Goodbye Miller

killervibe · Post by **killervibe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:17 pm

If this is true, Sean Miller’s career at Arizona is over. Even worse, the program will be laid bare by the NCAA.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... estigation" target="_blank

ztonyg · Post by **ztonyg** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:21 pm

Arizona Basketball 1984 - 2018. RIP.

killervibe · Post by **killervibe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:23 pm

On the bright side, he doesn’t have any National Championships to forfeit. So there’s that.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:24 pm

Wow. Just wow.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:36 pm

I would assume that this will be Miller’s last season at Arizona and that they will have to deal with probation and a one season postseason ban. I think the scope of this scandal is going to be too big to go much beyond that. They can’t give multiple powers the death penalty.

I also think that we will see massive reform before next year. The NCAA is on the ropes and can you imagine the booster stuff they would find if they wanted to really look. Espescially in SEC football.

I really hope that Miller told the truth to the FBI.

CatMG · Post by **CatMG** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:45 pm

Yep, ZERO chance that Miller and Arizona are in this alone. Hell after looking at the stories for earlier today, it was looking like UA might not be in that bad of shape regarding the investigation (i.e. Book was acting as a rouge coach). But after seeing this Miller story, I can't believe more stories like this won't be coming out for other schools.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:47 pm

Fire him now - GOOD RIDDANCE

sweaty crook couldn't even win with the most cheating - horrible coach

thanks for killing UA basketball you sweaty bennett ball bastard!!!

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:52 pm

Can we fire RnF from the boards?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:52 pm

Welp
We just advanced to overall number one seed in spiffs and longhorned fbi tourney bracket.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:53 pm

CatMG wrote:Yep, ZERO chance that Miller and Arizona are in this alone. Hell after looking at the stories for earlier today, it was looking like UA might not be in that bad of shape regarding the investigation (i.e. Book was acting as a rouge coach). But after seeing this Miller story, I can't believe more stories like this won't be coming out for other schools.

https://sports.yahoo.com/black-market-d ... 05930.html" target="_blank

I posted in the other thread, but it's already here.

That article has us mentioned again, Michigan State and Indiana assistants trying to bargain current players for Brian Bowen, Josh Jackson getting $10,000 a month...and it's only a part of the story.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:54 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Welp
We just advanced to overall number one seed in spiffs and longhorned fbi tourney bracket.

West bracket?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:57 pm

azgreg wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Welp
We just advanced to overall number one seed in spiffs and longhorned fbi tourney bracket.
West bracket?

Playing in Anaheim

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:59 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
azgreg wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Welp
We just advanced to overall number one seed in spiffs and longhorned fbi tourney bracket.
West bracket?

Playing in Anaheim

Love Anaheim. Wurstkuche here I come.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:00 pm

I want to listen to the recording. I think it will help my grieving

Macho Grande · Post by **Macho Grande** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:01 pm

Wonder if we'd be able to pull Gregg Marshall away from Wichita St.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:01 pm

So far we know about the following big payments (or offers too):

Brian Bowen 150K
Ayton 100K
Dennis Smith JR. 77K

All were of course five stars. I’m pretty confident that we’ll see a lot more of it and this is simply how high end basketball recruiting is done.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:02 pm

Macho Grande wrote:Wonder if we'd be able to pull Gregg Marshall away from Wichita St.

Would we hire someone from a school that was also implicated? Seems unlikely

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:03 pm

Macho Grande wrote:Wonder if we'd be able to pull Gregg Marshall away from Wichita St.

He's implicated with Van Fleet.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:04 pm

RaisingArizona wrote:So far we know about the following big payments (or offers too):

Brian Bowen 150K
Ayton 100K
Dennis Smith JR. 77K

All were of course five stars. I’m pretty confident that we’ll see a lot more of it and this is simply how high end basketball recruiting is done.

Kevin White $72.81

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:06 pm

RaisingArizona wrote:So far we know about the following big payments (or offers too):

Brian Bowen 150K
Ayton 100K
Dennis Smith JR. 77K

All were of course five stars. I’m pretty confident that we’ll see a lot more of it and this is simply how high end basketball recruiting is done.

Check out the article I posted above. At some point, Josh Jackson's mom was getting paid by Under Armour, Adidas and ASM. UA was 10k a month and it's not clear on the rest.

Good lord.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:06 pm

RaisingArizona wrote:
Macho Grande wrote:Wonder if we'd be able to pull Gregg Marshall away from Wichita St.
Would we hire someone from a school that was also implicated? Seems unlikely

At this point, who isn't implicated.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:07 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:So far we know about the following big payments (or offers too):

Brian Bowen 150K
Ayton 100K
Dennis Smith JR. 77K

All were of course five stars. I’m pretty confident that we’ll see a lot more of it and this is simply how high end basketball recruiting is done.
Check out the article I posted above. At some point, Josh Jackson's mom was getting paid by Under Armour, Adidas and ASM. UA was 10k a month and it's not clear on the rest.

Good lord.

Again, what is the basis upon which relative guilt is determined? And what good does it render to fans?

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:09 pm

If all this true Sean really really damaged what Lute built.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 pm

My wife just got a text about this. Unreal.

I truly am in shock.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:If all this true Sean really really damaged what Lute built.

Lute played the same game everyone else is playing. Don't be so naive.

CatMG · Post by **CatMG** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:12 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:If all this true Sean really really damaged what Lute built.

Looks like a lot of "buildings" are crumbling down.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:13 pm

How much longer until Arizona and miller release statements.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:14 pm

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Frybry02 wrote:How much longer until Arizona and miller release statements.

I would guess early A.M.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

If Miller discussed 100K for Ayton, how much did Bagley cost Duke? Just a scholarship?

On another note, I think the bar for reporting has never been lower. ESPN is citing "sources" familiar with the FBI investigation. What "sources?" I don't the accuracy of the information, but I find it terrible journalism to cite sources without naming them.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Frybry02 wrote:How much longer until Arizona and miller release statements.

We’re all waiting. Either soon or first thing tomorrow.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:17 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:If all this true Sean really really damaged what Lute built.

Lol every major coach and program since Wooden have done this.

CatMG · Post by **CatMG** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:19 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:
TheGreatCatsby wrote:If all this true Sean really really damaged what Lute built.
Lol every major coach and program since Wooden have done this.

You mean .........INCLUDING Wooden, no?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Wooden just ignored Sam Gilbert, so yes he was complicit.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:25 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:So far we know about the following big payments (or offers too):

Brian Bowen 150K
Ayton 100K
Dennis Smith JR. 77K

All were of course five stars. I’m pretty confident that we’ll see a lot more of it and this is simply how high end basketball recruiting is done.
Check out the article I posted above. At some point, Josh Jackson's mom was getting paid by Under Armour, Adidas and ASM. UA was 10k a month and it's not clear on the rest.

Good lord.
Again, what is the basis upon which relative guilt is determined? And what good does it render to fans?

I mean, I wouldn't jump the gun on Miller.

Just from the info released today:

Michigan State coaches directly negotiated steering players in exchange for Brian Bowen. So did an ex-Indiana coach.

Half the ACC had players paid by ASM. Clemson, Virginia...before you even get to the free dinners.

Kansas took Josh Jackson at a time he was getting paid by 2 different shoe companies and an agent.

WICHITA STATE had a paid player for God's sake.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
dovecanyoncat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:So far we know about the following big payments (or offers too):

Brian Bowen 150K
Ayton 100K
Dennis Smith JR. 77K

All were of course five stars. I’m pretty confident that we’ll see a lot more of it and this is simply how high end basketball recruiting is done.
Check out the article I posted above. At some point, Josh Jackson's mom was getting paid by Under Armour, Adidas and ASM. UA was 10k a month and it's not clear on the rest.

Good lord.
Again, what is the basis upon which relative guilt is determined? And what good does it render to fans?
I mean, I wouldn't jump the gun on Miller.

Just from the info released today:

Michigan State coaches directly negotiated steering players in exchange for Brian Bowen. So did an ex-Indiana coach.

Half the ACC had players paid by ASM. Clemson, Virginia...before you even get to the free dinners.

Kansas took Josh Jackson at a time he was getting paid by 2 different shoe companies and an agent.

WICHITA STATE had a paid player for God's sake.

Got it. Believe me, I got it. Emotionally (not conceptually) I'm clinging to comfort of a resolution as much as any fan, but my dependence on the guilt of others leaves me without comfort. It's like saying my coach is Lance Armstrong without the victories. See what I mean?

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:37 pm

I said it before, maybe not on this board, but college basketball and football should divorce the NCAA and the colleges. They should become professional minor leagues. What does that do to college sports? Make it for amateurs, real life amateurs. The schools can make some cash by licensing their brands and facilities back to the minor league teams. There, problem fixed.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 pm

Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:45 pm

Great post, zg.

I’m still too rattled and numb to really process all of this, but your perspective is still helpful and insightful.

Macho Grande · Post by **Macho Grande** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:45 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
Macho Grande wrote:Wonder if we'd be able to pull Gregg Marshall away from Wichita St.
He's implicated with Van Fleet.

Damn. I didn't know that Marshall's name came up in all this. That's a bummer since I wanted him if Miller ever bolted.

azthrillhouse · Post by **azthrillhouse** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:48 pm

Basnight was right.

There isn’t enough alcohol for this level of pain.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:49 pm

zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.

Right. Agree. But it has no bearing as to consequence.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:50 pm

zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.

but the schools that are not implicated or haven't been able to play this game (i.e. colorado) will have this over the Arizona's of the world...so it does matter..you gotta play by the rules or changes the rules.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:51 pm

zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.

Preach.

The NCAA's model is based on a system where tons of people want to pay players, players want to be paid, it is a smart financial decision for everyone...and the NCAA slaps down arbitrary rules to prevent all of that. Then, they get shocked that when there are literally millions of dollars at stake for everyone, people don't abide by their rules.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:52 pm

UALoco wrote:
zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.
but the schools that are not implicated or haven't been able to play this game (i.e. colorado) will have this over the Arizona's of the world...so it does matter..you gotta play by the rules or changes the rules.

If you think Colorado hasn't had a player receive extra benefits, I have some prime real estate in Aspen to sell you.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:55 pm

azthrillhouse wrote:Basnight was right.

There isn’t enough alcohol for this level of pain.

Ahem ... some of us are prepared but as yet are just approaching the needed level of medicinal comfort. Give me time. I need time.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:58 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UALoco wrote:
zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.
but the schools that are not implicated or haven't been able to play this game (i.e. colorado) will have this over the Arizona's of the world...so it does matter..you gotta play by the rules or changes the rules.
If you think Colorado hasn't had a player receive extra benefits, I have some prime real estate in Aspen to sell you.

we'll I know there has to be one D1 team that didn't pay a player...give them the championship now.

FreeSpiritCat · Post by **FreeSpiritCat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 pm

UALoco wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UALoco wrote:
zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.
but the schools that are not implicated or haven't been able to play this game (i.e. colorado) will have this over the Arizona's of the world...so it does matter..you gotta play by the rules or changes the rules.
If you think Colorado hasn't had a player receive extra benefits, I have some prime real estate in Aspen to sell you.
we'll I know there has to be one D1 team that didn't pay a player...give them the championship now.

I guess an Ivy League school should win the championship by default.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 pm

It’s hard to put this in some kind of communicable frame of reference. My wife is being great and letting me vent about all of it. But really, it still feels so strange and sad. Can’t compare it to a death because, well, nobody died. But I do feel a sense of loss, even grief.

I’ve followed this program for so many years. Have watched them rise and fall so many times. Through it all, there’s always been the undercurrent of pride and hope. Lute brought excellence and grace to AZ basketball. Feels like it’s been taken away tonight.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:03 pm

UALoco wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UALoco wrote:
zonagrad wrote:Every coach at every major program has played the same game for years. It's naive to believe otherwise. I find it comical that everyone is shocked that the truth is out that, "yes, players have actually been getting paid." And frankly, I could care less that Ayton got paid by a shoe company or an agent. Or Miles Bridges. Or Josh Jackson. Or whoever. The games are played on the court. How a player got there is irrelevant. This has been going on for decades. Coaches are guilty. Players are guilty. Parents are guilty. But somehow the NCAA and all the people who hold jobs at university athletic departments and take home six-figure salaries are clean even though they benefit financially from a system where the people who actually create the enormous revenue receive very little compensation.
but the schools that are not implicated or haven't been able to play this game (i.e. colorado) will have this over the Arizona's of the world...so it does matter..you gotta play by the rules or changes the rules.
If you think Colorado hasn't had a player receive extra benefits, I have some prime real estate in Aspen to sell you.
we'll I know there has to be one D1 team that didn't pay a player...give them the championship now.

Alabama A&M is last in KenPom, RPI, and Sagarin. 2-25. Give them the trophy - if they are paying players they are doing it wrong.

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