let's talk '18

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:49 pm

Some good news I guess

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:57 pm

NYCat wrote:
Good news I guess

We need to be recruiting every target we have hard. Akinjo and Williams can play together. Either can play with a grad transfer.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:33 pm

NYCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Early possibly likely whatever you want to call it 2018 class:

Brandon Williams
David Singleton
Emmanuel Akot
Taeshon Cherry
Bol Bol
Going by the early lists from 2015, 2016, 2017, we'll end up with different players yet a better class.

Yup

Quinerly
Williams
Little
O'Neal
Bol

Have to wonder if we stayed away from Quinerly or stayed with the original targets (maybe some substitutions for Singleton, Cherry etc) maybe we would've been better off and not caught up in the FBI mess.

But now the only one that really hurts is Little, dude looked amazing today during the McDs AA game. I don't think he was a top 15 recruit back then.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:56 pm

Little torched the McDonald's game tonight. If he was truly an Arizona lean, that is a very disappointing recruiting loss.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:58 pm

NYCat wrote:
Some good news I guess

Williams has to be considered a long shot for AZ at this point. AZ will be better than expected next year (assuming no one transfers), but Oregon is going to be very good and Williams has a chance to play for the projected Pac 12 winner, while playing at AZ has less certainty, especially long term.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:58 am

midnightx wrote:Little torched the McDonald's game tonight. If he was truly an Arizona lean, that is a very disappointing recruiting loss.

He was a couple of weeks away from a public commitment to Arizona.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:59 am

midnightx wrote:
NYCat wrote:
Some good news I guess
Williams has to be considered a long shot for AZ at this point. AZ will be better than expected next year (assuming no one transfers), but Oregon is going to be very good and Williams has a chance to play for the projected Pac 12 winner, while playing at AZ has less certainty, especially long term.

He's not a long shot. It's genuinely a battle between Arizona and Oregon and neither side has the edge yet.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:39 am

midnightx wrote:
NYCat wrote:
Some good news I guess
Williams has to be considered a long shot for AZ at this point. AZ will be better than expected next year (assuming no one transfers), but Oregon is going to be very good and Williams has a chance to play for the projected Pac 12 winner, while playing at AZ has less certainty, especially long term.

For Williams, he'll have a bigger role here. Sharing time with Pritchard or Barcello gives him much more PT here. For a kid, that has to be as motivational as a smaller role in team success. Especially if BW thinks he's good enough to lift a team.

Also, Oregon is more talented next year, but with the Bol's of the world comes concerns they're one and done. Of our core, we may have a better shot at keeping intact into what would be BW's soph year.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:54 am

Even staying away from Quinerly doesn’t do anything for us. Cherry was likely linked, and Little was specifically linked.

Maybe without direct tie to payouts to Book things change with Bol Bol, but I still think the ESPN slander happens and everything falls apart. There’s nothing to suggest it wouldn’t. That wasn’t random. It was coach/player, thus university specific.

Regroup, recruit hard-playing, coachable talents, coach them up like Miller did with so many previous like them, and build a foundation like 2009 did for 2010-11.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:23 am

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:24 am

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... ler-roster" target="_blank

If Luther does decide to leave, he would likely be considered a graduate transfer, but he would need to be granted a hardship waiver to receive a fifth year of eligibility, which is expected to happen.

Luther sat out all but 10 games of his senior year because of a foot injury.

When he was healthy, he averaged 32.5 minutes per game and led the Panthers in scoring (12.7 PPG) and rebounding (10.1 RPG), and was one of just four players in the ACC to average a double-double.

Hrmmm. . .

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:27 am

Pitt fans seem to not care and say he's injury prone. Wouldn't be a bad depth piece.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:28 am

I'm sure Capel will do his best to get the kid to come back, but he'd be a great compliment to Jeter/Lee with his inside/outside game.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:38 am

NYCat wrote:Pitt fans seem to not care and say he's injury prone. Wouldn't be a bad depth piece.

They went 0-18 in conference play without him. Pitt fans probably should care

Oh, and could you please fucking change your Avatar? I fucking hate that goddamn face

Junior · Post by **Junior** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:43 am

dcZONAfan wrote:
NYCat wrote:Pitt fans seem to not care and say he's injury prone. Wouldn't be a bad depth piece.

They went 0-18 in conference play without him. Pitt fans probably should care

Oh, and could you please fucking change your Avatar? I fucking hate that goddamn face

What do you have against Elmo?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:47 am

dcZONAfan wrote: Oh, and could you please fucking change your Avatar? I fucking hate that goddamn face

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:57 am

NYCat wrote:Pitt fans seem to not care and say he's injury prone. Wouldn't be a bad depth piece.

We need a 3rd post badly. He would fill that need.

Right now, Pitt is a ground up rebuilding project. I'd think it might make sense for Luther and Pitt to both move on. I doubt there's any expectation for Capel to win next year.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:03 am

Honestly he'd start day 1 at the 4 for us.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:06 pm

Off topic but interesting

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:02 pm

The NBA is going to set up a legitimate developmental league sooner rather than later where these kids can get paid and start developing for the league. The NCAA landscape is going to be very different sooner rather than later because a lot of these one-and-dones will have more attractive options.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:07 pm

midnightx wrote:The NBA is going to set up a legitimate developmental league sooner rather than later where these kids can get paid and start developing for the league. The NCAA landscape is going to be very different sooner rather than later because a lot of these one-and-dones will have more attractive options.

Indeed, Adam Silver's All Star game press conference discussed this in detail

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/17/1702 ... conflicted" target="_blank

The NBA wants to start developing these kids earlier and helping to build their brands. Getting more high quality players in the G League will only help that league succeed.

Adam is by far the best Commissioner around right now (Not even really close either). Very progressive and forward thinking in terms of growing his game and understanding today's consumer.

College game 5 years from now could look very very different. I for one am a Fan of the changes. Absolutely hate the One and Done rule and think Kids should do what they want at 18 years old. Hate how no team ever builds off each other and every season is now all about the tournament without much narrative until it starts.

Tough to argue with this either

“The G League will have the most to offer, considering that is the development league for the NBA,” he continued. “I will get more out of that than going overseas. The G League is the closest thing to the NBA. I see most guys now are spending time in the G League even after they went to school and the draft, so this gives me the chance to accelerate the process. There have been a lot of successful guys who have been brought up in the G League, and I’m confident that I will be one of them.

“I’m self-motivated because I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. This is how I want to make a living. This is how I want to provide for my family, and provide for my love of basketball. I’m not playing any games with this. I’m attacking this straight forward. I’m not maneuvering around this, take any side steps. I’m taking this head on. This is the decision that I made, and I know it will work. I know what I’m capable of doing, and I’m going to do just that.”

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:03 pm

There needs to be better pay. Once the "G League" or another developmental league establishes higher value contracts, more kids will choose it. If a kid is looking at a $20,000 contract, if he is a one-and-done, the current system pays him more under the table, plus he gets significantly more exposure through televised NCAA games. Clearly the developmental and scouting system is in place in the "G League," but the NCAA is presently a viable option. If NBA can revise the developmental league system and guarantee at least six figure contracts, a lot of these kids are going to go that route. It will be the best for everyone. The one-and-done talents will go straight to the league (seriously, Ayton and Bagley should have been NBA bound right away), and 3-4 year players will go to the NCAA, which ultimately will create a better product on the floor and possibly water down the corruption.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:26 pm

midnightx wrote:There needs to be better pay. Once the "G League" or another developmental league establishes higher value contracts, more kids will choose it. If a kid is looking at a $20,000 contract, if he is a one-and-done, the current system pays him more under the table, plus he gets significantly more exposure through televised NCAA games. Clearly the developmental and scouting system is in place in the "G League," but the NCAA is presently a viable option. If NBA can revise the developmental league system and guarantee at least six figure contracts, a lot of these kids are going to go that route. It will be the best for everyone. The one-and-done talents will go straight to the league (seriously, Ayton and Bagley should have been NBA bound right away), and 3-4 year players will go to the NCAA, which ultimately will create a better product on the floor and possibly water down the corruption.

It's been in the process of happening. First step was getting each team an affiliate. There are only a handful left without one. ESPN 3 deal kicked in, although I haven't looked into the numbers, Gatorade partnership is working well, and the salaries will be increased within the next few seasons.

It's all in the works.

prh · Post by **prh** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:15 pm

One problem maybe overlooked is the possibility of nba getting hurt by the next tv deal. We’ve already seen free agent money start drying up, and it’s gonna get worse when ESPN isn’t pouring as much money in.

SteveKerrsStroke · Post by **SteveKerrsStroke** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:33 pm

Spitballing here.. #OffSeason

Would it be feasible for the G-League to offer one/two year slotted salaries at a much higher level for kids coming out of high-school?

I imagine it would cause some friction with two-way players and other vets in the G-league, but it seems like at least one way to entice kids to choose the development option and (might?) raise the exposure and attendance of the league if some of these guys are playing.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:44 pm

prh wrote:One problem maybe overlooked is the possibility of nba getting hurt by the next tv deal. We’ve already seen free agent money start drying up, and it’s gonna get worse when ESPN isn’t pouring as much money in.

Why would they get less TV money?

NBA ratings are up

There current TV deal goes through 2025 to so good amount of time on it

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm

SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Spitballing here.. #OffSeason

Would it be feasible for the G-League to offer one/two year slotted salaries at a much higher level for kids coming out of high-school?

I imagine it would cause some friction with two-way players and other vets in the G-league, but it seems like at least one way to entice kids to choose the development option and (might?) raise the exposure and attendance of the league if some of these guys are playing.

Short and long answers are both Yes, they will because people will watch the G league if guys like Deandre Ayton are in it. And it’s not like they would have to pay a ton. $200k maybe.

Problem now is players in it mostly have no shot at the league or no shot to be a star in it. If people felt they could watch the next stars they would be more interested. I know I would.

In re UofA · Post by **In re UofA** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:21 pm

Outside endorsements and agents supplementing salary make the g-league a viable option. No class (staying out of upstate NY) makes it attractive. Once the NBA puts more investment in facilities and quality of life aspects there will be no reason for four and five star recruits to go to college. There will come a time that players will laugh at the thought of playing for free.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:54 pm

Newportcat wrote:
SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Spitballing here.. #OffSeason

Would it be feasible for the G-League to offer one/two year slotted salaries at a much higher level for kids coming out of high-school?

I imagine it would cause some friction with two-way players and other vets in the G-league, but it seems like at least one way to entice kids to choose the development option and (might?) raise the exposure and attendance of the league if some of these guys are playing.
Short and long answers are both Yes, they will because people will watch the G league if guys like Deandre Ayton are in it. And it’s not like they would have to pay a ton. $200k maybe.

Problem now is players in it mostly have no shot at the league or no shot to be a star in it. If people felt they could watch the next stars they would be more interested. I know I would.

G-League will be upping their salary, but more so to help keep players in their domestic league rather than signing overseas.

Also, for reference, there have been 30+ call ups in each of the last six seasons. A call up means a guy not assigned (via rights) from the NBA to the G-League. This season, there were 46 different players called up. The opportunity is there.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:21 am

midnightx wrote:The NBA is going to set up a legitimate developmental league sooner rather than later where these kids can get paid and start developing for the league. The NCAA landscape is going to be very different sooner rather than later because a lot of these one-and-dones will have more attractive options.

Any decent player (like fringe NBA rookies) always wreck the G/D-League when they go. It's not that great. It would have to come a long way to compete with CBB. And the money is probably about the same as they would get in college.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:27 am

Newportcat wrote:
SteveKerrsStroke wrote:
Short and long answers are both Yes, they will because people will watch the G league if guys like Deandre Ayton are in it. And it’s not like they would have to pay a ton. $200k maybe.

Problem now is players in it mostly have no shot at the league or no shot to be a star in it. If people felt they could watch the next stars they would be more interested. I know I would.

I would not watch it unless the majority of NBA draft prospects are in it. The competition/coaching levels have a long way to go for it to be interesting.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:53 am

TucsonClip wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Spitballing here.. #OffSeason

Would it be feasible for the G-League to offer one/two year slotted salaries at a much higher level for kids coming out of high-school?

I imagine it would cause some friction with two-way players and other vets in the G-league, but it seems like at least one way to entice kids to choose the development option and (might?) raise the exposure and attendance of the league if some of these guys are playing.
Short and long answers are both Yes, they will because people will watch the G league if guys like Deandre Ayton are in it. And it’s not like they would have to pay a ton. $200k maybe.

Problem now is players in it mostly have no shot at the league or no shot to be a star in it. If people felt they could watch the next stars they would be more interested. I know I would.
G-League will be upping their salary, but more so to help keep players in their domestic league rather than signing overseas.

Also, for reference, there have been 30+ call ups in each of the last six seasons. A call up means a guy not assigned (via rights) from the NBA to the G-League. This season, there were 46 different players called up. The opportunity is there.

Yes. Too many people remember what the D League was. It's a viable farm system nowadays. It's not producing stars, but it has a good amount of NBA caliber talent.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:56 am

It's a minor league and it'll never gain notoriety. It is a viable farm system as Spiff said however.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:16 am

ChooChooCat wrote:It's a minor league and it'll never gain notoriety. It is a viable farm system as Spiff said however.

That's really all it needs to be. Minor league baseball has existed for a while and it's clearly lower quality. It can compete with college baseball, though, and it serves the developmental purpose.

The NBA had basically had no developmental aspect or had outsourced it to overseas teams for a long time. That's changing.

Side note: it's sad Darius Bazely will never experience the beauty of playing in a Boeheim zone though...

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:01 am

I think there is a way to have kids go straight to the G league but also enhance college basketball if done right much like College Baseball. G League can be a fun way to see future stars for one year and be a good minor league system while college basketball can go back to building a better narrative for fans by having teams build off each other will I think help to increase attendance and TV ratings during the regular season which have both been trending down for years. Not that the NCAA really cares about that since the tourney makes so much money.

The NBA can help improve college basketball which shows how worthless the NCAA is because they can’t do it themselves

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:32 am

[spoiler=][/spoiler]

Newportcat wrote:I think there is a way to have kids go straight to the G league but also enhance college basketball if done right much like College Baseball. G League can be a fun way to see future stars for one year and be a good minor league system while college basketball can go back to building a better narrative for fans by having teams build off each other will I think help to increase attendance and TV ratings during the regular season which have both been trending down for years. Not that the NCAA really cares about that since the tourney makes so much money.

The NBA can help improve college basketball which shows how worthless the NCAA is because they can’t do it themselves

There's only like 4-5 teams that don't 'build off each other'.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:53 am

SunnyAZ wrote:[spoiler=][/spoiler]
Newportcat wrote:I think there is a way to have kids go straight to the G league but also enhance college basketball if done right much like College Baseball. G League can be a fun way to see future stars for one year and be a good minor league system while college basketball can go back to building a better narrative for fans by having teams build off each other will I think help to increase attendance and TV ratings during the regular season which have both been trending down for years. Not that the NCAA really cares about that since the tourney makes so much money.

The NBA can help improve college basketball which shows how worthless the NCAA is because they can’t do it themselves
There's only like 4-5 teams that don't 'build off each other'.

With the way regular transfers and grad transfer work nowadays, its way more then 4-5 teams. 137 guys were early entrants to the NBA draft last year. 884 players transferred from D1 schools. Now some of them came back from declaring for the draft (I think roughly 30) with the new rules but vast majority left. So almost 1,000 D1 players changed or left teams last year not including new players coming in.

Transfers is another issue on to itself but there is a massive narrative problem in college basketball as the coaches are the stars and the players are not really known until the tournament happens. Teams (Especially the great ones) then all seemingly change over every year. So vast majority of fans only care about the Tournament and view college basketball as a 3 week a year sport. It did not used to be this way and would love for it to go back to the way I remember it when I hated UCLA and players like Jason Kapono, etc. I hated TJ Leaf I guess too but guy was at UCLA for like a day.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Getting caught up on this all-important thread.

Still sorta seems like BW is the key to all of this. We haven't had an elite PG since TJ, and if BW chooses AZ, it sends a loud message to everyone that the program remains a safe and indeed desirable choice. If he goes to Oregon, it just deepens the narrative that AZ is damaged.

Doutrive, Akinjo, and Brown are all good players and could all help us next year, obviously. But I think it all starts with BW. The lesson of '17 and '18 is that: mediocre PG = weak NCAA tourney performance

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Getting caught up on this all-important thread.

Still sorta seems like BW is the key to all of this. We haven't had an elite PG since TJ, and if BW chooses AZ, it sends a loud message to everyone that the program remains a safe and indeed desirable choice. If he goes to Oregon, it just deepens the narrative that AZ is damaged.

Doutrive, Akinjo, and Brown are all good players and could all help us next year, obviously. But I think it all starts with BW. The lesson of '17 and '18 is that: mediocre PG = weak NCAA tourney performance

Agreed. A BW commit would be very important.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:17 pm

midnightx wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Getting caught up on this all-important thread.

Still sorta seems like BW is the key to all of this. We haven't had an elite PG since TJ, and if BW chooses AZ, it sends a loud message to everyone that the program remains a safe and indeed desirable choice. If he goes to Oregon, it just deepens the narrative that AZ is damaged.

Doutrive, Akinjo, and Brown are all good players and could all help us next year, obviously. But I think it all starts with BW. The lesson of '17 and '18 is that: mediocre PG = weak NCAA tourney performance
Agreed. A BW commit would be very important.

I'm holding out hope that we really were his top choice, and that that hasn't changed. He and his family seemed to already be planning to be in Tucson, watching games at McKale. Sometimes when a young guy falls in love with a program and coach, that ends up being the decisive factor. So even while he's being courted by Oregon, Zaga, and whoever else, he may still have AZ in the back of his mind. Hopefully.

He can be huge for AZ. I hope he decides to be a Wildcat. Bear down, BW!

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:51 pm

Looks more like a combo guard

az91 · Post by **az91** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:48 am

Brandon Williams is on an unofficial visit to ASU. Can 2018 recruiting get any more bleak?

ezinaz · Post by **ezinaz** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:50 pm

az91 wrote:Brandon Williams is on an unofficial visit to ASU. Can 2018 recruiting get any more bleak?

The flippening...

In re UofA · Post by **In re UofA** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:17 pm

I imagine the asu pitch is James Harden talk for 17 hours straight, and freshmen jumping out from curtains in speedos.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:23 pm

In re UofA wrote:I imagine the asu pitch is James Harden talk for 17 hours straight, and freshmen jumping out from curtains in speedos.

We were ranked #3 in the nation last year! We made the tournament! We lost most of the guys whp got us there, so we need replacements stat! You're a replacement who can continue the "tradition."

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:15 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
In re UofA wrote:I imagine the asu pitch is James Harden talk for 17 hours straight, and freshmen jumping out from curtains in speedos.
We were ranked #3 in the nation last year! We made the tournament! We lost most of the guys whp got us there, so we need replacements stat! You're a replacement who can continue the "tradition."

And Sean Miller may not be at AZ long term, they are facing possible NCAA sanctions, they have no recruiting class, and you will have less playing time at OR. So come to this second-rate program for stability and playing time, ignoring all of its deficiencies. That is the anti-recruiting pitch against AZ right now, hopefully Miller has an adequate answer.

In re UofA · Post by **In re UofA** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:04 pm

All that matters for Brandon Williams is next year. “Long term” doesn’t resonate with top talent. Playing time, style of play, exposure, coaching staff personality and NBA prep is what matters. As of now, the only unknown is the Arizona staff.

I expect to pull talent yet this cycle and continue to run the pac12.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:23 pm

BW has three good options: AZ, Oregon, and Gonzaga. He’s going to one of those schools.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:26 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:BW has three good options: AZ, Oregon, and Gonzaga. He’s going to one of those schools.

I'm reading Kentucky is interested as well.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:44 pm

azgreg wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:BW has three good options: AZ, Oregon, and Gonzaga. He’s going to one of those schools.
I'm reading Kentucky is interested as well.

They're interested in any decent player with a pulse.

Think BW's staying on the west coast.

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