Sean Miller

[azgreg]

Ok, well I thought Mick Cronin was.

Hi Infidelity was a great album...

I was always more partial to "You Can Tune A Piano But You Can't Tunafish"

What's the difference between meat and fish?

If you beat your fish it will die.

[dovecanyoncat]

What's does a ham omelette tell us about the difference between involvement and commitment? The chicken is involved but the pig is committed.

[CalStateTempe]

Lmao. Is that a mike leach-ism dove?

[Chicat]

All I know is that you’re all dreamin’ about Gorgonzola when it’s clearly Brie time, baby...

[azgreg]

All I know is that you’re all dreamin’ about Gorgonzola when it’s clearly Brie time, baby...

Nothing wrong with Brie.

[Chicat]

Like I said, clearly Brie time baby...

[YoDeFoe]

What's does a ham omelette tell us about the difference between involvement and commitment? The chicken is involved but the pig is committed.

Gold

[PieceOfMeat]

Any truth to the rumor he blamed his heartburn on both the staff and diners?

Yeah he did, but you can't blame him, it was just a reflux.

[YoDeFoe]

Any truth to the rumor he blamed his heartburn on both the staff and diners?

Yeah he did, but you can't blame him, it was just a reflux.

Nooooooo

[dovecanyoncat]

Lmao. Is that a mike leach-ism dove?

I dunno fer Mike Leach. I heard it from one of my Ashkenazi buds.

[Chicat]

Any truth to the rumor he blamed his heartburn on both the staff and diners?

Yeah he did, but you can't blame him, it was just a reflux.

Oh dear lord....

[RaisingArizona]

It's the well known secret bromance handshake with both participants keeping their left hands in their pants pockets while clasping tightly with their right hands.

I wonder if Sean Miller knows how to do a stink palm. If not we need to get him a copy of Mallrats before the start of conference play.

[EVCat]

Ok, well I thought Mick Cronin was.

Hi Infidelity was a great album...

I was always more partial to "You Can Tune A Piano But You Can't Tunafish"

Props.

I wondered if I was being a little too random in my pop culture reference there...

[Newportcat]

Wow, just caught up on this thread, it is now very clear to me that

[RiseAndFire]

Did Miller lose the team after Alabama with his 20-min postgame locker room tirade? To enjoy a full week solid of practice and then lay an egg like that is remarkable.

Players notice what coaches say to the media after losses. You can’t continually blame lack of “effort” and “toughness” (Player’s fault!) without occasionally shouldering some responsibility . Something like “my offensive approach is ineffective, boring - an insult to the game of basketball ” would work!

[Chicat]

In case you ever want to be honest with this community...

“my posting approach is ineffective, boring - an insult to the game of basketball ”

[zonagrad]

Did Miller lose the team after Alabama with his 20-min postgame locker room tirade? To enjoy a full week solid of practice and then lay an egg like that is remarkable.

Players notice what coaches say to the media after losses. You can’t continually blame lack of “effort” and “toughness” (Player’s fault!) without occasionally shouldering some responsibility . Something like “my offensive approach is ineffective, boring - an insult to the game of basketball ” would work!

You never disappoint. Ever. As sure as the sun rises in the East.

[Captain Obvious]

Did Miller lose the team after Alabama with his 20-min postgame locker room tirade? To enjoy a full week solid of practice and then lay an egg like that is remarkable.

Players notice what coaches say to the media after losses. You can’t continually blame lack of “effort” and “toughness” (Player’s fault!) without occasionally shouldering some responsibility . Something like “my offensive approach is ineffective, boring - an insult to the game of basketball ” would work!

I actually pondered the same thing. To play so terribly after the Alabama loss was inexcusable. I miss the days of Lute where our offense had fluidity and turned teams over resulting in transition baskets. Some people criticized Lute for not emphasizing defense enough. Interesting since fast break points in Miller's system are so rare it's shocking when they actually happen. As it is grinding out every offensive possession ad nauseum is not fun to watch and ineffective. MIller's offense is comparable to trying to drive a square peg in a round hole. It almost feels like a chore to watch Arizona basketball in its current state. Because of that many people are losing or already lost interest.

[97cats]

thru 500 games

375-125

.750 career winning perecentage

50 years old

[Beachcat97]

thru 500 games

375-125

.750 career winning perecentage

50 years old

97, do you happen to know how this compares to, say, Lute? How about other greats? K? Williams? Wright? Izzo?

[AZCatGirl]

thru 500 games

375-125

.750 career winning perecentage

50 years old

97, do you happen to know how this compares to, say, Lute? How about other greats? K? Williams? Wright? Izzo?

You need to click on the picture to see Lute's record.

[Beachcat97]

That's remarkable. Sean is going to take a lot of flak this year, and maybe rightfully so.

But the guy's record is undeniable. He's a very good coach, and I hope he stays at AZ for many more years.

[PHXCATS]

That's remarkable. Sean is going to take a lot of flak this year, and maybe rightfully so.

But the guy's record is undeniable. He's a very good coach, and I hope he stays at AZ for many more years.

Some of it is on him (not firing Book years ago when he should have) and some of it is because of MSPN

[Chicat]

That's remarkable. Sean is going to take a lot of flak this year, and maybe rightfully so.

But the guy's record is undeniable. He's a very good coach, and I hope he stays at AZ for many more years.

Some of it is on him (not firing Book years ago when he should have) and some of it is because of MSPN

Some of it is “fans” flat out making shit up about him.

[Beachcat97]

That's remarkable. Sean is going to take a lot of flak this year, and maybe rightfully so.

But the guy's record is undeniable. He's a very good coach, and I hope he stays at AZ for many more years.

Some of it is on him (not firing Book years ago when he should have) and some of it is because of MSPN

I hope one day we will find out from Sean exactly what he did/didn't know about Book's conduct/activities. Sean just strikes me as such a stand-up guy, a high-character, high-integrity person. And who knows, maybe that's just my own perception, driven by a desire to have AZ hoops succeed ethically.

I do think that there's been an obvious smear job underway for quite some time, though. There are some powerful media figures who want to see Sean Miller fall from grace, and AZ along with him. The fact that Sean has continued to bring in clusters of elite talent virtually every year he's been at AZ tells me that his perception among the families of actual players is different from the one ESPN has labored to sustain. People like Sean Miller. Period. That's not an illusion.

[PHXCATS]

That's remarkable. Sean is going to take a lot of flak this year, and maybe rightfully so.

But the guy's record is undeniable. He's a very good coach, and I hope he stays at AZ for many more years.

Some of it is on him (not firing Book years ago when he should have) and some of it is because of MSPN

I hope one day we will find out from Sean exactly what he did/didn't know about Book's conduct/activities. Sean just strikes me as such a stand-up guy, a high-character, high-integrity person. And who knows, maybe that's just my own perception, driven by a desire to have AZ hoops succeed ethically.

I do think that there's been an obvious smear job underway for quite some time, though. There are some powerful media figures who want to see Sean Miller fall from grace, and AZ along with him. The fact that Sean has continued to bring in clusters of elite talent virtually every year he's been at AZ tells me that his perception among the families of actual players is different from the one ESPN has labored to sustain. People like Sean Miller. Period. That's not an illusion.

Again look at the facts. MSPN fucked up big time but there was no intentional smear job on Miller by them. Look at the facts. Think about them logically. You will have your answers

[Chicat]

MSPN fucked up big time but there was no intentional smear job on Miller by them.

If anyone would know anything about intentional smear jobs, it would be the guy who made up a total lie about Miller blaming the fans for a loss.

How are you even still posting in this thread? I mean, if I got caught making up a slanderous lie about Sean Miller I’d slink off like the lying worm I just proved myself to be, but you do you Machina.

[Newportcat]

These are so awesome by the way. About 10000000 times better then watching a video of Rich Rod in a skirt telling "Are you not entertained". Miller knows his stuff and knows his players.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Was at the game tonight, not sure how much more of this I can take. Sean's offense is just miserable, nearly unwatchable. 10 years, no Final Fours. For me, next year's class is his make or break class. 2 years he gets with them, if he gets another round of talent yet doesn't do anything with it yet again, I'm done. Went to Baylor and Oregon game this year, never thought I'd be so bored at McKale.

[CalStateTempe]

Do what we do.

[Postmaster]

So it was your fault we lost those games?

[U.P. Zona Fan]

catsby, you can send me Saturdays tickets, never been to a game they lost.

[Newportcat]

Was at the game tonight, not sure how much more of this I can take. Sean's offense is just miserable, nearly unwatchable. 10 years, no Final Fours. For me, next year's class is his make or break class. 2 years he gets with them, if he gets another round of talent yet doesn't do anything with it yet again, I'm done. Went to Baylor and Oregon game this year, never thought I'd be so bored at McKale.

I get it as that game was miserable to watch on TV. I really hope things change with the incoming talent but this is definitely the least interested I have been in an Arizona basketball team ever and partly due to they are painful sometimes to watch. Just not entertaining. They do play hard but just lack talent.

And for some reason, we struggle still against zones

Can someone who understands basketball to me explain why? I watch those videos of Miller and he seems like he is such a good teacher who comes across as someone who really understands basketball. I will admit that I think its interesting that on his Game tape video breakdowns he focuses mainly on defense with the players I feel like.

[ChooChooCat]

And for some reason, we struggle still against zones

Can someone who understands basketball to me explain why? I watch those videos of Miller and he seems like he is such a good teacher who comes across as someone who really understands basketball. I will admit that I think its interesting that on his Game tape video breakdowns he focuses mainly on defense with the players I feel like.

Two ways to beat a zone:

1. Outshoot it (we shoot 33% from 3 as a team)
2. Have a guy you can trust be in the middle of zones and act as the playmaker

So if 1 isn't happening for you then you're really short on options, because there's no #2 on this team.

[Longhorned]

And for some reason, we struggle still against zones

Can someone who understands basketball to me explain why? I watch those videos of Miller and he seems like he is such a good teacher who comes across as someone who really understands basketball. I will admit that I think its interesting that on his Game tape video breakdowns he focuses mainly on defense with the players I feel like.

Two ways to beat a zone:

1. Outshoot it (we shoot 33% from 3 as a team)
2. Have a guy you can trust be in the middle of zones and act as the playmaker

So if 1 isn't happening for you then you're really short on options, because there's no #2 on this team.

This team is a Swiss Army knife that the factory failed to put any pieces inside except a spoon.

[Spaceman Spiff]

And for some reason, we struggle still against zones

Can someone who understands basketball to me explain why? I watch those videos of Miller and he seems like he is such a good teacher who comes across as someone who really understands basketball. I will admit that I think its interesting that on his Game tape video breakdowns he focuses mainly on defense with the players I feel like.

Two ways to beat a zone:

1. Outshoot it (we shoot 33% from 3 as a team)
2. Have a guy you can trust be in the middle of zones and act as the playmaker

So if 1 isn't happening for you then you're really short on options, because there's no #2 on this team.

We also have minimal ability to penetrate. Randolph can get to the rim, but only for himself. Williams shows signs, but is a freshman and inconsistent. Zero other penetrators.

Half decent teams, you have to be able to take at least some of what the D gives you. Teams are giving us 3's right now, and we don't have enough individual talent to dictate to them.

So, we rise and fall with shooting. I don't put a ton of it on Miller because I can't see what another coach could realistically do differently. There isn't a magical zone beating system.

[EVCat]

We were getting looks. How many times did we have either an open shot or Jeter on the block? But our open looks near the rim are almost always either post entry or dribble drive with the driver in a position where they HAVE to shoot...we have very little drive to break down the defense with players who are equipped to drop the ball to a cutter when they get in trouble. Like Dylan's blocked shot...OK, dude blocked it...but he was 7 feet out, pushed away from the rim, trying to throw up a left handed prayer, and the ball slipped out of his hands and was rolling down to his wrist...he wasn't getting that up. We get a lot of that...if the driver cannot get to the rim clean, they have no ability to create off that drive.

Problem is, they were long and quick. They turned us over, made it hard for our smaller guys to advance the ball and get into the offense, then dropped to zone with time removed from the shot clock. So we were sped up.

But even then, we got the ball to Jeter. Problem is, and we have known this...Jeter has footwork for days but can't jump over a deck of cards. Against long, athletic defenders, and with long, athletic help defense swarming...he kept either getting blocked or rushing altered shots. We missed a lot at the rim, and it was largely Oregon's defense.

And when we did get the ball in then kick out, which is a great way to beat a zone if you get it to collapse on initial penetration or post action...we just fkn missed open shots.

You have to credit Oregon's D, but also realize we have some serious deficiencies in having a killer scorer that you know can get you some points when you need it. Curse Trier all we want (some), but we need a Trier. Randolph has not been that, and Jeter will always be effective on the block against big dudes and smaller posts, but long and tall and athletic will bug him for days.

Also remember Miller is trying to get cohesiveness out of a bag of misfit parts. 1st year PG, 1st UA playing year C, 1st year PF...and that guy is the one who is most lost. Luther is just not effective off the ball. He's been the big hole here, IMO.

We have a thrown together team with an (another) undersized PG who can have problems against length that is athletic, a freshman combo guard, a guy we cannot rely upon to be a killer (BR), a genius footwork former 5 star center who takes a lot of time to load up and can be read by a shot blocker, and a real question at PF.

This whole thing could have fallen apart completely by now. We have won some games this year by sheer will and drive. I don't doubt most of this team's effort. But there is little long-term for a lot of them, and they are all learning a new system with a new coach and are rolling out there undersized, not cohesive, and deficient in some areas.

I really don't think this is on Miller and his offenses. This team needs to grind to get open shots. And when they get them, they HAVE to make some to win. They didn't last night.

[Newportcat]

I appreciate the insights guys. I played Water Polo growing up and while I have watched a lot of basketball, I am not an expert. But a lot of what I thought were issues seem to be the actual issues.

At the end of the day, this team is just not that talented and Miller is doing everything he can to make them competitive. They do play hard which I like to see.

If this is the worst year after the bombs that were dropped on our program in 2017 and 2018, I can live with it just fine.

[PieceOfMeat]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

[DrWildcat]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

Probably because he recruits at such a high level and a general uncertainty in knowing what could happen without him. It also seems like people are more willing to place the blame on the players in basketball for taking bad shots, missing shots etc. I'll chalk this year as a throwaway year, but I think the tides are starting to turn and in the coming years it will be time to produce.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

A pass? People constantly complain about his coaching, even on issues they don't understand. What more can fans do?

Miller has regularly produced top 20 offenses and defenses and people act like he doesn't know what he's doing because his strategies don't work 100% of the time and/or players execute poorly.

We're all mad at 4-1 in the Pac and Oregon beat us. Oregon is 2-2 in the Pac. We would have beaten them if we make a normal percentage of 3's. I don't think a strategy that gets a W if you shoot average % is all that bad.

People complained Miller had big, immobile lineups. This year, we play smaller and people complain we don't rebound as well. If anything, Miller doesn't get enough of a pass.

[Longhorned]

I don't give Miller a pass. I hope Miller doesn't give Miller a pass. It generally takes a long time for coaches to break through, Miller is young, and a lot of fans don't want Arizona and Miller to be separate from one another when he breaks through. But this is Arizona, and breaking through to the Final Four needs to happen, and time is running out. If next year's team can't break a zone, and a lesser team runs circles around them in the shallow rounds of the tourney, then the pattern of limitations will have become unsustainable.

[EVCat]

We knew what this year was going to be. It was done to us.

The only year I look at as a total disappointment was last year. The team that lost to Wichita State was another thrown together team after one and dones. Three elite eights in 5 years, in the 2nd, 5th and 6th year of his program, showed he could recruit and coach. The 2011 one was beyond expectations, the 2014 one was a 1 seed that had lost a starter to injury when undefeated at 22-0 or so, and the 2015 team was one that played exactly to seed, losing as a 2 seed against a 1.

Last year's craziness caused a problem. What happens with the teams out of the next two classes will determine whether Miller grows as a coach (like Lute...be real about is first 8 to 10 years) or we realize we are a team that hangs around the Sweet 16 range with up and down of a game or so in certain years.

But I really don't get the "Miller must go" people. At all...

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't give Miller a pass. I hope Miller doesn't give Miller a pass. It generally takes a long time for coaches to break through, Miller is young, and a lot of fans don't want Arizona and Miller to be separate from one another when he breaks through. But this is Arizona, and breaking through to the Final Four needs to happen, and time is running out. If next year's team can't break a zone, and a lesser team runs circles around them in the shallow rounds of the tourney, then the pattern of limitations will have become unsustainable.

I could not disagree more that time is running out.

Everyone thought this team would be weak. Local media mentioned 0-18 in Pac. Now we're mad because we aren't dominant?

Pulling a top 5 class out of the FBI debacle is a borderline miracle. A replacement for Miller isn't doing that.

We sort of deserve to be UCLA if we ignore the good Miller does. Look at that program and how often they hire blah coaches, and we assume we'll automatically do better.

Coaches are not perfect, but every potential Milller replacement is..until he's here. Then, we'll have our very own Steve Alford. Alford is such a great comparison point for Miller. For people who think Miller has coaching limitations, Alford/Miller recruited pretty similar. Who got more results?

[SCCats]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

Probably because he recruits at such a high level and a general uncertainty in knowing what could happen without him.

There are different ways to recruit. And I mean different than reflexively taking any 15-35 ranked recruit that wants to come your way.

And other programs have shown success with these different ways to recruit.

[StickItInTheyFace]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

Probably because he recruits at such a high level and a general uncertainty in knowing what could happen without him.

There are different ways to recruit. And I mean different than reflexively taking any 15-35 ranked recruit that wants to come your way.

And other programs have shown success with these different ways to recruit.

There is no program in the country who is turning down consensus 5/high 4 star players, even if they don't match their scheme or needs. Those teams might be more successful with lesser recruits, but the reality is everyone is hoping to bring in players of that caliber.

[84Cat]

I don't give Miller a pass. I hope Miller doesn't give Miller a pass. It generally takes a long time for coaches to break through, Miller is young, and a lot of fans don't want Arizona and Miller to be separate from one another when he breaks through. But this is Arizona, and breaking through to the Final Four needs to happen, and time is running out. If next year's team can't break a zone, and a lesser team runs circles around them in the shallow rounds of the tourney, then the pattern of limitations will have become unsustainable.

I could not disagree more that time is running out.

Everyone thought this team would be weak. Local media mentioned 0-18 in Pac. Now we're mad because we aren't dominant?

Pulling a top 5 class out of the FBI debacle is a borderline miracle. A replacement for Miller isn't doing that.

We sort of deserve to be UCLA if we ignore the good Miller does. Look at that program and how often they hire blah coaches, and we assume we'll automatically do better.

Coaches are not perfect, but every potential Milller replacement is..until he's here. Then, we'll have our very own Steve Alford. Alford is such a great comparison point for Miller. For people who think Miller has coaching limitations, Alford/Miller recruited pretty similar. Who got more results?

Yep, not too many coaches out there that would do better than Sean has done at Arizona. I am old enough to remember the Lute days and there were many ups and downs. I do hope that Miller matures as a coach and is more open to different approaches. He still has my full support at this time

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

Probably because he recruits at such a high level and a general uncertainty in knowing what could happen without him.

There are different ways to recruit. And I mean different than reflexively taking any 15-35 ranked recruit that wants to come your way.

And other programs have shown success with these different ways to recruit.

There is no program in the country who is turning down consensus 5/high 4 star players, even if they don't match their scheme or needs. Those teams might be more successful with lesser recruits, but the reality is everyone is hoping to bring in players of that caliber.

Hoping to bring in, paying $100,000 or so, all that stuff.

Look at everyone who decommitted from us. Quinerly went to the defending national champs. Williams was recruited by Zaga and Oregon. O'Neal, to UCLA. Little, to North Carolina.

Those are all FF, NC level programs. I also have beef with the idea that the guys we get are somehow flawed and don't fit in good systems.

[Longhorned]

I don't give Miller a pass. I hope Miller doesn't give Miller a pass. It generally takes a long time for coaches to break through, Miller is young, and a lot of fans don't want Arizona and Miller to be separate from one another when he breaks through. But this is Arizona, and breaking through to the Final Four needs to happen, and time is running out. If next year's team can't break a zone, and a lesser team runs circles around them in the shallow rounds of the tourney, then the pattern of limitations will have become unsustainable.

I could not disagree more that time is running out.

Everyone thought this team would be weak. Local media mentioned 0-18 in Pac. Now we're mad because we aren't dominant?

Pulling a top 5 class out of the FBI debacle is a borderline miracle. A replacement for Miller isn't doing that.

We sort of deserve to be UCLA if we ignore the good Miller does. Look at that program and how often they hire blah coaches, and we assume we'll automatically do better.

Coaches are not perfect, but every potential Milller replacement is..until he's here. Then, we'll have our very own Steve Alford. Alford is such a great comparison point for Miller. For people who think Miller has coaching limitations, Alford/Miller recruited pretty similar. Who got more results?

Yeah, this year's team has no bearing on Miller's trajectory. I have no disagreement on that. What I'm saying is that time is running out when it comes to a true deep tourney run. Hell, time is running out, period. How long can any head coach be expected to stay with a single program nowadays? And Arizona fans share something in common with college basketball fans more generally (not including me): A disproportionate emphasis on Final Fours and national titles. It's central to college basketball, regardless of any arguments for the greater importance of consistent winning and success in all the other parts of the equation.

[Newportcat]

I'm a bit amazed at the way AZ fans continue to give Miller a pass year after year after year after year for problems that have now been persistent over a decade of coaching.

I think the risks of getting rid of Miller far outweigh the rewards at this time and its not even close. Remember this is coming from someone who would strongly advocate for firing Sumlin asap if his buyout was small.