Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[ChooChooCat]

Someone posted this on FB clever.

If we make it to the Final Four someone better make shirts with this logo. I will riot if it doesn't happen.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

Meaningless IMO. Where is USC's support for Enfield? Auburn's for Pearl? Okie State for whoever the hell coaches their school? Tucson media just trying to stir up shit at the moment and nothing more. They're relevant right now Merkin, they want to keep it that way.

All the schools were blindsided. They had no investigation in the works and are starting from the same place we did, reading the FBI complaint and wondering. No one's going to jump up with a vote of confidence with a day to investigate.

[ChooChooCat]

Choo said it more succinctly than me. Well done.

I didn't see your post before I posted mine and I like your post and overall tact better than my own. The local media currently deserves no less for how they're handling this.

[Beachcat97]

Miller didn't break the law, so I'm not seeing a rationale for dismissing him. Firing him will damage the program in a way we've literally never seen before. It will cast suspicion on all the good seasons he's had at AZ, effectively forfeit the entire 2017-18 season, do irreparable damage to the program's standing nationally (even internationally), and erode local support for the team.

Suspend him or penalize him some other way, put him on probation, and start to move forward. We need Sean Miller and will be absolutely f***ed if he's fired.

[CalStateTempe]

Makes me sick choo.

Idiots.

Beachcat bringing it! Solid take dude.

[Dosia]

Yeah if they fire Miller, I'm ready to riot. F that noise.

[EVCat]

think it would be a colossal mistake to fire Sean prematurely, before seeing how this all shakes out. Unless he is a bag man, but I highly doubt that.

We would be screwed if this hits and 46 top schools are implicated but our coach is not directly and everyone else just resets, with the NCAA saying "we can't have a tournament with IUPUI as the #1 seed so...everyone involves loses 2 scholarships and is on probation without postseason ban and let's start over with players who were caught by the FBI suspended" and there we are, the ones with no coach and no power to hire a geeat one. Because forget Romar...you don't think he was involved at UW? He had Porter and Fultz? We should be doing whatever it is we can, reasonably, to hold onto Sean, to keep him unless he is directly implicated. Because he is miles beyond what we will get on the open market now.

[Hank of sb]

Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

sorry, but this is bullshit. What is Miller directly accused of? What has he done wrong? What is he or any others supposed to say about the FBI investigation?

Show of support for what? "We'd like to support Coach Miller in a situation where his coach was arrested...."

Stupid. They made a statement, a few in fact...one mentioning an internal investigation. Hansen is going hansen on this and adding to the pressure that has been mentioned in this thread from the local media.

Miller has been under pressure (as stupid as I think it is) at the end of every season that doesn't end with a Final 4. Obviously this year is different at the onset. Lot's of people were expecting more things to happen (ironically? like at Alabama) and when things are quiet, people get nervous when the hounds at the door bark louder.

But shit like that Hansen stuff and the idiotic mumblings of "fans" waking up to the realities of big business are annoying.

I truthfully worry about Miller going down the road of "I don't fucking care about this shit anymore, I just want to coach..." and sitting on a beach for a couple years and popping up somewhere else.

That's my worry.

What do you mean by the question WHAT HAS MILLER DONE WRONG?

(1) Book is under indictment and will settle. Hence we already know he is guilty.
(2) We know a player on the team has a family member who has received money.

Those two things for sure. Miller's integrity has been and will continue to called out. Probably forever it will be called out.

Hence, Arizona has a problem that's bigger than Miller's problem.

Given the Independent Council will now turn over every rock, what might be the odds going forward that there's nothing else?

A settlement and a parting of ways might be the best way out at this point. For both sides!

[HiCat]

My opinion is that the university must make a decision on Miller sooner than later for this season. They cannot suddenly decide to let Miller go 1 week before the season or during the year.

I personally believe They have this weekend weekend to decide if they are going with Miller through thick and thin or it's time to move on.

I'm curious if we poll this board what the results would be 65/35 keep Miller?

If so, I'm still completely lost as to what reason 35% would want Miller gone, unless it's an unrelated issue about his coaching or personal.

Maybe we should do a poll. Let's see where the chips fall eh.

But I'm with you LH, why indeed. Where's the beef?

[Beachcat97]

Exactly, EVC.

[Olsondogg]

Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

sorry, but this is bullshit. What is Miller directly accused of? What has he done wrong? What is he or any others supposed to say about the FBI investigation?

Show of support for what? "We'd like to support Coach Miller in a situation where his coach was arrested...."

Stupid. They made a statement, a few in fact...one mentioning an internal investigation. Hansen is going hansen on this and adding to the pressure that has been mentioned in this thread from the local media.

Miller has been under pressure (as stupid as I think it is) at the end of every season that doesn't end with a Final 4. Obviously this year is different at the onset. Lot's of people were expecting more things to happen (ironically? like at Alabama) and when things are quiet, people get nervous when the hounds at the door bark louder.

But shit like that Hansen stuff and the idiotic mumblings of "fans" waking up to the realities of big business are annoying.

I truthfully worry about Miller going down the road of "I don't fucking care about this shit anymore, I just want to coach..." and sitting on a beach for a couple years and popping up somewhere else.

That's my worry.

What do you mean by the question WHAT HAS MILLER DONE WRONG?

(1) Book is under indictment and will settle. Hence we already know he is guilty.
(2) We know a player on the team has a family member who has received money.

Those two things for sure. Miller's integrity has been and will continue to called out. Probably forever it will be called out.

Hence, Arizona has a problem that's bigger than Miller's problem.

Given the Independent Council will now turn over every rock, what might be the odds going forward that there's nothing else?

A settlement and a parting of ways might be the best way out at this point. For both sides!

Ok, I'm done with you Hank. You're a fucking idiot.

[BE4RDOWN21]

Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

sorry, but this is bullshit. What is Miller directly accused of? What has he done wrong? What is he or any others supposed to say about the FBI investigation?

Show of support for what? "We'd like to support Coach Miller in a situation where his coach was arrested...."

Stupid. They made a statement, a few in fact...one mentioning an internal investigation. Hansen is going hansen on this and adding to the pressure that has been mentioned in this thread from the local media.

Miller has been under pressure (as stupid as I think it is) at the end of every season that doesn't end with a Final 4. Obviously this year is different at the onset. Lot's of people were expecting more things to happen (ironically? like at Alabama) and when things are quiet, people get nervous when the hounds at the door bark louder.

But shit like that Hansen stuff and the idiotic mumblings of "fans" waking up to the realities of big business are annoying.

I truthfully worry about Miller going down the road of "I don't fucking care about this shit anymore, I just want to coach..." and sitting on a beach for a couple years and popping up somewhere else.

That's my worry.

What do you mean by the question WHAT HAS MILLER DONE WRONG?

(1) Book is under indictment and will settle. Hence we already know he is guilty.
(2) We know a player on the team has a family member who has received money.

Those two things for sure. Miller's integrity has been and will continue to called out. Probably forever it will be called out.

Hence, Arizona has a problem that's bigger than Miller's problem.

Given the Independent Council will now turn over every rock, what might be the odds going forward that there's nothing else?

A settlement and a parting of ways might be the best way out at this point. For both sides!

Guilty until proven innocent I guess...

[prh]

Remember that Romar also had Dejounte Murray and Marquese Chriss, in addition to Fultz and Porter. His recent recruiting of lottery talents was beyond belief for that program.

[520in480]

think it would be a colossal mistake to fire Sean prematurely, before seeing how this all shakes out. Unless he is a bag man, but I highly doubt that.

We would be screwed if this hits and 46 top schools are implicated but our coach is not directly and everyone else just resets, with the NCAA saying "we can't have a tournament with IUPUI as the #1 seed so...everyone involves loses 2 scholarships and is on probation without postseason ban and let's start over with players who were caught by the FBI suspended" and there we are, the ones with no coach and no power to hire a geeat one. Because forget Romar...you don't think he was involved at UW? He had Porter and Fultz? We should be doing whatever it is we can, reasonably, to hold onto Sean, to keep him unless he is directly implicated. Because he is miles beyond what we will get on the open market now.

This was the point I was just getting ready to make. The worse case scenario, in my opinion, is Arizona, for the sake of damage control, getting rid of Miller before the scandal has played itself out, only to have dozens of other programs get busted for similar violations and retaining their coaches. Kansas keeps Self, UCLA keeps Alford, and Arizona fired Miller.

Also, with a scandal of this magnitude ongoing on multiple fronts (Nike, sports agencies, Adidas, etc.) how on earth can UA find a coach, in either the interim or long-term, in whom it has confidence is "clean"? What would be worse is UA having to fire multiple head coaches as the result of the same scandal. That would look worse for the president and AD.

There is nothing wrong with taking time to assess and deal with a complex, fluid situation.

[Olsondogg]

There is a littany of coaches with baggage. Nearly every single big name coach has some shady shit on his resume...Boeheim, Roy, Cal...tell me what Miller's baggage is...should they all be fired now? Look at what it took to get rid of Pitino. I mean

I don't get you fucking people that want change ASAP. There is an investigation by the FBI that Miller nor the program is the focus of. The NCAA isn't involved yet. Why the cry for heads to roll now is beyond me.

Does nobody remember how hard it was to get a quality coach to come to Tucson? I don't know what world you all are living in, but if you think that the UA is on some magical pedestal and things happen just because of the wonderfulness of the sunshine and palm trees...then go back to sleep.

[84Cat]

Hopefully, if the UA is going to fire Miller, it will be based on their internal investigation, not external pressure. It would be stupid to fire him right now!

[Spaceman Spiff]

My opinion is that the university must make a decision on Miller sooner than later for this season. They cannot suddenly decide to let Miller go 1 week before the season or during the year.

I personally believe They have this weekend weekend to decide if they are going with Miller through thick and thin or it's time to move on.

I'm curious if we poll this board what the results would be 65/35 keep Miller?

If so, I'm still completely lost as to what reason 35% would want Miller gone, unless it's an unrelated issue about his coaching or personal.

Maybe we should do a poll. Let's see where the chips fall eh.

But I'm with you LH, why indeed. Where's the beef?

It should be 100% "Wait to see what happens and make an appropriate decision."

There isn't anything to fire him for now. Could more be coming? Yeah, but we don't know what will or won't right now.

[HiCat]

think it would be a colossal mistake to fire Sean prematurely, before seeing how this all shakes out. Unless he is a bag man, but I highly doubt that.

We would be screwed if this hits and 46 top schools are implicated but our coach is not directly and everyone else just resets, with the NCAA saying "we can't have a tournament with IUPUI as the #1 seed so...everyone involves loses 2 scholarships and is on probation without postseason ban and let's start over with players who were caught by the FBI suspended" and there we are, the ones with no coach and no power to hire a geeat one. Because forget Romar...you don't think he was involved at UW? He had Porter and Fultz? We should be doing whatever it is we can, reasonably, to hold onto Sean, to keep him unless he is directly implicated. Because he is miles beyond what we will get on the open market now.

Amen to that. Let's see how things shake out. Is due process too much to ask for?

[NYCat]

To summarize where we're at..

Sean is unlikely in trouble w the FBI

Sean & the program could be in trouble w the NCAA after they get (if anything) info from the FBI. But that could take 2-4+ years.

Would be stupid to fire Miller before anything is proven, mounting outside pressure will shift from Louisville to us though. Huge spotlight w a #1 team

[Hank of sb]

Hopefully, if the UA is going to fire Miller, it will be based on their internal investigation, not external pressure. It would be stupid to fire him right now!

Yes, firing Miller should or should not happen based on the above; that issue is independent of self-sanctioning. Mind you, the team already knows they have an ineligible player and they already know if that player' s issue vacates the whole of last year.

What's the hold up on that announcement?

I would imagine we'll get a wrap on all this stuff within a month, whether we want one or not.

[CalStateTempe]

1. We need rep back
2. It'd be cool if gimino could chime in here about what he's seeing on his end
3. We should just UNC this whole thing. Delay delay delay and obfuscate and sue for good measure.
4. I'd be more pissed out Arizona for canning miller for unsubstantiated allegations and without due process; IMO THAT is more damaging the the program and school long term than whatever some rouge assistant did.

[Chicat]

Also, I have no idea of any sound reasons why I shouldn't merge this thread with the main scandal one. Please someone enlighten me on both counts.

There is no sound reason not to merge it. In fact, I can merge it for you if you like: I don't mind being the "bad guy" moderator in this instance.

NM's opinion is of no greater or lesser value than any other person's on this board. Therefore, it certainly doesn't deserve an entire thread which, on its own, does nothing but stroke the ego of the thread creator and further empower the thread creator's holier-than-thou attitude.

You guys take this stuff way too seriously. Who cares if there's another thread. It lives or dies of its own accord. What difference does it make. None.

Then why not have everyone start their own thread with their thoughts at the top?

We've been working with the megathread mentality for a decade now. Usually if you're not bringing a new topic or new way of looking something to the table, you're getting merged. Other boards do it other ways. I get that. But they haven't been our way.

[Alieberman]

UofA Basketball is my happy place.

Please Don't Fuck with it.

[ChooChooCat]

Let me paint a picture for you guys if we fire Sean Miller based on allegations at the moment don't pertain to anything he's done outside of having an underling go rogue.

Lorenzo Romar for sure is your interim coach. If Heeke decides to go the USC route and hire a lameduck coach during a sanctioned period like they did with Kevin O'Neill we will be a nothing program for at least 5 years. That could either be Romar or insert an overrun coach that's not worth much of a shit, but isn't a known cheater, whose entire purpose would be to "clean up the program." Quite frankly if Heeke does fire Miller then that's his only route of course, because he's not going to attract a coach worth half a shit immediately after this scandal. After that lameduck coach inevitably fails to live up to standards Arizona then can hire an actual worthwhile coach and we'd have to wait probably 3 seasons or so before he fully turns it around and we're remotely in the discussion for a Final Four. So we're looking at probably 7-8 years of non-relevance or just pure mediocre success.

Now if we hold on to Sean Miller as tightly as we should due to the fact that he's 1. Never done anything wrong prior and 2. He's currently at the moment not implicated of any wrong doing by anybody then he coaches out this season, we succeed as much as we can, and if it gets vacated later due to PROOF being provided of a current player being paid then so be it. We serve a loss of a couple of scholarships over a couple of years (Miller doesn't play more than 9 guys so who cares) and sit out the NCAA tourney in 2019. Miller will inevitably recover and be able to recruit effectively again after the NCAA tourney sanctions are over and we'll return to prominence probably a year or two after the NCAA tourney sanctions pass.

Which would you guys prefer?

Now if Miller is implicated in anything or there's remotely any proof of him doing anything wrong then yes he needs to be fired. Until that day actually comes if you're asking him to be fired you're a god damn idiot of the highest order.

[prh]

Hopefully, if the UA is going to fire Miller, it will be based on their internal investigation, not external pressure. It would be stupid to fire him right now!

Yes, firing Miller should or should not happen based on the above; that issue is independent of self-sanctioning. Mind you, the team already knows they have an ineligible player and they already know if that player' s issue vacates the whole of last year.

What's the hold up on that announcement?

I would imagine we'll get a wrap on all this stuff within a month, whether we want one or not.

Because allegations of paying a current player in the FBI complaint is far from enough evidence for the NCAA to declare someone ineligible. With this logic, why don't all guilty criminals plead guilty instead of delaying things with an actual trial?

[Longhorned]

UofA Basketball is my happy place.

Please Don't Fuck with it.

Can you even imagine? One day all of us see our happy place disappear because we supported jumping the gun without information and context, and firing Sean Miller.

[Olsondogg]

Not to mention that Miller does have a contract guys. If you want to read it, it has some nice language about what they need to do if they want to fire him.

[Longhorned]

We shouldn't do that vote because there's no conceivable justification for the question of firing Miller. But I'm going to assume it would be nothing like 35%. This is a board filled with college graduates who understand the importance of evidence and legalities.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Let me paint a picture for you guys if we fire Sean Miller based on allegations at the moment don't pertain to anything he's done outside of having an underling go rogue.

Lorenzo Romar for sure is your interim coach. If Heeke decides to go the USC route and hire a lameduck coach during a sanctioned period like they did with Kevin O'Neill we will be a nothing program for at least 5 years. That could either be Romar or insert an overrun coach that's not worth much of a shit, but isn't a known cheater, whose entire purpose would be to "clean up the program." Quite frankly if Heeke does fire Miller then that's his only route of course, because he's not going to attract a coach worth half a shit immediately after this scandal. After that lameduck coach inevitably fails to live up to standards Arizona then can hire an actual worthwhile coach and we'd have to wait probably 3 seasons or so before he fully turns it around and we're remotely in the discussion for a Final Four. So we're looking at probably 7-8 years of non-relevance or just pure mediocre success.

Now if we hold on to Sean Miller as tightly as we should due to the fact that he's 1. Never done anything wrong prior and 2. He's currently at the moment not implicated of any wrong doing by anybody then he coaches out this season, we succeed as much as we can, and if it gets vacated later due to PROOF being provided of a current player being paid then so be it. We serve a loss of a couple of scholarships over a couple of years (Miller doesn't play more than 9 guys so who cares) and sit out the NCAA tourney in 2019. Miller will inevitably recover and be able to recruit effectively again after the NCAA tourney sanctions are over and we'll return to prominence probably a year or two after the NCAA tourney sanctions pass.

Which would you guys prefer?

Now if Miller is implicated in anything or there's remotely any proof of him doing anything wrong then yes he needs to be fired. Until that day actually comes if you're asking him to be fired you're a god damn idiot of the highest order.

If I can add: firing Miller at this point hurts us with the coming NCAA inquiry. It's more or less an admission he was in on it. Now, if he was, you have to bit the bullet and do what needs to be done. But if you aren't sure, a quick trigger sure makes it harder to later to the NCAA that this wasn't a lack of institutional control because the firing will be read as it extending all the way up.

Right now, beyond Book's statement about paying Quinerly, you have the allegation Little was offered $ by Miami and the agent saying he already compensated a current player. Neither allegation mentions Miller and neither allegation has corroboration.

It is firmly too early to tell.

[CalStateTempe]

I'm so glad I don't live my life worrying about the perceptions of others with less information and even poorer opinions/intelligence.

Because that's what firing miller would be, a reactionary move with no basis in fact simply out of concern for perception.

So fucking lame.

[CalStateTempe]

Let me paint a picture for you guys if we fire Sean Miller based on allegations at the moment don't pertain to anything he's done outside of having an underling go rogue.

Lorenzo Romar for sure is your interim coach. If Heeke decides to go the USC route and hire a lameduck coach during a sanctioned period like they did with Kevin O'Neill we will be a nothing program for at least 5 years. That could either be Romar or insert an overrun coach that's not worth much of a shit, but isn't a known cheater, whose entire purpose would be to "clean up the program." Quite frankly if Heeke does fire Miller then that's his only route of course, because he's not going to attract a coach worth half a shit immediately after this scandal. After that lameduck coach inevitably fails to live up to standards Arizona then can hire an actual worthwhile coach and we'd have to wait probably 3 seasons or so before he fully turns it around and we're remotely in the discussion for a Final Four. So we're looking at probably 7-8 years of non-relevance or just pure mediocre success.

Now if we hold on to Sean Miller as tightly as we should due to the fact that he's 1. Never done anything wrong prior and 2. He's currently at the moment not implicated of any wrong doing by anybody then he coaches out this season, we succeed as much as we can, and if it gets vacated later due to PROOF being provided of a current player being paid then so be it. We serve a loss of a couple of scholarships over a couple of years (Miller doesn't play more than 9 guys so who cares) and sit out the NCAA tourney in 2019. Miller will inevitably recover and be able to recruit effectively again after the NCAA tourney sanctions are over and we'll return to prominence probably a year or two after the NCAA tourney sanctions pass.

Which would you guys prefer?

Now if Miller is implicated in anything or there's remotely any proof of him doing anything wrong then yes he needs to be fired. Until that day actually comes if you're asking him to be fired you're a god damn idiot of the highest order.

If I can add: firing Miller at this point hurts us with the coming NCAA inquiry. It's more or less an admission he was in on it. Now, if he was, you have to bit the bullet and do what needs to be done. But if you aren't sure, a quick trigger sure makes it harder to later to the NCAA that this wasn't a lack of institutional control because the firing will be read as it extending all the way up.

Right now, beyond Book's statement about paying Quinerly, you have the allegation Little was offered $ by Miami and the agent saying he already compensated a current player. Neither allegation mentions Miller and neither allegation has corroboration.

It is firmly too early to tell.

Exactly. Any self imposed sanctions will be far greater and damaging then whatever the NCAA will give us when this all plays out.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm so glad I don't live my life worrying about the perceptions of others with less information and even poorer opinions/intelligence.

Because that's what firing miller would be, a reactionary move with no basis in fact simply out of concern for perception.

So fucking lame.

Firing Miller based on what is known publicly now would be a knee jerk response, the sort of emotional crazies that people who post on message boards are prone to support, but those are the same people who wanted Miller fired after we lost to Xavier.

[dcZONAfan]

Fuck it, I just hope we get to play this season with a full roster. If we make the final four, and win the national championship, I won't give a fuck if they vacate it later, because in the moment I will feel ALL the feels that I want to feel when I support this team. Like someone said before (I think), USC fans probably don't give a fuck that they took the championship away.

[BE4RDOWN21]

Not to mention that Miller does have a contract guys. If you want to read it, it has some nice language about what they need to do if they want to fire him.

Finally someone has some sense. You need just cause. he is not implicated at this point. they won't just fire him because of allegations against an assistant couch. Some of the language from his contract state Miller can be terminated for, among other reasons, “repetitive violations” (he has none) of NCAA or Pac-12 rules, “demonstrated dishonesty” (to this point, there isn't any evidence that he has been) and “conviction of a criminal act that constitutes a felony, a misdemeanor involving moral turpitude or that otherwise reflects adversely on coach’s fitness to serve as head coach.” (he hasn't been implicated). Although the key words are "among other reasons", these are the main area to focus on. The UA won't fire him until they have just cause or they will be subject to breach of contract. Calling for him to be fired without sufficient evidence is uneducated. Please google "due process", prior to gathering your steaks and pitchforks.

[Hank of sb]

Hopefully, if the UA is going to fire Miller, it will be based on their internal investigation, not external pressure. It would be stupid to fire him right now!

Yes, firing Miller should or should not happen based on the above; that issue is independent of self-sanctioning. Mind you, the team already knows they have an ineligible player and they already know if that player' s issue vacates the whole of last year.

What's the hold up on that announcement?

I would imagine we'll get a wrap on all this stuff within a month, whether we want one or not.

Because allegations of paying a current player in the FBI complaint is far from enough evidence for the NCAA to declare someone ineligible. With this logic, why don't all guilty criminals plead guilty instead of delaying things with an actual trial?

Scheer has already acknowledged it happened and they "are just sorting out the timeline."

From my reading, the player has admitted his family received money.

Look, lets do things your way: Admit nothing; say nothing; stonewall (which won't work with the FBI, Larry Scott etc); put the burden on the NCAA and just declare we've fixed everything (Book gone).

That strategy makes no sense. Why? Because recruiting is over now, today........BEFORE we get the hammer. The actual hammer--the punishment--might fall two year's from now.
Who wants to wait?

It's not like Arizona is going to have banner years until hammer-time comes.

Hence, the argument is get it over with. Self-sanctioning works and it will be darn easy (soon) for the Robbins and the AD to know where we stand and what the sanctioning should be. The NCAA can't even start their investigation for months/years. Why wait on them? They're no help.

For all those that waited, Syracuse comes to mind, none of them gained. They lost.

[Beachcat97]

Fuck it, I just hope we get to play this season with a full roster. If we make the final four, and win the national championship, I won't give a fuck if they vacate it later, because in the moment I will feel ALL the feels that I want to feel when I support this team. Like someone said before (I think), USC fans probably don't give a fuck that they took the championship away.

Absolutely. Gotta get this team on the court, intact. And gotta have Coach Miller with them the whole way. If there's been some wrongdoing, let's deal with it next summer.

[Longhorned]

Fuck it, I just hope we get to play this season with a full roster. If we make the final four, and win the national championship, I won't give a fuck if they vacate it later, because in the moment I will feel ALL the feels that I want to feel when I support this team. Like someone said before (I think), USC fans probably don't give a fuck that they took the championship away.

All the 14 seeds and higher may have to vacate their wins as well, along with several NIT teams.

[Merkin]

[Spaceman Spiff]

Fuck it, I just hope we get to play this season with a full roster. If we make the final four, and win the national championship, I won't give a fuck if they vacate it later, because in the moment I will feel ALL the feels that I want to feel when I support this team. Like someone said before (I think), USC fans probably don't give a fuck that they took the championship away.

I said that about SC, and I feel very similarly to you. There's going to be a black cloud over all teams in this upcoming season. Unless we know for sure that someone's ineligible, we're just part of that cloud of suspicion.

We might as well win a championship as long as we have to live under the cloud. If it turns out that Dawkins's allegation was true and we had a kid paid off by his agency and the NC gets vacated...I doubt I'll really care much. They can give it to the runner up, who probably had at least one player accept a benefit too, but I still get the fun of the ride.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Fuck it, I just hope we get to play this season with a full roster. If we make the final four, and win the national championship, I won't give a fuck if they vacate it later, because in the moment I will feel ALL the feels that I want to feel when I support this team. Like someone said before (I think), USC fans probably don't give a fuck that they took the championship away.

All the 14 seeds and higher may have to vacate their wins as well, along with several NIT teams.

You know what would be funny? We might retroactively make our first Final Four under Miller in 2016-17. We just have to root for some dirt on Gonzaga and Xavier.

[ChooChooCat]

Hopefully, if the UA is going to fire Miller, it will be based on their internal investigation, not external pressure. It would be stupid to fire him right now!

Yes, firing Miller should or should not happen based on the above; that issue is independent of self-sanctioning. Mind you, the team already knows they have an ineligible player and they already know if that player' s issue vacates the whole of last year.

What's the hold up on that announcement?

I would imagine we'll get a wrap on all this stuff within a month, whether we want one or not.

Because allegations of paying a current player in the FBI complaint is far from enough evidence for the NCAA to declare someone ineligible. With this logic, why don't all guilty criminals plead guilty instead of delaying things with an actual trial?

Scheer has already acknowledged it happened and they "are just sorting out the timeline."

From my reading, the player has admitted his family received money.

Look, lets do things your way: Admit nothing; say nothing; stonewall (which won't work with the FBI, Larry Scott etc); put the burden on the NCAA and just declare we've fixed everything (Book gone).

That strategy makes no sense. Why? Because recruiting is over now, today........BEFORE we get the hammer. The actual hammer--the punishment--might fall two year's from now.
Who wants to wait?

It's not like Arizona is going to have banner years until hammer-time comes.

Hence, the argument is get it over with. Self-sanctioning works and it will be darn easy (soon) for the Robbins and the AD to know where we stand and what the sanctioning should be. The NCAA can't even start their investigation for months/years. Why wait on them? They're no help.

For all those that waited, Syracuse comes to mind, none of them gained. They lost.

At this point your opinion is by far the most worthless on this topic. You've made your point clear. Go away.

[Russ Smith]

Pasternak strikes me as a guy not likely to get involved for the same reasons you or I wouldn't, Russ. It could be the last thing Pasternak did before leaving Arizona for UCSB is tell Sean Miller to watch out...Book may already have gone off the deep end.

As for what was said, the best way to get away from criminal behavior is to say "Let me think about it, sounds pretty interesting." Then run run run.

But we will find out...I hope soon.

I guess that's possible but doesn't seem likely. To me if I want to avoid it I just don't ever take the meeting or phone calls in the first place.I certainly don't tell the guy I'm interested, I just say no thanks.

If you read the Bland complaint for example he indicates in this that it isn't the first time he's been approached and offered money but this time the deal is so "clean" he feels comfortable accepting it. So even a coach who eventually took the bribe, Bland, was able to just outright say no before. And that's on tape it's before he knew the FBI knew so he wasn't just saying that to make himself look good, he was saying that not knowing anybody else was listening.

I fully expect this to hit a bunch of schools, I won't be at all surprised if UCLA gets implicated too. I just find it amusing people want to bend over backwards to avoid admitting that its' quite clear Sood said Pasternak was in agreement he just wanted to wait until after the tourney.

That's what fans do, USC fans are doing the same thing on USChoops including arguing the FBI overstepped their legal rights. one guy yesterday said he believes the case against Bland will be completely dropped, meanwhile he's already been arraigned, posted bail, and reportedly is now fully cooperating with the FBI, if his case is dropped it's because he talked not because they have no case. I've seen the same thing on UCLA boards before and if stuff comes out on us I'm sure I'll see it again. I still remember all the BRO defending of howland not kicking jerime Anderson off the team for stealing a laptop because of the technicality they pled it down. I said it then, the only reason he's still on the team is Howland is thin at guard, that should not matter he's a senior, he's supposed to know better, he should be off the team. I was one of VERY few people on BRO who said that.

Got to remember Pasternak was with Book for a reason, they were co-workers. Book has always been nothing more than a friendly, stupid dog bought for the kids from the pound, for free no less. Pasternak now has a 5-year contract for 3.5 MM.

Do the math, Russ.

There may be a big Arizona thing here--I admit that (I don't know)--it's just not Pasternak where I'd do my digging.

Oh I agree Pasternack is not the story but he is PART of the story. If you're trying to determine which schools are implicated and to what degree, when you get to Arizona and people keep saying it's just one rogue assistant, it's completely ignoring that if Pasternack were still at arizona it's quite likely he'd be coach #5 on this case.

I'm not in any way saying Pasternack and BOok are similar. as you're well aware from being on BRO, we have been talking about Book being shady for years there. There's a reason Miller didn't fire Book when he took his "leave of absence" and it's not because Miller is a great guy who wants to give people second (or multiple) chances, it's because Book was very good at his job, getting players, by any means possible and you have to get talent to win at this level.

[CalStateTempe]

Lol...count me as part of the let's go win a chipper, damn the torpedoes, and if it's vacated so be it band wagon.

[CatFanOneMil]

I'm gonna let the sun shine on some rather dark imaginations, wakey, wakey, eggs and bakey...

First of all Romar and his recruiting...

A TON of these really good players are being raised by single moms who's entire support net UP UNTIL NOW has been grandma, her faith and the church...a lot of you may be ignorant to this world but it shapes more of the landscaper here than you might imagine...hell Trier is always twitting things from his daily bible devotional...my point is faith and church culture (obviously not immune to corruption, but much harder to tweak for a single mom) are squarely planted in a good portion of influence here...Romar is a man of faith, he is part of that culture, heck Miller went on and on about his impeccable reputation, he's a church guy (yes I know there are plenty of corrupt church guys but I'm pretty sure Romar is not one of them)...Romar probably recruits from this cultural angle and it gives him a decided edge in a LOT of these situations because many of these families have only ever had the church in their corner, do you have any idea how hard it would be to raise a young black man in some inner city world and keep him out of jail and off the streets and away from drugs? Just about the ONLY way to do it is keep him in church where there are a few good deacons and a preacher who act as surrogate uncles and father figures...Romar is an incredible surrogate figure in this culture.

Second, Miller and his world here...he has kids...kids in College, he has put roots down here his family has put roots down here, he comes from the world of people like TJ McConnell hard working Pittsburg middle class families...these people don't generally throw away their entire life and legacy for greed...hell the man is probably the highest paid employee on the state payroll...he has a nice life...now I get that there might be incentive to compete as a coach and do the same thing as the big boys do (if this is as rampant as many want me to believe) but even at that there's still a good chance that his character steps up in that mess and says "Fuck that I will win the hard way before I compromise my Dads legacy"...

I'm just trying to suggest that yes American greed is an ugly ugly beast and yes it has its tentacles in the world of college sports, but that does not mean it runs things, it doesn't run your world does it?

Most people are good...I stick to this I will say it over and over in spite of the majority of most people electing greedy people to run our government...even there most people are simply trying to get a person in power to help the average person, no one is electing greedy people because they want to be greedy themselves...we are all basically good so stop letting the bogeyman of humanities darker side drive your imagination.

[CalStateTempe]

Russ smith and hank should get a room and share their hot takes over a jar of Nutella.

[Russ Smith]

He didn't because UCSB hired him a few weeks later and since UCSB doesn't have any players anybody would want to steer to an agent or adviser, he was no longer of interest.

what a reach

look at you assuming what another person is doing or decisions they made based off your own opinion

hey, ill be the first to admit that Arizona is in some hot fucking water, but lets talk about why, not why YOU think why???

Maybe Pasternack was tipped off by the FBI too?

again it's very apparent that Pasternack was willing to play ball and was lined up with Book, but because he took the UCSB job, that went nowhere.

Even Pascoe pointed out in an article yesterday that Pasternack was involved.

[NYCat]

Why is it that people who choose a name as a handle are almost always terrible

[CalStateTempe]

I'm just trying to suggest that yes American greed is an ugly ugly beast and yes it has its tentacles in the world of college sports, but that does not mean it runs things,.

Must be nice of live in your world. America love the mammon and everything is for sale in this country. And I'm a centrist/moderate saying this.

[ChooChooCat]

He didn't because UCSB hired him a few weeks later and since UCSB doesn't have any players anybody would want to steer to an agent or adviser, he was no longer of interest.

what a reach

look at you assuming what another person is doing or decisions they made based off your own opinion

hey, ill be the first to admit that Arizona is in some hot fucking water, but lets talk about why, not why YOU think why???

Maybe Pasternack was tipped off by the FBI too?

again it's very apparent that Pasternack was willing to play ball and was lined up with Book, but because he took the UCSB job, that went nowhere.

Even Pascoe pointed out in an article yesterday that Pasternack was involved.

So you admit you're on this Pasternack beat for absolutely no god damn reason at this point because it "WENT NOWHERE." Go to bed Russ.

[Bear Down Vegas]

There is a littany of coaches with baggage. Nearly every single big name coach has some shady shit on his resume...Boeheim, Roy, Cal...tell me what Miller's baggage is...should they all be fired now? Look at what it took to get rid of Pitino. I mean

I don't get you fucking people that want change ASAP. There is an investigation by the FBI that Miller nor the program is the focus of. The NCAA isn't involved yet. Why the cry for heads to roll now is beyond me.

Does nobody remember how hard it was to get a quality coach to come to Tucson? I don't know what world you all are living in, but if you think that the UA is on some magical pedestal and things happen just because of the wonderfulness of the sunshine and palm trees...then go back to sleep.

I've wondered for a long time now, why you don't post in long form more. Whether I agree with you or not (I happen to here) you are a really good poster who for the most part posts twitter style, until this thread. I dig it OD...keep it up.


This is such a crazy, heavy situation & we are all obnoxiously die hard Arizona fans or we wouldn't be here. I'm not crazy about setting or picking sides but I will say, as big as this story is (& where it is chronologically in the narrative) - deep breaths & patience can't hurt anyone.

I've been sitting here absorbing for almost a full week now. & I still don't know what's best. Glad I'm not someone in a place of power where so many voices & so much noise is screaming at them to do different things.

#tldr - Can't we all just get a long & buy each other a coke & smile? lol