Sean Miller

[Postmaster]

My understanding is that the fbi told the ncaa to stand down until this was over.
So ncaa won't do much for some time.
Agents are paying or "loaning" money to players. The coaches/schools/boosters are not.
Why is the Adidas guy dealing with AZ?
Pretty sure JT took money from agent and caused AZ to get sanctions.
Simon and Kerr are not coaching here.
Russ Pennel, maybe.


What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

[CalStateTempe]

If, and I underline IF, this is true then Miller will get no sympathy from me.

If true, he is not only a cheating crook, but a really STUPID cheating crook. If you are a head coach and intend to cheat then you damn well
better make sure that there are a very large number of intermediaries between you and the $$$$$$$. Anyone talking $$$$ with a recruit or his parents should be some 3rd party lawyer residing in the Caymans.

I think that only goes to show how ordinary this is in college basketball. Pitino was doing the same.

The fact that this is all documented and in normal, course of business emails shows this is just how the game is played.

You may well be right Spiff, but at the moment there is only a handful of coaches that have actually been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. The vast majority of the money changing was between agents/players.............most of the schools named have not had a head coach or even an assistant implicated. So, if Miller was just "Playing the Game", he did it very, very badly.

Elite Eight Miller.

[CalStateTempe]

My understanding is that the fbi told the ncaa to stand down until this was over.
So ncaa won't do much for some time.
Agents are paying or "loaning" money to players. The coaches/schools/boosters are not.
Why is the Adidas guy dealing with AZ?
Pretty sure JT took money from agent and caused AZ to get sanctions.
Simon and Kerr are not coaching here.
Russ Pennel, maybe.


What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

Fuck Book. He doesn't go outside the system and we are fine. Fuck that guy.

[UAEebs86]

So were Miller and Book paying for players at Xavier? Only less, like $75K?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I’m sick.

The only thing that would make me feel better is if we got some details on Duke’s most recent recruiting classes.

Remember the FBI's initial announcement about how 150k is the going rate?

It has become a lot more set in stone that it was truth today. My only big question is like Longhorned: Does the NCAA try to scapegoat and maintain the illusion or accept reality.

Whichever is easiest. Right now, that's scapegoat. Hard to see that changing. The masses of people who tune into March Madness don't really even know who Jay Bilas is. All that money doesn't hinge on objections to the illusion.

Yeah...but if this news was quiet for this long, what else is coming. Look at the Yahoo article on emails. Michigan State was bartering players signing with ASM for Bowen. Josh Jackson was getting paid by 2 shoe companies and an agent when he signed with KU.

We haven't even seen the results of the search warrant at Nike AAU's HQ mentioned yet. What came out of that?

Right now, maybe the NCAA could scapegoat. By the time this is over...?

[Harvey Specter]

IMNSHO, it makes no difference if "everybody else is doing it" (of course not everybody, but whatever). If anyone did it, they were cheating. Period.

I suppose there is some remote possibility that Miller is innocent of the allegation here, but even the most lax interpretayion of "institutional control" would seem to mandate the he should be suspended pending a full investigation.

And, again IMNSHO, if it turns out he did this (Ayton, and maybe others), fuck him. We're not there yet, but it doesn't look good.

No excuses.

So you don't sympathize with finding ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so.

Don't conflate 2 completely separate issues.

I don't believe Sean was "trying to find ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so."

He (and other coaches) got very rich playing a dirty game and were very much part of the system of exploitation. Robin Hood these guys are not.

I just wish someone would be man enough to step forward, say "Yes it's going on and I have been part of it. Let's blow up the sham and do the right thing: change the system and do it all out in the open".

[jsbowl16]

I said this would happen to Miller when RR was hired. I have never been so sad to be right.

[Irish27]

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... &id=201408" target="_blank

[CatFanOneMil]

No matter who wins this years tourney there will always be a cloud of suspicion over it or it will be vacated along with the last many years...

I'm a Gonzaga fan now.

[Longhorned]

IMNSHO, it makes no difference if "everybody else is doing it" (of course not everybody, but whatever). If anyone did it, they were cheating. Period.

I suppose there is some remote possibility that Miller is innocent of the allegation here, but even the most lax interpretayion of "institutional control" would seem to mandate the he should be suspended pending a full investigation.

And, again IMNSHO, if it turns out he did this (Ayton, and maybe others), fuck him. We're not there yet, but it doesn't look good.

No excuses.

So you don't sympathize with finding ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so.

Don't conflate 2 completely separate issues.

I don't believe Sean was "trying to find ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so."

He (and other coaches) got very rich playing a dirty game and were very much part of the system of exploitation. Robin Hood these guys are not.

I just wish someone would be man enough to step forward, say "Yes it's going on and I have been part of it. Let's blow up the sham and do the right thing: change the system and do it all out in the open".

I was referring to "fuck Ayton", not what coaches and boosters do.

[UAEebs86]

I said this would happen to Miller when RR was hired. I have never been so sad to be right.

Don't get the connection - please explain.

[CatFanOneMil]

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... &id=201408

Fuck Greg Hansen with a splintered telephone pole he's always hated Miller and never really been a fan of anyone who runs the program.

[Postmaster]

Why would they pop Book and my do anything to CSM?
Its not like these are recent wire taps.
It all seems a bit odd.


And Fuck Vital

[PHXCATS]

My understanding is that the fbi told the ncaa to stand down until this was over.
So ncaa won't do much for some time.
Agents are paying or "loaning" money to players. The coaches/schools/boosters are not.
Why is the Adidas guy dealing with AZ?
Pretty sure JT took money from agent and caused AZ to get sanctions.
Simon and Kerr are not coaching here.
Russ Pennel, maybe.


What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

Fuck Book. He doesn't go outside the system and we are fine. Fuck that guy.

I highly doubt that after today

[CatFanOneMil]

Why would they pop Book and my do anything to CSM?
Its not like these are recent wire taps.
It all seems a bit odd.


And Fuck Vital

^^^This^^^ unless of course Miller was funneling money for a shoe company and they want corporate...

The leaking timing of this is very suspect to me as well...

[zonagrad]

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... &id=201408

Fuck Greg Hansen with a splintered telephone pole he's always hated Miller and never really been a fan of anyone who runs the program.

If you're ready to fire Miller, then the whole system needs to come down. You can't tell me that Rick Pitino was dirty. And Sean Miller was dirty. But Tom Izzo, he's fine. Coach K, fine. Bill Self, fine, etc... Whether coaches knew all the financial details matters little. They're all part of the same hypocrisy.

[SunnyAZ]

What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

well, half the comments are about that so I would say it wasn't an effective strategy if so.

Also somebody has to inform me how the FBI is supposed to be held accountable for the shooting? I saw people say people called the POLICE about it but what does that have to do with the FBI? Just because Trump blamed them?

[jsbowl16]

I said this would happen to Miller when RR was hired. I have never been so sad to be right.

Don't get the connection - please explain.

There isnt one other than RR being known corrupt before he got here so I said that both of them would probably go down to corruption and they did.

I like Miller but these guys are all used car salesman.

[Irish27]

[zonagrad]

I said this would happen to Miller when RR was hired. I have never been so sad to be right.

Don't get the connection - please explain.

There isnt one other than RR being known corrupt before he got here so I said that both of them would probably go down to corruption and they did.

I like Miller but these guys are all used car salesman.

And so was Lute. And coach K. And Dean Smith. And Valvano. And Tark. And it's been that way for an awfully long time.

[jsbowl16]

I said this would happen to Miller when RR was hired. I have never been so sad to be right.

Don't get the connection - please explain.

There isnt one other than RR being known corrupt before he got here so I said that both of them would probably go down to corruption and they did.

I like Miller but these guys are all used car salesman.

And so was Lute. And coach K. And Dean Smith. And Valvano. And Tark. And it's been that way for an awfully long time.

Exactly which is why I said it years ago.

[Harvey Specter]

My understanding is that the fbi told the ncaa to stand down until this was over.
So ncaa won't do much for some time.
Agents are paying or "loaning" money to players. The coaches/schools/boosters are not.
Why is the Adidas guy dealing with AZ?
Pretty sure JT took money from agent and caused AZ to get sanctions.
Simon and Kerr are not coaching here.
Russ Pennel, maybe.


What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

Fuck Book. He doesn't go outside the system and we are fine. Fuck that guy.

Fuck Miller for letting his guy hang out to dry while lying through his teeth about what's gone on.

All for one and none for all? No thanks.

[UAEebs86]

I said this would happen to Miller when RR was hired. I have never been so sad to be right.

Don't get the connection - please explain.

There isnt one other than RR being known corrupt before he got here so I said that both of them would probably go down to corruption and they did.

I like Miller but these guys are all used car salesman.

And so was Lute. And coach K. And Dean Smith. And Valvano. And Tark. And it's been that way for an awfully long time.

Exactly which is why I said it years ago.

I saw a documentary (30 for 30?) on UNLV and 15 years later Tark was still claiming they were clean LOL.

[Postmaster]

What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

well, half the comments are about that so I would say it wasn't an effective strategy if so.

Also somebody has to inform me how the FBI is supposed to be held accountable for the shooting? I saw people say people called the POLICE about it but what does that have to do with the FBI? Just because Trump blamed them?

Don't want to divert too much.
Someone called FBI tip line but that message was never forwarded to the Miami field office.

[Harvey Specter]

IMNSHO, it makes no difference if "everybody else is doing it" (of course not everybody, but whatever). If anyone did it, they were cheating. Period.

I suppose there is some remote possibility that Miller is innocent of the allegation here, but even the most lax interpretayion of "institutional control" would seem to mandate the he should be suspended pending a full investigation.

And, again IMNSHO, if it turns out he did this (Ayton, and maybe others), fuck him. We're not there yet, but it doesn't look good.

No excuses.

So you don't sympathize with finding ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so.

Don't conflate 2 completely separate issues.

I don't believe Sean was "trying to find ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so."

He (and other coaches) got very rich playing a dirty game and were very much part of the system of exploitation. Robin Hood these guys are not.

I just wish someone would be man enough to step forward, say "Yes it's going on and I have been part of it. Let's blow up the sham and do the right thing: change the system and do it all out in the open".

I was referring to "fuck Ayton", not what coaches and boosters do.

My bad... sorry. Seemed inconsistent with my perception of your stance on such matters, so I should have trusted my intuition.

[jsbowl16]

Seth Greenberg said this morning that if you think bball is bad, football is much worse. This makes sense since there is more money in football. Football just hasnt been investigated by the FBI yet.

[97cats]

ya I mean the payment of players has been discussed openly here a few hundred times

my reflex is ‘wow’ for sure but also where does it end?? this is way bigger than Andy Miller

what will the NCAA do? suspend a dozen and a half players and fire a handful of coaches? Deny tournament entry?

all the best players are paid for and all the schools do it, on all levels just different increments.

this is just the surface if anybody wanted to scratch deeper, it’s pretty fascinating

[jsbowl16]

I thnk Louisville and us take the brunt of it. Maybe a few others but then once they find out everyone has done it, the damage will be done to the first few programs that are implicated.

[zonagrad]

As sure as the sun rises in the East, Duke and coach K will come out of this like Inspector Renault in Casablanca. "Shocked. Shocked to find college players being paid."

And Marvin Bagley never received a penny to play at Duke.

[jsbowl16]

I wonder if CBS has any kind of insurance for this sort of thing. Lets say the top 20 teams are not allowed in the tournament for violations. How many people will watch it? How much less will CBS make from advertising? This is why I doubt they will dq too many teams. There is too much tourney money at stake.

[zonagrad]

I wonder if CBS has any kind of insurance for this sort of thing. Lets say the top 20 teams are not allowed in the tournament for violations. How many people will watch it? How much less will CBS make from advertising? This is why I doubt they will dq too many teams. There is too much tourney money at stake.

If the top 20 teams are out, is Colorado and Tad Boyle back on the bubble?

[CatFanOneMil]

What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

well, half the comments are about that so I would say it wasn't an effective strategy if so.

Also somebody has to inform me how the FBI is supposed to be held accountable for the shooting? I saw people say people called the POLICE about it but what does that have to do with the FBI? Just because Trump blamed them?

Don't want to divert too much.
Someone called FBI tip line but that message was never forwarded to the Miami field office.

True but it still is not their jurisdiction, local cops didn't even go into the school...there's a bigger problem than forwarding tips here.

[Longhorned]

Why would the top 20 teams be out? Why would Arizona be out? The NCAA isn't supposed to act until the FBI investigation is over. These are leaks.

[pc in NM]

IMNSHO, it makes no difference if "everybody else is doing it" (of course not everybody, but whatever). If anyone did it, they were cheating. Period.

I suppose there is some remote possibility that Miller is innocent of the allegation here, but even the most lax interpretayion of "institutional control" would seem to mandate the he should be suspended pending a full investigation.

And, again IMNSHO, if it turns out he did this (Ayton, and maybe others), fuck him. We're not there yet, but it doesn't look good.

No excuses.

So you don't sympathize with finding ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so.

Don't conflate 2 completely separate issues.

I don't believe Sean was "trying to find ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so."

He (and other coaches) got very rich playing a dirty game and were very much part of the system of exploitation. Robin Hood these guys are not.

I just wish someone would be man enough to step forward, say "Yes it's going on and I have been part of it. Let's blow up the sham and do the right thing: change the system and do it all out in the open".

I was referring to "fuck Ayton", not what coaches and boosters do.

Just to be clear, I meant "fuck Miller", if he did, with Ayton or any others, what he is alleged to have done.

I have been a big fan of Miller. I've supported him since he was hired. I BELIEVED HIM. I'm allowing for the possibility that he is innocent of this. But, iF HE DID THIS, FUCK HIM.

As for the kids and their families, that's an entirely different story, and I'd judge each individual's circumstances one-at-a-time.

And, BTW, as for JT, I have forgiven him his transgression, but also advocated that he should still be subject to the consequences levied at the time....

[SunnyAZ]

What are chances this got leaked today to divert attention from the FBI's failure with the Florida shooter?

well, half the comments are about that so I would say it wasn't an effective strategy if so.

Also somebody has to inform me how the FBI is supposed to be held accountable for the shooting? I saw people say people called the POLICE about it but what does that have to do with the FBI? Just because Trump blamed them?

Don't want to divert too much.
Someone called FBI tip line but that message was never forwarded to the Miami field office.

well people are saying the cops got called 60 times about it. So it sounds like their response would've been, "Yeah, we know".

[CalStateTempe]

With these leaks someone is out to get Arizona.

[ramcat]

https://twitter.com/JavierJMorales/stat ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

[jsbowl16]

Why would the top 20 teams be out? Why would Arizona be out? The NCAA isn't supposed to act until the FBI investigation is over. These are leaks.

Depending on what these schools think they will be in for they might self sanction. We have no idea who will be implicated tomorrow, next week, etc. We just know there will be more.

[97cats]

I just saw that segment but didn’t get that feeling

[zonagrad]

With these leaks someone is out to get Arizona.

I suspect someone sympathetic to Duke. I mean, we did beat the shit out of them in the Sweet 16 when they were a #1 seed back in 2011. Was Miller paying Kyle Fogg back then?

[Longhorned]

https://twitter.com/JavierJMorales/stat ... twterm%5E0

[97cats]

Why would the top 20 teams be out? Why would Arizona be out? The NCAA isn't supposed to act until the FBI investigation is over. These are leaks.

Depending on what these schools think they will be in for they might self sanction. We have no idea who will be implicated tomorrow, next week, etc. We just know there will be more.

Suspend 20 was players and fire a handful of coaches???

this is so much bigger than Andy Miller

[Longhorned]

I just saw that segment but didn’t get that feeling

Which feeling?

[PHXCATS]

With these leaks someone is out to get Arizona.

You don't think someone is reporting what they get when they get it?

[Beachcat97]

https://twitter.com/JavierJMorales/stat ... twterm%5E0

This is crazy. There’s gotta be an official statement soon. I thought it would come early tomorrow, but this may be too hot to wait till morning. There’s gotta be some kind of response from the school.

[Longhorned]

With these leaks someone is out to get Arizona.

You don't think someone is reporting what they get when they get it?

He means the leaks, not the reporting of the leaks received.

[pc in NM]

Why would the top 20 teams be out? Why would Arizona be out? The NCAA isn't supposed to act until the FBI investigation is over. These are leaks.

I think it's about "institutional control" at this stage. With such an explosive allegation as this, being documented by wiretaps, I believe that the university must ta k e action commensurate with the seriousness of the allegation.

I believe that should probably involve suspension of Miller (probably with pay) pending a thorough investigation. To even discuss the possibility of a bribe is an odfense, and unacceptable (unless immediately reported to compliance staff.)

As for players, the information is far more vague - there u s no alleged information, in these reports, that payments were in fact made. Unless and until such information is surfaced, maybe they do not need to be suspended.

If any players are revealed to have accepted money, then they were ineligible to have played, and forfeits would be a likely consequence. If the university determines that self-sanction should include forfeits, then suspending post-season play would be a potential self-sanction....

This is how Arizona, or another team might "be out"....

[97cats]

I just saw that segment but didn’t get that feeling

Which feeling?

That AZ was standing by the October statement currently - mark Schwartz was seen in Oregon trying to track down anything AZ and has no email or calls returned, radio silence.

i don’t think AZ has made any official determination on anything up to this point.

this is however very crazy!!!

lol

[jsbowl16]

Why would the top 20 teams be out? Why would Arizona be out? The NCAA isn't supposed to act until the FBI investigation is over. These are leaks.

Depending on what these schools think they will be in for they might self sanction. We have no idea who will be implicated tomorrow, next week, etc. We just know there will be more.

Suspend 20 was players and fire a handful of coaches???

this is so much bigger than Andy Miller

97 do you know if just coaches of schools implicated before the season were wiretapped or was it the guys at the shoe companies? Im wondering if it is more likely that Miller, Pearl, etc were on that end of the phone or could it be coaches of teams not implicated before the season as well?

[RichardCranium]

Just a thought I'd like to inject...

I have an acquaintance who used to be closely connected to several west coast Athletic Departments. Not specifically UA however, but he ran in the same circles. He has been spot on about several things he couldn't possibly have been spot on about unless he knew what was what (but he has made a few misses too). Anyway he was mostly dealing with football and is retired now, but he is getting hints from his old contacts that the phone call 'wiretap' that 'caught' Miller saying talk to me about the money, was made with FBI agents in the room with Miller, and that Miller is on the front foot about the whole damn thing.

Now I don't know how much of a grain of salt to take with that. 'My Guy' has been right a heckuva lot more than he has been wrong and usually doesn't say anything unless he is pretty much sure of what he is talking about. Having said that, I am just not sure that he is really close enough to his old contacts or who they are or what their motives are. They might just be playing him, I don't know.

If Miller leaves the UA, might it be for the Witness Protection Program?