Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[ASUHATER!]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.
Most everyone else on this board is seriously rationalizing

You're ignoring literally everything that's being said and reported on this with this line of thought. It's a big deal with a lot of people involved.

[97cats]

I'm guessing Rick Rickert's mom got some of this money back in the day to make her kid go to Minnesota?

It was Rickert's Dad who coerced him to UM. And it seems obvious now they would have gotten money for Rick to come to Arizona...

and money to pay him to be a Gopher -- yes this shit was prevalent and happening back then as well.

[dmjcat]

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????

They'll never let that happen. But if they do, they will definitely get to the investigation later and vacate the title.

Sincerely,

Cam Newton's 2010-11 Auburn national title team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton" target="_blank

(See eligibility issues at bottom, in case you forgot)

Except that the NCAA didn't have Cam Newton ON TAPE!!

The UA is done with the Tourney for at least a year.

The NCAA doesn’t have him on tape. The fbi does you dolt

I'm pretty sure the NCAA reads the newspapers Sherlock

[BE4RDOWN21]

I wonder if Gatto will be sporting an Adidas branded soap on a rope for his time behind bars.

[Harvey Specter]

I just don't see how the pollyanna's crawling all over themselves to let everyone know they hate this and are shocked...SHOCKED...were able to watch the game got the last 40 years and not know this was happening.

Is the shock that it is so organized? Your favorite game snags kids into their systems at u9, where the ones identified to be in the national top 25 of 5th graders are funneled to the top clubs, even if those clubs are located in another state. Those clubs are all affiliated (the ones that matter) with either Nike or Adidas, and they only play those tournaments. If the kid is good enough, they move up the club, or are pulled by an even better club. The top 100 of any class resides largely among 20 clubs in the country. The kids are given swag for participation, and their club leadership hooks them up with the best in a garage full of shoes and socks and shirts if they perform well. In tougher neighborhoods, the club's employ former gang members to allow safe passage, a hood pass, to top level coaches. The club can refuse this option as well...if you are not affiliated with the correct shoe company. The club contract with the shoe company pays for travel and, most importantly, the salary of the President of the club. So, club X is paid by Adidas and outfitted by Adidas and only deals with Adidas coaches and play Adidas tournaments, and Adidas pays them, why? Exposure, to win, and by winning, to be attractive to the next Michael Jordan. And if the club doesn't win? Hmmm...so, do you think the club's are paying players? So, with this culture, all known...we all know the shoe companies are throwing money around, seed money, to get the next MJ or LeBron. Top players families are being hit up by multiple clubs. Did the "innocents" think mom and dad sat down and did a two column to determine the pros and cons of each club?

Now these kids have been in this culture, pursued since they were 9. Their parents have been given things for years. The NCAA allows for gifts from friends of the family that can establish there was a prior relationship before recruiting. Yeah...Uncle CoachofClubY has been giving junior stuff since he was...9. Now, UncleCoach, who makes $75K as a U15 club coach and works for the city, buys the kid a new Tahoe. Cause he loves him like a son. Where did that money come from? But...friend of the family.

Again...we've all known this. If you didn't, it was only because you actively hid from it. Watch any documentary on AAU or high school hoops. So this kid has "handlers" now...creating a layer between player and dough. Go to a game sometime at the high school level.. lots of guys there who are "friends" or "cousins". The shoe companies have every step from 9 to 18 covered, and you think they are going to leave the next step, when the seed talent they have invested in has now proven itself? You really thought they went "well...itnis against NCAA rules".

Did you really think the car off the Jim Click lot Sean Elliott and A.C. were driving/riding in was bought and paid for by their summer jobs? Chris Mills was ineligible at UK when an Emory envelope busted open (yeah) revealing a cash payment to Claude, his dad. Did you think Claude learned his lesson and THIS TIME Chris was going to go play for free? Did you think Chris Rodgers and Jesus Verdejo and Isiah Fox and Mike Bibby and company just chose Arizona after high school, because the chicks or the pool parties? Jim Click cars left the lot on their own?

C'mon...there has always been a group of boosters at schools that have taken care of the dirty work, hired runners of their own to make contact, facilitated a job for mom or an aunt or what have you, who keep the dirty business away from the player and coach. This has always existed. Coaching salary increases and increased revenues and NBA money had pushed the going rate for players. But how could anyone know the AAU game was owned by shoe companies, that we regularly recruited the top clubs, and got the best players and somehow only some of those other schools participated in paying players? The recruiting, the success of Miller, is no less amazing, because the playing field for recruits has everyone, even asu, paying the going rate for top players. The pay is there...we aren't paying more than others. Maybe we are even paying less...but you still have to out-recruit the top programs, the P5 programs, the only programs that would be in for 5 stars even if there was no pay. The recruiting prowess needed hasnt changed...the competition is still on even ground. We didn't buy #3 classes because we had a bigger pay budget. We paid more because we more successful in recruiting.

I'm not going to pretend I knew the details of what 97Cats said. But you would havr to be willfully ignorant to think a sport so dominated by for profit shoe companies paying billions to put together an infrastructure to ensnare the next major endorser would just leave this step up to chance, and that players who have been bought at every step would suddenly play for love of school for one year

I really do not/did not know a lot of this, especially AAU stuff. You have to willfully seek it out. I find the games themselves unwatchable. I did think cases like Chris Mills were the exception. I did believe coaches who said we do it the right way, until they showed they didn't. Never seen UA fans say, "We do it the right way. That's why I respect Olson or Miller"?

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

So, congrats. You knew all of that or most of it. Did you enjoy it? Not hating what just happened? Or just hating that we got caught.

^^^ This is where I have been. All of It. I don't know shit about AAU basketball because it does not interest me... but I love the rationalizations people embrace.

Are most people prone to greed over principle? Probably. Are all of them? No. Maybe in college hoops, but not in every walk of life.... but it always helps people who want to step over the line justify their actions by saying 'everybody else is doing it'... awesome, let's all swim in the cesspool together.

We shouldn't wonder why our politics are so fucked up; let's just look at ourselves. Most politicians are greedy, selfish, phony assholes because apparently they are a reflection on most of us. That's uplifting.

The harsh & pious criticism of other programs by many of our fans (and many on this board) now seems laughable.

I hate hypocrites... I can respect just about anybody or anything if it is real.

I was actually a Bonds fan (before he made a fool of himself with the 'I didn't know I was taking steroids' defense). I always appreciated the WYSIWYG way about him; he was a prick and did not pretend he was not (just so somebody would pay him millions to endorse their product). I would have still respected him if he'd said "I never started taking juice until a bunch of talentless ass-clowns who could not hold my jock started setting records... and there were NO rules against using steroids when I did".

If I wanted to watch pro sports, I would. C'est la vie.

[EVCat]

Bickley is full of shit.

He knew, and knows, that ASU and every other school in the PAC participates. That's the thing...it isn't the coach. The coach doesn't determine this is going to happen.

This happens outside of the control of the coach. The coach just does his job and recruits. The rest shakes out or doesn't. Which is why you can say that, yeah, our coaching staff is clean.

Except Book.

And it sounds like, if 97Cats is correct from 10 pages ago, our coach might have actually been out in front of trying to deal with this. So give it time. Let's see how it plays out.

But, yeah...the rule is anytime adults spend a lot of money in the world of business, they get something in return for it.

[97cats]

Harvey, i dont disagree with the hypocrisy and the gutless justification to do something or validate cause everyone else is, but look at it from this perspective -- in order to survive in today's collge basketball climate at the premier level it was/is a necessary evil...whether someone wanted to or not or justified it as such because it was happening around them is irrelevant because in order to get the players to compete this was the practice.

sure this isnt linear to Stanford and Harvard, but they arent competing at the highest level.

i hope that makes sense, but a school like Arizona knew and knows what was required, and whether it fit in their moral compass or not it was the path that had to be taken to compete -- otherwise they (Arizona) would have re-calibrated its expectations and resigned to the fact they wouldn't be competing for Final Fours and hopefully National Championships.

i know thats somewhat disheartening and a bit circling, but unfortunately its just how it was up until 6am yesterday when Sean Miller got a knock on the front door, and heard the words:

Sean Miller, this is the FBI, may we have a word with you please.

[97cats]

And it sounds like, if 97Cats is correct from 10 pages ago, our coach might have actually been out in front of trying to deal with this. So give it time. Let's see how it plays out.

he 100% knew about this and knew this was coming and cooperated with the FBI prior to yesterday -- whether it pays dividends immediately or helps in the long run with the NCAA is still a massive unknown.

[EVCat]

[
^^^ This is where I have been. All of It. I don't know shit about AAU basketball because it does not interest me... but I love the rationalizations people embrace.

Are most people prone to greed over principle? Probably. Are all of them? No. Maybe in college hoops, but not in every walk of life.... but it always helps people who want to step over the line justify their actions by saying 'everybody else is doing it'... awesome, let's all swim in the cesspool together.

We shouldn't wonder why our politics are so fucked up; let's just look at ourselves. Most politicians are greedy, selfish, phony assholes because apparently they are a reflection on most of us. That's uplifting.

The harsh & pious criticism of other programs by many of our fans (and many on this board) now seems laughable.

I hate hypocrites... I can respect just about anybody or anything if it is real.

I was actually a Bonds fan (before he made a fool of himself with the 'I didn't know I was taking steroids' defense). I always appreciated the WYSIWYG way about him; he was a prick and did not pretend he was not (just so somebody would pay him millions to endorse their product). I would have still respected him if he'd said "I never started taking juice until a bunch of talentless ass-clowns who could not hold my jock started setting records... and there were NO rules against using steroids when I did".

If I wanted to watch pro sports, I would. C'est la vie.

So...you thought shoe companies paid ridiculous amounts of money for the love of the kids developing?

You thought all the joking about Jim Click being the guy our players need to go to back in the 80s and 90's was just joking?

There isn't some kind of prize for missing the signs. College basketball has been a cesspool for a long time. And there is a lot of money. Do you know of any other world with this kind of money in place for just forming a good relationship with a person that doesn't involve some nastiness?

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

And forgive me if I don't quite believe you follow college basketball and didn't know that club basketball was dirty and that we get kids from AAU, not high school ball. That's talked about on these boards all the time. And if you knew Adidas and Nike ran the AAU leagues, I believe you knew they were probably doing so for some reason. And that reason was a profit motive.

No...our coach doesn't cheat. But, yes...boosters and shoe companies do. I had no idea it was as systematic as 97Cats described. That was surprising to me. But did you really not know it happened?

Nothing Sean Miller has accomplished has been false. Because he competes against the same thing his school's supporters do in the background. He still had to win every recruiting battle. He didn't hand over money. This happens...and the coach has no power to stop it. It happened at Xavier. It still does. How do I know? Because they have top level players and a shoe contract.

But, yeah...it is shocking to hear how organized it is

[Spaceman Spiff]

Curse Hank of Sb all you want but he is closer to reality than most here are.

Bottom line is that the UA was caught on Tape.........not Kentucky, Duke, or UCLA. The NCAA is going to throw the 6/7 teams who were caught red handed under the bus........period. The only question is when will the NCAA get around to it?? This year or next??? My guess:

1) Paid player suspended (if they can figure out who he is)
2) No 2018 PAC12 tournament (Does anyone here really think that Larry Scott is going to forgive UA/Miller?)
3) No NCAA tournament (2018)
4) Loss of multiple scholarships for several years

And if thats all we get......we will be lucky.

We are not Duke.......we are (in the eyes of the NCAA) UNLV in Tucson.
Most everyone else on this board is seriously rationalizing

You're ignoring literally everything that's being said and reported on this with this line of thought. It's a big deal with a lot of people involved.

I don't think it is minimizing when people point out that the reality is that Arizona didn't do anything that is not common.

If the NCAA wants to blow us up for what Book did, they can. The issue is that there are a lot of similarly situated programs, and whether the NCAA wants to commit to the number of schools that could go down in this.

If you drop that penalty on Arizona, I agree with the estimate that there are a minimum of 100 D1 programs that have done things to earn a roughly comparable penalty.

[EVCat]

Harvey, i dont disagree with the hypocrisy and the gutless justification to do something or validate cause everyone else is, but look at it from this perspective -- in order to survive in today's collge basketball climate at the premier level it was/is a necessary evil...

And, at the end of the day...what is that evil?

The players at major universities...the top schools down quite a ways on the list...get money. That is earned on their backs.

There's a lot of tsk tsk and tut tutting going on here, like the schools are hurting people.

Instead, what you describe is a practice so widespread, it really takes away any real competitive advantage. You still have to get the recruits. And you would have a competitive advantage over Illinois Tech anyway. And, yes...and this I do know...NAU does it too. But not as high dollar, I suppose.

So, if it is the cost of business, and people are covering that cost, and it is not coming out of the school/tax dollar coffers, or the program coffers...this evil that is being perpetrated...results in some kids families getting $150,000 for being very good at their sport, in excess of their scholarship. This money does not hurt anyone else. It is not stolen money. It is not diverted from other, more worthwhile needs. It is not, really, representative of a competitive advantage because the same level schools are all doing it, and the coach still has to recruit and then X and O to a win.

So what we really have is some egos hurt that, for all the evidence otherwise, convinced themselves that our boosters and our shoe partners did not do this. Not here. They still know, based on the FBI so far and what you say, that our head coach and program do not participate in any cheating. That Book did, and that is why we may face some issues. But the kids on our team...their families may be enriched by as much as the annual salary of a lot of the upper middle class types who follow college athletics and post on boards.

I would love to see it all get cleaned up. I am surprised at how organized and systematic it is. But I guess I am not seeing this as evil. The end result is kids with a unique talent get a mere fraction of the money they are worth to their school (because, if you are getting $150,000 to come here, you are worth a LOT more than that), the money is paid knowingly and not from school funds, the school does not participate in this, and the only damage is to some idea that we were pure, even though the evidence suggests we are, at the least, just average, and at the most, maybe a little cleaner than most.

[CatFanOneMil]

Harvey, i dont disagree with the hypocrisy and the gutless justification to do something or validate cause everyone else is, but look at it from this perspective -- in order to survive in today's collge basketball climate at the premier level it was/is a necessary evil...whether someone wanted to or not or justified it as such because it was happening around them is irrelevant because in order to get the players to compete this was the practice.

sure this isnt linear to Stanford and Harvard, but they arent competing at the highest level.

i hope that makes sense, but a school like Arizona knew and knows what was required, and whether it fit in their moral compass or not it was the path that had to be taken to compete -- otherwise they (Arizona) would have re-calibrated its expectations and resigned to the fact they wouldn't be competing for Final Fours and hopefully National Championships.

i know thats somewhat disheartening and a bit circling, but unfortunately its just how it was up until 6am yesterday when Sean Miller got a knock on the front door, and heard the words:

Sean Miller, this is the FBI, may we have a word with you please.

I think people are making to much of this (if it is even a fact)...the FBI is not going to let anyones employer know before they arrest them, and since sean is employed by the State of Az it was most likely a courtesy call to let him know what/why/whom his former assistant was charged with what/where/when/how much...

If Miller is guilty of something he would have probably left in cuffs and Romar would be acting head coach today...lets not forget they had wire taps and recorded messages...it makes no sense to reel in the little guy if you have a big guy on the hook...

For everyone who is convinced that this is a systemic issue in College sports lets crunch the numbers shall we?

In many states there are "Ag-gag" laws in effect, essentially you can be tried as a terrorist if you film a meat processing plant...just for fucking filming it...let that sink in...these are STATE laws bought and paid for by Agri-lobby groups because, well food is big business...

IF (big if here) this is a widespread systemic issue involving multi-billion dollar shoe/apparel corps, do you not think the big guys would have set up similar loophole laws to avoid prosecution?

But as far as I can tell there are no real shoe-lobby laws even though there are all these nebulous claims that its been going on for years...all the smart folks protect themselves by creating laws to protect their business, it is the American way, hell our country is bought and paid for every election time, but I fail to see this kind of law-fare going on in the lucrative world of college BB...

On another note, if it is as widespread as people are suggesting then Pitino will squeal like a stuck pig I can guarantee it...there is no way he goes down and does not take the entire crime family down with him...he's much to smart to not have all the evidence he needs to topple the machine IF IT EXISTS AS SPECULATED...

I still say...its a few morally weak bad eggs and for the most part people are good.

[JMarkJohns]

I don't think I even care any more.

This has wrung it out of me. I got 2 hours sleep over something I cannot control.

Awful.

I'm done.

[97cats]

interesting take, EV -- i agree that most of the global issues with it a benign but there are rules in place that are being broken, and to some extent the law, people cant decide to do what they think is morally ok if its against the law, and what Book was doing was a federal offense.

its hard for me to take a firm position one way or the other, i just know the whole system needs to be re-worked and re-built cause what its morphed into is a cluster fuck of debauchery

[97cats]

I think people are making to much of this (if it is even a fact)...the FBI is not going to let anyones employer know before they arrest them, and since sean is employed by the State of Az it was most likely a courtesy call to let him know what/why/whom his former assistant was charged with what/where/when/how much...

youre wrong, Coach Miller was in contact with the FBI aiding this investigation loooong ago.

If Miller is guilty of something he would have probably left in cuffs and Romar would be acting head coach today...lets not forget they had wire taps and recorded messages...it makes no sense to reel in the little guy if you have a big guy on the hook...

coach Miller is not guilty in the eyes of the FBI -- thats been stated many times.

[Olsondogg]

So you really believe the NCAA is going to allow the UA to waltz into the 2018 tourney knowing we have a PAID player on our roster????

They'll never let that happen. But if they do, they will definitely get to the investigation later and vacate the title.

Sincerely,

Cam Newton's 2010-11 Auburn national title team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton" target="_blank

(See eligibility issues at bottom, in case you forgot)

Except that the NCAA didn't have Cam Newton ON TAPE!!

The UA is done with the Tourney for at least a year.

The NCAA doesn’t have him on tape. The fbi does you dolt

I'm pretty sure the NCAA reads the newspapers Sherlock

I don’t say this often, but you are literally too stupid to be real

[ChooChooCat]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

[Spaceman Spiff]

interesting take, EV -- i agree that most of the global issues with it a benign but there are rules in place that are being broken, and to some extent the law, people cant decide to do what they think is morally ok if its against the law, and what Book was doing was a federal offense.

its hard for me to take a firm position one way or the other, i just know the whole system needs to be re-worked and re-built cause what its morphed into is a cluster fuck of debauchery

Maybe I'm weird, but I'm more morally offended Book was taking money to send players to particular agencies than I am that top recruits here and elsewhere may have been paid.

Book's actions reek of putting his pocketbook before the lives of players. To advise them to sign with a firm not because it's best for the kid, but because the firm gave you $5,000, that is abdicating the base idea of helping players.

A player getting paid...well, if there wasn't a market, that wouldn't happen. Kids are simply relizing their worth. Yeah, it violates NCAA rules, but not the trust Book's actions appear to violate.

[CalStateTempe]

The use of supply chain management and economies of scale in cultivating players from elementary school to NBA is simply breathtaking to read.

I wonder if the FBI enlisted miller because they needed an actual team on board to seal this deal/indictment. He gave the Feds access to strengthen their claim against adidas. And miller hate adidias so much and this side of recruiting so much (get burned on tj leaf and others in the past) he was more then willing to help out.

If so...the NCAA is going to get us so hard being the roaches they are. And Larry Scott with permit it 100%

[Chicat]

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

Uh, WTF??

We weren't watching fucking dog fights. No one was abused. These kids got opportunities to get top notch instruction and training, a free education, and in at least some cases some money to help themselves and their families.

Please tell me why I should think of myself as a horrible person. This should be good...

[Hank of sb]

The use of supply chain management and economies of scale in cultivating players from elementary school to NBA is simply breathtaking to read.

I wonder if the FBI enlisted miller because they needed an actual team on board to seal this deal/indictment. He gave the Feds access to strengthen their claim against adidas. And miller hate adidias so much and this side of recruiting so much (get burned on tj leaf and others in the past) he was more then willing to help out.

If so...the NCAA is going to get us so hard being the roaches they are. And Larry Scott with permit it 100%

Uhm. My understanding is the FBI didn't enlist Miller. Miller contacted them because he knew he better ASAP.

[gumby]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

[gumby]

Greg Byrne: "Looks like I got out just in ... doh!"

[UAEebs86]

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

Uh, WTF??

We weren't watching fucking dog fights. No one was abused. These kids got opportunities to get top notch instruction and training, a free education, and in at least some cases some money to help themselves and their families.

Please tell me why I should think of myself as a horrible person. This should be good...

I think you and EVCat are in agreement. He might have just had poor punctuation there. Re-read it - I think he's saying we weren't horrible people for watching.

[Chicat]

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

Uh, WTF??

We weren't watching fucking dog fights. No one was abused. These kids got opportunities to get top notch instruction and training, a free education, and in at least some cases some money to help themselves and their families.

Please tell me why I should think of myself as a horrible person. This should be good...

I think you and EVCat are in agreement. He might have just had poor punctuation there. Re-read it - I think he's saying we weren't horrible people for watching.

Hmmmm, apologies EV if that's the case. That last clause still sticks out to me though.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

I'm not an expert in NCAA rules, but AAU organizations can receive $ for soft influence over players and I don't think it's a violation. The layers of handlers, summer coaches, advisors and AAU orgs have so much vitality because they can affect the thinking of players.

Why do Nike, Adidas and Under Armour pour tons of money into AAU? It's an investment in the stars of tomorrow, not a gift. If you do it right, it doesn't have to be a violation.

[Chicat]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

Knew the extent? The type of money? Very few fans. But probably quite a few people whose livelihoods depend on these kids and those programs.

I knew Arizona kids got taken care of. Thought it was more of the hundred dollar handshake variety. I was apparently wrong in some cases.

[Chicat]

This fucking asshole again...

[Bruins01]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

Knew the extent? The type of money? Very few fans. But probably quite a few people whose livelihoods depend on these kids and those programs.

I knew Arizona kids got taken care of. Thought it was more of the hundred dollar handshake variety. I was apparently wrong in some cases.

We all knew it, even, I suspect, the idiots who clutched their pearls while claiming that only Arizona (or UCLA, in BRO's case) would never cheat. What should bother everyone is that due to deeply stupid NCAA amateurism rules, paying players has to be done in the dark, where the athletes can only be more easily manipulated and taken advantage of.

Ditch amateurism, let the best players be bid on out in the open, and end this charade.

[gumby]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

I'm not an expert in NCAA rules, but AAU organizations can receive $ for soft influence over players and I don't think it's a violation. The layers of handlers, summer coaches, advisors and AAU orgs have so much vitality because they can affect the thinking of players.

Why do Nike, Adidas and Under Armour pour tons of money into AAU? It's an investment in the stars of tomorrow, not a gift. If you do it right, it doesn't have to be a violation.

I'm thinking more about the universities' connection to this. I've been reading that this could spawn some lawsuits from kids/parents. Something like: "You assured us Biff was eligible. Now he isn't. Now he can never play at a college. We want damages."

Should be interesting to see if courts agree and if they do, what value they put on playing college hoops (even though they aren't legally paid).

Should also be interesting to see if universities try to prove the parents and kids were in on the ruse all along,

Depositions should be fascinating. What will people say under oath? Then we don't have to speculate any more about how this all works.

OTOH, there could be settlements where everybody signs confidentiality agreements to keep the corruption on the down-low.

I'm rooting for at least one trial.

[ChooChooCat]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

If I told you I knew the exact details I'd be a bold faced liar. I knew these things were taking place though and I knew that AAU was the cesspool of corruption. If you asked me how much money and how the money was distributed I couldn't tell you, but I know the power these AAU brokers have and the vast majority of recruitments you see are ran through and by these brokers. The real topic of debate is now will those brokers still run it tomorrow after all of this?

[CalStateTempe]

The use of supply chain management and economies of scale in cultivating players from elementary school to NBA is simply breathtaking to read.

I wonder if the FBI enlisted miller because they needed an actual team on board to seal this deal/indictment. He gave the Feds access to strengthen their claim against adidas. And miller hate adidias so much and this side of recruiting so much (get burned on tj leaf and others in the past) he was more then willing to help out.

If so...the NCAA is going to get us so hard being the roaches they are. And Larry Scott with permit it 100%

Uhm. My understanding is the FBI didn't enlist Miller. Miller contacted them because he knew he better ASAP.

All I'm theorizing is once miller contacted them, the FBI saw this as a valuable program witness and was the icing on their current cake. I could certainly be (am) wrong. Just a guess.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

Knew the extent? The type of money? Very few fans. But probably quite a few people whose livelihoods depend on these kids and those programs.

I knew Arizona kids got taken care of. Thought it was more of the hundred dollar handshake variety. I was apparently wrong in some cases.

We all knew it, even, I suspect, the idiots who clutched their pearls while claiming that only Arizona (or UCLA, in BRO's case) would never cheat. What should bother everyone is that due to deeply stupid NCAA amateurism rules, paying players has to be done in the dark, where the athletes can only be more easily manipulated and taken advantage of.

Ditch amateurism, let the best players be bid on out in the open, and end this charade.

You know, I've disagreed with you a zillion times on the political board, and it's weird that this is the issue that I'm totally with you on. It's a topsy turvy week for sure.

[ASUHATER!]

I don't think I even care any more.

This has wrung it out of me. I got 2 hours sleep over something I cannot control.

Awful.

I'm done.

I'm pretty much there to until we know how this is going to fully affect our program. I don't know what to do as a fan and since our football program completely sucks I'm quicklyy losing my interest in being as hardcore of a college sports fan as I am. At least with pro sports there's no veneer around the money, we all know it's about the money and it's out in the open. If we come out of this as one of the better guys with Miller helping the FBI and not crazy big NCAA sanctions I'll still be a huge fan rooting for cleaning up the sport but if this tears down our program as we know it I'm not sure I can be the same level of a college sports fan.

[CalStateTempe]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

[CalStateTempe]

I'm with you on the above bruins.

[Main Event]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

Rawle

[Gilbertcat]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

I assume he heard about Rawle

[TheGreatCatsby]

Bryne still did leave a dumpster fire...no nice indoor practice facility started, Rich Rod program moribund, that'll have to be dealt with, his firing and replacement, after Bryne hired him... crappy football attendance, that sordid track coach lawsuit vs. student, now Book. A potential Miller situation. Overall I liked Bryne, and alot of this not particularly his fault, but he did leave timely. He can sacrifice a few basketball goats at Alabama to keep attention away from the football program.

As for Miller, the spectrum as to his role- on one side complete betrayal by Book to willfully complicit in the scheme on the other. Maybe he's in a gray area in between, willful ignorance, Heeke at some point will have to render some judgment, but as a UA fan hope he really didn't know what was going on and we don't get hammered as a program for lack of institutional control for the lone acts of an alleged, so far, criminal.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This fucking asshole again...

Who is that? Is there a reason people should give him.any credibility?

[Longhorned]

Who has read this extremely long and detailed overview article, The Inside Story of How the FBI Rocked College Basketball?

The reason I ask is because it makes some things clear:

1) Business as usual seems to be exactly as 97cats describes it to be (no surprise);

2) What Book Richardson did was horrible and outside of business as usual, and worse yet for getting himself hooked at the PAC-12 tourney;

3) FBI agents at 6 AM MST knocking on the door of innocent people with a need-to-know was something that was happening outside Tucson;

4) The illicit connection of Nike's elite youth basketball program to bad shit appears to be a single individual (Merl Code) who is the bridge between EYB and Adidas;

5) Book Richardson, the jackass par excellence, is the smallest fish in the whole scandal by several orders magnitude, though probably the stupidest.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... corruption" target="_blank

[EVCat]

I am not going to accept that because I, along with almost everyone, could see there was shady stuff going on in college basketball, we were all horrible people for watching.

Uh, WTF??

We weren't watching fucking dog fights. No one was abused. These kids got opportunities to get top notch instruction and training, a free education, and in at least some cases some money to help themselves and their families.

Please tell me why I should think of myself as a horrible person. This should be good...

Umm..i don't. Maybe read it again.

I was called a hypocrite for "knowing" And still watching and calling out other teams.

I am guessing you haven't read any of my posts

[gumby]

Certainly didn't know $150k was the going rate for a star player. I suspect others didn't either or they wouldn't have mocked other schools when they were caught with what looks like low-level violations compared to $150k -- loans, plane tickets, etc. What was the point of calling other schools/coaches corrupt when we were, too?

Then there's all the talk of paying players because they can't go to movies and take a girl out on a date. What was that all about, if we all knew the going rate?

Your mistake is you think the money goes to the players directly. $150K can sometimes go directly to the players and or their families, but most of the time it's to whomever is handling that recruitment i.e. AAU coaches/directors.

Correction acknowledged, but I didn't know this either. And it still isn't clean. So can't call other schools corrupt or say "we do things the right way" when this was supposedly common knowledge.

How many people knew this? Serious question.

Knew the extent? The type of money? Very few fans. But probably quite a few people whose livelihoods depend on these kids and those programs.

I knew Arizona kids got taken care of. Thought it was more of the hundred dollar handshake variety. I was apparently wrong in some cases.

We all knew it, even, I suspect, the idiots who clutched their pearls while claiming that only Arizona (or UCLA, in BRO's case) would never cheat. What should bother everyone is that due to deeply stupid NCAA amateurism rules, paying players has to be done in the dark, where the athletes can only be more easily manipulated and taken advantage of.

Ditch amateurism, let the best players be bid on out in the open, and end this charade.

What would the revenue source be? Same for all schools?

Where would the games be played? Would they have to attend classes, or is that charade continued? If not, what's the connection to college? Or are you advocating the club sport model?

Who would be "the best players?" Don't pay the others? If not, how to stop them from getting paid under the table?

Pay the swimmers and cross country runners, too? Or just the ones in revenue-generating sports? What if basketball doesn't make money at a school? Don't pay those players?

Pay boys more than girls?

Who negotiates this pay? Can it be more at one school than another, like the pros?

Always hear pay them. Never seen how it would work. Seems like it would be a lot easier if you went club sports to avoid the complications noted above.

[azgreg]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

He's probably referring to Alkins.

[CalStateTempe]

Well maybe at some point today he'll catch up to 9/27/17.

[Spaceman Spiff]

To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.

1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.

[ChooChooCat]

Bryne still did leave a dumpster fire...no nice indoor practice facility started, Rich Rod program moribund, that'll have to be dealt with, his firing and replacement, after Bryne hired him... crappy football attendance, that sordid track coach lawsuit vs. student, now Book. A potential Miller situation. Overall I liked Bryne, and alot of this not particularly his fault, but he did leave timely. He can sacrifice a few basketball goats at Alabama to keep attention away from the football program.

As for Miller, the spectrum as to his role- on one side complete betrayal by Book to willfully complicit in the scheme on the other. Maybe he's in a gray area in between, willful ignorance, Heeke at some point will have to render some judgment, but as a UA fan hope he really didn't know what was going on and we don't get hammered as a program for lack of institutional control for the lone acts of an alleged, so far, criminal.

Byrne fired what was equivalent to Austin Carroll on our staff. He sure took a major stand.

[ChooChooCat]

To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.

1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.

What does Title IX dictate though?

[Hank of sb]

Book Richardson, the jackass par excellence, is the smallest fish in the whole scandal by several orders magnitude, though probably the stupidest.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... corruption" target="_blank

We all know the cliche: We are all only as good as the weakest link.

Here's another: Control freaks eventually lose control, usually in spectacular fashion.

[YoDeFoe]

This fucking asshole again...

What is he alluding to or is he just throwing at the wall to see what sticks?

He's probably referring to Alkins.

Referring to Alkins broken foot in his follow up tweet.