2017-2018 Arizona Basketball

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:08 pm

And ASU is now 7-0. We have to hope Rawle plays at 150% to make us relevant this season. Even that might not be enough. This is really, really bad.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:16 pm

What the hell is going on? Just saw the score.

ecurbh · Post by **ecurbh** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:19 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:What the hell is going on? Just saw the score.

A train wrecking into a dumpster fire.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:19 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:What the hell is going on? Just saw the score.

No defense, no flow on offense, Ristic is playing more than he should, Trier can't defend my grandmother, same shit, different day.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm

Down 13 in the second half on the road?

Big fucking win.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:33 pm

Cancel the funeral. Big time nuts to battle back and win the game

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:40 pm

Thats a tough place to get a win and nearly impossible when you have been playing the way we have. So props for finding a way to get it done on a(nother) bad night. They are getting a valuable lesson about the value of each possession, both ends, and how difficult it is to win if you dont value each possession, on both ends.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:46 pm

Arguably the biggest win over an unranked OOC team of the Miller era.

BTFD!!

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:49 pm

Huge come back. F the haters

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:51 pm

Amazing how many people have jumped off the ledge. Of course some of them don't surprise me, but there are a couple who I am quite surprised at. One game at a time. This team will get better.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:54 pm

Just what we needed before TAMU.

God I hope we can get our defense figured out. I'm beyond wishing for trier to stop killing us in games with his inflated sense of his skills.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:02 pm

Winning on the road shows progress and coming from 13down shows some toughness we had not showed.

I didn't watch it but followed it on game tracker and we know we have a third scorer when RA gets back but too me BR is starting to show some progress that could make him a very key guy in March.

It seems UNLV's frontcourt had a big game but there back court was somewhat neutralized. Once again, progress

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:05 pm

We need to find a guy like Shakur Juiston next season. JUCO POY coming out of Hutchinson CC (same as Kadeem).

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:21 pm

azcat49 wrote:BR is starting to show some progress that could make him a very key guy in March.

If only CSM would give him more than 15 minutes a night to learn from his mistakes and get into a rhythm.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:46 am

Chicat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:BR is starting to show some progress that could make him a very key guy in March.
If only CSM would give him more than 15 minutes a night to learn from his mistakes and get into a rhythm.

That's a fine line to walk as a coach. You want to let a player work through his mistakes. But you're also trying to win the game. You can only allow so much of a learning curve per game, especially for this team. You can't hide a freshman like BR on the floor and let him learn from his mistakes while others pick up the slack because so many others on the roster are having the same issues.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:23 am

zonagrad wrote:
Chicat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:BR is starting to show some progress that could make him a very key guy in March.
If only CSM would give him more than 15 minutes a night to learn from his mistakes and get into a rhythm.
That's a fine line to walk as a coach. You want to let a player work through his mistakes. But you're also trying to win the game. You can only allow so much of a learning curve per game, especially for this team. You can't hide a freshman like BR on the floor and let him learn from his mistakes while others pick up the slack because so many others on the roster are having the same issues.

If CSM wants great team defense right out of the gate, he should stop recruiting so many one-&-dones. You can’t have the roster turnover we do and expect these kids who have rarely been tasked with playing defense before, to be even halfway competent this early in the season.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:28 am

CalStateTempe wrote:Just what we needed before TAMU.

God I hope we can get our defense figured out. I'm beyond wishing for trier to stop killing us in games with his inflated sense of his skills.

Trier had a pretty good game. He had a few bad shots but his stat line is pretty good

10-19 fg, 1-6 from 3. 8-9 fts, 5 rbs, 2 as, 2 tos

Ayton was 12-23. Who else on this team do you want shooting?
*

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 am

Just finished watching the game. This team is better with Only one 7 footer on the floor.
I hope the light was permanently switched on. The switch says "Fun and Gun starts with defense and rebounding."

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:09 am

I am to the point where I would like to see a starting line up of PJC, Zo, Alkins, Ayton and Pinder. Bring Lee, Ristic Randolph and Barcelo off the bench.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:19 am

azcat49 wrote:I am to the point where I would like to see a starting line up of PJC, Zo, Alkins, Ayton and Pinder. Bring Lee, Ristic Randolph and Barcelo off the bench.

Agreed. Ristic and Ayton should hardly ever be on the court at the same time.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:32 am

84Cat wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Just what we needed before TAMU.

God I hope we can get our defense figured out. I'm beyond wishing for trier to stop killing us in games with his inflated sense of his skills.
Trier had a pretty good game. He had a few bad shots but his stat line is pretty good

10-19 fg, 1-6 from 3. 8-9 fts, 5 rbs, 2 as, 2 tos

Ayton was 12-23. Who else on this team do you want shooting?
*

No one, that's his job and I'm going to stop wishing he was a different player or had a different skill set.

Going back to early last year in this thread i have said that he is a great athlete and talent, but need to develop his defensive game, his passing, and his situational awareness.

Maybe he has among lower tier competition, but that road is narrowing. I have the yet to see him do the same agaisnt compatible or higher competition.

So I'm going to stop beating a dead horse. He is what he is. Trier givith and trier taketh away. He's good for 20+ a game with only a marginal +\- due to defensive lapses, poor shot election early in the count, going one on three and a few offensive fouls.

Just keep scoring trier.

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:24 am

positives: rawle is coming back, pac 12 is the weakest major conference. can still run through the conference if rawle improves the team

the conference being weak is also a negative, likely going to get a really bad seed

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 am

Ristic is a 5-8 minutes per game guy to come in when other bigs are in foul trouble.

You could make a very easy case that our initial deficit was mainly a product of Ristic's ineptitude.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:06 am

Liked the fight the team showed but need that times 3 to win Tuesday

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:14 am

What is our best lineup when Rawle comes back? I would seriously consider trying Rawle at the 4. The combo of Ayton and Ristic doesn't seem to work.

PG- PJC
SG- Trier
SF- Randolph
PF- Alkins
C- Ayton

or our most experienced lineup

PG- PJC
SG- Trier
SF- Alkins
PF- Pinder
C- Ayton

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:00 pm

Dave wrote:What is our best lineup when Rawle comes back? I would seriously consider trying Rawle at the 4. The combo of Ayton and Ristic doesn't seem to work.

PG- PJC
SG- Trier
SF- Randolph
PF- Alkins
C- Ayton

or our most experienced lineup

PG- PJC
SG- Trier
SF- Alkins
PF- Pinder
C- Ayton

Alkins there is good for a situational four guard lineup. But the 4 spot is going to be a piece of tape to cover up our hole between the 3 and the 5.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:17 pm

Is Ristic overweight or just naturally slow? Serious question. If it’s the former, that’s really disappointing for a senior.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:39 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Is Ristic overweight or just naturally slow? Serious question. If it’s the former, that’s really disappointing for a senior.

Why do you think he might be overweight?

Here's a myth: Being one of those rare 7 feet tall guys gives you an advantage to make it to the NBA, whereas all those 6' 3" guys have to emerge from an ocean of competition.

The reality is: Being 7 feet tall depletes you of quickness, jumping, and good hands, predisposing you to a limit on how far you can go in the sport. Ristic is really good basketball player with a great touch and fantastic footwork, and he's a natural 7 footer, which makes him pale in comparison to those very, very rare 7 footers with unnatural quickness and jumping ability.

Ever wonder why really tall guys are so nice? I think part of it comes from a level of sympathy that comes from being so disadvantaged in PE class, not to mention having to live with the weirdness of conversing with shorter humans (by nature, most of which are women) whose eyes are at your crotch level.

Ristic can only do so much. Miller's insistence that he works harder than anyone ever suggests that he hasn't developed a weight problem.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:43 pm

Tuesday will be very telling

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:33 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
84Cat wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Just what we needed before TAMU.

God I hope we can get our defense figured out. I'm beyond wishing for trier to stop killing us in games with his inflated sense of his skills.
Trier had a pretty good game. He had a few bad shots but his stat line is pretty good

10-19 fg, 1-6 from 3. 8-9 fts, 5 rbs, 2 as, 2 tos

Ayton was 12-23. Who else on this team do you want shooting?
*
No one, that's his job and I'm going to stop wishing he was a different player or had a different skill set.

Going back to early last year in this thread i have said that he is a great athlete and talent, but need to develop his defensive game, his passing, and his situational awareness.

Maybe he has among lower tier competition, but that road is narrowing. I have the yet to see him do the same agaisnt compatible or higher competition.

So I'm going to stop beating a dead horse. He is what he is. Trier givith and trier taketh away. He's good for 20+ a game with only a marginal +\- due to defensive lapses, poor shot election early in the count, going one on three and a few offensive fouls.

Just keep scoring trier.

I know I quoted you but I wasn't trying to call you out. I was genuinely surprised how well Zo played statistically. I understand your criticisms of his game and they are mostly true. Our problem is he is still our second best player. When he lets the game come to him, he is good. When he forces it, not so much. Rawle will help out defensively although we are going to struggle with teams that have good guard play. It's where we are at and there is not a lot we can do about it. Hopefully Miller gets more creative on defense and the guys get better at closing down the perimeter. We just need to keep improving at this point.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:15 pm

With Rawle's return, not only will Miller gain an experienced and tough player, he'll have more leverage with the players who refuse to play defense. And yes, that includes Trier. A little bench time for Allonzo for not defending better couldn't hurt. And I don't think Miller is afraid to go that route if he sees that Trier is taking plays off on the defensive end.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:13 pm

'Bama just loss to UCF.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:13 pm

Think Brandon Randolph will go to the bench when Alkins comes back. Hope he doesn't get all disgruntled ala Kobi Simmons. Dylan Smith did some good things last night, I like something about his game that stands out. Hope he still keeps getting some playing time but is prone to defensive mistakes (though those are happening to virtually everyone. Zo's weakside help defense is just atrocious).

At times Ayton is unstoppable, we should simply give him the ball more as Miller said right after the game. Maybe go to it more later on in the game too as the other team wears out guarding him...he can make good individual moves that he has. Not necessarily back-to-the basket moves, but lateral quickness moves that he has to get by his defender, along with the little hooks shots and fadeaways he's good at.

Pinder does do some of the glue things that the freshman aren't doing.

I've never been down on Barcello at all. He has a great looking shot, good motor and he's just a freshman on the road. No cause for concern. He comes in and has a pretty good energy, but when he misses all his shots it makes it look worse.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:23 pm

Sorta think Rawle’s back on Tuesday.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:15 am

TheGreatCatsby wrote:Think Brandon Randolph will go to the bench when Alkins comes back. Hope he doesn't get all disgruntled ala Kobi Simmons. Dylan Smith did some good things last night, I like something about his game that stands out. Hope he still keeps getting some playing time but is prone to defensive mistakes (though those are happening to virtually everyone. Zo's weakside help defense is just atrocious).

At times Ayton is unstoppable, we should simply give him the ball more as Miller said right after the game. Maybe go to it more later on in the game too as the other team wears out guarding him...he can make good individual moves that he has. Not necessarily back-to-the basket moves, but lateral quickness moves that he has to get by his defender, along with the little hooks shots and fadeaways he's good at.

Pinder does do some of the glue things that the freshman aren't doing.

I've never been down on Barcello at all. He has a great looking shot, good motor and he's just a freshman on the road. No cause for concern. He comes in and has a pretty good energy, but when he misses all his shots it makes it look worse.

Some good takes. Plus, I think that Lee's energy is worth his mistakes as a frosh.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:17 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Sorta think Rawle’s back on Tuesday.

Now you tell me after I already made my RAP picks without him. Can I make a new set of RAP picks?

FreeSpiritCat · Post by **FreeSpiritCat** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:31 am

DiehardDave37 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Sorta think Rawle’s back on Tuesday.
Now you tell me after I already made my RAP picks without him. Can I make a new set of RAP picks?

That was only a guess. It isn’t fact.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:29 am

Catintheheat wrote:
DiehardDave37 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Sorta think Rawle’s back on Tuesday.
Now you tell me after I already made my RAP picks without him. Can I make a new set of RAP picks?
That was only a guess. It isn’t fact.

True. But he teased a return this past weekend, and what better time to come back than against the highest ranked team we’ll face in the reg season? And it’s at McKale. I’m just reading the signs.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:35 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
Catintheheat wrote:
DiehardDave37 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Sorta think Rawle’s back on Tuesday.
Now you tell me after I already made my RAP picks without him. Can I make a new set of RAP picks?
That was only a guess. It isn’t fact.
True. But he teased a return this past weekend, and what better time to come back than against the highest ranked team we’ll face in the reg season? And it’s at McKale. I’m just reading the signs.

See the RA thread. Not yet.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:36 am

Seriously doubt he'll be back Tuesday.

Interesting to see if the team builds on the comeback or backslides, thinking they can just outscore teams. Again, there isn't ONE problem or lineup change that fixes this. Even when Ristic was out, UNLV had to just move the ball side to side, then attack off the dribble. It wasn't so much that McCoy was great (though he is very good). It's that the defense broke down and he was handed the ball for dunks. Or the driver missed and the putback was simple. The problem remains on the perimeter. UNLV gave the game away by deviating from this and jacking some threes. And then Parker came up with that clutch steal. Ayton was just great, but don't get used to teams playing him one on one. Guys are gonna have to make shots; we're going to have to get stops.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:39 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
Catintheheat wrote:
DiehardDave37 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Sorta think Rawle’s back on Tuesday.
Now you tell me after I already made my RAP picks without him. Can I make a new set of RAP picks?
That was only a guess. It isn’t fact.
True. But he teased a return this past weekend, and what better time to come back than against the highest ranked team we’ll face in the reg season? And it’s at McKale. I’m just reading the signs.

Clearly you didn't read the right sign if you think the game is at McKale.

Game is in Phoenix at Talking Stick Resport Arena

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am

loomer wrote: One thing Milller can do is to deploy a packline more similar to Izzo or what Gonzaga was successful with last year. Ristic is not Tarczewski and can't recover nearly as well when hedging that far out. And even when Tarc was here we would get burned by it from time to time. Last year, Few had Karnowski play more of a containment type defense only hedging out just below the 3-point line. Karnowski was also a mountain of a player so of course that helped too. It's actually really interesting watching how Gonzaga played defense last year, as it seems they ran more of a hybrid than anything else. At times they looked like a traditional Izzo packline with more switching and less hedging and at other times their guards played above the invisible packline arc more akin to standard man to man. The problem is that Sean has always been more of a fan of the Bennett packline philosophy than the Izzo one, and even Izzo will deviate at times depending on the matchup https://bballbreakdown.com/2015/03/27/m ... djustment/

Good post. This year Gonzaga reminds me of some of Lute's athletic teams that would switch everything on the perimeter. Creighton has solid guards but they acknowledged that this stymied their ball-screen attack. Zags are quick and have good size at every position. Tillie and Williams can chase guards.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:10 am

gumby wrote:Seriously doubt he'll be back Tuesday.

Interesting to see if the team builds on the comeback or backslides, thinking they can just outscore teams. Again, there isn't ONE problem or lineup change that fixes this. Even when Ristic was out, UNLV had to just move the ball side to side, then attack off the dribble. It wasn't so much that McCoy was great (though he is very good). It's that the defense broke down and he was handed the ball for dunks. Or the driver missed and the putback was simple. The problem remains on the perimeter. UNLV gave the game away by deviating from this and jacking some threes. And then Parker came up with that clutch steal. Ayton was just great, but don't get used to teams playing him one on one. Guys are gonna have to make shots; we're going to have to get stops.

Arizona won the game because UNLV missed an open three, twice.

Happy for the win, and the team battled rather than folded...which was a good sign. IMO Randloph needs to get playing time to learn, much like Lee has--mistakes an all. I know Miller is more comfortable with Smith because he's been in system longer, but Randolph is clearly a better offensive player and not nearly as selfish.

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:39 am

Dave wrote:What is our best lineup when Rawle comes back? I would seriously consider trying Rawle at the 4. The combo of Ayton and Ristic doesn't seem to work.

PG- PJC
SG- Trier
SF- Randolph
PF- Alkins
C- Ayton

or our most experienced lineup

PG- PJC
SG- Trier
SF- Alkins
PF- Pinder
C- Ayton

1 ball handler, 3 wings, 1 post.

Park Ayton on the block, there's no one who can stop him.

G: PJC
G: Trier
G: Alkins
F: Akot
F/C: Ayton

That lineup would be ideal but Akot doesn't know what he's doing so some adjustments would have to be made. 4 guards on the lineup with Randolph. With a ton of college teams playing small this shouldn't be too crazy.

G: PJC
G: Trier
G: Randolph
G: Alkins
F/C: Ayton

Need Akot to figure it out. But Miller likes playing big so we'll keep seeing Ristic.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:42 am

When Rawle comes back you go small and run.

G: PJC
G: Trier
G: Ranloph
G/F: Alkins
F/C: Ayton

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:45 am

Akot is the biggest surprise for me. Expected much more by now. Instead, he's buried and that will get worse when Alkins gets back. So much to learn. Hope he's a willing student, because he has what we so desperately need: great size, potential to defend really well and moves the ball.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:53 am

gumby wrote:Akot is the biggest surprise for me. Expected much more by now. Instead, he's buried and that will get worse when Alkins gets back. So much to learn. Hope he's a willing student, because he has what we so desperately need: great size, potential to defend really well and moves the ball.

It's disappointing bc if we want to go to a small lineup, he makes the most sense as a 3 playing 4. He has all the tools, but the mental side matters and it looks like he's having issues. It isn't talent.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:18 am

Olsondogg wrote:When Rawle comes back you go small and run.

G: PJC
G: Trier
G: Ranloph
G/F: Alkins
F/C: Ayton

Yes. When we face bigger teams, go with Pinder and Lee. Try Ristic for a few minutes.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:05 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:When Rawle comes back you go small and run.

G: PJC
G: Trier
G: Ranloph
G/F: Alkins
F/C: Ayton
Yes. When we face bigger teams, go with Pinder and Lee. Try Ristic for a few minutes.

I would go heavily situational lineups. Two bigs that can't really spread the floor, you can play Dusan and Ayton together against them. Against smaller, quicker spread teams, I would give Lee time. Pinder is so limited, and Lee has the higher upside.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:15 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:When Rawle comes back you go small and run.

G: PJC
G: Trier
G: Ranloph
G/F: Alkins
F/C: Ayton
Yes. When we face bigger teams, go with Pinder and Lee. Try Ristic for a few minutes.
I would go heavily situational lineups. Two bigs that can't really spread the floor, you can play Dusan and Ayton together against them. Against smaller, quicker spread teams, I would give Lee time. Pinder is so limited, and Lee has the higher upside.

I think Lee is getting more play than Pinder now.

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