let's talk '18

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:05 pm

Newportcat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Bosy Billups wrote:"Newsletter" "Tin Foil" "Conspiracy Theory"

Wow, you guys are brain to the washed with prospects of any recovery dim.

Congrats on wasting a brain, you serve your puppet masters just as planned.
If I can see the chemtrails is it already too late? Or do I have time to get to the bunker?
I have been called many things but never been called “Brain to the washed”

I am going to use that line now, hope bosy didn’t copyright it. Actually no way he would copyright it as he doesn’t trust the government

If it was me I'd copyright it just to prove the point that copyrights are a tool of the bourgeoisie to keep the prols subservient to their lords!!

I'd buy shares in aluminum but as soon as they were worth anything the international bankers would engineer an economic collapse that would render them worthless and steal my retirement by increasing the monetary supply and keeping me alive and dependent on an ever more intrusive health care cartel until I have to yield all my worldly possessions to have the gov't tell me where to go to live our the last 6 months of my life!!!

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:55 pm

Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:21 pm

Bosy Billups wrote:"Newsletter" "Tin Foil" "Conspiracy Theory"

Wow, you guys are brain to the washed with prospects of any recovery dim.

Congrats on wasting a brain, you serve your puppet masters just as planned.

Can you remind me of the last time you were right on one of your predictions.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:30 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.

I mean, unless you're calling Miller's talent evaluation into question, you sorta have to assume our coaches are out there getting the best players they can. If Kisunas is a target, I'm quite sure there isn't a better one at the moment.

Coleman a poor man's PJC? Ouch.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:39 pm

azgreg wrote:
Bosy Billups wrote:"Newsletter" "Tin Foil" "Conspiracy Theory"

Wow, you guys are brain to the washed with prospects of any recovery dim.

Congrats on wasting a brain, you serve your puppet masters just as planned.
Can you remind me of the last time you were right on one of your predictions.

Miller to Pitt - Book it!

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:09 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.

Name one Jesse Perry-type JUCO center.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:34 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.
Name one Jesse Perry-type JUCO center.

Andres Ibarguen

http://tvccsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017- ... arguenyn8v" target="_blank

Kisunas won't see the floor next season.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:42 pm

I realize I may be in the minority here but I can live with Barcello as the PG. He seems like a doubt me at your own peril kind of kid and I think he has some talent. Not likely to be a big time creator but I think he could take care of the ball and initiate the offense.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:27 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.
Name one Jesse Perry-type JUCO center.
Andres Ibarguen

http://tvccsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017- ... arguenyn8v" target="_blank

Kisunas won't see the floor next season.

I guess the question is would he qualify academically? It's harder for JUCO guys to qualify to transfer to U of A than any HS kid.

I agree that Kisunas won't see the floor. I also doubt your guy would either. Jeter, Luther, Lee, Akot seems like the rotation to me.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:05 pm

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:09 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Zach Johnson just committed to Miami. So it's Coleman or Williams or bust.

Oh no sad

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:48 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.
Name one Jesse Perry-type JUCO center.
Andres Ibarguen

http://tvccsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017- ... arguenyn8v" target="_blank

Kisunas won't see the floor next season.
I guess the question is would he qualify academically? It's harder for JUCO guys to qualify to transfer to U of A than any HS kid.

I agree that Kisunas won't see the floor. I also doubt your guy would either. Jeter, Luther, Lee, Akot seems like the rotation to me.

Why wouldn't he see the floor? Who is going to rebound in that rotation? Aren't you concerned about Jeter and Luther's injury history? Don't we have four open scholarships?

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:53 am

prh wrote:Why are we comparing PJC and Coleman using stats? Stats were not the problem at the end of the day (/year).

What is his demeanor? Is he a leader? Can he keep a positive mindset when things get tough? Can he bring some intensity?

If Parker could have done those, we'd still be talking about this year's tourney results right now.

Umm, no we wouldn't. Parker could have done all those things and we probably still wouldn't have got past Kentucky

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:33 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Zach Johnson just committed to Miami. So it's Coleman or Williams or bust.

How about both? B will probably recommits to us.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:57 am

TatetheGreat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote: Name one Jesse Perry-type JUCO center.
Andres Ibarguen

http://tvccsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017- ... arguenyn8v" target="_blank

Kisunas won't see the floor next season.
I guess the question is would he qualify academically? It's harder for JUCO guys to qualify to transfer to U of A than any HS kid.

I agree that Kisunas won't see the floor. I also doubt your guy would either. Jeter, Luther, Lee, Akot seems like the rotation to me.
Why wouldn't he see the floor? Who is going to rebound in that rotation? Aren't you concerned about Jeter and Luther's injury history? Don't we have four open scholarships?

Kisunas doesn't do much for me. He isn't really athletic, long or skilled. He's adequate in a lot of areas. I'd be shocked if he contributed as a freshman. He's a rotation guy max as an upperclassman.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:20 am

TatetheGreat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:Coleman is definitely a poor man's PJC. We should have pursued Andres Feliz. And I'd prefer a Jesse Perry-type JUCO center instead of Kisunas. I don't think he's worth developing.
Name one Jesse Perry-type JUCO center.
Andres Ibarguen

http://tvccsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017- ... arguenyn8v" target="_blank

Kisunas won't see the floor next season.
I guess the question is would he qualify academically? It's harder for JUCO guys to qualify to transfer to U of A than any HS kid.

I agree that Kisunas won't see the floor. I also doubt your guy would either. Jeter, Luther, Lee, Akot seems like the rotation to me.
Why wouldn't he see the floor? Who is going to rebound in that rotation? Aren't you concerned about Jeter and Luther's injury history? Don't we have four open scholarships?

The 4 guys I just named would rebound. Look if we're concerned with injuries before they happen then we're screwed enough already as is. Those 4 guys are better than your guy and I feel pretty damn confident in saying that. We do have 4 scholarships remaining, but that doesn't mean any other post we recruit is going to play or get minutes above what we already have on our roster and adding bodies to add bodies isn't a great strategy, although I concede that's obviously what's going on with Kisunas.

The whole point is moot anyways, Miller wants Kisunas, and he's probably going to get him for better or for worse. After landing him there's one position of need remaining. Fill that hole and hold the remaining two scholarships for 2019 or a traditional transfer if we can land a good one.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:09 am

There's a certain element of damned if you do, damned if you don't with Miller's recruiting.

People get mad when we lose to teams with 4 year guys when we have younger kids with superior talent. Then, we recruit guys like Kisunas, Barcello, Lee, etc, who need developmental time to become the 4 year players we covet and everyone gets pissy about how they aren't developing fast enough.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:00 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:There's a certain element of damned if you do, damned if you don't with Miller's recruiting.

People get mad when we lose to teams with 4 year guys when we have younger kids with superior talent. Then, we recruit guys like Kisunas, Barcello, Lee, etc, who need developmental time to become the 4 year players we covet and everyone gets pissy about how they aren't developing fast enough.

The key is to get 1 and done players who stay for 4 years.

Easy. Problem solved.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:08 am

Not a fan of any of the transfers, they all suck tbh. All of my meh's. I would just let the 4 sophomores play all the minutes they can and learn on the job and make mistakes so they can develop, and yes let Barcello be the PG. It's not worth sacrificing their development (and playing time) and stunt their growth for the chance to win, what 18-22 wins in the hopes that you maybe have an outside chance of making the NCAA tournament.

Anyway, not exactly a glowing review for Luther, the disparity between his production low vs high level competition is troubling. He's not going to be very good vs high major competition and will likely get injured.

I guess as long as he doesn't get admitted into Stanford we might have slightly higher chance than ZERO.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:30 am

Luther went 13 and 12 versus West Virginia & 10 and 8 vs Okie State. He had a meh game against Penn State. I could give two shits less what he did years prior. Calm down NYCat. Is he going to be all world? Of course not. Is he going to be serviceable? Absolutely.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:47 am

NYCat, I don't get the interest in pushing time to Barcello. He can always earn it, but I haven't seen anything that justifies handing him the keys.

I also don't share the dismal outlook of an unlikely NCAA tourney. Jeter, Lee, Akot and Randolph were all pretty well regarded talents. Jeter and Akot were 5 stars and Jeter made the McD's AA game. Smith and Luther are experienced guys who've started and contributed.

The NCAA tournament isn't exactly a super exclusive club. There are plenty of 8-9 seeds with less talent than our roster has. Intentionally treating next year like a lost cause to further the development of a guy who reasonably might never start here...?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:48 am

Can't believe the Jordan Brown saga has yet to wrap up. Maybe he and BW are competing for "last man on the board."

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:50 am

Guys like Luther are totally fine to me. We need bodies for next year and might as well get someone like Luther who doesn't look bad and only takes up a scholarship for one year. I never hated a guy like tollefson either because while he was not great he does not really hurt you long term.

When it comes to Kisunas, I will admit I will be very disappointed in his commitment when it comes. I think Sean Miller has said it before, but Arizona should never recruit guys who will never be starters. When you look at the 4 stars we get, someone like Dusan was 7'0 with good offensive skills. Pitts was a great shooter in high school. Lee is a great athlete. Doutrive and Omar both look like great athletes too. Chance was a great athlete, Kadeem great athlete, etc. Now sometimes great athletes do nothing which is fine and normal.

I just hate taking 4 year players who don't start from a good athletic base or offer something else like unreal shooter or are really tall. A non-athletic 6'8 guy in today's game seems like a wasted scholarship. Would rather we hold the scholarship or give it to a grad transfer.

Maybe he is more athletic then I am giving him credit for but his videos do not show it.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:26 am

I disagree with the whole line of thought that you should only recruit guys who will be starters. You should never recruit wastes of spaces, but you need guys who serve roles. Believe me Arizona didn't recruit Elliott Pitts thinking he was a future starter. They recruited him to play a Brendon Lavender role. I'm not arguing for Kisunas btw, although maybe there's something there the rest of us just aren't seeing, but either way you recruit 4 year guys to be 4 year guys and play needed roles for you when the time comes.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:45 am

ChooChooCat wrote:I disagree with the whole line of thought that you should only recruit guys who will never be starters. You should never recruit wastes of spaces, but you need guys who serve roles. Believe me Arizona didn't recruit Elliott Pitts thinking he was a future starter. They recruited him to play a Brendon Lavender role. I'm not arguing for Kisunas btw, although maybe there's something there the rest of us just aren't seeing, but either way you recruit 4 year guys to be 4 year guys and play needed roles for you when the time comes.

I agree with this take, particularly if you feel like the player is a hard worker who will be an intangible asset. You can do way worse than a guy who works hard for 4 years, sets a tone in practice and gives you 15 solid minutes per game in a reserve role as an upperclassman.

If 2017-18 should have taught us anything, it's that talent doesn't win everything. Having guys who set a tone for your program in limited roles can be a huge boost for the overall cohesiveness of things.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:56 am

Who knows how kids develope? 5 star Tarc stays 4 years. 3 star DWill becomes a #2 pick. Loyola goes to a FF. South Carolina does too. Just get kids that want to be coached.

So looking forward to next year.....but we need a PG

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:59 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I'll take Johnson over Coleman ever day of the week and twice on Sunday.
He's not a point guard.
Then he should fit in just fine.
Ain't that the truth. I suppose we can run a Luke Walton situation where Akot runs the offense and Johnson plays the Gardner role where he gets some assists, but his main role is to score.

I like your thought on that, Choo, if we don't succeed with Williams. Dude Akot has a nice tight handle for a bigger guy, good court vision, decent passing, sweet D, scoring and finishing skill. The leadership potential we don't know yet.

Your idea has me reflecting on Walton's days as a fine point forward.

Thanks for your creative thinking, Choo.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:01 pm

EOCT wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I'll take Johnson over Coleman ever day of the week and twice on Sunday.
He's not a point guard.
Then he should fit in just fine.
Ain't that the truth. I suppose we can run a Luke Walton situation where Akot runs the offense and Johnson plays the Gardner role where he gets some assists, but his main role is to score.
I like your thought on that, Choo, if we don't succeed with Williams. Dude Akot has a nice tight handle for a bigger guy, good court vision, decent passing, sweet D, scoring and finishing skill. The leadership potential we don't know yet.

Your idea has me reflecting on Walton's days as a fine point forward.

Thanks for your creative thinking, Choo.

Yeah, unfortunately, no Johnson for us.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:39 pm

How is Gonzaga's backcourt looking next year? Oregon seems stacked at guard, not sure why Williams would want to try to carve out time there. Yes, it is a good program and they will have a lot of talent next year, but for his own goals, not sure if Oregon makes sense. With Arizona, Williams starts from day one, it is his team. That could be hard to pass up, especially if it was truly his dream program.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:30 pm

Zaga has Josh Perkins at the 1 and Zach Norvell at the 2/3. They got a couple other capable 3 men too. I'm sure their sell is to play William's and Perkins along side each other.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:06 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:Zaga has Josh Perkins at the 1 and Zach Norvell at the 2/3. They got a couple other capable 3 men too. I'm sure their sell is to play William's and Perkins along side each other.

Zags are loaded. Just like Oregon. I mean, if BW is looking for a team who can get to the FF next season, not sure he's coming to AZ.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:49 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Zaga has Josh Perkins at the 1 and Zach Norvell at the 2/3. They got a couple other capable 3 men too. I'm sure their sell is to play William's and Perkins along side each other.
Zags are loaded. Just like Oregon. I mean, if BW is looking for a team who can get to the FF next season, not sure he's coming to AZ.

My counter is that if he wants to start every year and have a chance to lead a deep run in 2019, we are a good option.

Right now, I know Oregon and Zaga are selling him on sharing duties with the guys they have, but if that doesn't work out, Altman or Few are going to make a decision to win. That may be to sit BW. At Arizona, he isn't sitting.

You're right, though. Our 2018 prospects are not at an Oregon/Zaga level.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:18 pm

Hey, I saw mr. Lee practicing free throws the other day.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:28 pm

Alieberman wrote: The key is to get 1 and done players who stay for 4 years.

...... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand CUT!

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:02 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Zaga has Josh Perkins at the 1 and Zach Norvell at the 2/3. They got a couple other capable 3 men too. I'm sure their sell is to play William's and Perkins along side each other.
Zags are loaded. Just like Oregon. I mean, if BW is looking for a team who can get to the FF next season, not sure he's coming to AZ.
My counter is that if he wants to start every year and have a chance to lead a deep run in 2019, we are a good option.

Right now, I know Oregon and Zaga are selling him on sharing duties with the guys they have, but if that doesn't work out, Altman or Few are going to make a decision to win. That may be to sit BW. At Arizona, he isn't sitting.

You're right, though. Our 2018 prospects are not at an Oregon/Zaga level.

That is true, but AZ does have two 5 stars and two 4 stars on its roster, and maybe they will come into the season more seasoned and developed.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:46 pm

I’ll recap my thoughts on the BWill’s options.

His father listed two criteria: an opportunity to have the ball in his hands and a sense of comfort with the staff. That’s collectively “best fit.” They project Williams as a two year player.

Oregon has a PG, two year starter in Payton Pritchard, a rising junior, all conference player and former four star recruit. Last year he was exceptional with a >2 A:TO and 40% 3pt shooting. At SG they have a rising sophomore four star and an incoming freshman four star combo guard ranked close to Williams.

Gonzaga has a PG, two year starter in Josh Perkins, a rising senior, all conference player and former four star recruit. Last year he was exceptional with a >2 A:TO and 40% 3pt shooting. At SG they have a hole - Norvell is very good and could play it but he could also play SF and he’d be best there given the other personnel on their team next year, especially if they get a great second guard.

Arizona we know has no certain PG with no returning starter nor a returning player who got many backup PG minutes. We’re flush at SG with easily four players that will fight for off guard minutes.

At Oregon, Williams is unlikely to take the PG spot this year or next. There are a couple of strong off guard candidate with term as well. He has no sure path to being a starting PG and high hurdles to netting a starting spot at all.

At Gonzaga, Williams would again be unlikely to start at PG as a freshman. He’d almost certainly take the SG spot from day one though. Additionally he’d very likely get the starting PG role in his second year as Perkins would have graduated.

At Arizona he’d be the PG from day one until the day he’s done.

Oregon strikes me as the worst fit. Gonzaga and Arizona are both great options as he’d assuredly get the ball in his hands by his second year. He should choose one of the two, if he’s being objective.

BWill’s dad mentioned previously that he was looking to see how Arizona would fill out the roster. Miller expressed that he’d search the transfer market and gun for Doutrive. Now that those pieces are in place... I wonder if the “comfort” portion is back in place.

BWill has called Arizona a dream school that he wanted to play at since he was a kid. He’s described it as an overwhelming love of his. His father also said he 100% believes that Miller is not guilty of the accusations, having talked to Miller.

Our hope has to be that the comfort has returned, supporting his decision to go to the team with the best opportunity for Williams to be the primary ball handler. I wouldn’t fault him for choosing the Zags (though he’d get little national exposure and play against relatively poor opponents). If he chose Oregon it would be out of an abundance of confidence and a desire to play for a highly competitive team.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:58 pm

Well, YDF, now you have me believing again

Come on, BW!

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:16 am

BWill is coming to AZ. I have felt this way for a couple weeks. We just have to wait till about the 30th of the month to find out.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:26 am

ChooChooCat wrote:I disagree with the whole line of thought that you should only recruit guys who will be starters. You should never recruit wastes of spaces, but you need guys who serve roles. Believe me Arizona didn't recruit Elliott Pitts thinking he was a future starter. They recruited him to play a Brendon Lavender role. I'm not arguing for Kisunas btw, although maybe there's something there the rest of us just aren't seeing, but either way you recruit 4 year guys to be 4 year guys and play needed roles for you when the time comes.

I do agree with your thoughts in that you do not need to recruit people who are always going to be starters, just remember Sean Miller saying that before. But you are right in that sometimes its good to recruit people with specialized skill sets who you know probably will never be a 30min a game starter.

That being said, I hate doing that with a player I consider to have no specialized skill set or has athletic limitations especially when they are a 4 year player who will take up a scholarship for 4 years.

Look at Keanu Pinder. We recruited him for a role and he played it ok. He was athletic so had that to work with and most importantly was a JUCO recruit so only took up a scholarship for 2 years. Provided a body in practice and gave us some minutes off the bench. Was he ever going to be a star, No, but he did start from an athletic base and only took up a scholarship for 2 years.

Look at Kyle Fogg. A nothing recruit out of high school but was clear he had athletic ability. Now he worked his absolute tail off the maximize his abilities over his 4 years and respect him completely to this day for that. He has maximized his god given gifts completely. But he still started with an athletic base without any glaring limitations.

I get recruiting guys to stay longer and agree with the approach. But to me, you have to start with someone who does not have athletic limitations or does have a specialized skill set. PJC was athletically/physically limited from the time he stepped on campus and unfortunately we all saw how that worked out.

But yes, agree and take back my comment on only recruiting people who can be eventual starters.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:33 am

YoDeFoe wrote:I’ll recap my thoughts on the BWill’s options.

His father listed two criteria: an opportunity to have the ball in his hands and a sense of comfort with the staff. That’s collectively “best fit.” They project Williams as a two year player.

Oregon has a PG, two year starter in Payton Pritchard, a rising junior, all conference player and former four star recruit. Last year he was exceptional with a >2 A:TO and 40% 3pt shooting. At SG they have a rising sophomore four star and an incoming freshman four star combo guard ranked close to Williams.

Gonzaga has a PG, two year starter in Josh Perkins, a rising senior, all conference player and former four star recruit. Last year he was exceptional with a >2 A:TO and 40% 3pt shooting. At SG they have a hole - Norvell is very good and could play it but he could also play SF and he’d be best there given the other personnel on their team next year, especially if they get a great second guard.

Arizona we know has no certain PG with no returning starter nor a returning player who got many backup PG minutes. We’re flush at SG with easily four players that will fight for off guard minutes.

At Oregon, Williams is unlikely to take the PG spot this year or next. There are a couple of strong off guard candidate with term as well. He has no sure path to being a starting PG and high hurdles to netting a starting spot at all.

At Gonzaga, Williams would again be unlikely to start at PG as a freshman. He’d almost certainly take the SG spot from day one though. Additionally he’d very likely get the starting PG role in his second year as Perkins would have graduated.

At Arizona he’d be the PG from day one until the day he’s done.

Oregon strikes me as the worst fit. Gonzaga and Arizona are both great options as he’d assuredly get the ball in his hands by his second year. He should choose one of the two, if he’s being objective.

BWill’s dad mentioned previously that he was looking to see how Arizona would fill out the roster. Miller expressed that he’d search the transfer market and gun for Doutrive. Now that those pieces are in place... I wonder if the “comfort” portion is back in place.

BWill has called Arizona a dream school that he wanted to play at since he was a kid. He’s described it as an overwhelming love of his. His father also said he 100% believes that Miller is not guilty of the accusations, having talked to Miller.

Our hope has to be that the comfort has returned, supporting his decision to go to the team with the best opportunity for Williams to be the primary ball handler. I wouldn’t fault him for choosing the Zags (though he’d get little national exposure and play against relatively poor opponents). If he chose Oregon it would be out of an abundance of confidence and a desire to play for a highly competitive team.

I have no insight into his recruiting other then what I read here, but to me, I found it interesting he did not commit to Oregon after his visit.

Now I know some of the very knowledgeable people believe he is going to Oregon as does the crystal ball recruiting analysts as of late but do agree with your logic. The smartest place for him to go playing time wise is no question Arizona outside of us getting too many grad transfers at PG.

I just would like the drama to be over.

Also, I hope BWill realizes, he can be a God at Arizona. Literally a God. A player our fan base will embrace from Day 1. Given everything that has happened, for him to re-commit to us, he will have unrivaled support behind him. Gonzaga and Oregon he will just be another piece of the puzzle.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:15 am

Newportcat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:I disagree with the whole line of thought that you should only recruit guys who will be starters. You should never recruit wastes of spaces, but you need guys who serve roles. Believe me Arizona didn't recruit Elliott Pitts thinking he was a future starter. They recruited him to play a Brendon Lavender role. I'm not arguing for Kisunas btw, although maybe there's something there the rest of us just aren't seeing, but either way you recruit 4 year guys to be 4 year guys and play needed roles for you when the time comes.
I do agree with your thoughts in that you do not need to recruit people who are always going to be starters, just remember Sean Miller saying that before. But you are right in that sometimes its good to recruit people with specialized skill sets who you know probably will never be a 30min a game starter.

That being said, I hate doing that with a player I consider to have no specialized skill set or has athletic limitations especially when they are a 4 year player who will take up a scholarship for 4 years.

Look at Keanu Pinder. We recruited him for a role and he played it ok. He was athletic so had that to work with and most importantly was a JUCO recruit so only took up a scholarship for 2 years. Provided a body in practice and gave us some minutes off the bench. Was he ever going to be a star, No, but he did start from an athletic base and only took up a scholarship for 2 years.

Look at Kyle Fogg. A nothing recruit out of high school but was clear he had athletic ability. Now he worked his absolute tail off the maximize his abilities over his 4 years and respect him completely to this day for that. He has maximized his god given gifts completely. But he still started with an athletic base without any glaring limitations.

I get recruiting guys to stay longer and agree with the approach. But to me, you have to start with someone who does not have athletic limitations or does have a specialized skill set. PJC was athletically/physically limited from the time he stepped on campus and unfortunately we all saw how that worked out.

But yes, agree and take back my comment on only recruiting people who can be eventual starters.

Good post my man and I do agree with a lot of it. I will say for Parker (I see you 97cats) that it's Sean Miller's fault that he ever had to play as integral of a role at Arizona as he did. I'd argue that Parker would've been a quality back up PG on a Final Four team and his ability as a spot up 3 point shooter and his Assist/TO ratio are proof of that. He however never should've started a single game at Arizona outside of course in case of an injury. I'm fine with recruiting a guy like that to play a role.

Now in regards to Kisunas, I'd argue the one position where athleticism matters least on that basketball court in college is at center. He's just gotta be big, he's gotta be tough, and he's gotta play his role. Now I side with you and many here and say ehhhh, but I could stomach it for that very reason. I've seen Gershon or maybe it was Brian Snow, I forget, describe him as between Zeus and Ristic. That's not a bad guy to have on your roster, even if he's athletically meh. Here's a couple of guys who on the scale of athleticism fall under a pile of dog crap: Przemek Karnowski from Gonzaga & Matt Stainbrook at Xavier. Now of course I'm not saying Kisunas will ever live up to those guys billing, but they were both very effective, tough, and hard working guys whom Kisunas has a similar frame to (especially Stainbrook). Let's put it this way would you rather have a guy like Kisunas who could conceivably provide some production to your program at some point in his 4 years or Talbott Denny who ate up a scholarship for 2 years and did absolutely nothing? There's 13 scholarships and we hardly play more than 9 when it boils down to it if ever. I think we could live with a Kisunas as the 13th guy.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:49 am

Great points and would agree with your logic on getting him. Still concerned he is only 6’8 though. But you are right on that 1-2 of these guys on your team isn’t bad

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm

We just offered Mitch lightfoot lite.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:39 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:We just offered Mitch lightfoot lite.

This guy?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:50 pm

84Cat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We just offered Mitch lightfoot lite.
This guy?

He fits two Sean Miller needs:

1. Elite intangibles
2. Must have a Parker on roster

goslingswagg · Post by **goslingswagg** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:59 pm

I’m concerned that this offer is signifying more roster turnover? Not sure why else we would go after a guy like this.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:02 pm

well we still have 4 open scholarships so i wouldn't read to much into it yet.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:13 pm

After watching his reel I dont hate him. He's a great redshirt and put some meat on his bones candidate who could amount into something later. Guess Phelps watched him and really liked him. He has to get rid of the man bun though, that's my sole condition for final approval.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:18 pm

He has to accept our offer first.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:36 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:After watching his reel I dont hate him. He's a great redshirt and put some meat on his bones candidate who could amount into something later. Guess Phelps watched him and really liked him. He has to get rid of the man bun though, that's my sole condition for final approval.

So I watched some highlights and much rather take a guy like this then the Lithuanian

This guy is tall and athletic and looks to be able to shoot. Skinny as hell for sure but redshirt, have him put on Weight and who knows maybe he turns into something. I can see upside, how much it is who knows but their is upside. I see no upside with the Lithuanian

Maybe Miller reads these boards and listened to me...

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