2018-2019 Arizona Basketball

[ByJoveByJingle]

Yeah it’s all a matter of perspective (based on success or lack thereof). I’m old enough to remember (thanks, Bill Walton) when this board would ecstatically respond to the “great weardown” when Miller was a genius for his defensive and disciplined offensive approach that resulted in teams crumbling under the pressure over the course of a game. Now he’s an idiot who is unable to adjust his game plan. I’m not a Miller apologist. Everybody in life can do better. But remember he reached the Elite 8 at Xavier without the top 5 recruiting classes. He is a good coach, and had things broken just a hair differently he’d have 2 final fours to his name at this point.

[zonagrad]

The harsh criticism is so reminiscent of the criticism of Lute, especially before 1994. And after the early exit of '93, so many fans had had enough. The Pac 10 regular season titles and 17-1 conference records were easily dismissed because of the first round losses of '93, '92, and even the 2nd round collapse in '90.

I know fans want final fours and national championships. But it's fucking hard and you need to be lucky as well. Nobody is feeling sorry for Arizona even if they lost one of their top players off an undefeated team in '14 that essentially derailed a title run and then ran into a team in '15 that made 10 of 12 contested 3 pointers in the second half of a regional final. And still only won by 7. Wisconsin had top 15 pick Frank Kaminsky stay for his senior year after a stellar finish to his junior season that essentially did nothing to raise his draft stock any further. Arizona couldn't even keep Grant Jerrett for more than one season!!! Does anybody not think Miller goes home at night at kicks the trash can across the room?

In 2016 it looked like PJC would grow into a great, 4-year player. It never happened and frankly it cost Arizona dearly in the NCAAs.

A little perspective is needed. Arizona has won the Pac 12 5 out of the last 9 years. That means beating out UW (which finally fired its coach), Stanford (which Miller has never lost against), Oregon (which did get a final 4 thanks to a few 24 year old players), USC and UCLA (two programs that have grossly underperformed considering their recruiting advantages), Utah (which has an identical demographic as Arizona).

This season is a low water mark. And it's not unexpected. The good thing is it's easy to look into the future and confidently know that next season will be significantly better. That's not a wish -- like football where you're never really sure what to expect. We KNOW Arizona will be very good next season.

If you can't grasp the big picture and appreciate what Miller has done so far and what the possibilities are for the future -- then you really don't know shit about basketball.

[Merkin]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

[ByJoveByJingle]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

I haven’t seen anybody directly call for his firing, but there have been a number of opinions saying maybe it’s “time to move on,” which is essentially the same thing in less direct phrasing.

[RiseAndFire]

Many have said Millers time is up, including me. Guy is a micromanager and has somehow squandered 7 top 5 recruiting classes. Not only do we underachieve but they do it in the most unentertaining and embarrassing fashion with freaking Bennett Ball.

At least with Lute when they let us down it was fun to watch and they played offense


going to blow him up in April anyway when Book testifies

[ByJoveByJingle]

Your opinion doesn’t count. I don’t want to hear opinions about climate change from a flat-earther, either.

[zonagrad]

Many have said Millers time is up, including me. Guy is a micromanager and has somehow squandered 7 top 5 recruiting classes. Not only do we underachieve but they do it in the most unentertaining and embarrassing fashion with freaking Bennett Ball.

At least with Lute when they let us down it was fun to watch and they played offense


going to blow him up in April anyway when Book testifies

Every village has one. It would be great if you realized it was you.

[cats101]

Losing is fun as long as it's entertaining. Wow

[catgrad97]

The same people who want Miller fired are the fools who wanted Lute gone after Santa Clara.

The whole Pac-12 conference is becoming incrementally less competitive and more of an embarrassment in basketball annually. I just don't want Arizona to go down with it.

I want Miller to just loosen the reins a bit. Stop tightening up in games and coach to the full extent of his recruited talent.

Particularly, teach them how to attack a zone. PLEASE.

[PieceOfMeat]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

I haven’t seen anybody directly call for his firing, but there have been a number of opinions saying maybe it’s “time to move on,” which is essentially the same thing in less direct phrasing.

I can understand that opinion, to an extent, given all the rumors (by credible people) that Miller had essentially wanted to "move on" himself prior to the fbi bullshit happening and then being put in a position where nobody would want him.

So if one believes Miller was essentially done and ready to move on himself, I can see why one would be ready for him to move on given how things have gone for a decade and the abysmal current state of the team.

[PieceOfMeat]

The whole Pac-12 conference is becoming incrementally less competitive and more of an embarrassment in basketball annually. I just don't want Arizona to go down with it.

I want Miller to just loosen the reins a bit. Stop tightening up in games and coach to the full extent of his recruited talent.

Particularly, teach them how to attack a zone. PLEASE.

Nothing in a decade of coaching at AZ would suggest he can do what you are wanting.

:edited for spelling:

[Newportcat]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

I haven’t seen anybody directly call for his firing, but there have been a number of opinions saying maybe it’s “time to move on,” which is essentially the same thing in less direct phrasing.

I can understand that opinion, to an extent, given all the rumors (by credible people) that Miller had essentially wanted to "move on" himself prior to the fbi bullshit happening and then being put in a position where nobody would want him.

So if one believes Miller was essentially done and ready to move on himself, I can see why one would be ready for him to move on given how things have gone for a decade and the abysmal current state of the team.

This is basically how I think except I think Miller deserves more time given the excellant recruiting class we have coming in. I do not foresee Miller ever changing though which sucks but he is way too good of a recruiter to fire right now given how awful the PAC 12 is. I would be pretty scared with Dave Heeke running the search for a new head coach right now.

Did this team really almost lose to UC Davis...at home. This team is just not good

[PHXCATS]

Is there some bullshit internal drama with this team? Where the hell is the team that fought so hard vs UCONN and Gonzaga?

Thank God I only bet the first half last night.

[Captain Obvious]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

I haven’t seen anybody directly call for his firing, but there have been a number of opinions saying maybe it’s “time to move on,” which is essentially the same thing in less direct phrasing.

I can understand that opinion, to an extent, given all the rumors (by credible people) that Miller had essentially wanted to "move on" himself prior to the fbi bullshit happening and then being put in a position where nobody would want him.

So if one believes Miller was essentially done and ready to move on himself, I can see why one would be ready for him to move on given how things have gone for a decade and the abysmal current state of the team.

This is basically how I think except I think Miller deserves more time given the excellant recruiting class we have coming in. I do not foresee Miller ever changing though which sucks but he is way too good of a recruiter to fire right now given how awful the PAC 12 is. I would be pretty scared with Dave Heeke running the search for a new head coach right now.

Did this team really almost lose to UC Davis...at home. This team is just not good

I kept saying Miller needed more time until this year. He's had so much talent and so little to show for it. He's a fantastic recruiter even though his methods of landing recruits may be a little shady. He's not flexible in his coaching style and even the best recruits struggle to succeed in his system. Look how well Trier is doing with the Knicks if you want an example. I like Miller but let's face it, he inherited a brand with Arizona. Yes the program was down when he inherited it but he didn't have to completely rebuild it like Lute. I would be excited about next year but it seems like it's always next year and next year happens and once again we're left with a big handful of nothing. I refuse to get caught up in the hype anymore. And I can almost guarantee after next year things won't be any different.

[midnightx]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

I haven’t seen anybody directly call for his firing, but there have been a number of opinions saying maybe it’s “time to move on,” which is essentially the same thing in less direct phrasing.

I can understand that opinion, to an extent, given all the rumors (by credible people) that Miller had essentially wanted to "move on" himself prior to the fbi bullshit happening and then being put in a position where nobody would want him.

So if one believes Miller was essentially done and ready to move on himself, I can see why one would be ready for him to move on given how things have gone for a decade and the abysmal current state of the team.

This is basically how I think except I think Miller deserves more time given the excellant recruiting class we have coming in. I do not foresee Miller ever changing though which sucks but he is way too good of a recruiter to fire right now given how awful the PAC 12 is. I would be pretty scared with Dave Heeke running the search for a new head coach right now.

Did this team really almost lose to UC Davis...at home. This team is just not good

On paper, none of this makes sense. The primary rotation consists largely of 4 and 5 star talent. Yet, other than the first 30 minutes of the Gonzaga game and the UConn game, this squad plays like a lower-tier team. Did Miller simply miss on most of these recruits -- i.e. would they all be playing in such mediocre fashion in other programs as well? BWill is a freshman, so his inconsistency is understandable (it is not as if he was a top-ten rated guy), but one would think highly rated players like Randolph, Lee, and Akot (even Barcello) would be further along with their development. On paper, a program would love to have recruits of that magnitude, yet it seems like AZ is receiving little benefit.

[Dave]

Miller is recruiting at a elite level, but roster turnover is killing us. I have no idea what the answer is. If we lose the majority of talent off this years team we will be back in the same boat.

[azcat49]

Lee to me is the biggest disappointment although Akot is a very close 1B.

I keep wondering how Luther averaged 16 and 10 in the ACC

[Merkin]

I keep wondering how Luther averaged 16 and 10 in the ACC

How can any player at that level not know how to pump fake?

They say Luther is the strongest player on the team by far, but maybe he is too strong. He could probably bench press more than most the UA football players.

[ByJoveByJingle]

TIL . . . Trier was unsuccessful and performed poorly at Arizona before breaking out with the Knicks.

[MrMeow]

The whole Pac-12 conference is becoming incrementally less competitive and more of an embarrassment in basketball annually. I just don't want Arizona to go down with it.

I want Miller to just loosen the reins a bit. Stop tightening up in games and coach to the full extent of his recruited talent.

Particularly, teach them how to attack a zone. PLEASE.

Nothing in a decade of coaching at AZ would sugest he can do what you are wanting.

Right.

Memo to Miller: what is the definition of insanity?

[ChooChooCat]

While being awakened in the early morning by my newborn and on the break of insanity all I can think of while dozing off feeding my baby back to sleep is in just how many ways can Sean Miller inevitably fail scheming with all the talent he recruited for next year. I yearn for normal nightmares now...

[Beachcat97]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

[ByJoveByJingle]

Yeah, I’ve noticed over the years that when I have talented students in my architecture design studios that I’m an excellent instructor and when I have poor students my instructional skills seem to deteriorate. I wish I could understand why I can’t be more consistent in my teaching.

[MrMeow]

Yeah, I’ve noticed over the years that when I have talented students in my architecture design studios that I’m an excellent instructor and when I have poor students my instructional skills seem to deteriorate. I wish I could understand why I can’t be more consistent in my teaching.

I have never met Miller, but by all reports he's an excellent teacher. He just doesn't know when to quit teaching.

[EOCT]

Yeah, I’ve noticed over the years that when I have talented students in my architecture design studios that I’m an excellent instructor and when I have poor students my instructional skills seem to deteriorate. I wish I could understand why I can’t be more consistent in my teaching.

I have never met Miller, but by all reports he's an excellent teacher. He just doesn't know when to quit teaching.

Plus, plus Meow. Wise, thought-provoking comment!

[TucsonClip]

While being awakened in the early morning by my newborn and on the break of insanity all I can think of while dozing off feeding my baby back to sleep is in just how many ways can Sean Miller inevitably fail scheming with all the talent he recruited for next year. I yearn for normal nightmares now...

Still calling bull on the multiple PGs setup/offense he is going to deploy. Putting two "PGs" on the floor does not equate to a different looking offense. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see it with Nico and Brandon next year, however I remain unconvinced the design is going to look much different than we are used to.

[CalStateTempe]

If he doesn’t give the keys to the car to the creators next season and we still have the same results....

[PieceOfMeat]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

Define "huge"?

[dovecanyoncat]

Yeah, I’ve noticed over the years that when I have talented students in my architecture design studios that I’m an excellent instructor and when I have poor students my instructional skills seem to deteriorate. I wish I could understand why I can’t be more consistent in my teaching.

I have never met Miller, but by all reports he's an excellent teacher. He just doesn't know when to quit teaching.

Plus, plus Meow. Wise, thought-provoking comment!

Teaching, in a traditional sense, and winning games, are two different things. The student and teacher must be teacher and student to each other. As fans we want victories and championships, but maybe players pick Miller because of what he teaches. We aren't the students. Some teachers tyrannize their students and have good records doing it. Some teachers produce excellent students whose success lies beyond the teacher.

[Beachcat97]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

Define "huge"?

Pac champs, protected seed in the NCAA tourney, S16 or better.

[midnightx]

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

And probably Bol Bol.

[MrMeow]

Yeah, I’ve noticed over the years that when I have talented students in my architecture design studios that I’m an excellent instructor and when I have poor students my instructional skills seem to deteriorate. I wish I could understand why I can’t be more consistent in my teaching.

I have never met Miller, but by all reports he's an excellent teacher. He just doesn't know when to quit teaching.

Plus, plus Meow. Wise, thought-provoking comment!

Teaching, in a traditional sense, and winning games, are two different things. The student and teacher must be teacher and student to each other. As fans we want victories and championships, but maybe players pick Miller because of what he teaches. We aren't the students. Some teachers tyrannize their students and have good records doing it. Some teachers produce excellent students whose success lies beyond the teacher.

Fans pay the bills, students don't. Lute understood that. He understood when the teaching stops and what pays the bills, pleasing the fans, starts. Miller needs to pick up the pace.

[dovecanyoncat]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

[PHXCATS]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

Define "huge"?

Pac champs, protected seed in the NCAA tourney, S16 or better.

Yawn. Been there done that so many times. Stop with the child's play. We need the real goal. A final four

[ASUHATER!]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

Except for the 40k in tuition a year. In reality, the fans pay nothing compared to students.

[ByJoveByJingle]

I feel like I took a wrong turn in Albuquerque.

[dovecanyoncat]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

Except for the 40k in tuition a year. In reality, the fans pay nothing compared to students.

Isn't it safe to say the fans account for profit and students account for the bills?

[PHXCATS]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

Except for the 40k in tuition a year. In reality, the fans pay nothing compared to students.

Isn't it safe to say the fans account for profit and students account for the bills?

Asuhater is 100% wrong. All money the athletic department uses comes from fans. 100%. Donations and ticket sales and concessions and appearal.

[dovecanyoncat]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

Except for the 40k in tuition a year. In reality, the fans pay nothing compared to students.

Isn't it safe to say the fans account for profit and students account for the bills?

Asuhater is 100% wrong. All money the athletic department uses comes from fans. 100%. Donations and ticket sales and concessions and appearal.

Y'all can fight it out. Obviously I don't have the slightest clue between athletic department costs, academic department costs, and UofA profit.

[Beachcat97]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

Define "huge"?

Pac champs, protected seed in the NCAA tourney, S16 or better.

Yawn. Been there done that so many times. Stop with the child's play. We need the real goal. A final four

I get that. I do. If BW, CJ, BR, IL, and DD all stay, I think a FF is indeed a possibility. I know we've had superb freshman classes before, but this one feels more special. It may just be wishful thinking.

Nico could end up being the best freshman PG we've ever seen at AZ.

[MrMeow]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

Except for the 40k in tuition a year. In reality, the fans pay nothing compared to students.

In addition to the fact that you are wrong, you miss the point. The point is Miller can teach all he wants, but his job is to keep the paying fans happy. What keeps them happy? I think you at least know the answer to that one. Clue: early tournament losses, cupcake schedules, squeekers over mid-majors, etc. = unhappy fans. Clue to Heeke: eventually, unhappy fans quit paying attention. Let's hope next year Miller can finally do something significant with all the talent he recruits and teaches. So far? Meh.

[Newportcat]

Fans pay the bills, students don't.

True dat.

Except for the 40k in tuition a year. In reality, the fans pay nothing compared to students.

Isn't it safe to say the fans account for profit and students account for the bills?

Asuhater is 100% wrong. All money the athletic department uses comes from fans. 100%. Donations and ticket sales and concessions and appearal.

You are so stupid Machina. You just love lying don't you. Its just your thing right. You just say lies in such a strong sense to prove your narrative right.

https://arizonawildcats.com/sports/2017 ... efits.aspx" target="_blank

All money the athletic department uses comes from fans...except that new mandatory fee for students....which I heard they are going to try and double to get more money from students to improve the West Side of Arizona stadium since they can raise a lot of debt around the fee.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

What about tv money and shoe money and ncaa money?

[Merkin]

PAC-12 gives $30.9M to each school.

Total revenue for all UA sports is $75,114,700 with men's basketball bringing in $23.4M.

Nike gives $2.2M in apparel to the UA each year.

Miller's contract includes $750K in radio/TV money and $400K from Nike/IMG.

[sirhamsalot]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

Define "huge"?

Pac champs, protected seed in the NCAA tourney, S16 or better.

Yawn. Been there done that so many times. Stop with the child's play. We need the real goal. A final four

Consistency is hart to accomplish. Look at Kevin Ollie who won a national championship and was run out of town. Shaka Smart took VCU to a final four and can barely manage .500 at Texas.

I'd take this scenario every year! Every single year! 98% of D1 college teams and fans would love for their team to achieve this year in and year out. To make a final four and win a national championship, you have to get hot at the right time (look especially at 2011 UCONN) and you have to get a little lucky. We've caught a few bad breaks, but we will break through eventually.

[PHXCATS]

And the board is starting to turn against Miller.

Keep in mind, guys, that we were supposed to have Quinerly, Little and O'Neal.

Count me among those who think we're going to bounce back in a huge way next season.

Define "huge"?

Pac champs, protected seed in the NCAA tourney, S16 or better.

Yawn. Been there done that so many times. Stop with the child's play. We need the real goal. A final four

Consistency is hart to accomplish. Look at Kevin Ollie who won a national championship and was run out of town. Shaka Smart took VCU to a final four and can barely manage .500 at Texas.

I'd take this scenario every year! Every single year! 98% of D1 college teams and fans would love for their team to achieve this year in and year out. To make a final four and win a national championship, you have to get hot at the right time (look especially at 2011 UCONN) and you have to get a little lucky. We've caught a few bad breaks, but we will break through eventually.

Hope you are right but I would certainly take two titles and the rest of UCONN's crap the last ten years over what Miller has given us

[PHXCATS]

PAC-12 gives $30.9M to each school.

Total revenue for all UA sports is $75,114,700 with men's basketball bringing in $23.4M.

Nike gives $2.2M in apparel to the UA each year.

Miller's contract includes $750K in radio/TV money and $400K from Nike/IMG.

And all of these are from fans. Fans watching and listening and buying Nike gear.

Edit I admit I forgot about the student fee since it is so new. Still though no "tuition" money is used to fund athletics in any way

[EVCat]

There really is something to throwing a bunch of spare parts that haven't played together on the court to play one year and expecting the level of the team's play to somehow correlate with their high school accolades. It is crazy.

As for the 4 and 5 star stuff...

OK...but Jeter was ranked that and did not succeed at Duke. I think that should reset expectations for him, and he has been as good as I thought he would be.

Justin Coleman hits huuuge shots. But he is also an undersized point who can't, really, consistently shoot and disappears for large portions of the game. I have no idea what his stars were, but he went to Alabama then left Alabama for Samford. For whatever reason. He is still a senior transfer from Sam(notStan)ford and we are STARTING him because of roster turnover.

Brandon Williams is a Freshman with a bad wheel...give him time

Brandon Randolph is a scorer, but there is a reason he didn't force Sean to give him more minutes last year. He is what he is, and at times that is the difference for us to win a game, because he is the one true killer on this team (Justin Coleman hits big shots, but Randolph does it all game)

Ryan Luther looked very good before the hand injury, but, again...he was a transfer from an awful team. Yeah, he might have been their best player. On an awful team.

This team lost FIVE starters. All five, gone. After losing a one and done the year before (Markkanen). After losing one and dones virtually every year (Stanley Johnson, Aaron Gordon, Grant Jerrett...and that one dude, the center, right?)...

So Miller has had to back fill for one and dones for the better part of the decade, and has largely done so. But this off season cost him possibly Bol Bol, O'Neal (who couldn't play) and God knows what that would have done to the senior transfer market for us if we were still rolling.

We lost a year. In an era where you get a lot of players for only one year. AND we lost OUR ENTIRE STARTING FIVE WHILE HAVING NO ABILITY TO RECRUIT!

Who cares what these kids stars were two teams ago coming out of high school. We have 2 starters who went somewhere else big, then left. Downgraded in Coleman's case. And one sometimes starter that was the best player on an awful team who came for one year.

We throw all this together because of circumstances...and people expect it to work by adding up high school star ratings? Sure, we have 0 returning starters, 3 guys who played for other programs including a PG and PF who didn't even redshirt here, just showed up and played, and a bench of flawed players that, if they could be made into a single player, would be a superstar. And this is supposed to be better than 9-4?

Didn't some of the later Dream Team's show us anything? You can't just take talent and mash it together and hope it works in a short period of time? And this team is full of castoffs and bench players from a team that just lost 5 starters. If we were anyone but Arizona, we would have been picked to finish 10th in the PAC. But there is talent here, a coach that has proven he can win, and a home court that is still pretty formidable, no matter how much people worry about some empty (sold) seats on a Friday night vs UC Davis.

This season was preempted last year. We are watching something cobbled together to throw on the air. Enjoy it. Enjoy these kids and their journey. Hope they sneak into the tournament. Because we are looking at an aberration this season, and they are STILL pretty good.

[zonagrad]

Was someone calling for Miller to be fired?

Don't recall seeing that post.

We can all be disappointed in how this season is turning out, but I still a huge fan of Miller.

Same with Sumlin too for that matter.

None of these losses are near as painful as 2008 and 2001. You all know the games just by the year.

I haven’t seen anybody directly call for his firing, but there have been a number of opinions saying maybe it’s “time to move on,” which is essentially the same thing in less direct phrasing.

I can understand that opinion, to an extent, given all the rumors (by credible people) that Miller had essentially wanted to "move on" himself prior to the fbi bullshit happening and then being put in a position where nobody would want him.

So if one believes Miller was essentially done and ready to move on himself, I can see why one would be ready for him to move on given how things have gone for a decade and the abysmal current state of the team.

This is basically how I think except I think Miller deserves more time given the excellant recruiting class we have coming in. I do not foresee Miller ever changing though which sucks but he is way too good of a recruiter to fire right now given how awful the PAC 12 is. I would be pretty scared with Dave Heeke running the search for a new head coach right now.

Did this team really almost lose to UC Davis...at home. This team is just not good

I kept saying Miller needed more time until this year. He's had so much talent and so little to show for it. He's a fantastic recruiter even though his methods of landing recruits may be a little shady. He's not flexible in his coaching style and even the best recruits struggle to succeed in his system. Look how well Trier is doing with the Knicks if you want an example. I like Miller but let's face it, he inherited a brand with Arizona. Yes the program was down when he inherited it but he didn't have to completely rebuild it like Lute. I would be excited about next year but it seems like it's always next year and next year happens and once again we're left with a big handful of nothing. I refuse to get caught up in the hype anymore. And I can almost guarantee after next year things won't be any different.

So little to show for it?????

Arizona has won 5 Pac 12 titles in 9 years. Why is this somehow dismissed as no big deal? Arizona has been to the Elite 8 three times during that span. In two of those games -- shitty officiating handcuffed Arizona (UCONN & Wisky '14). Both games came down to the final shot. In '15, Wisky shot 10-12 from 3 point range in the second half. 10. Of. 12. That's video game nonsense.

The trouble with Miller is he has recruited some exceptional players who are barely here for a season (Markannen, Gordon, Ayton). All of these teams won the Pac 12 title. The argument is they fell short in the NCAA tourney. Gordon's team lost a key player in February (Ashley) and Gordon himself holds some blame for not being able to convert FT's in a critical game. This is Miller's fault?

Markannen & Ayton both had great teams. Both had inadequate point guard play. Put that on Miller for rolling the dice with PJC for too many years. Arizona paid the price. But why would you want to get rid of Miller over this or minimize his team's success over the course of a long season just because an undersized point guard freezes up and can't deliver in the NCAA tourney?

I don't any Miller supporters believe he's above any criticism. But crap, Arizona has been incredible under his direction. Without question the program has carried water for the entire Pac 12 for 9 seasons. Oregon had two really good years. And credit much of that to incredible circumstances where Altman had incredible depth because two of the key players were 24 years old!!!! Arizona has been a victim of its own success in which guys like Markannen, S. Johnson, Gordon, Ayton, etc... aren't here long enough to create team success in the NCAA tourney but certainly leverage themselves into incredible pro players.

If Arizona was a stock available for purchase -- the order would be a hard BUY for the future. Look at the recruiting class coming in. Whether or not this incoming class translates to NCAA tourney success remains to be seen. And it's hard to tell how long each player will stay with the program or leave after one season for a successful pro career.

Look at the other programs in the Pac 12. How many elite professional players are they turning out compared to Arizona? Oregon, UCLA, Stanford, Washington, Utah and the rest have done very little to elevate this conference.

[PHXCATS]

Nobody cares about PAC12 titles besides homers and apologists. People only care about titles and final fours