Coach Sumlin

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:52 am

also, newport, if you're going to keep saying you and your family has done so much, ya gotta give us the proof now man.

who is your family? what have they done?

I'm curious over here.

prh · Post by **prh** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:52 am

Chicat wrote:
UAdevil wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:Thanks for all you and your family has done but you are a total douche. Fuck off saying you do so much more than anyone else.

And since you mentioned it lets do the math. It is easy to assume the AD makes 500 on average per season ticket hold between donations tickets and concession markup. Well all we would need is 1000 more to buy it Yates.

Or if Miller fired Book years ago when he should have we would have had 1.5M more
Fuck YOU Machina. You're ALWAYS telling us how much more you do to support the program than anyone else here. Are you THAT non self aware???
No kidding.

Anyone else as tired of this knob as I am?

We ALL are

blackjacker · Post by **blackjacker** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:09 am

Newportcat wrote:
blackjacker wrote:Would we trade our situation with WSU's? Leach wanted this job. True, he wasn't a typical retread and TTU fans did want him, but what kind of recruiting classes is he getting in Pullman?
Why is Pullman a better place for football success than Tucson?
How many outright conference titles has Leach won?

How many bowl games at WSU has he won?

How many BCS type bowls has he won?

How many times has he beaten his in state rival at WSU?

How many times did he beat Oklahoma at Tech?

Leach is a rare exemption in that you are right he is not a typical retread since tech fans never wanted him fired . And he has done great things at WSU but in reality they still always lose to UW, they have only won one bowl game, they never win conference championships etc

Why because they don’t recruit well. When they play a team with better athletes and as good of coaching like a UW they will lose. So even though Leach is a great coach, has not really accomplished anything of note and won’t until he recruits better. He would have been a million times better then Rich Rod but doubtful he would have lead us to a conference championship either. His system beats bad to average teams very well but typically loses to teams that have better athletes and are just as well coached.

Read from a WSU fan site

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cougce ... su-vs-utah" target="_blank

If he stays there, his success may be built upon with better recruiting. I think he is a lot closer to getting to the Rose bowl than we are in an arguably tougher division.

I don't accept mediocrity, but we first have to get back to 8 win seasons before we get to conference championships.

Sumlin isn't going anywhere soon but after fucking up the Tate situation and blowing the t cup game, he has a lot of work to do to get me on his side. He could start by explaining what the hell happened with Tate beyond the injury.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:36 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:also, newport, if you're going to keep saying you and your family has done so much, ya gotta give us the proof now man.

who is your family? what have they done?

I'm curious over here.

I sent you a PM, I prefer to be anonymous but now you know

Mind you I have NEVER brought it up before yesterday because frankly mentioning my family which I have no control has always seemed like a douche move. I like people here just view me as a regular Newport douchebag. I got judged on my family while in college and actually have enjoyed being anonymous here.

But something just really pissed me off with someone calling me a transplant or less of a U of A fan since I grew up and now live in SoCal. That’s utter bullshit. Out of state students help make U of A such a great place and pay a ton more in tuition. I don’t consider anyone a better fan or have more loyalty then someone else. We are all U of A fans in our own ways. There are no fake U of A fans in my book. Except Machina, he is a douche

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:57 am

azgreg wrote:https://tucson.com/no-ua-leaves-wac-for ... 08167.html

Can't imagine this in today's world:

But powerful USC football coach John McKay, whose school refused to play Washington State in small-town Pullman

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:59 pm

Newportcat wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:also, newport, if you're going to keep saying you and your family has done so much, ya gotta give us the proof now man.

who is your family? what have they done?

I'm curious over here.
I sent you a PM, I prefer to be anonymous but now you know

Mind you I have NEVER brought it up before yesterday because frankly mentioning my family which I have no control has always seemed like a douche move. I like people here just view me as a regular Newport douchebag. I got judged on it while in college and actually have enjoyed being anonymous here.

But something just really pissed me off with someone calling me a transplant or less of a U of A fan since I grew up and now live in SoCal. That’s utter bullshit. Out of state students help make U of A such a great place and pay a ton more in tuition. I don’t consider anyone a better fan or have more loyalty then someone else. We are all U of A fans in our own ways. There are no fake U of A fans in my book. Except Machina, he is a douche

Good post. And definitely a family that has done a lot for the school. So machina...go away now.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:08 pm

We can all be fans in our own way. Money is irrelevant and has no impact to me on someone's "quality of fandom". Sumlin is likely not going to bring us to the promised land of football glory that no one under 100 years old has ever seen from Arizona. Maybe I'm wrong, but the evidence to the contrary is strong. Either way, I'll still watch games when it fits into my life and will stay posting here about the team. I just can't justify spending a single penny on the culture of our program. Anyone who judges me for that isn't a very stand up person and should just keep it to themselves.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:31 pm

azgreg wrote:https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/29/ ... onference/

Thanks Greg - that's the article I was thinking of.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:03 pm

Newport, if your family really wants to do some good for the UofA they should make a nice donation to BearDownWildcats. We might even consider naming a forum after you.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:45 pm

Newportcat wrote:Out of state students help make U of A such a great place and pay a ton more in tuition. I don’t consider anyone a better fan or have more loyalty then someone else. We are all U of A fans in our own ways. There are no fake U of A fans in my book. Except Machina, he is a douche

Yep

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:55 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Out of state students help make U of A such a great place and pay a ton more in tuition. I don’t consider anyone a better fan or have more loyalty then someone else. We are all U of A fans in our own ways. There are no fake U of A fans in my book. Except Machina, he is a douche
Yep

He is a one trick pony whose act gets really tiring. We all understand Machina about bad fans, time to shut up about it.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:19 pm

Newportcat wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:also, newport, if you're going to keep saying you and your family has done so much, ya gotta give us the proof now man.

who is your family? what have they done?

I'm curious over here.
I sent you a PM, I prefer to be anonymous but now you know

Mind you I have NEVER brought it up before yesterday because frankly mentioning my family which I have no control has always seemed like a douche move. I like people here just view me as a regular Newport douchebag. I got judged on my family while in college and actually have enjoyed being anonymous here.

But something just really pissed me off with someone calling me a transplant or less of a U of A fan since I grew up and now live in SoCal. That’s utter bullshit. Out of state students help make U of A such a great place and pay a ton more in tuition. I don’t consider anyone a better fan or have more loyalty then someone else. We are all U of A fans in our own ways. There are no fake U of A fans in my book. Except Machina, he is a douche

Newps,
I would like to be the very first to openly thank you if your family had any financial support going towards our brand new indoor practice facility. Many thanks if that’s the case! I will go on record and proudly proclaim that this glorious new structure will only help to improve our recruiting.

Cheers,

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:28 am

Sid wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:also, newport, if you're going to keep saying you and your family has done so much, ya gotta give us the proof now man.

who is your family? what have they done?

I'm curious over here.
I sent you a PM, I prefer to be anonymous but now you know

Mind you I have NEVER brought it up before yesterday because frankly mentioning my family which I have no control has always seemed like a douche move. I like people here just view me as a regular Newport douchebag. I got judged on my family while in college and actually have enjoyed being anonymous here.

But something just really pissed me off with someone calling me a transplant or less of a U of A fan since I grew up and now live in SoCal. That’s utter bullshit. Out of state students help make U of A such a great place and pay a ton more in tuition. I don’t consider anyone a better fan or have more loyalty then someone else. We are all U of A fans in our own ways. There are no fake U of A fans in my book. Except Machina, he is a douche
Newps,
I would like to be the very first to openly thank you if your family had any financial support going towards our brand new indoor practice facility. Many thanks if that’s the case! I will go on record and proudly proclaim that this glorious new structure will only help to improve our recruiting.

Cheers,

We did not, that was all the Davis family and candidly the students at U of A with the new student fee. Much of the new construction going on right now is funded by debt from the student fee, not as much in donations. Davis family has really stepped up and become great donors.

I will say that it will be disappointing if that new structure doesn't provide some bump in recruiting as it has long been needed. I am still shocked it took this long to get done but in defense of our athletic department, there was not the space for it until the baseball team moved out. Then they signed a five year lease at Hi Corbett and wanted to make sure it was the right move and wait a couple years before tearing down the baseball stadium. Obviously that turned out to be an awesome move and now have a 25 year lease on it with U of A covering all expenses so they felt comfortable tearing it down which opened up the space finally for it. I long advocated for it as again the weather for football in Tucson is awful and a major issue for us in recruiting. Running a football camp in June for prospective recruits outside in Tucson or hosting them at the same time is not a good selling technique.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:46 am

HaCats wrote:Newport, why do you keep asking for ‘someone to make a case why Sumlin will succeed’....as though you are proving some point? Can you make a case why any living breathing human being who we would have a realistic shot at hiring.....WOULD succeed at arizona? Nobody in this recent thread stated that his tenure is a surefire success, I don’t feel that way at all.

It’s funny how I touched a nerve with you and you’re upset you were ‘lectured’, but you’ve spent the last several months on this board lecturing everyone about how you have seen the light on the ills of football in ways the rest of us Neanderthals ever could. No matter the topic, you come off as the guy at the bar who is enamored with the sound of his own voice and thinks he’s the smartest guy in every room he walks into.

I keep asking because this thread is the Kevin Sumlin thread. Thankfully most of the people who post on here are very smart fans. People I respect a lot. People who I have realized can be objective about Arizona athletics and their fandom. People who I think respect each other (except Machina as the guy sucks) and others opinions. So my question to you who wants to be objective and give Kevin Sumlin a couple of years before determining if he will be a failure or not is provide your case for why he can be successful. If you are going to make that assumption that he could be successful, well you better have strong reasoning to back that up. Thats being objective which you said so few people do anymore.

My issue with you is how honestly stupid you look for saying people need to be more objective yet you say your emotions overtake your reasoning when it comes to Arizona football. So you are not being objective at all and doing the very thing you lectured against. That touched no nerve as I just found it so damn funny to be honest with you. I think me looking at the game of football and the damages it causes as being objective. One of the most important things I learned while a student at U of A and specifically in the Entrepreneurship program at Eller, was to think objectively. It was beat in my head my senior year in college to constantly take the emotion out of things and think about the business plan we were creating warts and all. We would have to present our business plans over and over again and have outside people pick and prode and tear our ideas apart. It was difficult but an awesome experience and something I still carry with me to this day and why I will always be loyal to the U of A. It shaped who I am by the way it taught me to think and be objective. Now, you saying you are effectively better then me and others for having more roots then us in Arizona touched a nerve because 1. It was a really stupid comment, 2. It was factually untrue. No one is a better fan then anyone else of the U of A. I could have long said I am a better fan for what myself and my family have done for the U of A but that would be a complete douche comment. We are all fans and all bleed red and blue. There are no fake fans of U of A. No one is better then anyone else.

So again, make the case for why Kevin Sumlin can be successful here at Arizona. Step up and defend your position for being objective with him and feeling like there is a chance he can be successful. Just don't cry when others tear it a part.

And to answer your question, I do think Arizona could succeed for a couple years with the right up and coming coach. We could get lucky and hire a Nick Saban or Urban Meyer when they are young into their career. We could get a coach like Tony Amato for soccer who comes from a smaller school and takes over a very difficult program and has strong success because they are smart, young, and very hungry. So recruits are drawn to them even though their are major structural issues with the program. Do I think that means Arizona ever wins a national championship in football, no. But its not unrealistic to think we could catch lighting in a bottle like Utah did with Urban Meyer. Changed their whole program. And that could mean we finally win a conference championship again.

Will take a tremendous amount of luck and it wont take just the fans showing up

But I will tell you in my opinion, hiring re-treads should NEVER EVER be done again for the football program. EVER.

HaCats · Post by **HaCats** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:21 am

Haha, for not having touched a nerve...you just took the time to write a dissertation. I thought about posting about why I think Sumlin ‘has a chance’ to succeed right now, but am enjoying a nice Sat morning with my daughters and trying to go tit for tat with your term paper right now seems like a really lame way to spend my weekend. This is truly funny at this point. When I am bored at work sometime the next week I will come back and post why I think Sumlin has as good a chance as anyone of having success here. And then you can write another term paper on why it’s idiotic. And I can promise you, that nothing you or any other poster on a message board...will make me cry. Or lose a minute of sleep. Only UofA football coughing up a 19 point 4th quarter lead to asu does that to me.

HaCats · Post by **HaCats** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:23 am

One honest question I do have for you Newport, is what your opinion of the Sumlin hire was when it was announced. I honestly don’t remember, and you could’ve been as anti about it then as you are now. But I don’t recall.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm

HaCats wrote:One honest question I do have for you Newport, is what your opinion of the Sumlin hire was when it was announced. I honestly don’t remember, and you could’ve been as anti about it then as you are now. But I don’t recall.

I hated Rich Rod as I knew shit about him that made me realize what an absolute piece of shit person he is. I was happy anyone not named Rich Rod would be coaching our football team on 2018. I did think sumlin had an up hill battle with the lack of talent on the team but thought he was an excellent recruiter so what the hell. But I had concerns about him being a retread but for the options Arizona had I felt he was as good an option as we had that late in the game.

Then I watched his press conference and was holy unimpressed. Then I saw his recruiting which was also very unimpressive this summer. Then even though I didn’t watch any game outside of the 4th quarter of ASU clear from this board his coaching leaves a lot to be desired. So at the time of his hire I thought it was as good as Heeke could do but now realize I was dead wrong as a program like Arizona should avoid retreads as much as possible especially for a sport like football.

Just insane that after paying this much money to get rid of Rich Rod, we would provide a big buyout to sumlin too. You would have thought we learned our lesson. Sumlin has no other job offers at the time. Those buyouts are so insane.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:29 pm

HaCats wrote:Haha, for not having touched a nerve...you just took the time to write a dissertation. I thought about posting about why I think Sumlin ‘has a chance’ to succeed right now, but am enjoying a nice Sat morning with my daughters and trying to go tit for tat with your term paper right now seems like a really lame way to spend my weekend. This is truly funny at this point. When I am bored at work sometime the next week I will come back and post why I think Sumlin has as good a chance as anyone of having success here. And then you can write another term paper on why it’s idiotic. And I can promise you, that nothing you or any other poster on a message board...will make me cry. Or lose a minute of sleep. Only UofA football coughing up a 19 point 4th quarter lead to asu does that to me.

Really lame response

And I’m glad you are strong enough to not cry because what someone says on a message board...

HaCats · Post by **HaCats** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:02 pm

Haha, ‘really lame response’. As if anything I respond with at this point would be suitable for you. You’re frothing at the mouth to win some argument with me....and I honestly don’t even really know what we’re arguing about. Just to reiterate, I said:

1) I was as upset at that loss as one could possibly be, and after a couple of days of being angry subsided (and thus no longer thinking with emotion)....I concluded that even with the overall disappointment of this season, and a couple of alarming coaching decisions....that I am not quite ready to bury Sumlin and declare that his tenure here is a sure fire disaster.

2) My analogy of the loss of objectivity. Yes, I do hate the way in sports and politics now....it is ‘have a take, don’t suck, have an extreme position and fight/argue to the death with said position. My point being that with Sumlin, it’s just a little dumb that it’s already a case of ‘he sucks, fire him’.

3) You’re bothered by my characterization of SoCal alums not caring much about the success/failure of he football program. I will say again that it is my belief and my personal experience with my friends, friends of friends and people that I know.....that this tends to be the case a lot. Did, I exaggerate it a bit....for affect, perhaps. Is it a hard and fast rule with no exceptions....of course not.

4) And sorry, I have read your posts for years and do think you come off like you are very impressed with your own intellect. You might be great guy, a wonderful philanthropist, and apparently your family has done more for the University that we both love than any other family in the last 150 years. You just come off as arrogant to me. Sorry, I obviously come off as dumb ass to you. I’m totally good with that.

But as promised, I will get back to you on why I think Sumlin ‘has a chance’ to have a successful tenure in Tucson (not to be confused with, ‘will have a successful tenure’....which you continue to misconstrue)

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, can’t wait to resume this riveting discussion.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:53 pm

Newportcat wrote:Then I saw his recruiting which was also very unimpressive this summer.

Even though your post wasn't directed at me, this is something that just strikes me as over reactive from any of our fans who state this.

The guy can't come in and instantly reverse the course of our recruiting. He hasn't even been here an entire year yet.

Judge his recruiting in year 4 or 5, not in the less-than-a-year he's been on the job.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:07 pm

Weren’t you the one talking about Newport writing a dissertation? Heh...

HaCats wrote:Haha, ‘really lame response’. As if anything I respond with at this point would be suitable for you. You’re frothing at the mouth to win some argument with me....and I honestly don’t even really know what we’re arguing about. Just to reiterate, I said:

1) I was as upset at that loss as one could possibly be, and after a couple of days of being angry subsided (and thus no longer thinking with emotion)....I concluded that even with the overall disappointment of this season, and a couple of alarming coaching decisions....that I am not quite ready to bury Sumlin and declare that his tenure here is a sure fire disaster.

2) My analogy of the loss of objectivity. Yes, I do hate the way in sports and politics now....it is ‘have a take, don’t suck, have an extreme position and fight/argue to the death with said position. My point being that with Sumlin, it’s just a little dumb that it’s already a case of ‘he sucks, fire him’.

3) You’re bothered by my characterization of SoCal alums not caring much about the success/failure of he football program. I will say again that it is my belief and my personal experience with my friends, friends of friends and people that I know.....that this tends to be the case a lot. Did, I exaggerate it a bit....for affect, perhaps. Is it a hard and fast rule with no exceptions....of course not.

4) And sorry, I have read your posts for years and do think you come off like you are very impressed with your own intellect. You might be great guy, a wonderful philanthropist, and apparently your family has done more for the University that we both love than any other family in the last 150 years. You just come off as arrogant to me. Sorry, I obviously come off as dumb ass to you. I’m totally good with that.

But as promised, I will get back to you on why I think Sumlin ‘has a chance’ to have a successful tenure in Tucson (not to be confused with, ‘will have a successful tenure’....which you continue to misconstrue)

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, can’t wait to resume this riveting discussion.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:25 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Then I saw his recruiting which was also very unimpressive this summer.
Even though your post wasn't directed at me, this is something that just strikes me as over reactive from any of our fans who state this.

The guy can't come in and instantly reverse the course of our recruiting. He hasn't even been here an entire year yet.

Judge his recruiting in year 4 or 5, not in the less-than-a-year he's been on the job.

Couple things, at a place like Arizona if you judge a coaches recruiting in Year 4 or 5 you are screwed especially with the lack of talent from Rich Rod. Sumlin was sold as a great recruiter, something Arizona has never really had in its head coach. Smith, Tomey, Mackovic, Stoops (was his first years but then it went downhill), or Rich Rod, none were known as great recruiters. But thats Sumlin's brand. He is a great recruiter with him and his #yessir even making it into an Adidas commercial showcasing high school football players.

To win at Arizona when you are not a great coach (Which I believe he is not) you need to recruit top talented players immediately.

Look at ASU, they signed a pretty decent class last year being lead by a guy with ZERO high school relationships. Sumlin is already dialed in as he presumably has all the relationships

We were sold he was dialed in within the Phoenix recruiting market and outside of a punter, Arizona might not land a single Phoenix player in this class

Now this class is not done so wait and see how it finishes but now he just lost his best Texas recruiter.

Remember too, Sumlin gets the benefit of selling the new indoor facility which no coach has ever had here. While our facilities will simply be average when thats done, its nothing like the disaster we had under Stoops when our facilities were literally the worst in all of D1 football.

Remember Stoops's real first class finished 21st in the country per Rivals. His 3rd class finished 18th.

At a place like Arizona you need to recruit well early and sell how shitty a coach the previous guy was, early playing time, etc. If you wait to recruit well then that excuse goes out the window.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:12 pm

HaCats wrote:Haha, ‘really lame response’. As if anything I respond with at this point would be suitable for you. You’re frothing at the mouth to win some argument with me....and I honestly don’t even really know what we’re arguing about. Just to reiterate, I said:

1) I was as upset at that loss as one could possibly be, and after a couple of days of being angry subsided (and thus no longer thinking with emotion)....I concluded that even with the overall disappointment of this season, and a couple of alarming coaching decisions....that I am not quite ready to bury Sumlin and declare that his tenure here is a sure fire disaster.

2) My analogy of the loss of objectivity. Yes, I do hate the way in sports and politics now....it is ‘have a take, don’t suck, have an extreme position and fight/argue to the death with said position. My point being that with Sumlin, it’s just a little dumb that it’s already a case of ‘he sucks, fire him’.

3) You’re bothered by my characterization of SoCal alums not caring much about the success/failure of he football program. I will say again that it is my belief and my personal experience with my friends, friends of friends and people that I know.....that this tends to be the case a lot. Did, I exaggerate it a bit....for affect, perhaps. Is it a hard and fast rule with no exceptions....of course not.

4) And sorry, I have read your posts for years and do think you come off like you are very impressed with your own intellect. You might be great guy, a wonderful philanthropist, and apparently your family has done more for the University that we both love than any other family in the last 150 years. You just come off as arrogant to me. Sorry, I obviously come off as dumb ass to you. I’m totally good with that.

But as promised, I will get back to you on why I think Sumlin ‘has a chance’ to have a successful tenure in Tucson (not to be confused with, ‘will have a successful tenure’....which you continue to misconstrue)

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, can’t wait to resume this riveting discussion.

I will respond to this in detail later but when you say SoCal fans don’t care about the success or failure of Arizona football, what success are you talking about? Why would Socal fans care much about a program that over the past twenty years has had no major success. This is such a dumb argument and I hope you realize it. I go to every away game at Galen when Arizona plays there against USC (I refuse to make the drive to Pauley as it’s so awful) and the arena is mostly Arizona fans who by the end are chanting U of A so loudly it always makes me proud.

I just think most Arizona alums regardless for where they are from don’t care as much about football because football has really never given much to make someone care. And again college sports are not fair like pro sports where the leagues are set up to create some level of parity.

You and machina must be good friends

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:34 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Then I saw his recruiting which was also very unimpressive this summer.
Even though your post wasn't directed at me, this is something that just strikes me as over reactive from any of our fans who state this.

The guy can't come in and instantly reverse the course of our recruiting. He hasn't even been here an entire year yet.

Judge his recruiting in year 4 or 5, not in the less-than-a-year he's been on the job.

I don't think you have to wait 4 to 5 years to judge. You can judge year to year based on improvement or decline. At this point I'm in favor of sitting back and see what he does with the remaining parts of this class and see what happens with the 2020 class before we decide to ship him out.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:47 pm

Also HaCats, instead of calling me arrogant just respond back with your arguments for why Sumlin can be successful. This is a message board. A place to share ideas. A place to be objective

You thinking I am arrogant is probably because you are not being objective and dislike emotionally what I am saying which is the thing you love, Arizona football, is never going to recepricate that love back. I am like the buddy telling you before you marry the town whore that she is the town whore and you are upset about hearing it and say I’m wrong.

It’s fine, I have been called every name in the book for my opinions on Arizona football. An ASU fan, worthless, piece of shit, and as mentioned even been banned from a website for bringing these ideas up. I have been told I am wrong about recruiting ratings because #okg. I have been told Rich Rod is the next Lute Olson in 2015. I have been told an indoor facility is not needed. I have been told to just shut up and be a fan and not think objectively about Arizona football or even football in general.

But fuck that. I am smart and learned at U of A how to think objectively. I refuse to just believe in something because. I need facts and logic to believe in something. I do not blindly believe in anything. Sorry if you think that’s arrogant. Sorry if you are upset that I dared to bring up that dangers of football on these boards and have an open discussion about it.

So sack up and take a stand on your beliefs finally and provide a case for why Sumlin could still be successful at Arizona . Stop wasting everyone’s time calling me out, socal alums out, etc.

This all being said, we are stuck with Sumlin as zero chance Heeke could even raise the buyout money from alums right now. I recognize that, but still does not change my strong opinion Sumlin has zero chance of success at U of A.

Tatanka · Post by **Tatanka** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:31 pm

Newportcat wrote:Also HaCats, instead of calling me arrogant just respond back with your arguments for why Sumlin can be successful. This is a message board. A place to share ideas. A place to be objective

You thinking I am arrogant is probably because you are not being objective and dislike emotionally what I am saying which is the thing you love, Arizona football, is never going to recepricate that love back. I am like the buddy telling you before you marry the town whore that she is the town whore and you are upset about hearing it and say I’m wrong.

It’s fine, I have been called every name in the book for my opinions on Arizona football. An ASU fan, worthless, piece of shit, and as mentioned even been banned from a website for bringing these ideas up. I have been told I am wrong about recruiting ratings because #okg. I have been told Rich Rod is the next Lute Olson in 2015. I have been told an indoor facility is not needed. I have been told to just shut up and be a fan and not think objectively about Arizona football or even football in general.

But fuck that. I am smart and learned at U of A how to think objectively. I refuse to just believe in something because. I need facts and logic to believe in something. I do not blindly believe in anything. Sorry if you think that’s arrogant. Sorry if you are upset that I dared to bring up that dangers of football on these boards and have an open discussion about it.

So sack up and take a stand on your beliefs finally and provide a case for why Sumlin could still be successful at Arizona . Stop wasting everyone’s time calling me out, socal alums out, etc.

This all being said, we are stuck with Sumlin as zero chance Heeke could even raise the buyout money from alums right now. I recognize that, but still does not change my strong opinion Sumlin has zero chance of success at U of A.

This is the funniest post ever.

Tatanka · Post by **Tatanka** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:33 pm

Nunley is gone to TCU isn’t even an appetizer to what the main course is. Coming soon.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:35 pm

Tatanka wrote:Nunley is gone to TCU isn’t even an appetizer to what the main course is. Coming soon.

Are we supposed to be surprised when Tate leaves? Seems expected at this point.

blackjacker · Post by **blackjacker** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:38 pm

I read somewhere here that every coach since Tomey was a miserable failure. I don't think you can call RR that. 5 out of 6 were winning seasons and he did luck into one 10 win season and a division championship. Following the miserable 3 win season with a winning season and bowl game, even with the glut of bowl games should have been enough to keep his job.

I think what did him in was acting like such a douchebag during the ASU post game press conference.
When the scandal broke, Heeke had his opportunity to get rid of a guy he didn't like. Even though it wasn't "for cause" the firing appeared justified. That worked out pretty well for Heeke.
While I believe RR probably would have taken this team to another winning season, we don't yet know if in the long run, Sumlin elevates the program more than RR would have.

I'm not impressed so far.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:07 am

Tatanka wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Also HaCats, instead of calling me arrogant just respond back with your arguments for why Sumlin can be successful. This is a message board. A place to share ideas. A place to be objective

You thinking I am arrogant is probably because you are not being objective and dislike emotionally what I am saying which is the thing you love, Arizona football, is never going to recepricate that love back. I am like the buddy telling you before you marry the town whore that she is the town whore and you are upset about hearing it and say I’m wrong.

It’s fine, I have been called every name in the book for my opinions on Arizona football. An ASU fan, worthless, piece of shit, and as mentioned even been banned from a website for bringing these ideas up. I have been told I am wrong about recruiting ratings because #okg. I have been told Rich Rod is the next Lute Olson in 2015. I have been told an indoor facility is not needed. I have been told to just shut up and be a fan and not think objectively about Arizona football or even football in general.

But fuck that. I am smart and learned at U of A how to think objectively. I refuse to just believe in something because. I need facts and logic to believe in something. I do not blindly believe in anything. Sorry if you think that’s arrogant. Sorry if you are upset that I dared to bring up that dangers of football on these boards and have an open discussion about it.

So sack up and take a stand on your beliefs finally and provide a case for why Sumlin could still be successful at Arizona . Stop wasting everyone’s time calling me out, socal alums out, etc.

This all being said, we are stuck with Sumlin as zero chance Heeke could even raise the buyout money from alums right now. I recognize that, but still does not change my strong opinion Sumlin has zero chance of success at U of A.
This is the funniest post ever.

Can we please ban this Chief Sock account? I thought Chief was a Former message board genius. Everytime I think of him I feel disapointted for him that coach didn't put him in the 4th quarter...

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:19 am

blackjacker wrote:I read somewhere here that every coach since Tomey was a miserable failure. I don't think you can call RR that. 5 out of 6 were winning seasons and he did luck into one 10 win season and a division championship. Following the miserable 3 win season with a winning season and bowl game, even with the glut of bowl games should have been enough to keep his job.

I think what did him in was acting like such a douchebag during the ASU post game press conference.
When the scandal broke, Heeke had his opportunity to get rid of a guy he didn't like. Even though it wasn't "for cause" the firing appeared justified. That worked out pretty well for Heeke.
While I believe RR probably would have taken this team to another winning season, we don't yet know if in the long run, Sumlin elevates the program more than RR would have.

I'm not impressed so far.

He had a losing PAC 12 record in 4 out of 6 seasons and an overall losing conference record. He also was a massive piece of shit beyond belief that was basically hated by everyone. No love lost when he was fired. I think he knows football but he does not know people and is a terrible recruiter.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:52 am

Newportcat wrote:
blackjacker wrote:I read somewhere here that every coach since Tomey was a miserable failure. I don't think you can call RR that. 5 out of 6 were winning seasons and he did luck into one 10 win season and a division championship. Following the miserable 3 win season with a winning season and bowl game, even with the glut of bowl games should have been enough to keep his job.

I think what did him in was acting like such a douchebag during the ASU post game press conference.
When the scandal broke, Heeke had his opportunity to get rid of a guy he didn't like. Even though it wasn't "for cause" the firing appeared justified. That worked out pretty well for Heeke.
While I believe RR probably would have taken this team to another winning season, we don't yet know if in the long run, Sumlin elevates the program more than RR would have.

I'm not impressed so far.
He had a losing PAC 12 record in 4 out of 6 seasons and an overall losing conference record. He also was a massive piece of shit beyond belief that was basically hated by everyone. No love lost when he was fired. I think he knows football but he does not know people and is a terrible recruiter.

It'd be super interesting to me if you would elaborate, beyond what is widely known, about Rich Rod and what made him such a pos in the eyes of those you refer to. Thanks.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:45 am

Carcassdragger wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
blackjacker wrote:I read somewhere here that every coach since Tomey was a miserable failure. I don't think you can call RR that. 5 out of 6 were winning seasons and he did luck into one 10 win season and a division championship. Following the miserable 3 win season with a winning season and bowl game, even with the glut of bowl games should have been enough to keep his job.

I think what did him in was acting like such a douchebag during the ASU post game press conference.
When the scandal broke, Heeke had his opportunity to get rid of a guy he didn't like. Even though it wasn't "for cause" the firing appeared justified. That worked out pretty well for Heeke.
While I believe RR probably would have taken this team to another winning season, we don't yet know if in the long run, Sumlin elevates the program more than RR would have.

I'm not impressed so far.
He had a losing PAC 12 record in 4 out of 6 seasons and an overall losing conference record. He also was a massive piece of shit beyond belief that was basically hated by everyone. No love lost when he was fired. I think he knows football but he does not know people and is a terrible recruiter.

It'd be super interesting to me if you would elaborate, beyond what is widely known, about Rich Rod and what made him such a pos in the eyes of those you refer to. Thanks.

I saw rich Rod drunk off his ass at opening day of Del Mar a couple years back and he couldn’t really even see straight. That was my first glimpse into him

One of my close friends met a former stud player of ours who said Rich Rod blew him off multiple times when he said he would come back and help the team and couldn’t even remember his name right. This is someone all of us know and will know his name forever.

Rampant drug use on the team that went largely unnoticed or swept under the rug.

Orlando Bradford, just everything about it was so bad from everything I heard

The final straw for me was Zach Hemilla. I heard from multiple people that players and coaches knew he had issues with drugs and Rich Rod did not pursue them hard enough or really care until sadly it was too late

The only thing I ever personally saw was the incident at Del Mar but just never candidly heard anything good about him from anyone I knew. Zero love lost when he was fired from anyone I knew

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:06 pm

RichRod's drinking with Jeff Casteel was well known, at least rumors of it.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:32 pm

yeah I don’t think there is anything I said that no one didn’t already know about Rich Rod but it was all bad from everyone I talked too. I did hear that the most ironic thing was the lawsuit was a lot of BS and that his asssitant was a train wreck. I am not sure if I believed it but what I was told

Also hilarious Chief came back to talk shit but of course doesn’t provide anything of substance. What the fuck is a recruiting consultant anyways

blackjacker · Post by **blackjacker** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:53 pm

Merkin wrote:RichRod's drinking with Jeff Casteel was well known, at least rumors of it.

Don't think we have upgraded in that department with Stumblin Rumlin.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:04 pm

hacats....appreciated your objective response on Sumlin and why he will be successful here

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:29 pm

Ranking the first year coaches. Sumlin ranked 18th out of 20. Herm 8th.

https://collegefootballnews.com/2019/01 ... ew-guys-do" target="_blank

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:24 pm

I think this Sumlin experiment is going to be short. I’m thinking three years.

Losing his best position coaches

Losing his best D Linemen with size

Keeping Yates

Recruiting is better then Rich Rod but still nothing special outside of a couple players

More difficult schedule this coming year

Zero fan support (we are going to see some awful crowds at Arizona stadium this fall)

Challenge is just no money right now in our program. Can’t even buy out Yates for $500k

Anyone know Sumlin’s buyout figure? To lazy to look it up

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:46 pm

Sumlin's buyout is $10M for the first 2 years, $7.5M year 3 and $5M after that I believe.

What coach would get fan support at Arizona right now? It seems like no matter who we hire they would need to prove they could win first.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:39 am

DrWildcat wrote:Sumlin's buyout is $10M for the first 2 years, $7.5M year 3 and $5M after that I believe.

What coach would get fan support at Arizona right now? It seems like no matter who we hire they would need to prove they could win first.

Man, should have been a football coach. Sumlin going to Bilk both A&M and Arizona out of Millions being so average. This just feels like a massive bubble but maybe I am wrong

I disagree and think there are plenty of coaches who would generate fan support at Arizona. Mike Stoops generated great fan support after the worst coach in our programs history.

A good young up and coming coach where the future is unknown to me would generate excitement. Now there might be a buy in phase but think a lot of fans would be excited just like they were under stoops fIrst couple years.

Challenge with Sumlin was he did the exact opposite of everything he needed to do to build fan support by losing at first and then losing to aSU so terribly. If he was a young coach ala Stoops I think fan base would be more forgiving but Sumlin is the anti-excitement coach and I think most fans look at him and think retread.

Again, rule #1 in college athletics at a place like Arizona, always go with young and up coming coaches over coaches who have been fired from better jobs. Doesn’t matter the sport either

Again Heeke and Byrne actually got this right a lot of times, jay johnson, tony amato, augie busch, adia barnes, etc.but both failed miserably for football

Shit Sumlin probably already made $25M from coaching and now is sitting another lottery ticket no matter how he performs. What is his motivation to succeed?

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:37 am

Newportcat wrote:
DrWildcat wrote:Sumlin's buyout is $10M for the first 2 years, $7.5M year 3 and $5M after that I believe.

What coach would get fan support at Arizona right now? It seems like no matter who we hire they would need to prove they could win first.
Man, should have been a football coach. Sumlin going to Bilk both A&M and Arizona out of Millions being so average. This just feels like a massive bubble but maybe I am wrong

I disagree and think there are plenty of coaches who would generate fan support at Arizona. Mike Stoops generated great fan support after the worst coach in our programs history.

A good young up and coming coach where the future is unknown to me would generate excitement. Now there might be a buy in phase but think a lot of fans would be excited just like they were under stoops fIrst couple years.

Challenge with Sumlin was he did the exact opposite of everything he needed to do to build fan support by losing at first and then losing to aSU so terribly. If he was a young coach ala Stoops I think fan base would be more forgiving but Sumlin is the anti-excitement coach and I think most fans look at him and think retread.

Again, rule #1 in college athletics at a place like Arizona, always go with young and up coming coaches over coaches who have been fired from better jobs. Doesn’t matter the sport either

Again Heeke and Byrne actually got this right a lot of times, jay johnson, tony amato, augie busch, adia barnes, etc.but both failed miserably for football

Shit Sumlin probably already made $25M from coaching and now is sitting another lottery ticket no matter how he performs. What is his motivation to succeed?

I agree that coaches buyout's are getting ridiculous. Especially when you start looking at these fully guaranteed contracts like Jimbo, Dabo etc. Granted those guys are national championship coaches but can you imagine if Texas A&M wanted to get rid of Jimbo in a few years (not entirely unlikely as he was becoming sour at FSU) but still owed him something like $50M? They have a lot more money but still that is a ton of wasted cash. Questions about coaches motivation can still be asked when they have that amount of guaranteed money. You just need to get the guy that hates to fail even though most coaches will.

Stoops got support but it was a different time. There was still support for college football on the west coast 10 years ago. Blind support for mediocre programs just isn't there anymore. I also wonder if it being somewhat close to the Tomey days with the thought of just having hired the wrong coach (Mackovic) in between helped. Almost like we were good once and we can do it again. Also, the Stoops name was big which gave him added credibility. Weird (or maybe not because he was at UA) that Mike is the only Stoops so far to fail as a head coach.

Maybe the young up and comer is the way to go but there is no guarantee there either. The only known is they're likely cheaper and that could be the most important thing. Do you think a hire like Beau Baldwin, supposedly a candidate, would have really created excitement within the fan base? To the common fan, the reaction would have been who?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:10 am

Newportcat wrote:
DrWildcat wrote:Sumlin's buyout is $10M for the first 2 years, $7.5M year 3 and $5M after that I believe.

What coach would get fan support at Arizona right now? It seems like no matter who we hire they would need to prove they could win first.
Man, should have been a football coach. Sumlin going to Bilk both A&M and Arizona out of Millions being so average. This just feels like a massive bubble but maybe I am wrong

It's almost as if hiring a young hungry cheap up and comer would've been the more cost effective strategy for Arizona than hiring the retread, but alas....

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:24 am

DrWildcat wrote: Again, rule #1 in college athletics at a place like Arizona, always go with young and up coming coaches over coaches who have been fired from better jobs. Doesn’t matter the sport either

Has worked out well for the basketball and other programs. Lute (Iowa St) and Miller (Xavier) are proof of that.

1. Must have head coach experience (No more Mike Stoops)
2. Must have never been fired as head coach (RichRod, Mackovic, Sumlin)

Even worked out well with the football program when I was a student. Larry Smith from Tulane, and Dick Tomey from Hawaii.

Some exceptions though in the minor sports, don't think Adia Barnes was ever head coach.

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:22 am

Merkin wrote: Has worked out well for the basketball and other programs. Lute (Iowa St) and Miller (Xavier) are proof of that.

1. Must have head coach experience (No more Mike Stoops)
2. Must have never been fired as head coach (RichRod, Mackovic, Sumlin)

Even worked out well with the football program when I was a student. Larry Smith from Tulane, and Dick Tomey from Hawaii.

Some exceptions though in the minor sports, don't think Adia Barnes was ever head coach.

Lute already had a final four before coming to Arizona and came from another major conference. It would be very tough for Arizona football to pull away anyone from a P5 head coaching job and impossible for us to get a coach with a football final four equivalent resume. Miller was considered a very good coach at a good program but Arizona is a step up from Xavier. Arizona football would not be a step up over the Xavier football equivalent (i.e. Boise St, UCF, others?). Therefore, we have to go after less proven head coaches or coordinators. Maybe that works out and maybe it doesn't.

It feels like this discussion is more about money and less about who the coach is. If we are so strapped for cash because of the Sumlin hire then maybe Heeke is the one who needs to go for mismanaging the athletic budget.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:46 am

I think one of the problems with hiring the up and comer is you become "that kind of school". When we hired Stoops he was "the" coordinator of choice. To me once you go down the path of hiring the unknown assistant you have then sent a message about where you are in the college football world.

Not saying that this move would not have been an upgrade over RR or Mr. Excitement but I am still willing to give ME a few more years to see what he does. Not long ago he was that up and comer at Houston

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:55 pm

Merkin wrote:
DrWildcat wrote: Again, rule #1 in college athletics at a place like Arizona, always go with young and up coming coaches over coaches who have been fired from better jobs. Doesn’t matter the sport either
Has worked out well for the basketball and other programs. Lute (Iowa St) and Miller (Xavier) are proof of that.

1. Must have head coach experience (No more Mike Stoops)
2. Must have never been fired as head coach (RichRod, Mackovic, Sumlin)

Even worked out well with the football program when I was a student. Larry Smith from Tulane, and Dick Tomey from Hawaii.

Some exceptions though in the minor sports, don't think Adia Barnes was ever head coach.

Very true. Worked out well for Utah when they hired urban Meyer from bowling green. Go get a hungry young head coach from a lessor division who wants to go achieve big things. Arizona has shown we will pay a coach to stay if they are good too.

I am maybe ok hiring an assistant from somewhere if they are known as a fantastic recruiter like adia was known as. It’s arizona football, playing to safe has never worked out well. Got to take massive risks

While I hope germ Edwards fails, ultimately it was an out of the box hire I admire. I actually think it could work out very well

Zero chance Sumlin works. He has already lost the fan base and once that is gone, time to move on. So difficult to ever get back. I mean would anyone want to keep him if he didn’t have a buyout?

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:49 pm

Good God dude. It's been one season. I think he's going to work out well.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:37 pm

Why do you think it’s going to work out well?

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:06 pm

He's won almost twice as many games as he's lost. He's a two time Conference USA coach of the year and a one time SEC coach of the year. He's coached a Heisman trophy winner (a freshmen). Recruiting looks better.

But I think the thing that makes me the most optimistic was a very good analysis that Winger posted on a different site and was subsequently put somewhere here.

One thing is for sure. It's too early to be condemning him.

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