Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:12 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Byrne fired what was equivalent to Austin Carroll on our staff. He sure took a major stand.

Hopefully he didn't learn too much from Book...

I can only assume this was also going on at Washington. Porter Jr, Fultz, Chriss, IT, Roy...

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:13 am

New team logos

https://imgur.com/a/1RlAv" target="_blank

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:13 am

Does it make any sense for Miller to find out who Book was referring to and try to get ahead of it? Denial and conducting business as usual until the FBI is done just seems ridiculous. This may take a long, long time. If we are proactive that gives us some chance at saving the season, no? I mean even if we win the natty this year it would almost assuredly be voided at some point.

Also, does anyone know if there's a precedent already for the FBI sharing information with a third party that's not involved in the investigation like the NCAA? Would they, or can they? Sorry if this was answered already I'm caught up but only in fragments.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:14 am

I'll preface this by disclosing that I work in healthcare legal and regulatory compliance....

I Don't care if "(most) everyone is doing it", and/or if "it's necessary to compete at the highest level". Not. One. Bit.

I hope as many as possible who have in fact participated in this corruption becomes a convicted felon and does hard time. Period.

The only exception I'd support would be (most of) the athletes and their immediate family members, if they turn "state's evidenve" and fully disclose all payments and/or offers.

I just Don't fucking care for cheaters.

prh · Post by **prh** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:15 am

NYCat wrote:

This guy is tweeting a lot but it's pretty clear he isn't any sort of insider, he's just another random dude.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:16 am

I generally agree but then you need to agree to there not being any college football or basketball for a few seasons to reset everything. And also you need to apologize for spending money and being a fan and watching the games since whatever year you started.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:16 am

pc in NM wrote:
Frybry02 wrote:I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.
"nailing the NCAA" for what? What Federal crime might the NCAA have committed?

I believe the NCAA is at risk because amateur basketball is at risk.

As long as the one-and-done exists, Shoe Companies will be looking for early access to the next possible pro superstar to be on their team - the money involved per true blue-chip athlete is a small investment that could reap huge future rewards....

If it comes to making this level of the sport just another level of professional sports, then there is honestly no place for universities, especially state-run universities, being in the "business" - then the NCAA is "nailed", because it is obsolete....

The money will be followed. College basketball is major revenue generator for the NCAA. They turned their head and kept marching with their amateurism banner. The FBI is bringing to light what the NCAA should have done decades ago. Because of that, I am curious what role NCAA played, if any. I can't believe the NCAA is a victim in this.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:21 am

Olsondogg wrote:Do people think Olson ran a "clean" program? Just wondering...

if they do, they're bat shit crazier than JesseWildcat

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:23 am

prh wrote:
NYCat wrote:
This guy is tweeting a lot but it's pretty clear he isn't any sort of insider, he's just another random dude.

Scheer claims he is an insider. I'm not sure he'd be remotely aware of what the FBI has at this point though.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:25 am

As a side note is it too much to ask for Wisconsin basketball to be implicated in this more so than anybody else? They're Adidas aren't they? Can they burn for eternity please?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:28 am

ChooChooCat wrote:As a side note is it too much to ask for Wisconsin basketball to be implicated in this more so than anybody else? They're Adidas aren't they? Can they burn for eternity please?

probably, they are one of the cleaner programs along with Michigan and Stanford

ZONACAT · Post by **ZONACAT** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:28 am

NYCat wrote:

Disagree.

NorCalCat · Post by **NorCalCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:29 am

97cats wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:Do people think Olson ran a "clean" program? Just wondering...
if they do, they're bat shit crazier than JesseWildcat

Wait! I thought Chris Mills was just borrowing that tricked out convertible Mustang. Mind blown.......

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:32 am

ZONACAT wrote:
NYCat wrote:
Disagree.

Amongst every thing he's tweeted that tweet sounds like absolute hearsay at this point. Nobody worth a shit anywhere is talking.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:35 am

97cats wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:As a side note is it too much to ask for Wisconsin basketball to be implicated in this more so than anybody else? They're Adidas aren't they? Can they burn for eternity please?
probably, they are one of the cleaner programs along with Michigan and Stanford

I want Utah. Please let Utah go down.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:39 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
Frybry02 wrote:I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.
I don't know if they were shocked at the results of the probe, maybe that the FBI got involved. But nobody wanted this to come to light, especially the NCAA or all of the companies that profit off this.
This. This one one reason why I can't believe the NCAA wants to be too aggressive. They don't want to be banning Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Arizona, Kansas, UCLA, Louisville and the rest from the postseason.

You wind up with a 32 team tournament where your #1 seed Oakland University takes on IUPUI's JV squad in the first round. No corporate partner is giving you money for that ****.

Yeah, I bet if you look at last years NCAA Tournament Seeding and strike out those teams that could be involved with Scandal over the past ten years, you may have 10-12 teams left. Don't think we will need any Play-in games this year either! That or cancel all secondary tournaments going on a the same time - they won't be needed. Even Dick Vitale may need to be suspended just for the sake of it - don't allow him to commentate any Duke games this year, it would literally kill him.

College Basketball may never be the same.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:41 am

Dakich is a bitch

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:47 am

I will not stand for the cheaters either. Do you all hear me?

That said, I want the absolutely best players to come to my school every year so we can win yearly PAC regular season titles, always be a one (or two, I guess) seed, hit a final four every other year or so and get one or two titles a decade.

Oh and if you don't deliver those players yes, it will cost you your jobs.

But *bangs fist on table* I will not stand for the cheaters!

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:48 am

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:The thing that I am dreading the most is Bill Walton's take on this issue for the entirety of the season

"Book Richardson! Thank you for our lives!"

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:48 am

threenumberones wrote:Does it make any sense for Miller to find out who Book was referring to and try to get ahead of it? Denial and conducting business as usual until the FBI is done just seems ridiculous. This may take a long, long time. If we are proactive that gives us some chance at saving the season, no? I mean even if we win the natty this year it would almost assuredly be voided at some point.

Also, does anyone know if there's a precedent already for the FBI sharing information with a third party that's not involved in the investigation like the NCAA? Would they, or can they? Sorry if this was answered already I'm caught up but only in fragments.

There's no getting in front of this, leave all communication to lawyers. The FBI is on a roll investigating this, they've kicked a portion of what they had to the US Attorney in the Southern District of NY, we don't know what else they have or who they have it on until more indictments get handed down. All we know is part one, how many parts are left. Who knows?

Book may plea and never go to trial, then there's no public record of what he did outside his allocution as a part of his plea bargain. Then it's up to getting FOIA info out of the FBI.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:50 am

NYCat wrote:Dakich is a bitch

It's the smart thing to do for any small fish scooped up in a conspiracy. Roll on the bigger fish.

BibbysTowelDude · Post by **BibbysTowelDude** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:52 am

I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

prh · Post by **prh** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:54 am

NYCat wrote:Dakich is a bitch

Dakich is one of the absolute worst in CBB, I have no idea how ESPN lets him trash schools and attack individual students. Everything he has said on this so far cements him as scum.

However, bigger question: (if true) who is Book singing about? I'd think it's about Adidas and other shoe people. FBI doesn't care about Sean or the program. FBI is going after shoe companies.

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:55 am

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:57 am

Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?

sirhamsalot · Post by **sirhamsalot** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:58 am

Jefe wrote:New team logos

https://imgur.com/a/1RlAv" target="_blank

I'd buy a t-shirt with that logo.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:59 am

I'm in wait and see mode.

There's limited info out there in a whirlwind of bullshit. I'm not getting stressed about something that's out of all of our hands. Whatever happens, I'll deal with it.

Sort of like the Serenity Prayer.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:59 am

WildcatStunner wrote:Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?

Source: https://twitter.com/IndyWhiskeyAz" target="_blank

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:00 pm

Someone needs to make that shirt with "Final" next to our new logo if we make it this year

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 pm

Might as well embrace it. The program will always be seen as dirty no matter the outcome.

84Cat wrote:
WildcatStunner wrote:Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?

Source: https://twitter.com/IndyWhiskeyAz" target="_blank

Came from Reddit actually, not that it really matters

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegebasketb ... /72y1mw/_/" target="_blank

sirhamsalot · Post by **sirhamsalot** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 pm

Jefe wrote:Someone needs to make that shirt with "Final" next to our new logo if we make it this year

Omg! Yes!

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:02 pm

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

Preach. Nobody knows the whole story.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:06 pm

prh wrote:
NYCat wrote:Dakich is a bitch

Dakich is one of the absolute worst in CBB, I have no idea how ESPN lets him trash schools and attack individual students. Everything he has said on this so far cements him as scum.

However, bigger question: (if true) who is Book singing about? I'd think it's about Adidas and other shoe people. FBI doesn't care about Sean or the program. FBI is going after shoe companies.

I agree with this. I would be stunned if the FBI cares who on Arizona's roster might have broken NCAA rules. To use RG's Godfather analogy, the FBI cares about the puppetmasters, not the puppets.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:06 pm

wyo-cat wrote:
threenumberones wrote:Does it make any sense for Miller to find out who Book was referring to and try to get ahead of it? Denial and conducting business as usual until the FBI is done just seems ridiculous. This may take a long, long time. If we are proactive that gives us some chance at saving the season, no? I mean even if we win the natty this year it would almost assuredly be voided at some point.

Also, does anyone know if there's a precedent already for the FBI sharing information with a third party that's not involved in the investigation like the NCAA? Would they, or can they? Sorry if this was answered already I'm caught up but only in fragments.
There's no getting in front of this, leave all communication to lawyers. The FBI is on a roll investigating this, they've kicked a portion of what they had to the US Attorney in the Southern District of NY, we don't know what else they have or who they have it on until more indictments get handed down. All we know is part one, how many parts are left. Who knows?

Book may plea and never go to trial, then there's no public record of what he did outside his allocution as a part of his plea bargain. Then it's up to getting FOIA info out of the FBI.

FOIA wouldn't come into play until after the investigation and prosecutions are over tho, right? That will probably take a long while. The NCAA has to act in the mean time. This just can't linger over the sport with only the lawyers communicating. Plus UofA will do their own investigation, as will just about any other university that is 'rumored' to be participating. Will the entire athletics department be part of the denial then?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:09 pm

enfuego wrote:
BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.

Does any of that hard evidence exist? That's the question, and in the FBI info, it doesn't.

Book asks for money regarding Quinerly, but he's not on our roster. There's a reference to one other player we have on our current roster being already taken care of, but that's a statement from Dawkins without followup.

There's a distinct possibility more comes out, but right now, the only thing we could self-sanction is Book's conduct with Quinerly. I think we should do that, but at the point we're certain about whether any more exists.

BibbysTowelDude · Post by **BibbysTowelDude** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:11 pm

enfuego wrote:
BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.

No shit Sherlock.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:17 pm

I hate to wade through this stuff. It is so disappointing. That said I still think Miller is above board and my love for the UofA is not shaken or is my trust of Miller as steward of our bball program. I stand behind him and the players and I feel bad they are being put under the microscope to clean up college basketball from the shoe companies greed and attitude.

Going to be interesting when we hit the road and see the funny stuff other student bodies come up with. Might also be interesting to see how the attendance suffers next year as season ticket renewals may suffer. I will be renewing mine in support of our athletic department

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:17 pm

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

The fact that this is coming to light does not void the NCAA's idealistic view of amateurism. And I'd bet that view is also shared by the vast majority of ADs, including ours. The entire NCAA ecosystem (outside of coaches) is not willing to just 'wait and see' based on a hypothesis that since everyone is cheating it's won't be considered cheating in the future. This is way too big to stay idle and I'd be shocked if our AD did nothing.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:19 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
gumby wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.

1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.
More details, please. Are they employees of the college or the outside forces?

How does mixing nonprofit and for-profit ventures navigate labor and tax laws? What if schools DO compensate beyond current scholarships, as they do now, to gain an advantage? NCAA still there to enforce? (Doing such a great job now).

Seems the market would dictate to colleges: cut your non-rev sports to free up money for the bidding or say hello to the bottom of the standings.

Would the charade of attending classes (for many) continue? Or is that veneer needed to keep these events on campuses (rather than club sports)?
The school's relationship with the player is identical. Zero money is going college to player.

Outside sources are paying the player. The comparison is a normal student who gets a job at a pizza place. That does not impact the student's scholarship money or legit $.

The player is related to the school in the same way as now. Right now there is an artificial prohibition on players making money from their status outside that. The only thing my proposal does is eliminate that prohibition. The institution/player relationship unchanged.

OK. So not an employee. Not an amateur. A student. Money doesn't come from TV contracts, because that money goes to schools.

Outside sources no longer affiliated with particular schools? Just go right to the kid. No reason to sweat which school the kid chooses. Coaches don't need to sweat where the $150k comes from.

No Nike Schools, etc. I'd like that.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:19 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
enfuego wrote:
BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.
Does any of that hard evidence exist? That's the question, and in the FBI info, it doesn't.

Book asks for money regarding Quinerly, but he's not on our roster. There's a reference to one other player we have on our current roster being already taken care of, but that's a statement from Dawkins without followup.

There's a distinct possibility more comes out, but right now, the only thing we could self-sanction is Book's conduct with Quinerly. I think we should do that, but at the point we're certain about whether any more exists.

Yea, based on what they have there isn't much. But I'm assuming the AD's statement about an internal investigation is sincere and that they are adhering to NCAA policy. Unless they purposefully handicap the effort, they will find something.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:21 pm

If you are following Dakich on Twitter, or in life at all for that matter, you are doing it wrong.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:21 pm

Don't take this as disrespect, but I'm in the opposite camp.

If someone only broke NCAA rules to give a player money, I don't think that should warrant NCAA punishment, let alone criminal punishment. When the FBI says $150,000 is the going rate for a top 20 recruit, it's for a reason.

When I see the NCAA making 1.1 billion a year off TV rights to the tourney...well, that only exists due to the players. They make the money. Arizona generates approximately a 10 million basketball profit a year.

For me, it's closer to cheating that players generate 10 mil profit a year and are prohibited from realizing their actual value.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:31 pm

SCCats wrote:I will not stand for the cheaters either. Do you all hear me?

That said, I want the absolutely best players to come to my school every year so we can win yearly PAC regular season titles, always be a one (or two, I guess) seed, hit a final four every other year or so and get one or two titles a decade.

Oh and if you don't deliver those players yes, it will cost you your jobs.

But *bangs fist on table* I will not stand for the cheaters!

Basically this. We can't expect the best of both worlds in this situation given the nature of the beast that has existed for apparently quite some time. If a head coach wants to be a saint and blow the whistle to clean things up "because honesty, integrity," he may as well start applying at other jobs. You also have to remember, even if Lute, Miller, and some of these other coaches are generally very good people who just turn a blind eye to things because there is no other option, the positive influence and life lessons these coaches pass on to these young men far outweighs turning the blind eye. I wont apologize for saying that, for my own sons, give me Sean Miller or Lute ahead of Ned Flanders, who may be a saint but has been sheltered from reality and is unable to teach them real life, and who is a mediocre or lower basketball coach.

Someone said it in the other thread, basically that the only "losers" in all of this are the fans. I mean Jesus, if losers get a top 25 program every year and compete for final fours on a semi-regular basis, hand me my L. My personal opinion, dont roast me, but to me, the only fans who should be completely outraged are those small schools/schools outside of the top 100. This type of stuff is just a reality in the world we live in. We see it in sports, politics, religion, business, it is everywhere. Nothing involving money is going to be completely honest, and most of the time, it's going to be downright ugly. The root of all evil, we just aren't privy to a lot of what goes on until something like this comes up.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:32 pm

gumby wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
gumby wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.

1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.
More details, please. Are they employees of the college or the outside forces?

How does mixing nonprofit and for-profit ventures navigate labor and tax laws? What if schools DO compensate beyond current scholarships, as they do now, to gain an advantage? NCAA still there to enforce? (Doing such a great job now).

Seems the market would dictate to colleges: cut your non-rev sports to free up money for the bidding or say hello to the bottom of the standings.

Would the charade of attending classes (for many) continue? Or is that veneer needed to keep these events on campuses (rather than club sports)?
The school's relationship with the player is identical. Zero money is going college to player.

Outside sources are paying the player. The comparison is a normal student who gets a job at a pizza place. That does not impact the student's scholarship money or legit $.

The player is related to the school in the same way as now. Right now there is an artificial prohibition on players making money from their status outside that. The only thing my proposal does is eliminate that prohibition. The institution/player relationship unchanged.
OK. So not an employee. Not an amateur. A student. Money doesn't come from TV contracts, because that money goes to schools.

Outside sources no longer affiliated with particular schools? Just go right to the kid. No reason to sweat which school the kid chooses. Coaches don't need to sweat where the $150k comes from.

No Nike Schools, etc. I'd like that.

I don't see any need to uncouple Nike/Adidas, etc. from outfitting schools. If Adidas thinks De'Andre Ayton would be better at Kansas, they can offer him double what Nike does and he can take it or not.

The reality is that a shoe company is going to use $ to steer a player towards a program that will return the player to the shoe company when they go pro.

The shoe companies are not part of the school just due to the contract with the school. They can maintain those contracts or not, but if they choose to individually sponsor players beyond that, I see no reason that it has to influence anything.

The student equivalent: Company X donates a ton of money to Neurological Research at Arizona, including equipment. Company X sees talented High School Student Y, who looks like a budding superstar in Neurological Research. Company X tells Student Y that they will pay full room, board and incidentals for Student Y to attend Arizona if she agrees she'll come work for Company X after graduation.

Is that bad? Switch Company X to Nike and Student Y to Jahvon Quinerly. Is it bad now?

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:32 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:I generally agree but then you need to agree to there not being any college football or basketball for a few seasons to reset everything. And also you need to apologize for spending money and being a fan and watching the games since whatever year you started.

Well, if it's as extensive as many here are claiming, some drastic measures would be necessary. I'd live with whatever it takes.... Honestly, I think this only accelerates the inevitable drastic changes already likely for CBB

Apologize to whom? I have nothing whatsoever to apologize for in any of my tenure as a college sports fan.

Now, maybe I'll have to come to terms with being a naive idealist, a fool, or a chump. Maybe I need to consider the possibility of unconsciously willful blindness - but I won't apologize for any of those possibilities - I'm the only "victim" in any of those instances.

I'll hold out hope that Miller is guilt free here (even while the overwhelming majority here seem to already implicitly accepting his quilt, but hope he will evade acvountability). I've always admired him immensely; it will/would be devastating to learn otherwise.

But, as they say, "If you can't do the time, Don't do the crime"

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:33 pm

pc in NM wrote:
Frybry02 wrote:I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.
"nailing the NCAA" for what? What Federal crime might the NCAA have committed?

I believe the NCAA is at risk because amateur basketball is at risk.

As long as the one-and-done exists, Shoe Companies will be looking for early access to the next possible pro superstar to be on their team - the money involved per true blue-chip athlete is a small investment that could reap huge future rewards....

If it comes to making this level of the sport just another level of professional sports, then there is honestly no place for universities, especially state-run universities, being in the "business" - then the NCAA is "nailed", because it is obsolete....

The connection to college grows thinner all the time. Can't see the NCAA just surrendering and putting itself out of business. So they will probably be punitive, and that will suck.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:34 pm

No one is guilt free in this business.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:36 pm

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

My man.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:36 pm

People lie and cheat daily, everywhere...as far as scandals go, this is not something I want anyone to do "hard time" for. That's ridiculous IMO.

I mean the Paterno and Penn St. stuff sure, that's a given...people should forever be talking about that. Death penalty for the Athletic Department.

On that note, who does Penn State play this weekend?

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