2017/2018 PG

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:05 pm

means so much this year -- sticky this thread

Arizona is loaded

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:01 pm

97 been drinkin or can someone interpret?

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:57 am

YoDeFoe wrote:97 been drinkin or can someone interpret?

"We have the talent to win it all as long as our pg doesn't fuck it up"

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:20 am

I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:09 am

He doesn’t just mean cheese makers, but rather purveyors of all kinds of dairy products.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:49 am

97cats wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.
i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

Interested to see how many minutes he gets before Sean whittles down the rotation to his core 8-9 players.

I want to see him get a ton of experience right out of the gate to hedge against injuries down the road.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:54 am

I liked what I saw from Barcello too, although I didn't get to see as much of the game as I would have liked. Was it just me, or did Akot handle the ball quite a bit too? It might have just been the parts I saw.

Statfreak77 · Post by **Statfreak77** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:24 am

Chicat wrote:
97cats wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.
i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.
Interested to see how many minutes he gets before Sean whittles down the rotation to his core 8-9 players.

I want to see him get a ton of experience right out of the gate to hedge against injuries down the road.

I am pretty sure that Barcello will be part of the rotation for sure - he gives Arizona depth at the PG position, and also can play off the ball as well. He will probably be a 10-12 minute per game guy, which is a good amount for a freshman with a senior PG on the roster.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:20 am

3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:37 am

prh wrote:I liked what I saw from Barcello too, although I didn't get to see as much of the game as I would have liked. Was it just me, or did Akot handle the ball quite a bit too? It might have just been the parts I saw.

PRH, Akot looked good. Handles, passes and plays long, confrontive D. Strong PG potential in my view.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:20 pm

KaibabKat wrote:3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.

no it doesn't

Arizona will have zero problem winning 30 games again this year regardless, but "Juggernaut down the road" and potential national champ status is very much in limbo, imo.

this is going to be a developing topic from where I see it for sure -- it seems more fluid to me than ever before.

the 'all eggs' in that basket might have a short shelf life in Feb/March.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:24 pm

97cats wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.
i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

Given our '18 recruiting situation, if he was a legit option as a soph, that would be awesome too.

This year may be a long string of wondering if PJC is going to be good enough to support all the talent elsewhere.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:39 pm

With the scoring options on the team, pjc should be able to run the floor just fine.
We shouldn't need him to score.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:50 pm

I think PJC’s nickname should be “All Eggs”

Hank of sb · Post by **Hank of sb** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:36 pm

97cats wrote:
KaibabKat wrote:3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.
no it doesn't

Arizona will have zero problem winning 30 games again this year regardless, but "Juggernaut down the road" and potential national champ status is very much in limbo, imo.

this is going to be a developing topic from where I see it for sure -- it seems more fluid to me than ever before.

the 'all eggs' in that basket might have a short shelf life in Feb/March.

So what are you implying?

It seems you are suggesting that come February, with Arizona potentially undefeated, the university may impose severe sanctions which includes no post season. All this with a nod from the NCAA endorsing the sanctions, noting the program is responsible for Book's actions even if it is determined Book acted solely on his own, solely for his personal gain.

That if no further revelations come to fore-- from any/all investigation(s)-- Arizona may proceed as if this episode is behind them.

OR are you saying, Barcello, by then, clearly the more talented PG, subtly finds himself gettting more minutes, especially at crunch time? Making the team lethal from all five spots.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:40 pm

How did you get anything about the investigation from 97cats post?

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:45 pm

Hank cut it out already. Since you've been here longer than 5 minutes, you know that 97 has long contended PJC is the biggest weakness on this team, by far, and was also a factor in us flaming out last year. It's not like that's a strange opinion, since it's shared by many here including myself. It's pretty obvious that the limbo is about our PG situation, considering that is literally the point of this thread. If you didn't pick that up, then Alieberman's translation at the top was pretty clear.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:12 pm

I’d be very grateful if someone who knows more about basketball can explain to me why this team needs a true point guard as opposed to Trier at the 1. I know Trier is looking to shoot, and to score. But Miller has run with that before. It’s hard for me to understand leaving 20% of your otherwise elite team on the floor to a mid-major backup.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:58 pm

Longhorned wrote:I’d be very grateful if someone who knows more about basketball can explain to me why this team needs a true point guard as opposed to Trier at the 1. I know Trier is looking to shoot, and to score. But Miller has run with that before. It’s hard for me to understand leaving 20% of your otherwise elite team on the floor to a mid-major backup.

Make no mistake, Trier is the guy with the ball at the top of the key late in games.

However, to your point... Imagine this team with a PG capable of getting everyone easy looks off dribble penetration. Imagine someone getting Trier easy looks on the wing. Imagine a defense being stressed by Trier on the wing and Ayton on the block/elbow, and then a PG capable of beating his man off the bounce and finishing at the rim. As I posted previously, if you want to see an improved PJC (you, as the general person on this board), we better be able to get stops so he can push the ball in transition. Thats where he is at his best.

I think PJC will be fine, but, as others have noted, fine can easily be the difference between a Final Four and another early exit.

Hank of sb · Post by **Hank of sb** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:09 pm

prh wrote:I liked what I saw from Barcello too, although I didn't get to see as much of the game as I would have liked. Was it just me, or did Akot handle the ball quite a bit too? It might have just been the parts I saw.

Akot's handle, Barcello's poise and flash, along with Lee's seemingly polished game which includes incredible hops for a 4, not to mention Randolph's shooting, makes me wish we had one less player on the roster.

The issue, IMHO, is more how this group is allowed to play. How the coach substitutes looks more a matter than who plays the point.

The conundrum of who plays where and when will be decisive. Indeed, Akot alone could play any position on the floor. And capably. Trier could play three positions; five others could play two positions.

Therefore substitution, not distribution, is the point.....not necessarily who who plays it.

After Ayton's NBA number is called, five more might be coming behind him.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:36 pm

If this team has perimeter shooting they will win a lot.

The wings have to shoot better than what we have done the last few years
Otherwise teams will pack the late and zone us to defeat

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:45 pm

TucsonClip wrote:
Longhorned wrote:I’d be very grateful if someone who knows more about basketball can explain to me why this team needs a true point guard as opposed to Trier at the 1. I know Trier is looking to shoot, and to score. But Miller has run with that before. It’s hard for me to understand leaving 20% of your otherwise elite team on the floor to a mid-major backup.
Make no mistake, Trier is the guy with the ball at the top of the key late in games.

However, to your point... Imagine this team with a PG capable of getting everyone easy looks off dribble penetration. Imagine someone getting Trier easy looks on the wing. Imagine a defense being stressed by Trier on the wing and Ayton on the block/elbow, and then a PG capable of beating his man off the bounce and finishing at the rim. As I posted previously, if you want to see an improved PJC (you, as the general person on this board), we better be able to get stops so he can push the ball in transition. Thats where he is at his best.

I think PJC will be fine, but, as others have noted, fine can easily be the difference between a Final Four and another early exit.

Much appreciated, TC. I can picture all that.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:54 pm

PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

Barcello did seem to settle in by the second half, and there were a few times where he got dribble penetration and got PJC on his back - if guys learn to read and make that next cut as Barcello draws a help defender... well that's a skill I haven't seen out of PJC in his three years.

Akot... not sure I want him running the point but I do appreciate that he can be a ball handler as a forward. A guy who can get in the middle of the zone or who can make the right pass in the middle of action. Like Walton and Iggy and Solo. Akot also got repeatedly abused by the older Trier last night though while Akot tried to D him at the perimeter... so there's plenty of learning to be done there.

Long way to March. Looking forward to seeing these guys grow.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:59 pm

Just find the open man, convert layups when played to pass on the drive and hit his open Js to keep defenses honest.

That's all I expect from PJC this season. Barcello can fill in the rest, and Trier will step up in crunch time.

I think we'd all prefer a take-charge PG in NCAA tournament crunch time, but nobody's expecting Barcello to be that man this season. We all know Trier will be out there for PJC in close games anyway.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:24 pm

also, Cartwright bullied nothing and nobody last night, nothing.

I'm hopeful like everybody else, but PG and who ultimately plays it is the most fluid topic on this years team...and just wait til Alkins gets back.

Arizona is loaded

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:38 pm

97cats wrote:

also, Cartwright bullied nothing and nobody last night, nothing.

I'm hopeful like everybody else, but PG and who ultimately plays it is the most fluid topic on this years team...and just wait til Alkins gets back.

Arizona is loaded

Match ups will decide Parker Jackson Cartwright's minutes. If he's outmanned and the weakest link on the floor, it will force Miller's hand. At least we have depth to create problems for opponents. In crunch time, Trier may be the de facto point guard if PJC can't get the job done.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:03 am

97cats wrote:

also, Cartwright bullied nothing and nobody last night, nothing.

I'm hopeful like everybody else, but PG and who ultimately plays it is the most fluid topic on this years team...and just wait til Alkins gets back.

Arizona is loaded

Miller mentioned in his on court post game talk the disparity between PJC and Barcello and referenced experience and nerves as factors. PJC ripped Barcello multiple times. First half more than the second.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:14 am

Hank of sb wrote:
97cats wrote:
KaibabKat wrote:3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.
no it doesn't

Arizona will have zero problem winning 30 games again this year regardless, but "Juggernaut down the road" and potential national champ status is very much in limbo, imo.

this is going to be a developing topic from where I see it for sure -- it seems more fluid to me than ever before.

the 'all eggs' in that basket might have a short shelf life in Feb/March.
So what are you implying?

It seems you are suggesting that come February, with Arizona potentially undefeated, the university may impose severe sanctions which includes no post season. All this with a nod from the NCAA endorsing the sanctions, noting the program is responsible for Book's actions even if it is determined Book acted solely on his own, solely for his personal gain.

That if no further revelations come to fore-- from any/all investigation(s)-- Arizona may proceed as if this episode is behind them.

OR are you saying, Barcello, by then, clearly the more talented PG, subtly finds himself gettting more minutes, especially at crunch time? Making the team lethal from all five spots.

This post is a treasure.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:35 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Miller mentioned in his on court post game talk the disparity between PJC and Barcello and referenced experience and nerves as factors. PJC ripped Barcello multiple times. First half more than the second.

im not sure this meant what you think it meant

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:10 am

Shouldn't a mod just combine this with the other PJC-bashing thread? If it's indeed "all eggs," then combine with the Sean Miller thread, too. I'm assuming he runs the program. Perhaps I'm naive.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:43 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:48 am

gumby wrote:Shouldn't a mod just combine this with the other PJC-bashing thread? If it's indeed "all eggs," then combine with the Sean Miller thread, too. I'm assuming he runs the program. Perhaps I'm naive.

to justify the merge, this thread would have to be ALL about PJC or Sean Miller -- clearly the PG position this year is not ALL about PJC, and wont be as the season progresses.

collective effort(s)

thank god

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:00 am

Barcello is going to be a beast sooner than later. Plus he's from my former HS, so I endorse him big time...

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:51 am

Puerco wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:01 am

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:21 am

From that bottom picture #5 Brandon Randolph appears to be the new "Chosen One."

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:22 pm

Chicat wrote:
Puerco wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?
PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

Yep, I saw. But neither of those stat lines imply either player bullying anyone. If anything, PJC going 1-6 with a 0.5 A:TO ratio is pretty disappointing for a bully.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:10 pm

Puerco wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Puerco wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?
PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.
Yep, I saw. But neither of those stat lines imply either player bullying anyone. If anything, PJC going 1-6 with a 0.5 A:TO ratio is pretty disappointing for a bully.

I feel like the defense should be ahead of the offense at this point in an intra-team scrimmage. They know the plays and should know each other’s tendencies. I’m not going to put too much stock in anyone’s stat lines. No one got hurt and they put on a good show for the fans. Mission accomplished all the way around.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:04 pm

Chicat wrote:
Puerco wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?
PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

Yeah. For a senior vs freshman matchup, PJC gave Barcello trouble early, but then he did very little after that. There was a lot of the disappearing act, and once Barcello seemed to get his footing, the D wasn't nearly as noticeable.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:21 pm

It was a scrimmage... Pump the brakes.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:38 am

Yep, I was just taking exception to PJC 'bullying'. That's probably too strong a word for what I observed, first few minutes excepted.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:42 am

Dodged another Mustafa Josiah Cartwright?

Thornton, too.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:48 am

gumby wrote:Dodged another Mustafa Josiah Cartwright?

Thornton, too.

Nah, Duval is a crazy athlete. He needs to be a consistent shooter, but that tweet after an intrasquad scrimmage is just fishing for controversy.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:51 am

Duval is good. Goodman is not.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:15 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
gumby wrote:Dodged another Mustafa Josiah Cartwright?

Thornton, too.
Nah, Duval is a crazy athlete. He needs to be a consistent shooter, but that tweet after an intrasquad scrimmage is just fishing for controversy.

Jeff Goodman? Fishing for clicks??

C’mon now. That’s not the mush mouth fellow UA alum we’ve all come to know and love...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:56 pm

Frybry02 wrote:It was a scrimmage... Pump the brakes.

Seriously.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:00 am

I really liked what I saw from Trier when he was running the point last night. Could we possibly see more minutes from him there than expected? Maybe that's part of our answer?

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:55 am

billk78 wrote:I really liked what I saw from Trier when he was running the point last night.

me too

billk78 wrote:Could we possibly see more minutes from him there than expected?

i dont think there is any question about it

billk78 wrote:Maybe that's part of our answer?

maybe, but what about the other part(s)?

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:19 pm

Trier did struggle to stay in front of the quicker smaller PG last night, so concerns about running him around on D and then asking him to give up the ball on O and then when does he have time and energy to do what he does best?

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