Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[Lando05]

Newport: Hey Mannion doesn't need any money to come here. His parents are well off and I don't think they are the kind of people that would take money. I have some connections that are close to the family. Do I think we compete with other teams for recruits like KU and UK in the same well hell yes. Not every top recruit is gonna take money though. Just my two cents.

[Chicat]

If I am being honest, my gut tells me we paid all these recruits very well

Your gut is wrong. And your gut is being pretty insulting to most of these kids and families, and the Arizona coaches.

I think people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how money works in recruiting at a place like Arizona. Cash does not get handed from a coach to a player or a player’s mom or dad. Instead, shoe company runners and sports agent associates who have been around these kids for years advise them to go to certain prominent schools. If those kids or their parents need money or anything, it’s those runners or their AAU coaches who help, sometimes in exchange for a promise they will go to a school like Arizona. And if the family asks for a direct payout, that’s where it comes from.

Yes, Arizona coaches coordinate with these shoe runners, agents, and AAU coaches. And they give these guys access to the program and their connections in order to secure these kids. They might even have knowledge of payouts, but they aren’t cutting checks to anyone or delivering bags full of cash.

Once the kids are on campus, boosters often help out where needed. For instance, a job or car or house rental for parents so they don’t have to struggle, and some money or plane tickets so they can see their kids play. And if the kids need some extra walking around money or a car to use, the boosters can provide.

Nothing in the scenario I put forth above would indicate that “we paid these kids very well”. Frankly, I think that’s a pretty ugly accusation. If I am being honest....

[ChooChooCat]

Lots of good points here and I think Heeke sucks but will say this, if he was smart which seems to be a massive if, I would at least have a casual call with Luke to gauge if there is any interest in coming back to Tucson. Probably low but I think it’s highly likely he is fired and not even sure he wants to coach LAbron or under Magic anymore.

I have no insight into this and I know money is a massive issue for us, but Luke is the one coach who could keep the recruiting class together and all alums would back.

If it was guaranteed we could get Luke, I would fire Miller. Actually in a heart beat

If not, we are stuck with him and he is stuck with us.

Moving from manhattan beach to Tucson would be a tough pill to swallow

But it’s the only alternative option I see where it’s better for the program and maybe just ever so slightly possible

Why would hiring Luke keep the recruiting class together? The guys accomplishments as a head coach are slim to none plus he has zero ties to any of our commits. Hiring Steve Kerr or an actual big coaching name sure, but hiring Lebron's scapegoat? Yeah, no.

If I am being honest, my gut tells me we paid all these recruits very well and they are sticking with us due to that more then anything. Luke is a known brand and I think would sell well to them. I do not see a situation where these kids are not getting paid to take the risk to sign with Arizona. In fact I see the opposite. Just me, have no insider knowledge but always seemed fishy to me we would land these types of players with everything going on with us without paying them really well. I also have zero issue with it and if we did it, thank whoever stepped up to make it happen as its smart. We needed a strong recruiting class.

Then I look at Luke and see a personable guy who is a famous alum who played in the league way longer then he ever should have. I do think he is a good coach as the Lakers took a big step forward from his first year to his second year. Now this year has been a challenge but they were playing well before Lebron got hurt and its basically a lose lose situation for him. I love Labron but he is not listening to any coach so needs a hack.

I candidly would love this hire. To me it seems like a perfect fit. Wife is from Tucson with her family there, he gets to become a god again in Tucson, and is not subjected to coaching in some random NBA city. He could have a long career at U of A too.

Again, could be a pipe dream but if the Lakers do fire him, I really think we should at least ask him if he has interest. At least to me, he checks all the boxes

Dude, Arizona couldn't afford to pursue shady recruitments after what just went down, so no Nike nor especially Arizona are paying these guys to come to Arizona, and even if Nike was paying these guys they'd just choose the 2nd top Nike school on their list if Sean Miller was not our head coach. I like you Newport, but you're just way out your element here brother.

As far as hiring Luke goes I'd despise it. I loathe alum hires, because it signifies you can't hire anybody better. Now if the top guy on the market happens to be an alum then that's absolutely perfect, but that's so ridiculously rare in this business. We all love Luke, but there's nothing on his resume that says he will be a successful NCAA head coach. It's a total different world from NBA coaching for one and for two at the moment his only major bullet on his resume is being Kerr's assistant during the Warriors run and now his most recent bullet is being Lebron's scapegoat. I don't see a no brainer upside in hiring Luke. If we did make that move it'd be because we literally couldn't get any one better.

[pc in NM]

Lots of good points here and I think Heeke sucks but will say this, if he was smart which seems to be a massive if, I would at least have a casual call with Luke to gauge if there is any interest in coming back to Tucson. Probably low but I think it’s highly likely he is fired and not even sure he wants to coach LAbron or under Magic anymore.

I have no insight into this and I know money is a massive issue for us, but Luke is the one coach who could keep the recruiting class together and all alums would back.

If it was guaranteed we could get Luke, I would fire Miller. Actually in a heart beat

If not, we are stuck with him and he is stuck with us.

Moving from manhattan beach to Tucson would be a tough pill to swallow

But it’s the only alternative option I see where it’s better for the program and maybe just ever so slightly possible

Why would hiring Luke keep the recruiting class together? The guys accomplishments as a head coach are slim to none plus he has zero ties to any of our commits. Hiring Steve Kerr or an actual big coaching name sure, but hiring Lebron's scapegoat? Yeah, no.

If I am being honest, my gut tells me we paid all these recruits very well and they are sticking with us due to that more then anything. Luke is a known brand and I think would sell well to them. I do not see a situation where these kids are not getting paid to take the risk to sign with Arizona. In fact I see the opposite. Just me, have no insider knowledge but always seemed fishy to me we would land these types of players with everything going on with us without paying them really well. I also have zero issue with it and if we did it, thank whoever stepped up to make it happen as its smart. We needed a strong recruiting class.

Then I look at Luke and see a personable guy who is a famous alum who played in the league way longer then he ever should have. I do think he is a good coach as the Lakers took a big step forward from his first year to his second year. Now this year has been a challenge but they were playing well before Lebron got hurt and its basically a lose lose situation for him. I love Labron but he is not listening to any coach so needs a hack.

I candidly would love this hire. To me it seems like a perfect fit. Wife is from Tucson with her family there, he gets to become a god again in Tucson, and is not subjected to coaching in some random NBA city. He could have a long career at U of A too.

Again, could be a pipe dream but if the Lakers do fire him, I really think we should at least ask him if he has interest. At least to me, he checks all the boxes

Dude, Arizona couldn't afford to pursue shady recruitments after what just went down, so no Nike nor especially Arizona are paying these guys to come to Arizona, and even if Nike was paying these guys they'd just choose the 2nd top Nike school on their list if Sean Miller was not our head coach. I like you Newport, but you're just way out your element here brother.

As far as hiring Luke goes I'd despise it. I loathe alum hires, because it signifies you can't hire anybody better. Now if the top guy on the market happens to be an alum then that's absolutely perfect, but that's so ridiculously rare in this business. We all love Luke, but there's nothing on his resume that says he will be a successful NCAA head coach. It's a total different world from NBA coaching for one and for two at the moment his only major bullet on his resume is being Kerr's assistant during the Warriors run and now his most recent bullet is being Lebron's scapegoat. I don't see a no brainer upside in hiring Luke. If we did make that move it'd be because we literally couldn't get any one better.

Thank you for these comments on both counts.

There's no room to even consider "shady recruitment", and no fan should countenance the idea....

Hiring an alum would be a throwback to UCLA hiring Farmer and then Hazzard after running off two excellent coaches, and then having their own cheater (Brown)....

[Beachcat97]

Luke would be a fantastic hire, imo. I think the idea that hiring Luke means “we couldn’t get someone better” is silly.

Luke would connect well with college-age players. He’s already logged some nice coaching experiences at the college and pro levels. And he’s someone who understands this program’s legacy and expectations.

Having said all that, ain’t no way we’re hiring Luke, lol.

[ChooChooCat]

Luke would connect well with college-age players. He’s already logged some nice coaching experiences at the college and pro levels. And he’s someone who understands this program’s legacy and expectations.

At the college level? He coached for like 2 months at Memphis during the NBA lockout. That's the extent of his college coaching career and yeah he didn't recruit.

[Chicat]

Isn’t every hire because you can’t get anyone better?

I mean, if you could get someone better . . . you’d hire them, right?

[Newportcat]

I disagree

I also think Luke would be a great alternative as our coach and would be able to be able to keep this class together

I see no way how this current situation plays out well. Clear Heeke and Miller hate each other and zero chance Robbins is going to push to fire Heeke right now after Heeke is trying to show he is following the rules. How bad a look would that be

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.

I see no future with Miller. Now I would not fire him for a shitty coach but I don’t just see Luke as a token alum hire. I think he has a ton of potential

But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

I could be totally wrong on overpaying for our current recruits but still fee like Luke could keep them together if he was interested in the job. He would have a good sales pitch given his NBA experience. And Chi you are wrong on some ways on how things really work in recruiting

I just see now long term future with miller at all anymore

[Newportcat]

Luke would connect well with college-age players. He’s already logged some nice coaching experiences at the college and pro levels. And he’s someone who understands this program’s legacy and expectations.

At the college level? He coached for like 2 months at Memphis during the NBA lockout. That's the extent of his college coaching career and yeah he didn't recruit.

Miller has zero connections on the west coast, had never recruited top talent and came to Arizona and recruited really well especially west coast kids almost right away...a bit interesting in hindsight

Luke has a far bigger name then Miller had on the west coast now

Look maybe he would not want the job, I have no idea, but he would be a good alternative

[ByJoveByJingle]

If we hire Luke, maybe ESPN will show editorial discretion for the first time ever and stop sending Bill to broadcast our games. Just a thought . . .

[pc in NM]

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.
....
But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

Maybe I'm just a naive old fool, but I just can't relate to this.

"We all knew Book was selling info to Ace." - that's unsavory, and crappy, but in no way a violation of any NCAA standards....

I'm just curious how many here affirm that "our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them"???

[Beachcat97]

Another way to think of it: Luke Walton would immediately be the most well known, most distinguished coach in the Pac. NBA champ as player and coach. Pac champ. FF as player in ‘01. Say what you will about his coaching resume, but he’s a bigger name right now than Altman, Hurley, et al.

This is all to say that Luke would absolutely kill it recruiting-wise. You put a guy like that at a program like AZ, and the elite players will arrive in even greater numbers.

[RawleArenas]

I disagree

I also think Luke would be a great alternative as our coach and would be able to be able to keep this class together

I see no way how this current situation plays out well. Clear Heeke and Miller hate each other and zero chance Robbins is going to push to fire Heeke right now after Heeke is trying to show he is following the rules. How bad a look would that be

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.

I see no future with Miller. Now I would not fire him for a shitty coach but I don’t just see Luke as a token alum hire. I think he has a ton of potential

But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

I could be totally wrong on overpaying for our current recruits but still fee like Luke could keep them together if he was interested in the job. He would have a good sales pitch given his NBA experience. And Chi you are wrong on some ways on how things really work in recruiting

I just see now long term future with miller at all anymore

You must be a lot of fun at parties. The inmates are not running the asylum, what Book did was the equivalent of driving 40 miles over the speed limit. Technically criminal, but says really nothing about his character. It's the reason the Arizona players that have known him over the years love him to death. With guys like Kemba Walker showing fierce loyalty to Book by giving him money when he ran into trouble.

You live in fairy tale land. Miller began to recruit well when he started to build his resume here. We didn't immediately start getting top classes. But when you have experience as a former elite guard and have a track record for building teams, recruits will notice. Miller's not some scrub, he coached USA basketball, played for USA basketball, and has extensive coaching experience and ties.

Do KU fans see no future with Bill Self? They have their own FBI worries, which allowed us to get Nnaji. Bruce Pearl seems to have recovered fine, as did Enfield. UNC's infractions were far worse than ours, and people still talk about Roy Williams as one of the great coaches in college basketball.

Arizona does not sell itself. UCLA sells itself, Aquaman sells itself, Girls Gone WIld sells itself. Too many people think that this program runs on autopilot and all Miller does is send out offer letters and sit on the sidelines and sip Mai Tai's. The reason why Miller can recruit the number class despite his troubles is because of his track record. When you are able to get a 24 year old JUCO transfer drafted by Danny Ainge ahead of two 5 stars, that's quite an achievement. When you add Trier's success and Ayton going number one, the results speak for themselves. Not too many coaches can boast that, especially the so called 'elite' coaches. To say nothing of TJ's success in the league. Self, Calipairi, Wright and Coach K have not done that. I would challenge you to find a legit comparison.

The reason why Luke doesn't work in my opinion is because it takes a certain personality to run this program. We're a program of FF or bust, and there's a lot variables in college basketball that NBA coaches won't deal with. It is very hard to be consistent on this level, and no one understands this better than Miller. Even if we have to part ways eventually, he will quickly build up the program wherever he goes, a la Rick Barnes, Pearl, Howland etc.

If you're saying we've always been shady, then you need to throw in Lute, Wooden, Calipari and Coach K in there as well. Because they all got their hands dirty at some point.

[ChooChooCat]

Luke would connect well with college-age players. He’s already logged some nice coaching experiences at the college and pro levels. And he’s someone who understands this program’s legacy and expectations.

At the college level? He coached for like 2 months at Memphis during the NBA lockout. That's the extent of his college coaching career and yeah he didn't recruit.

Miller has zero connections on the west coast, had never recruited top talent and came to Arizona and recruited really well especially west coast kids almost right away...a bit interesting in hindsight

Luke has a far bigger name then Miller had on the west coast now

Look maybe he would not want the job, I have no idea, but he would be a good alternative

Here's the difference Newport....Sean Miller had actually recruited HS players before he arrived to Arizona. Luke has a decent name sure, but he's not entrenched in west coast HS basketball. I'm not saying he couldn't, but either way the dude is the furthest thing from a homerun or even a remotely sure thing.

[ChooChooCat]

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.
....
But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

Maybe I'm just a naive old fool, but I just can't relate to this.

"We all knew Book was selling info to Ace." - that's unsavory, and crappy, but in no way a violation of any NCAA standards....

I'm just curious how many here affirm that "our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them"???

Not only all that, but Pasternack's name is being driven into the mud here for no reason, dude did nothing wrong. Sitting with a guy you think can help you recruiting, listening to what he has to say, and then not continuing that relationship isn't shady. Don't even get me started on the bullshit like of him offering Bowen 50k directly, such a joke. Book's issue has always been his personal finances, Miller stuck by him regardless, and low and behold we're in deep shit because of Book's personal finances.

[SCCats]

Luke would connect well with college-age players. He’s already logged some nice coaching experiences at the college and pro levels. And he’s someone who understands this program’s legacy and expectations.

At the college level? He coached for like 2 months at Memphis during the NBA lockout. That's the extent of his college coaching career and yeah he didn't recruit.

Miller has zero connections on the west coast, had never recruited top talent and came to Arizona and recruited really well especially west coast kids almost right away...a bit interesting in hindsight

Luke has a far bigger name then Miller had on the west coast now

Look maybe he would not want the job, I have no idea, but he would be a good alternative

Here's the difference Newport....Sean Miller had actually recruited HS players before he arrived to Arizona. Luke has a decent name sure, but he's not entrenched in west coast HS basketball. I'm not saying he couldn't, but either way the dude is the furthest thing from a homerun or even a remotely sure thing.

Also, and this could just be my opinion and garnered from things I've seen happen over the years, but the "let's keep this class together" mantra doesn't seem to generally hold up well for coaching hires after one year (the keeping the class together year) and often seems to hold up even worse after year one.

If we need to move on (mutually, and for all sorts of compounding reasons now), probably better to just swallow the bitter pill and do a real national search even if it means an interim for some time.

[ChooChooCat]

Arizona does not sell itself. UCLA sells itself, Aquaman sells itself, Girls Gone WIld sells itself. Too many people think that this program runs on autopilot and all Miller does is send out offer letters and sit on the sidelines and sip Mai Tai's. The reason why Miller can recruit the number class despite his troubles is because of his track record. When you are able to get a 24 year old JUCO transfer drafted by Danny Ainge ahead of two 5 stars, that's quite an achievement. When you add Trier's success and Ayton going number one, the results speak for themselves. Not too many coaches can boast that, especially the so called 'elite' coaches. To say nothing of TJ's success in the league. Self, Calipairi, Wright and Coach K have not done that. I would challenge you to find a legit comparison.

Aquaman sells itself? A guy that talks to fish and you don't know what other superpowers he has? Him talking to fish is literally his main super power! That sells itself?

Ok, to be serious though, yes Arizona does sell itself. Sure Sean Miller deserves a world of credit, but he wasn't able to recruit the same level of player at Xavier that he can at Arizona. Why? Because the Arizona brand name is powerful. It's not Duke, it's not Kansas, it's not Kentucky, but yeah it's up there. Dude if you don't think Self, Calipari, Wright, and Coach K have had underrated guys go on to NBA careers then I have literally just wasted my time responding to you. Yeesh...

[RiseAndFire]

Like the idea of Walton. He hasn't recruited but he has name recognition and is young enough where he'll ask questions. Also 100% guarantee that there will be no freaking east coast Bennett ball at Arizona

[SCCats]

Like the idea of Walton. He hasn't recruited but he has name recognition and is young enough where he'll ask questions. Also 100% guarantee that there will be no freaking east coast Bennett ball at Arizona

A very Rob Evans thing to say

[RawleArenas]

Arizona does not sell itself. UCLA sells itself, Aquaman sells itself, Girls Gone WIld sells itself. Too many people think that this program runs on autopilot and all Miller does is send out offer letters and sit on the sidelines and sip Mai Tai's. The reason why Miller can recruit the number class despite his troubles is because of his track record. When you are able to get a 24 year old JUCO transfer drafted by Danny Ainge ahead of two 5 stars, that's quite an achievement. When you add Trier's success and Ayton going number one, the results speak for themselves. Not too many coaches can boast that, especially the so called 'elite' coaches. To say nothing of TJ's success in the league. Self, Calipairi, Wright and Coach K have not done that. I would challenge you to find a legit comparison.

Aquaman sells itself? A guy that talks to fish and you don't know what other superpowers he has? Him talking to fish is literally his main super power! That sells itself?

Ok, to be serious though, yes Arizona does sell itself. Sure Sean Miller deserves a world of credit, but he wasn't able to recruit the same level of player at Xavier that he can at Arizona. Why? Because the Arizona brand name is powerful. It's not Duke, it's not Kansas, it's not Kentucky, but yeah it's up there. Dude if you don't think Self, Calipari, Wright, and Coach K have had underrated guys go on to NBA careers then I have literally just wasted my time responding to you. Yeesh...

C'mon Choo choo, I was being facetious.

Could you provide some names please? These are more than underrated guys, these are guys that no one projected to even make the NBA. Also, if you want to play that game shouldn't UCONN and Florida sell itself better than Arizona? They have six national titles between them and they have had great guys in the league as well.

How did Billy Gillespie do at Kentucky? Success at this level even at name brand schools are a reflection of leadership, which is the reason why we've been consistent for so long.

[ChooChooCat]

Arizona does not sell itself. UCLA sells itself, Aquaman sells itself, Girls Gone WIld sells itself. Too many people think that this program runs on autopilot and all Miller does is send out offer letters and sit on the sidelines and sip Mai Tai's. The reason why Miller can recruit the number class despite his troubles is because of his track record. When you are able to get a 24 year old JUCO transfer drafted by Danny Ainge ahead of two 5 stars, that's quite an achievement. When you add Trier's success and Ayton going number one, the results speak for themselves. Not too many coaches can boast that, especially the so called 'elite' coaches. To say nothing of TJ's success in the league. Self, Calipairi, Wright and Coach K have not done that. I would challenge you to find a legit comparison.

Aquaman sells itself? A guy that talks to fish and you don't know what other superpowers he has? Him talking to fish is literally his main super power! That sells itself?

Ok, to be serious though, yes Arizona does sell itself. Sure Sean Miller deserves a world of credit, but he wasn't able to recruit the same level of player at Xavier that he can at Arizona. Why? Because the Arizona brand name is powerful. It's not Duke, it's not Kansas, it's not Kentucky, but yeah it's up there. Dude if you don't think Self, Calipari, Wright, and Coach K have had underrated guys go on to NBA careers then I have literally just wasted my time responding to you. Yeesh...

C'mon Choo choo, I was being facetious.

Could you provide some names please? These are more than underrated guys, these are guys that no one projected to even make the NBA. Also, if you want to play that game shouldn't UCONN and Florida sell itself better than Arizona? They have six national titles between them and they have had great guys in the league as well.

How did Billy Gillespie do at Kentucky? Success at this level even at name brand schools are a reflection of leadership, which is the reason why we've been consistent for so long.

Frank Mason (3 star, ended up 34th pick in his draft) & Devonte Graham are the first to come to mind for Bill Self, Josh Harrellson for Calipari, Coach K has had numerous (mainly in the past obviously), and for Wright good lord, how about all of his guys that was drafted in this past draft?

[RawleArenas]

Those are clearly not the same caliber of players of TJ and Kadeem. Graham was a four star and Frank Mason, while underrated was the national player of the year. Of course an NBA team is going to take a chance on him. All of Wright's guys were four stars or higher. Please find better examples.

[midnightx]

Yes, AZ sells itself. It has been consistently a top-ten, top-fifteen program nationally since the mid-1980's with a history of final fours (one title), deep tournament runs, almost yearly tournament appearances, a winning culture, and record numbers of players in the NBA. Miller even said that the moment he arrived on campus that he was able to recruit players he never had a chance to at his previous stops because of the name value. Is AZ a bigger sell than UConn? Maybe, maybe not. UConn has the titles, but it is not all about the titles. AZ has had a major resume as well, and perhaps has been consistently better over the past 3 decades. Florida is not a bigger program, even with Donovan's back-to-back titles. Wisconsin made back-to-back final fours and beat AZ twice to get there, but how many people nationally would honestly recognize Wisconsin as a more notable program?

There is a growing presumption that Miller is going to get fired. The program is clearly going to get hit with sanctions of some sort, and everyone knew that was likely going to be the case due to the old mantra of "lack of institutional control" that buried USC football. But if Miller is not on a FBI wiretap facilitating payments for players (and he likely is not because it probably would have been revealed in the fall 2018 trial), or if he has not been directly involved with any of the lesser infractions, he will likely survive. He has a major class coming in (seriously, who can recruit that well with their program under this kind of cloud -- it is almost unheard of), but the program seems unsettled. Perhaps it is just the fan-base losing their minds, and nationally, high school players are not as concerned. It is probably way too premature to assume Miller is going to leave the program.

Ideally, it would be nice to see all of this chaos settle down. The program reloads with some talent. The NCAA dishes out some sanctions and everyone puts this behind. If and then it is time for Miller to go because his teams remain offensively stagnant and he does not meet exceptions, fine. But to can him now, to lose this class, and have the program implode before the NCAA does anything is crazy.

[RawleArenas]

Yes, AZ sells itself. It has been consistently a top-ten, top-fifteen program nationally since the mid-1980's with a history of final fours (one title), deep tournament runs, almost yearly tournament appearances, a winning culture, and record numbers of players in the NBA. Miller even said that the moment he arrived on campus that he was able to recruit players he never had a chance to at his previous stops because of the name value. Is AZ a bigger sell than UConn? Maybe, maybe not. UConn has the titles, but it is not all about the titles. AZ has had a major resume as well, and perhaps has been consistently better over the past 3 decades. Florida is not a bigger program, even with Donovan's back-to-back titles. Wisconsin made back-to-back final fours and beat AZ twice to get there, but how many people nationally would honestly recognize Wisconsin as a more notable program?

There is a growing presumption that Miller is going to get fired. The program is clearly going to get hit with sanctions of some sort, and everyone knew that was likely going to be the case due to the old mantra of "lack of institutional control" that buried USC football. But if Miller is not on a FBI wiretap facilitating payments for players (and he likely is not because it probably would have been revealed in the fall 2018 trial), or if he has not been directly involved with any of the lesser infractions, he will likely survive. He has a major class coming in (seriously, who can recruit that well with their program under this kind of cloud -- it is almost unheard of), but the program seems unsettled. Perhaps it is just the fan-base losing their minds, and nationally, high school players are not as concerned. It is probably way too premature to assume Miller is going to leave the program.

Ideally, it would be nice to see all of this chaos settle down. The program reloads with some talent. The NCAA dishes out some sanctions and everyone puts this behind. If and then it is time for Miller to go because his teams remain offensively stagnant and he does not meet exceptions, fine. But to can him now, to lose this class, and have the program implode before the NCAA does anything is crazy.

I totally agree with you on taking a wait and see approach, and that Miller's #1 class is an incredible achievement considering the situation, most fans think that the name Arizona recruited itself out of this situation, which is ridiculous. The reason why Florida is not a bigger program is because they couldn't land someone near Donovan's ability. Otherwise they would be top 10 as well. It is not easy locating top level coaches. And Florida plays good basketball.

Those schools have no where near the relevance of Arizona, and what I'm essentially saying is you have to have the right people to leverage the name of the program. Cal had Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, Abdur-Rahim, Jaylen Brown, Ivan Rabb and no one looks at them. Look at UCLA's class for next year, their name is not selling itself. We've been good for so long I think we lose our perspective on things.

[legallykenny]

Those are clearly not the same caliber of players of TJ and Kadeem. Graham was a four star and Frank Mason, while underrated was the national player of the year. Of course an NBA team is going to take a chance on him. All of Wright's guys were four stars or higher. Please find better examples.

I'm confused by what you're trying to prove here.

If Miller pulled TJ and Kadeem out of high school, that would be one thing. But instead he pulled them after they'd already been very successful -- TJ was damned good at Duquesne and Kadeem was a national JUCO player of the year who was also offered by KU.

[RawleArenas]

Those are clearly not the same caliber of players of TJ and Kadeem. Graham was a four star and Frank Mason, while underrated was the national player of the year. Of course an NBA team is going to take a chance on him. All of Wright's guys were four stars or higher. Please find better examples.

I'm confused by what you're trying to prove here.

If Miller pulled TJ and Kadeem out of high school, that would be one thing. But instead he pulled them after they'd already been very successful -- TJ was damned good at Duquesne and Kadeem was a national JUCO player of the year who was also offered by KU.

Ok, I can see this has gotten out of hand. The whole point was that these guys were not NBA guys when they got here, and very few top programs have these kind of guys that get burn in the NBA. That's it, nothing more.

[ChooChooCat]

Those are clearly not the same caliber of players of TJ and Kadeem. Graham was a four star and Frank Mason, while underrated was the national player of the year. Of course an NBA team is going to take a chance on him. All of Wright's guys were four stars or higher. Please find better examples.

I'm confused by what you're trying to prove here.

If Miller pulled TJ and Kadeem out of high school, that would be one thing. But instead he pulled them after they'd already been very successful -- TJ was damned good at Duquesne and Kadeem was a national JUCO player of the year who was also offered by KU.

Ok, I can see this has gotten out of hand. The whole point was that these guys were not NBA guys when they got here, and very few top programs have these kind of guys that get burn in the NBA. That's it, nothing more.

If that's your point then how the hell do you dismiss Frank Mason so easily? All the Nova guys, especially Divencenzo were not NBA guys before they got to Nova. 4 stars does not equate to sure fire NBA player as the vast majority of our roster at this moment more than proves. Knock it off man.

[CatFanOneMil]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but you guys are having a debate on who we hire, and we fucking already have a coach...Miller.

How many pages of threads about who we hire while we have one of the top 25 coaches working here and loving Az as it is?

Its like arguing over who would win Bigfoot or Sasquatch.

[Jefe]

Another way to think of it: Luke Walton would immediately be the most well known, most distinguished coach in the Pac. NBA champ as player and coach. Pac champ. FF as player in ‘01. Say what you will about his coaching resume, but he’s a bigger name right now than Altman, Hurley, et al.

This is all to say that Luke would absolutely kill it recruiting-wise. You put a guy like that at a program like AZ, and the elite players will arrive in even greater numbers.

[Newportcat]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but you guys are having a debate on who we hire, and we fucking already have a coach...Miller.

How many pages of threads about who we hire while we have one of the top 25 coaches working here and loving Az as it is?

Its like arguing over who would win Bigfoot or Sasquatch.

The only reason I brought up Luke in this thread is I think he is the first hire who I would think could be available, and we have a legit chance at, and makes sense, and I think is a good head coach with a lot of potential. What else are we supposed to talk about? I mean if you think Miller is going to be here for the long term that's fine, but I think its a pipe dream at this point. Even if he stays, the second he rights our ship and the smoke clears on the NCAA issues, 99% chance he is gone. There is no long term answer with Miller. The best hope is he uses the current recruits to right the ship before he leaves. I see no way he stays especially after the events of last week.

[btfd16]

Wait did you really think the recruits this year were paid? You really think Sean Miller is as big of an idiot as Billy McFarland? When you're under investigation, that's when you do the least amount of crimes....

[Newportcat]

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.
....
But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

Maybe I'm just a naive old fool, but I just can't relate to this.

"We all knew Book was selling info to Ace." - that's unsavory, and crappy, but in no way a violation of any NCAA standards....

I'm just curious how many here affirm that "our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them"???

Not only all that, but Pasternack's name is being driven into the mud here for no reason, dude did nothing wrong. Sitting with a guy you think can help you recruiting, listening to what he has to say, and then not continuing that relationship isn't shady. Don't even get me started on the bullshit like of him offering Bowen 50k directly, such a joke. Book's issue has always been his personal finances, Miller stuck by him regardless, and low and behold we're in deep shit because of Book's personal finances.

Choo, come on really? Pasternack was clean...really, REALLY. Like with your connections you are going to say that as if its a fact. Love you too brother but bad take

And pretty sure Book taking money from Ace goes against Outside Income rules of NCAA bylaw, 11.2.2 unless he reported it to Arizona which I am 99.999999% he did not do because why would he report it.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pep ... -rules.pdf" target="_blank

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but Arizona has never had a clean program. No major program is clean. But Kentucky and Duke do a much better job of running shit then we did the past couple of years.

Again, I could care less as all these rules are so damn stupid to begin with.

[Newportcat]

Wait did you really think the recruits this year were paid? You really think Sean Miller is as big of an idiot as Billy McFarland? When you're under investigation, that's when you do the least amount of crimes....

I think we needed as strong a recruiting class as possible given everything going on. Maybe none of our recruits were paid this year. I could be dead wrong for sure as you are right it would not make any sense to double down on it.

Sean Miller kept Book on staff for a very long time which was not a smart move at all. This was a disaster waiting to happen

[Newportcat]

Arizona does not sell itself. UCLA sells itself, Aquaman sells itself, Girls Gone WIld sells itself. Too many people think that this program runs on autopilot and all Miller does is send out offer letters and sit on the sidelines and sip Mai Tai's. The reason why Miller can recruit the number class despite his troubles is because of his track record. When you are able to get a 24 year old JUCO transfer drafted by Danny Ainge ahead of two 5 stars, that's quite an achievement. When you add Trier's success and Ayton going number one, the results speak for themselves. Not too many coaches can boast that, especially the so called 'elite' coaches. To say nothing of TJ's success in the league. Self, Calipairi, Wright and Coach K have not done that. I would challenge you to find a legit comparison.

Aquaman sells itself? A guy that talks to fish and you don't know what other superpowers he has? Him talking to fish is literally his main super power! That sells itself?

Ok, to be serious though, yes Arizona does sell itself. Sure Sean Miller deserves a world of credit, but he wasn't able to recruit the same level of player at Xavier that he can at Arizona. Why? Because the Arizona brand name is powerful. It's not Duke, it's not Kansas, it's not Kentucky, but yeah it's up there. Dude if you don't think Self, Calipari, Wright, and Coach K have had underrated guys go on to NBA careers then I have literally just wasted my time responding to you. Yeesh...

How did aquaman get brought into this?

[CalStateTempe]

Just got back from an epic four days of skiing at Tahoe.

What did I miss? Anything new?

My 4yo rocks the greens like a champ after three days go ski school.

[dovecanyoncat]

Just got back from an epic four days of skiing at Tahoe.

What did I miss? Anything new?

My 4yo rocks the greens like a champ after three days go ski school.

The consensus is: if Miller is fired it's down to Luke Walton or Aquaman as a new hire. Luke has to break into HS recruiting and Aquaman has to sober up. There's good aspects of both. Luke is held in high regard on the West Coast. Aquaman kills it throughout the Pacific Ocean schools of fish.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Luke Walton to UCLA. Just heard Titus and Tate call it, so it's basically done. He's just waiting for his pink slip from LeBron.
Edit...
Obviously it's not but I believe it.

[Newportcat]

If Luke took the UCLA job, I would definitely quit college basketball. Like immediately

Luke succeeding at UCLA...I honestly could think of nothing worse sports related. Maybe ASU making a final four

[Chicat]

Just got back from an epic four days of skiing at Tahoe.

What did I miss? Anything new?

My 4yo rocks the greens like a champ after three days go ski school.

The consensus is: if Miller is fired it's down to Luke Walton or Aquaman as a new hire. Luke has to break into HS recruiting and Aquaman has to sober up. There's good aspects of both. Luke is held in high regard on the West Coast. Aquaman kills it throughout the Pacific Ocean schools of fish.

Can Aquaman replenish the aquifer?

[dovecanyoncat]

Just got back from an epic four days of skiing at Tahoe.

What did I miss? Anything new?

My 4yo rocks the greens like a champ after three days go ski school.

The consensus is: if Miller is fired it's down to Luke Walton or Aquaman as a new hire. Luke has to break into HS recruiting and Aquaman has to sober up. There's good aspects of both. Luke is held in high regard on the West Coast. Aquaman kills it throughout the Pacific Ocean schools of fish.

Can Aquaman replenish the aquifer?

Sorry, that would be Rainman. He's not good with people/players, but he's an excellent driver.

[ChooChooCat]

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.
....
But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

Maybe I'm just a naive old fool, but I just can't relate to this.

"We all knew Book was selling info to Ace." - that's unsavory, and crappy, but in no way a violation of any NCAA standards....

I'm just curious how many here affirm that "our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them"???

Not only all that, but Pasternack's name is being driven into the mud here for no reason, dude did nothing wrong. Sitting with a guy you think can help you recruiting, listening to what he has to say, and then not continuing that relationship isn't shady. Don't even get me started on the bullshit like of him offering Bowen 50k directly, such a joke. Book's issue has always been his personal finances, Miller stuck by him regardless, and low and behold we're in deep shit because of Book's personal finances.

Choo, come on really? Pasternack was clean...really, REALLY. Like with your connections you are going to say that as if its a fact. Love you too brother but bad take

And pretty sure Book taking money from Ace goes against Outside Income rules of NCAA bylaw, 11.2.2 unless he reported it to Arizona which I am 99.999999% he did not do because why would he report it.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pep ... -rules.pdf" target="_blank

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but Arizona has never had a clean program. No major program is clean. But Kentucky and Duke do a much better job of running shit then we did the past couple of years.

Again, I could care less as all these rules are so damn stupid to begin with.

Lol well wtf is your definition of CLEAN, Newport?

Ok I'll put this out here, Joe Pasternack NEVER paid or offered to pay any recruit ever. Now he may have been aware of some shoe company willing to pay players, but Joe sure as shit never did pay anyone personally or offer to do so, because Joe ain't an idiot. I've already laid out how recruiting works in shady recruitments. Arizona has gotten involved in some in the past and avoided the vast majority the other times. It is what it is. This 2019 class includes ZERO shady recruitments.

[Chicat]

Just got back from an epic four days of skiing at Tahoe.

What did I miss? Anything new?

My 4yo rocks the greens like a champ after three days go ski school.

The consensus is: if Miller is fired it's down to Luke Walton or Aquaman as a new hire. Luke has to break into HS recruiting and Aquaman has to sober up. There's good aspects of both. Luke is held in high regard on the West Coast. Aquaman kills it throughout the Pacific Ocean schools of fish.

Can Aquaman replenish the aquifer?

Sorry, that would be Rainman. He's not good with people/players, but he's an excellent driver.

No early afternoon games.

Wopner’s on...

[CalStateTempe]

Luke to UCLA would be like Larry smith to USC.

[baycat93]

Lol well wtf is your definition of CLEAN, Newport?

Ok I'll put this out here, Joe Pasternack NEVER paid or offered to pay any recruit ever. Now he may have been aware of some shoe company willing to pay players, but Joe sure as shit never did pay anyone personally or offer to do so, because Joe ain't an idiot. I've already laid out how recruiting works in shady recruitments. Arizona has gotten involved in some in the past and avoided the vast majority the other times. It is what it is. This 2019 class includes ZERO shady recruitments.

CCC that is really good to hear and I am comforted by your passion on the subject. You seldom use such strong language. I have had Pasternak as a potential (only that) issue in the back of my mind since this started. Only based on one persons account and that account had it's own bias. So it was taken with a grain of salt.

[Newportcat]

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.
....
But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

Maybe I'm just a naive old fool, but I just can't relate to this.

"We all knew Book was selling info to Ace." - that's unsavory, and crappy, but in no way a violation of any NCAA standards....

I'm just curious how many here affirm that "our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them"???

Not only all that, but Pasternack's name is being driven into the mud here for no reason, dude did nothing wrong. Sitting with a guy you think can help you recruiting, listening to what he has to say, and then not continuing that relationship isn't shady. Don't even get me started on the bullshit like of him offering Bowen 50k directly, such a joke. Book's issue has always been his personal finances, Miller stuck by him regardless, and low and behold we're in deep shit because of Book's personal finances.

Choo, come on really? Pasternack was clean...really, REALLY. Like with your connections you are going to say that as if its a fact. Love you too brother but bad take

And pretty sure Book taking money from Ace goes against Outside Income rules of NCAA bylaw, 11.2.2 unless he reported it to Arizona which I am 99.999999% he did not do because why would he report it.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pep ... -rules.pdf" target="_blank

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but Arizona has never had a clean program. No major program is clean. But Kentucky and Duke do a much better job of running shit then we did the past couple of years.

Again, I could care less as all these rules are so damn stupid to begin with.

Lol well wtf is your definition of CLEAN, Newport?

Ok I'll put this out here, Joe Pasternack NEVER paid or offered to pay any recruit ever. Now he may have been aware of some shoe company willing to pay players, but Joe sure as shit never did pay anyone personally or offer to do so, because Joe ain't an idiot. I've already laid out how recruiting works in shady recruitments. Arizona has gotten involved in some in the past and avoided the vast majority the other times. It is what it is. This 2019 class includes ZERO shady recruitments.

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

[Newportcat]

Luke to UCLA would be like Larry smith to USC.

I think ten times worse. Luke coming to Arizona I think is a massive Fuck you to UCLA and always has been. He is one of us. And if he is successful at UCLA, my god, I would want to throw up so much. Can you imagine how pissed we would all be if he took them to a Final Four. Or him coaching UCLA inside McKale. That is sacrilegious.

Larry Smith should have left Arizona for USC, its a ten times better job. And he is not really one of us like Luke is. Maybe its different since Luke was there when I was in school but god that would be awful.

[dmjcat]

Sean Miller made his bed. Pasternack and Book were dirty as fuck. Everyone knew it. We all knew Book was selling info to Ace. Miller let the inmates run the asalymn and here we are.
....
But wake up a bit guys, our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them.

Maybe I'm just a naive old fool, but I just can't relate to this.

"We all knew Book was selling info to Ace." - that's unsavory, and crappy, but in no way a violation of any NCAA standards....

I'm just curious how many here affirm that "our program has always been shady. We just had some clowns who got sloppy and Miller didn’t stop them"???

Not only all that, but Pasternack's name is being driven into the mud here for no reason, dude did nothing wrong. Sitting with a guy you think can help you recruiting, listening to what he has to say, and then not continuing that relationship isn't shady. Don't even get me started on the bullshit like of him offering Bowen 50k directly, such a joke. Book's issue has always been his personal finances, Miller stuck by him regardless, and low and behold we're in deep shit because of Book's personal finances.

Choo, come on really? Pasternack was clean...really, REALLY. Like with your connections you are going to say that as if its a fact. Love you too brother but bad take

And pretty sure Book taking money from Ace goes against Outside Income rules of NCAA bylaw, 11.2.2 unless he reported it to Arizona which I am 99.999999% he did not do because why would he report it.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pep ... -rules.pdf" target="_blank

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but Arizona has never had a clean program. No major program is clean. But Kentucky and Duke do a much better job of running shit then we did the past couple of years.

Again, I could care less as all these rules are so damn stupid to begin with.

Lol well wtf is your definition of CLEAN, Newport?

Ok I'll put this out here, Joe Pasternack NEVER paid or offered to pay any recruit ever. Now he may have been aware of some shoe company willing to pay players, but Joe sure as shit never did pay anyone personally or offer to do so, because Joe ain't an idiot. I've already laid out how recruiting works in shady recruitments. Arizona has gotten involved in some in the past and avoided the vast majority the other times. It is what it is. This 2019 class includes ZERO shady recruitments.

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

[pc in NM]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

[Newportcat]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I didn’t write this above by the way, not my quote

I mean Pasternack was listed and brought up a bunch via the FBI stuff. It should not be shocking to anyone to know he was dirty at all.

“Strong recruiters” in college basketball almost all are. Coach Cal or PayPal Cal, Jeff capel (shocking he shows up at Duke and they start getting one and dones right)...etc.

The PayPal cal stories are hilarious

[baycat93]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I didn’t write this above by the way, not my quote

I mean Pasternack was listed and brought up a bunch via the FBI stuff. It should not be shocking to anyone to know he was dirty at all.

“Strong recruiters” in college basketball almost all are. Coach Cal or PayPal Cal, Jeff capel (shocking he shows up at Duke and they start getting one and dones right)...etc.

The PayPal cal stories are hilarious

So is it Bitcoin Bill (Self) these days