is going off and Im not a part of it, let me get in there. Not defending it, he has to realize its ok if hes got two at the half if Lauri and Rawle are killing it, just let it be and it will come back around to you in the 2nd or the next game. He didnt have a great game but at the end of the day, he still gave us 18 points on 11 field goal attempts.
Most of the points were late free throws.

I looked at the box and it seems impossible he only had one TO. What was killing me is that he would go into traffic and try to create contact. That works when the refs are calling it, but last night they weren't.

I'm not down on him, but hopefully was his worst tourney game because it isn't what he's been lately.

Yes, but free throws he should have had earlier on a few of those no calls. He gets those calls against higher seeds, it was obvious the refs were helping the "little guy" out a bit there. Had 8 FTA in the final 8 minutes, but four still came in the 6 and 7 minutes to go frame. We knew it was over at that point, but the possessions in that time frame was step on their throats time, which we always struggle to do so I aint mad at them.

Zo should have had two turnovers at least. They only gave Ristic one too and he had three at least.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:01 am

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:People were rough on him in the game thread. He wasnt auditioning IMO, he just forcefully tried to inject himself in a game where that didnt need him to at that point. He sees himself as the alpha who missed a couple shots and was probably like, man our offense is going off and Im not a part of it, let me get in there. Not defending it, he has to realize its ok if hes got two at the half if Lauri and Rawle are killing it, just let it be and it will come back around to you in the 2nd or the next game. He didnt have a great game but at the end of the day, he still gave us 18 points on 11 field goal attempts.
Most of the points were late free throws.

I looked at the box and it seems impossible he only had one TO. What was killing me is that he would go into traffic and try to create contact. That works when the refs are calling it, but last night they weren't.

I'm not down on him, but hopefully was his worst tourney game because it isn't what he's been lately.
Yes, but free throws he should have had earlier on a few of those no calls. He gets those calls against higher seeds, it was obvious the refs were helping the "little guy" out a bit there. Had 8 FTA in the final 8 minutes, but four still came in the 6 and 7 minutes to go frame. We knew it was over at that point, but the possessions in that time frame was step on their throats time, which we always struggle to do so I aint mad at them.

Zo should have had two turnovers at least. They only gave Ristic one too and he had three at least.

I hope he gets the calls going further. A lot of his game is predicated on forcing contact.

My dissatisfaction was with him not adjusting to the fact that he wasn't going to get those calls last night. He didn't get the whistles, but he kept pushing at least 2-3 times and wound up with a really ugly finish. The only explanation for low TO's is that a lot of them got recorded as blocked shots because a few times it wasn't clear if it was a shot or pass that got snuffed.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:03 am

He only had one turn over but missed 4 shots from beyond the arc all taken within 10 seconds of the shot clock following ISO play, which is like a turnover.

What spiff and choo said. He should feast tomorrow and hopefully his worst game is behind him. It drives me nuts when he takes a low percentage shot at the expense of an easy assist for a much higher percentage one.

Anywhere where we can see plus minus for the players? Couldn't find it on espn.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:10 am

Box score says he was 1-4 from 3. I have no issues with his those shots in THAT game. His stepback or pull up 3 is a big weapon and hes been knocking them down. His first 3pa wasnt a bad shot.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:24 am

rgdeuce wrote:Box score says he was 1-4 from 3. I have no issues with his those shots in THAT game. His stepback or pull up 3 is a big weapon and hes been knocking them down. His first 3pa wasnt a bad shot.

Yeah, I don't have a huge issue with his 3's. They were all decent looks and if one more goes down, he turns a subpar night into a good night. He just missed a few J's that he's been making lately, but that will correct itself.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:27 am

this game against St Mary's is made for Allonzo Trier on the offensive end of the floor -- he should take the ball to the rim every single time he touches the ball.

he could score 30, with half those points coming at the line.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:34 am

97cats wrote:this game against St Mary's is made for Allonzo Trier on the offensive end of the floor -- he should take the ball to the rim every single time he touches the ball.

he could score 30, with half those points coming at the line.

From It seems that Randy Bennett is very stubborn in terms of staying in man to man. We've forced just about everybody into a zone this season. I have a hard time seeing those SMU guards keeping Alkins, Trier and Allen out of the paint.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:36 am

True, I'm a little crack out right now so clarity of thought is ebbing and flowing. For trier, a counter point I'd give myself is you want trier safely taking those shots because once he starts hitting watch out.

It's similar in thought to a general surgeons who aim to have a 75% appendectomy rate; i.e. 1/4 you take back to take out and appendix will NOT have appendicitis. The thought of you are your fate is higher than that, you are putting some people at unnessecary risk because you are only taking clear cut cases of appendicities and not those that are brewing but yet to become appendicitis.

I really need some sleep. Lol

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:38 am

Another reason to go smaller and keep the paint more clear of bodies.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:44 am

CalStateTempe wrote:True, I'm a little crack out right now so clarity of thought is ebbing and flowing. For trier, a counter point I'd give myself is you want trier safely taking those shots because once he starts hitting watch out.

It's similar in thought to a general surgeons who aim to have a 75% appendectomy rate; i.e. 1/4 you take back to take out and appendix will NOT have appendicitis. The thought of you are your fate is higher than that, you are putting some people at unnessecary risk because you are only taking clear cut cases of appendicities and not those that are brewing but yet to become appendicitis.

I really need some sleep. Lol

Lol I got some leftover Hydrocodone from my recent surgery if you need help sleeping brother.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:48 am

Aww man, flush that nasty stuff down the toilet.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:48 pm

Hero ball.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 pm

Bye now. Good luck wherever you end up.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 pm

ISO ZO

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:50 pm

Mixed feelings from me.

Without him, we're not in the game. He scored what was it, 16? straight points for us.

But yeah he made some poor choices/shots late.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:51 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:Mixed feelings from me.

Without him, we're not in the game. He scored what was it, 16? straight points for us.

But yeah he made some poor choices/shots late.

He was big middle of the 2nd half but made some god awful decisions.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:01 pm

Captain back of the rim J.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:25 pm

Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:30 pm

billk78 wrote:Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?

No question we are a better team without him. We had plenty of firepower. Hero ball lowers everyone's bar. I'm hugely disappointed in his lack of maturity as a player.

bg1988 · Post by **bg1988** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:15 am

We were undoubtedly better (or at least more fun to watch) before Trier's return. Offense flowed better. More balance. Less whining at refs. And for me anyway, much more enjoyable to watch. It was painful to watch the ball being reversed and knowing that whenever it would hit Trier, it needed to stop to see if he could shoot or pound the ball into the court 6 or 7 times. Didn't like his game last year, and thought his return was a big disruption this year. Hate the era of the one and done, but honestly did not want him to return after last year.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:15 am

threenumberones wrote:
billk78 wrote:Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?
No question we are a better team without him. We had plenty of firepower. Hero ball lowers everyone's bar. I'm hugely disappointed in his lack of maturity as a player.

Look at the plus minuses before and over his intergration. of course we were better without him, but those on inconvenient stats to refer to so we just ignore them.

Sure he was great but again a low percentage ISO shot or 1on3 garbage drive is the equivalent of a TO and we got a lot of those out of ISO Zo.

He's gonna be a hell of a player in turkey posterizing Amit, every chance he gets.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:24 am

Heres the barometer for people questioning it: do we win at Pauley without Trier? Do we beat Oregon in vegas without Trier? Do we beat UCLA in vegas without Trier?

We lost two games w Trier. The oregon game we dont wim no matter what and the UCLA home loss where Trier put us on his back and is the only reason it was close. I bet we dropped at least one more Pac 12 game without him. So basically, add three losses to our record/no pac 12 tourny champions, what seed does that get us? Tonight may have happened to us in the 1st or 2nd round without Trier.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:23 am

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

We were pretty damn good playing team ball and maximizing majority of our Players potential when trier was out of the line up.

As I texted a friend tonight: trier giveith trier takeith away

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:26 am

I've never played ball competitively so I don't have that perspective frankly I could care less about how they project. I'm outcomes oriented. And the outcomes with trier in the lineup were lower than his potential. In many stretches, he was were offense our would go to die and was detriment to the team. And don't get me started on his lack of D.

It my gosh, he was so explosive!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:31 am

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:36 am

You have to take the good with the bad with Zo. He showed flashes of both last night. He was bad in the first half, hit a hot streak and carried us for a bit in the second half and then made a bad decision at the end.

I agree completely with RG that we weren't going further without Trier. Look, Kobi would have gotten the minutes, and even with Zo's cons, he is in a different class than Kobi right now.

For people criticizing Trier for playing "hero ball," Kobi stops the ball as much or more than Zo without a lot of the offenisve return.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:44 am

Agree as well. We probably wouldn't have won the p12 or been a 2 seed without Trier so I can't bash him to the extent where I'm sayin he sucks or the team is better off without him. We just weren't good enough I guess - gave X too much life at the end instead of stomping their throats. But this is the same team that beat down UCLA and Oregon b2b mere days ago, and one of those teams could win it all. That's basketball.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:47 am

Merkin wrote:

What a mentally weak "stud player"

Give him 1/4 of what rawle has in his bones.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:16 am

Please come back for one more run...

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:37 am

I believe we should always support our players. I can't stand the type of fan who insults his own college team's player for anything that happens on the court, short of violence...

... even, God help me, Jamelle Horne.

But, I don't put them on a pedestal, either. I believe that it's OK to acknowledge shortcomings, weaknesses, whatever, and still support any Wildcat.

I think Trier is an extremely talented athlete and player. The team certainly performed better overall because of his return, and he led them to the Conference Tournament championship. He is a great shooter and scorer; he plays hard all the time. Even when suspended, he was focused on the team, and cheered like a Gumby!!

But, he'll also deservedly be remembered for occasional lack of judgment. Regardless of the details (known, unknown, whatever), his use of the banned substance was a lapse in judgment. And, he, at times, played one-on-team at the offensive end - and when he did, the offense suffered. Especially the utilization of Markkanen....

Upon his immediate return from suspension, some disruption of "chemistry" was to be expected. That was largely solved by the post-season. But throughout last night's game, and especially in the last two minutes, Trier lost perspective, and tried to finish it off on his own.

Bad judgment. Period.

That being said, I love Trier as a Wildcat, and glad he's on our team. Whether he chooses to stay or leave (a tough choice, I believe, from his perspective), I'd more than welcome him back, and know we'd be an even better team with him.

THanks, Alonzo Trier! Good Luck, Alonzo Trier. Always a Wildcat!!!

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:45 am

After watchig Simmons last night force the action too many times and miss LM when he was wide open I am more than glad Zo was on the floor. I only wish he would have been more aggressive taking it to the hole and getting to the line.

I do think it is sad we might be as fans targeting him for blame. it was a devastating loss but man what a great season. This is what march madness is. Only one teams smiles at the end. I too hope he comes back

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:35 pm

pc in NM wrote:I believe we should always support our players. I can't stand the type of fan who insults his own college team's player for anything that happens on the court, short of violence...

... even, God help me, Jamelle Horne.

But, I don't put them on a pedestal, either. I believe that it's OK to acknowledge shortcomings, weaknesses, whatever, and still support any Wildcat.

I think Trier is an extremely talented athlete and player. The team certainly performed better overall because of his return, and he led them to the Conference Tournament championship. He is a great shooter and scorer; he plays hard all the time. Even when suspended, he was focused on the team, and cheered like a Gumby!!

But, he'll also deservedly be remembered for occasional lack of judgment. Regardless of the details (known, unknown, whatever), his use of the banned substance was a lapse in judgment. And, he, at times, played one-on-team at the offensive end - and when he did, the offense suffered. Especially the utilization of Markkanen....

Upon his immediate return from suspension, some disruption of "chemistry" was to be expected. That was largely solved by the post-season. But throughout last night's game, and especially in the last two minutes, Trier lost perspective, and tried to finish it off on his own.

Bad judgment. Period.

That being said, I love Trier as a Wildcat, and glad he's on our team. Whether he chooses to stay or leave (a tough choice, I believe, from his perspective), I'd more than welcome him back, and know we'd be an even better team with him.

THanks, Alonzo Trier! Good Luck, Alonzo Trier. Always a Wildcat!!!

Well said. This should echo most rational fans' thoughts.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:45 pm

I only want Trier back if Miller can reign him in and at least somewhat improve his play within the team concept. If not, I don't mind taking that loss. Trier seems polarizing to the teams. I know a few guys on last year's team did not get along with him, but then you see how things played out this year... makes you wonder.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:04 pm

rgdeuce wrote:I only want Trier back if Miller can reign him in and at least somewhat improve his play within the team concept. If not, I don't mind taking that loss. Trier seems polarizing to the teams. I know a few guys on last year's team did not get along with him, but then you see how things played out this year... makes you wonder.

My thoughts on this revolve entirely around who else is here. If we are looking at Alkins/Bowen with Smith and Randolph off the bench, if Trier is a chemistry issue, I'm with you.

If we're looking at Alkins/Simmons, maybe not so much, because I don't really see Kobi as easier to fit within a team concept. If Trier's departure would force Randolph or Smith into a starting role, I want Trier back badly.

Trier is a scorer first, and I think he will be until his career is over. That sort of player can be a positive or negative. I posted this in another thread, but if there was a way to give Lauri Allonzo's attitude, Lauri would be an instant NBA allstar. When Zo has that attitude and shoots 0-5 from 3 in the first half, it hurts.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:03 pm

Greenberg interviews Trier at 22mins, Miller at the start

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19461567" target="_blank

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:46 pm

Jefe wrote:Greenberg interviews Trier at 22mins, Miller at the start

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19461567" target="_blank

Some good insight by Miller going forward. Zo sounds excited about the up coming season. Cool post.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:12 pm

threenumberones wrote:
billk78 wrote:Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?
No question we are a better team without him. We had plenty of firepower. Hero ball lowers everyone's bar. I'm hugely disappointed in his lack of maturity as a player.

Harv, I think you're being a little rough on the Beaver.

I don't agree with this take at all. He matured plenty as a player this past season, although not to the complete level we'd prefer of course, but still he came much further along from the prior season.. Every one remembers one fucking game last year and defers primarily to that in regards to Zo. Prior to that game he shot a total appropriate amount of shots and didn't go Iso Zo anywhere close to the amount that people are suggesting he did. We were not a better team without him.

Look at the guys Per 40 minutes stats and tell me again he didn't come further along as a player.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ier-1.html" target="_blank

Edit: I just noticed the post I responded to took place back in March. Totally missed it then lol.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Thu May 25, 2017 7:03 pm

So, in two seasons of Zo, we've actually had him on the floor for a little over one full season....will be nice to have him for a full season next year if we are lucky.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu May 25, 2017 7:50 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
billk78 wrote:Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?
No question we are a better team without him. We had plenty of firepower. Hero ball lowers everyone's bar. I'm hugely disappointed in his lack of maturity as a player.
Harv, I think you're being a little rough on the Beaver.

I don't agree with this take at all. He matured plenty as a player this past season, although not to the complete level we'd prefer of course, but still he came much further along from the prior season.. Every one remembers one fucking game last year and defers primarily to that in regards to Zo. Prior to that game he shot a total appropriate amount of shots and didn't go Iso Zo anywhere close to the amount that people are suggesting he did. We were not a better team without him.

Look at the guys Per 40 minutes stats and tell me again he didn't come further along as a player.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ier-1.html" target="_blank

Edit: I just noticed the post I responded to took place back in March. Totally missed it then lol.

Trier was definitely better. People talk about hero ball, but when the shots were going in and he was pumping out 25 ppg, he was our hero baby and he could kiss away the pain. Against Xavier, they did not, but even the best are there sometimes.

I wasn't thrilled with his D, but offensively he was more complete and rounded out as a better shooter. If his ballhandling and D improve, he and Rawle are going to be nuts. As is, they are presumptively the best pair of wings in the nation.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:42 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
billk78 wrote:Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?
No question we are a better team without him. We had plenty of firepower. Hero ball lowers everyone's bar. I'm hugely disappointed in his lack of maturity as a player.
Harv, I think you're being a little rough on the Beaver.

I don't agree with this take at all. He matured plenty as a player this past season, although not to the complete level we'd prefer of course, but still he came much further along from the prior season.. Every one remembers one fucking game last year and defers primarily to that in regards to Zo. Prior to that game he shot a total appropriate amount of shots and didn't go Iso Zo anywhere close to the amount that people are suggesting he did. We were not a better team without him.

Look at the guys Per 40 minutes stats and tell me again he didn't come further along as a player.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ier-1.html" target="_blank

Edit: I just noticed the post I responded to took place back in March. Totally missed it then lol.

Yea, no reason to rehash the misery that followed that game. Obviously everyone was emotional and posts reflected that.

The point is valid though. After his return just about everyone on the team got worse (Rawle being an exception, but much of his production was scrap). And the eye test told me that he was disrupting some pretty solid offensive chemistry with the hero ball. The team became a passive, deer-in-the-headlights persona on offense and I think that has everything to do with the way he carried himself on the court after his return. I get it though 'Zo, the man keeping you down and you wanted to show the world. We rode your coat tails and you got cold at the worst possible time. It is what it is.

That being said, I'm elated that he's back. Another year of maturity/experience, without the controversy looming over him, and I think we will see a much better leader out of Trier this season. He seems to have bought in to 'the process' and has his eye on the championship prize. I would bet you anything that even he would admit the chip on his shoulder was bigger than that goal last year. I also think it's part of why he came back - something like "I ain't going out like that coach." Really excited to see him on the floor.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:57 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
billk78 wrote:Was this team better off without him? Legit question.
When he was suspended other players played better. Kobi was a huge factor. Kadeem got more shots. Markannen was shooting better.
He comes back and was our leading scorer most nights. No doubt he has talent.
But were we better without him on the floor?
No question we are a better team without him. We had plenty of firepower. Hero ball lowers everyone's bar. I'm hugely disappointed in his lack of maturity as a player.
Harv, I think you're being a little rough on the Beaver.

I don't agree with this take at all. He matured plenty as a player this past season, although not to the complete level we'd prefer of course, but still he came much further along from the prior season.. Every one remembers one fucking game last year and defers primarily to that in regards to Zo. Prior to that game he shot a total appropriate amount of shots and didn't go Iso Zo anywhere close to the amount that people are suggesting he did. We were not a better team without him.

Look at the guys Per 40 minutes stats and tell me again he didn't come further along as a player.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ier-1.html" target="_blank

Edit: I just noticed the post I responded to took place back in March. Totally missed it then lol.
Trier was definitely better. People talk about hero ball, but when the shots were going in and he was pumping out 25 ppg, he was our hero baby and he could kiss away the pain. Against Xavier, they did not, but even the best are there sometimes.

I wasn't thrilled with his D, but offensively he was more complete and rounded out as a better shooter. If his ballhandling and D improve, he and Rawle are going to be nuts. As is, they are presumptively the best pair of wings in the nation.

Sure when he was hitting shots that makes everything easier. When he wasn't we were fucked. The odds of him having 6 straight good games in the tourney were slim. You ride the highs and lows with hero ball, and that's usually not how you cut banners down.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri May 26, 2017 8:31 am

in his defense, no one exactly flashed and vocally demanded the ball from him in that stretch or after it. Kadeem showed leadership by hitting the 3 after the 17 point flourish faded and Trier missed a couple. But other people touched the ball and deferred to Zo. I loved Lauri's time here, but he did not make himself present...it seemed the moment was too big and no one wanted it.

But we cannot ignore defense and its cause here...we had an 8 point lead with under 2 minutes to play. We should not have even had to score again. They came out of a timeout and ran a two touch high/low to a layup (dunk?) like they were running drills with no defense. Never in a million years should have we lost that game up 8 with under 2 minutes left as deliberate as their offense was at that point. We couldn't get a single stop. I have brought up a curl action they ran with their shooter (white dude) where Zo jogged and wasn't even screened on the curl, but didn't step over, and the shooter got the ball at the top block curling into the paint, took one dribble, and when the defender stepped up to him, dropped the world's easiest dime to the defender's man for a dunk. Can't happen. That can't happen on Dec 23 vs North Dakota College of Mines. It really cannot happen in the Sweet 16. THAT is where he needs to focus. His shots come within the offense unless no one else steps up. He takes a number of shots that is in line with a leading scorer. He is not a problem on the offensive end...if the team is deferring, he has to step up. But defensively. Defensively...he HAS to be better. And he can be. That curl play I am talking about was pure effort...he just jogged. If that is conditioning, which I cannot imagine, then get in the gym/on the track. Whatever. He came back because he wants to make the NBA. And for all the "no one plays defense in the NBA" discussions by fans, that cannot be farther from the truth. If you are weak defensively, the NBA will find you, iso you, and run you back to the D league. He needs to show one on one defensive skills and effort to get that 1st round nod he came back for.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:49 am

Got whiplash reading this thread.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri May 26, 2017 10:33 am

Threenumberones, I agree, but Xavier was a bad confluence of stuff. If Rawle isn't playing with a fractured finger, he gives us way more. Lauri got too passive, and we let the zone push us to the 3 point line.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:23 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Threenumberones, I agree, but Xavier was a bad confluence of stuff. If Rawle isn't playing with a fractured finger, he gives us way more. Lauri got too passive, and we let the zone push us to the 3 point line.

Shit...that zone gave us the 3 point line. Anytime they tried to come man to man or extend the zone, we killed them. They opened man to man, we destroyed them. They went zone, then extended when we made a couple and we got like 3 out of 4 possessions with an offensive rebound and putback. Their only choice was to pack it in tight as a tourniquet and say "please, sir...shoot this wide open three. And if you could miss it, we would be quite thankful".

And we complied. Those were open gym looks. It's all X could do. They ran a gimmick of sorts and it was their 1 in 10 chance to win, and it happened.

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