Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[prh]

And all this is a nice reminder that despite the proclamations of how The Atlantic is the "best sports journalism" out there, I'm still better off not paying for it or caring.

[YoDeFoe]

What continues to be wildly frustrating to me is that there isn’t more of an effort by Arizona, publicly or preferably privately, to push back on the reporting.

Some of these reporters clearly play favorites. They’ve got guys they’re friends with. And Miller strikes me as a guy who is a bit of a tough nut to crack. He’s not going to be everyone's best friend, probably won’t be slapping backs in the media room anytime soon.

But for the love of the program there should be someone who acts as a lobbyist on our behalf, trading access for more favorable reporting. I don’t mean papering over our mistakes - I mean not letting Arizona become the poster child when we’re behind so many other programs in terms of substantial wrongdoing.

What is Channing Frye or RJ up to these days?

[Spaceman Spiff]

What continues to be wildly frustrating to me is that there isn’t more of an effort by Arizona, publicly or preferably privately, to push back on the reporting.

Some of these reporters clearly play favorites. They’ve got guys they’re friends with. And Miller strikes me as a guy who is a bit of a tough nut to crack. He’s not going to be everyone's best friend, probably won’t be slapping backs in the media room anytime soon.

But for the love of the program there should be someone who acts as a lobbyist on our behalf, trading access for more favorable reporting. I don’t mean papering over our mistakes - I mean not letting Arizona become the poster child when we’re behind so many other programs in terms of substantial wrongdoing.

What is Channing Frye or RJ up to these days?

You'd like to think our AD would do that.

[YoDeFoe]

What continues to be wildly frustrating to me is that there isn’t more of an effort by Arizona, publicly or preferably privately, to push back on the reporting.

Some of these reporters clearly play favorites. They’ve got guys they’re friends with. And Miller strikes me as a guy who is a bit of a tough nut to crack. He’s not going to be everyone's best friend, probably won’t be slapping backs in the media room anytime soon.

But for the love of the program there should be someone who acts as a lobbyist on our behalf, trading access for more favorable reporting. I don’t mean papering over our mistakes - I mean not letting Arizona become the poster child when we’re behind so many other programs in terms of substantial wrongdoing.

What is Channing Frye or RJ up to these days?

You'd like to think our AD would do that.

Miller’s presser just now noted his love for President Robbins and his appreciation for AD Henke. Disparity seemed clear to me. I wouldn’t expect Henke to have the capability or reach to get the above done given his background at a little known Midwest program. But he should at least have the wherewithal to have outsourced that responsibility to someone capable of tackling it.

[CatFanOneMil]

What continues to be wildly frustrating to me is that there isn’t more of an effort by Arizona, publicly or preferably privately, to push back on the reporting.

Some of these reporters clearly play favorites. They’ve got guys they’re friends with. And Miller strikes me as a guy who is a bit of a tough nut to crack. He’s not going to be everyone's best friend, probably won’t be slapping backs in the media room anytime soon.

But for the love of the program there should be someone who acts as a lobbyist on our behalf, trading access for more favorable reporting. I don’t mean papering over our mistakes - I mean not letting Arizona become the poster child when we’re behind so many other programs in terms of substantial wrongdoing.

What is Channing Frye or RJ up to these days?

You'd like to think our AD would do that.

Miller’s presser just now noted his love for President Robbins and his appreciation for AD Henke. Disparity seemed clear to me. I wouldn’t expect Henke to have the capability or reach to get the above done given his background at a little known Midwest program. But he should at least have the wherewithal to have outsourced that responsibility to someone capable of tackling it.

Outsourcing requires someone smart enough to know they are not smart enough to know everything...Heeke is not that smart.

[CatFanOneMil]

I was watching Millers presser today, and one thing really stood out to me as he was answering a question about the difficulty of recruiting here in Tucson...his posture, his honoring the legacy, his response about the long term tradition of this school and what that means, not just Lute but the entire history here and how great and humbling it is to coach here is not some made up talking point...he says this a LOT.

He believes it.

I have serious doubts he would ever tarnish that history or the reputation of this school with cheating in recruiting or any other form...you can't be THAT good an actor...the response was heartfelt and not a premeditated speech, it is something he feels in his gut.

Fuck espn.

Fuck Jay Bilas.

Fuck Dick Vitale.

Fuck Dana O'neil

Fuck Pat Forde

Fuck every last one of them with a splintered telephone pole.

They have done their best to destroy our school and our program and coach., its not some light little reporting they've done, they have been intentionally harmful.

TripleFuck them.

[terryarms]

I have serious doubts he would ever tarnish that history or the reputation of this school with cheating in recruiting or any other form...you can't be THAT good an actor...the response was heartfelt and not a premeditated speech, it is something he feels in his gut.

Yes, you can be that good an actor. You're making too much out of it to say that Miller's comments today somehow confirm that he wouldn't cheat.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I haven't talked to any rational Arizona fans that think Miller isn't involved in the impropriety in some way. But with the known evidence, that can't be proven even if it is true. Even if ESPN continues to obscure the facts with the way they've reported the situation.

Miller is obviously dirty, but there's not enough out there to prove it. Honestly, I'm ok with that because that's the case at pretty much all the top basketball programs.

[CatFanOneMil]

I have serious doubts he would ever tarnish that history or the reputation of this school with cheating in recruiting or any other form...you can't be THAT good an actor...the response was heartfelt and not a premeditated speech, it is something he feels in his gut.

Yes, you can be that good an actor. You're making too much out of it to say that Miller's comments today somehow confirm that he wouldn't cheat.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I haven't talked to any rational Arizona fans that think Miller isn't involved in the impropriety in some way. But with the known evidence, that can't be proven even if it is true. Even if ESPN continues to obscure the facts with the way they've reported the situation.

Miller is obviously dirty, but there's not enough out there to prove it. Honestly, I'm ok with that because that's the case at pretty much all the top basketball programs.

I call bullshit.

Conspiracies are nice comfortable things as long as you don't believe in facts.

Someone show me the FACTS that Miller is dirty on ANY level.

I'll wait.

[terryarms]

I have serious doubts he would ever tarnish that history or the reputation of this school with cheating in recruiting or any other form...you can't be THAT good an actor...the response was heartfelt and not a premeditated speech, it is something he feels in his gut.

Yes, you can be that good an actor. You're making too much out of it to say that Miller's comments today somehow confirm that he wouldn't cheat.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I haven't talked to any rational Arizona fans that think Miller isn't involved in the impropriety in some way. But with the known evidence, that can't be proven even if it is true. Even if ESPN continues to obscure the facts with the way they've reported the situation.

Miller is obviously dirty, but there's not enough out there to prove it. Honestly, I'm ok with that because that's the case at pretty much all the top basketball programs.

I call bullshit.

Conspiracies are nice comfortable things as long as you don't believe in facts.

Someone show me the FACTS that Miller is dirty on ANY level.

I'll wait.

You're missing the point. I'm saying there are no facts out there to prove that Miller is dirty, but its just simple common sense that he of course had an idea of what was going on. And I'm not even saying that's a bad thing, because that's the case at nearly every other program. College coaches are dirty pretty much across the board, from the hall of fame level coaches to the no name coaches. It's just how the sport works.

[ChooChooCat]

I have serious doubts he would ever tarnish that history or the reputation of this school with cheating in recruiting or any other form...you can't be THAT good an actor...the response was heartfelt and not a premeditated speech, it is something he feels in his gut.

Yes, you can be that good an actor. You're making too much out of it to say that Miller's comments today somehow confirm that he wouldn't cheat.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I haven't talked to any rational Arizona fans that think Miller isn't involved in the impropriety in some way. But with the known evidence, that can't be proven even if it is true. Even if ESPN continues to obscure the facts with the way they've reported the situation.

Miller is obviously dirty, but there's not enough out there to prove it. Honestly, I'm ok with that because that's the case at pretty much all the top basketball programs.

I call bullshit.

Conspiracies are nice comfortable things as long as you don't believe in facts.

Someone show me the FACTS that Miller is dirty on ANY level.

I'll wait.

You're missing the point. I'm saying there are no facts out there to prove that Miller is dirty, but its just simple common sense that he of course had an idea of what was going on. And I'm not even saying that's a bad thing, because that's the case at nearly every other program. College coaches are dirty pretty much across the board, from the hall of fame level coaches to the no name coaches. It's just how the sport works.

You think he had an idea that one of his assistants took bribes to push his current or exiting players to a random agency? How would that help Miller in any way that he'd be in on it exactly?

[CatFanOneMil]

You're missing the point. I'm saying there are no facts out there to prove that Miller is dirty, but its just simple common sense that he of course had an idea of what was going on. And I'm not even saying that's a bad thing, because that's the case at nearly every other program. College coaches are dirty pretty much across the board, from the hall of fame level coaches to the no name coaches. It's just how the sport works.

And you are missing my point, you are claiming "it's common sense" that Miller knew what Book was up to, that is the place I am calling bullshit...there is no common sense that requires me to believe that Book could not hide his activity from the authorities WHICH INCLUDE MILLER...

If it took an FBI WIRETAP to catch him, how in hell is it "common sense" that Miller would know any of this was going on?

You're pushing a conspiracy here, in your world Miller HAD to know things that not even the FBI knew without setting up a sting...and in that sting somehow Miller was able to keep his knowledge and connection to the crime completely out of the FBI's hidden intelligence gathering...in your world common sense requires that I believe Miller is not simply another "dirty coach" like all the other coaches out there, but he is also some sort of super-villian able to elude detection and capture in his schemes by the worlds leading intelligence gathering institution AND the NCAA AND investigative lawyers representing the University of Arizona...

In your world common sense requires I believe Miller is a better cheater than 3 very powerful investigation agencies are capable of detecting.

Lets not forget they probably had access to his phones, his own records, his own computers both at the University and at home...

If there was dirt to find someone would have found it...

In my world my common sense says that Miller has been through MORE SCRUTINY than any other college coach out there and has come up clean, therefore he is clean.

I'm dealing with facts, you are dealing with make believe assumptions.

[terryarms]

You think he had an idea that one of his assistants took bribes to push his current or exiting players to a random agency? How would that help Miller in any way that he'd be in on it exactly?

I think pretty much all the coaches at high level programs know the types of things their assistants do.

Not saying it benefited Miller in any way. But I think it's wishful thinking to hold on to the idea that Miller is completely clean despite there being no concrete proof.

Maybe others believe that the bits of information that have been exposed are all there is to the cheating that has occurred. I see more logic in believing that's probably the tip of the iceberg. Cheating has been rampant throughout every reach of college basketball for decades.

I'm not sure why this is such an offensive point of view.

[ByJoveByJingle]

.

I'm not sure why this is such an offensive point of view.

It’s not to most of us here. At least based on opinions expressed in this thread.

[azcat49]

No way Miller knew Book went Benedict Arnold.

No way the shoe companies have not been paying kids or those close to the kids since the days of Lute

No way coaches didn’t know kids or someone close to them were getting paid

No way coaches cared who got paid or from whom (as long as it was a shoe rep not someone tied to our program)

No way Miller was asking the system for help in recruiting

Just things I assume and believe

[Spaceman Spiff]

You think he had an idea that one of his assistants took bribes to push his current or exiting players to a random agency? How would that help Miller in any way that he'd be in on it exactly?

I think pretty much all the coaches at high level programs know the types of things their assistants do.

Not saying it benefited Miller in any way. But I think it's wishful thinking to hold on to the idea that Miller is completely clean despite there being no concrete proof.

Maybe others believe that the bits of information that have been exposed are all there is to the cheating that has occurred. I see more logic in believing that's probably the tip of the iceberg. Cheating has been rampant throughout every reach of college basketball for decades.

I'm not sure why this is such an offensive point of view.

I think you're blurring whether Miller is involved with "the impropriety" with whether he's involved in "impropriety."

The actual impropriety, it is hard to see how Book's actions did anything but hurt Miller. Recruiting impropriety in general...well, I agree we're in the same situation as any top program landing top recruits.

[CatFanOneMil]

You think he had an idea that one of his assistants took bribes to push his current or exiting players to a random agency? How would that help Miller in any way that he'd be in on it exactly?

I think pretty much all the coaches at high level programs know the types of things their assistants do.

Not saying it benefited Miller in any way. But I think it's wishful thinking to hold on to the idea that Miller is completely clean despite there being no concrete proof.

Maybe others believe that the bits of information that have been exposed are all there is to the cheating that has occurred. I see more logic in believing that's probably the tip of the iceberg. Cheating has been rampant throughout every reach of college basketball for decades.

I'm not sure why this is such an offensive point of view.

It's offensive because it lacks facts.

"Cheating has been rampant throughout EVERY reach of college basketball for decades"...

And yet you offer no proof whatsoever to this assumption, you just want us to accept it as fact...hundreds of players have gone on to the NBA and almost none of them have made claims even close to this...when it would not cost them a thing to expose the corruption you claim exist no one has shown up with any kind of verifiable proof...

I know its pretty popular to assume that everything is fake news and cover-up, that everyone is corrupt, but thats just self indulgent permission to excuse bad behavior...most people are good, most people play by the rules...yes there are cheaters but to assume everyone does it and its been going on for decades requires more proof for me than your opinion it is a fact.

Give me evidence. Facts.

Not your opinion.

[JMarkJohns]

I don’t care one way or another if players were paid.

I do care whether the media is painting that idea with or without factual evidence.

Without it, that’s slander. It should even be libelous. It has gone on for 18 months now, and the pattern is one of malicious intent as the coverage has not been fair or balanced, even with other programs having more direct links to corruption.

Book said Miller had no idea what Book was doing.

Miller said that. The FBI said that. The NCAA found nothing to prove the opposite with Ayton and Alkins under the microscope and spotlight.

Short of proof, no opinion overrides these facts.

Nor should it.

Regardless of what you believe.

[azcat49]

Agreed JMark 100%

[CatFanOneMil]

I don’t care one way or another if players were paid.

I do care whether the media is painting that idea with or without factual evidence.

Without it, that’s slander. It should even be libelous. It has gone on for 18 months now, and the pattern is one of malicious intent as the coverage has not been fair or balanced, even with other programs having more direct links to corruption.

Book said Miller had no idea why he was doing.

Miller said that. The FBI said that. The NCAA found nothing to prove the opposite with Ayton and Alkins under the microscope and spotlight.

Short of proof, no opinion overrides these facts.

Nor should it.

Regardless of what you believe.

^^^^THIS^^^^

The reason I have issues with people making the claim that "cheating is rampant in college basketball and has been for decades" is because IT GIVES TRACTION TO THE IDEA THAT MILLER IS A CHEAT and does so in a way that he cannot defend himself.

There's a reason we have rules, it is not only to protect the game but also to protect the players which includes the coaches in this instance...

When we ASSUME baseless claims that everyone has been cheating and all good players have been paid we contribute to a shadow game, and while it might be possible this game exist, without proof we are denying coaches like Miller a chance to defend themselves...

Hell even Self gets the right to defend himself...coach K as well...as much as I hate it unless someone offers tangible proof that a coach or school is cheating it does me no benefit to assume they are.

Nothing is gained by assuming everyone cheats, but something is definitely lost.

[terryarms]

It's offensive because it lacks facts.

"Cheating has been rampant throughout EVERY reach of college basketball for decades"...

And yet you offer no proof whatsoever to this assumption, you just want us to accept it as fact..

I'm not basing my opinion on nothing, I spent many years involved with the AAU circuit and I know firsthand how recruiting works. The stuff that has come into the public light in the last 2 years is stuff that has been going on for a long, long time. Of course I understand if that's not good enough for you, I'm not foolish enough to divulge any more detail than that anyway.

I guess that's why I don't find it offensive, the illusion that programs are following the rules was shattered a long time ago for me. I accept that the game is played that way and I've had time to come to terms with that. I can understand if others find that too abrasive of an idea.

I think it's fine if you don't want to believe that, I'm not really interested in trying to sway your opinion on the matter. College sports are more fun if you believe that programs are adhering to the rules, so I have nothing to gain from taking that away from you. I'll just leave it at saying that I believe there is way more corruption in the college basketball world than most fans believe.

[CatFanOneMil]

It's offensive because it lacks facts.

"Cheating has been rampant throughout EVERY reach of college basketball for decades"...

And yet you offer no proof whatsoever to this assumption, you just want us to accept it as fact..

I'm not basing my opinion on nothing, I spent many years involved with the AAU circuit and I know firsthand how recruiting works. The stuff that has come into the public light in the last 2 years is stuff that has been going on for a long, long time. Of course I understand if that's not good enough for you, I'm not foolish enough to divulge any more detail than that anyway.

I guess that's why I don't find it offensive, the illusion that programs are following the rules was shattered a long time ago for me. I accept that the game is played that way and I've had time to come to terms with that.

I think it's fine if you don't want to believe that, I'm not really interested in trying to sway your opinion on the matter. College sports are more fun if you believe that programs are adhering to the rules, so I have nothing to gain from taking that away from you. I'll just leave it at saying that I believe there is way more corruption in the college basketball world than most fans believe.

I almost saw Bigfoot once...there's your proof.

[ByJoveByJingle]

I almost saw Bigfoot once...there's your proof.

Not quite the right analogy here. This guy is saying he had sex with Bigfoot. Personally I don’t want to see the evidence, nor am I in any position to tell him it was just a really hairy woman.

[terryarms]

I never offered proof of anything, nor did I say there was any. I said the opposite actually. I think you're setting up some straw man arguments to take your frustration out on.

And ByJoveByJingle, hairy women need love too.

[Chicat]

No way Miller knew Book went Benedict Arnold.

No way the shoe companies have not been paying kids or those close to the kids since the days of Lute

No way coaches didn’t know kids or someone close to them were getting paid

No way coaches cared who got paid or from whom (as long as it was a shoe repair not someone tied to our program)

No way Miller was asking the system for help in recruiting

Just things I assume and believe

I was step for step with you right up until that last one.

The ask was there. Of that I have no doubt, and I don’t really care.

CatFanOneMil mentioned Sean Miller’s reverence for the program builders who put Arizona on the map and I have no doubt he feels a great responsibility to continue their legacies, especially for Lute. That’s reason enough to ask for help in recruiting no matter where it comes from. If Nike has influence over a really good kid and can steer him to us, what is the problem?

Isn’t a winning team exactly what we all demand? Sounds to me like Sean Miller is doing exactly what we hired him to do.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's offensive because it lacks facts.

"Cheating has been rampant throughout EVERY reach of college basketball for decades"...

And yet you offer no proof whatsoever to this assumption, you just want us to accept it as fact..

I'm not basing my opinion on nothing, I spent many years involved with the AAU circuit and I know firsthand how recruiting works. The stuff that has come into the public light in the last 2 years is stuff that has been going on for a long, long time. Of course I understand if that's not good enough for you, I'm not foolish enough to divulge any more detail than that anyway.

I guess that's why I don't find it offensive, the illusion that programs are following the rules was shattered a long time ago for me. I accept that the game is played that way and I've had time to come to terms with that. I can understand if others find that too abrasive of an idea.

I think it's fine if you don't want to believe that, I'm not really interested in trying to sway your opinion on the matter. College sports are more fun if you believe that programs are adhering to the rules, so I have nothing to gain from taking that away from you. I'll just leave it at saying that I believe there is way more corruption in the college basketball world than most fans believe.

Personally, I agree money is all over the AAU game and involved with all top players. I don't find it makes it less fun, though.

If really talented kids are getting paid because they're really talented...that just seems like America to me. I actually like it better than the illusion of amateurism while coaches make millions and are the highest paid public employees in most states.

[azcat49]

Delete post

[azcat49]

No way Miller knew Book went Benedict Arnold.

No way the shoe companies have not been paying kids or those close to the kids since the days of Lute

No way coaches didn’t know kids or someone close to them were getting paid

No way coaches cared who got paid or from whom (as long as it was a shoe repair not someone tied to our program)

No way Miller was asking the system for help in recruiting

Just things I assume and believe

I was step for step with you right up until that last one.

The ask was there. Of that I have no doubt, and I don’t really care.

CatFanOneMil mentioned Sean Miller’s reverence for the program builders who put Arizona on the map and I have no doubt he feels a great responsibility to continue their legacies, especially for Lute. That’s reason enough to ask for help in recruiting no matter where it comes from. If Nike has influence over a really good kid and can steer him to us, what is the problem?

Isn’t a winning team exactly what we all demand? Sounds to me like Sean Miller is doing exactly what we hired him to do.

Oh I agree Chi but I do not believe he openly asked Nike for that help like Self is on tape doing.

I think Miller knows how the system works from his days as a player and as such was more able to work the system. I think this is why he has meticulous notes on things. He needed to build our brand and everything would take care of itself, that is until Book went rogue. And as we have all said that has been his only misstep

[CatFanOneMil]

I never offered proof of anything, nor did I say there was any. I said the opposite actually. I think you're setting up some straw man arguments to take your frustration out on.

And ByJoveByJingle, hairy women need love too.

I don't have any frustration here except the pontificating of people who want me to believe the worst about college basketball is supposed to be normal...I am just supposed to accept it with no evidence...hence the Bigfoot I almost saw has as much credibility...and I am suggesting it is not a simple matter of "personal opinion" because it creates an atmosphere where guilt is implied and no one can defend against it...that is not fair and without proof is detrimental to the conversation.

If you truly believe cheating and paying recruits is as rampant as you opine, why even watch the game? Its all rigged.

You might as well believe the Superbowl and Final Four are decided years in advance...thats not simply skepticism, it's morbid tin foil level nonsense.

[Chicat]

I never offered proof of anything, nor did I say there was any. I said the opposite actually. I think you're setting up some straw man arguments to take your frustration out on.

And ByJoveByJingle, hairy women need love too.

I don't have any frustration here except the pontificating of people who want me to believe the worst about college basketball is supposed to be normal...I am just supposed to accept it with no evidence...hence the Bigfoot I almost saw has as much credibility...and I am suggesting it is not a simple matter of "personal opinion" because it creates an atmosphere where guilt is implied and no one can defend against it...that is not fair and without proof is detrimental to the conversation.

If you truly believe cheating and paying recruits is as rampant as you opine, why even watch the game? Its all rigged.

You might as well believe the Superbowl and Final Four are decided years in advance...thats not simply skepticism, it's morbid tin foil level nonsense.

How is it rigged if players or their families/handlers get paid?

[azcat49]

I wish all the players and families got payed. Those other hangers on can go pound sand.

[CatFanOneMil]

I never offered proof of anything, nor did I say there was any. I said the opposite actually. I think you're setting up some straw man arguments to take your frustration out on.

And ByJoveByJingle, hairy women need love too.

I don't have any frustration here except the pontificating of people who want me to believe the worst about college basketball is supposed to be normal...I am just supposed to accept it with no evidence...hence the Bigfoot I almost saw has as much credibility...and I am suggesting it is not a simple matter of "personal opinion" because it creates an atmosphere where guilt is implied and no one can defend against it...that is not fair and without proof is detrimental to the conversation.

If you truly believe cheating and paying recruits is as rampant as you opine, why even watch the game? Its all rigged.

You might as well believe the Superbowl and Final Four are decided years in advance...thats not simply skepticism, it's morbid tin foil level nonsense.

How is it rigged if players or their families/handlers get paid?

Because it violates NCAA rules and if everyone is doing it then there is a massive coverup including everyone...that called a rigged system.

I cannot simply accept the narrative that everyone is doing it...there are a TON of players that would never get a dime, players that WANT playing time...a simple anonymous call and a spot opens up in the team, and this happens how often?

Never. Fucking not once.

[Chicat]

I’m still not sure how it’s a rigged system from the standpoint of competitive balance.

Great players will always be interested in playing for high profile programs. Whether their second cousin gets $8k to tell them that Sean Miller is going to turn them into the next Aaron Gordon or not.... that kid probably wasn’t going to become Longwood College’s best player since Kevin Duckworth.

There’s so much money flowing through college basketball ABOVE the table that perverts the supposed authentically amateur nature of the game it’s a wonder a purist would follow it at all. What difference does it make if some flows under? Kansas is getting $140M from Adidas. How much did the Jayhawk players get from them?

[azgreg]

I'd go with corrupt before I went with rigged.

[azcat49]

Yea I am not following how it is rigged. All the shoe companies wantis for the player to go to the programs they sponsor. It’s the coaches job to make their program the most attractive Nike or adidas program. Even with that, we see teams with lower rated players win the prize or take out a favorite. The one and done tourney is the great equalizer

[terryarms]

If you truly believe cheating and paying recruits is as rampant as you opine, why even watch the game? Its all rigged.

You might as well believe the Superbowl and Final Four are decided years in advance...thats not simply skepticism, it's morbid tin foil level nonsense.

The games aren't rigged. Programs cheat to stack the deck in their favor, but the game isn't won by talent alone.

That superbowl line is exactly what I meant when I said you were setting up straw man arguments.

[CatFanOneMil]

If you truly believe cheating and paying recruits is as rampant as you opine, why even watch the game? Its all rigged.

You might as well believe the Superbowl and Final Four are decided years in advance...thats not simply skepticism, it's morbid tin foil level nonsense.

The games aren't rigged. Programs cheat to stack the deck in their favor, but the game isn't won by talent alone.

That superbowl line is exactly what I meant when I said you were setting up straw man arguments.

And I'm telling you its basically the same level of conspiracy nonsense to believe everyone is cheating, I have yet to see one shred of evidence from ANYONE here that all these players/families are getting paid...its a nice meme to trout out and assume everyone buys into it, but it is not "common sense" to accept things without any visible proof.

"All the schools do it on one level or another and the head coaches just turn a blind eye"...I am saying that is nonsense, and its quite hypocritical to suggest that college players SHOULD be paid if they are already all being paid under the table.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

We have the FBI investigating the entire NCAA mens basketball program claiming they have the playbook and so far we've gotten just a scant handful of secondary AAU runners getting caught.

THOSE are the FACTS.

Innuendo is not proof.

[prh]

at how frequently we have this exact discussion, almost post for post. No one is going to change their opinions, on either side

[Longhorned]

Speaking of repeating the exact discussion, why shouldn't student-athletes be paid? Especially by shoe companies? It's a different question if corporations or politicians are hurting people or the environment by flouting rules and regulations.

If anyone is rigging anything, it's those who are raking in the dollars while creating and enforcing rules to ensure that the student-athletes necessary for the windfall share none of money.

[ByJoveByJingle]

at how frequently we have this exact discussion, almost post for post. No one is going to change their opinions, on either side

Personally, @terryarms has made me reconsider my opinion on the hairy woman issue.

[terryarms]

Personally, @terryarms has made me reconsider my opinion on the hairy woman issue.

This has now become the most productive message board argument I've ever been a part of. Thank you for being open minded.

[AZCatGirl]

So to sum it up:

Self is the NCAA poster boy, but it's no biggie because they just need someone to make an example out of.

Miller is the dirtiest man in college basketball and can't get his comeuppance soon enough.


Boy, those 12 or so games on the ESPN networks sure will be fun.

[Longhorned]

I’m still set on the hairless sister of a good friend.

[CatFanOneMil]

Sooo apparently the NCAA is suspending the response deadlines for these cases...

Seems interesting considering that Kansas gets to sit in the shadow of football season with their letter and other schools are probably going to get theirs in the middle of the basketball season...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/c ... story.html

[Jefe]

I was watching Millers presser today

Is the full presser up somewhere? I cant find it anywhere

[84Cat]

I was watching Millers presser today

Is the full presser up somewhere? I cant find it anywhere

[/quote]

[Jefe]

just saw it in the other thread, thanks!

[YoDeFoe]

Georgia Tech just got a post season ban + loss of scholarships and four years probation.

Impermissible benefits provided to recruits by two boosters, in coordination with a head coach.

Kansas is super fucked.

Also, and this is going to be crucial: there is no evidence that an Arizona player or recruit was provided impermissible benefits.

[PHXCATS]

Georgia Tech just got a post season ban + loss of scholarships and four years probation.

Impermissible benefits provided to recruits by two boosters, in coordination with a head coach.

Kansas is super fucked.

Also, and this is going to be crucial: there is no evidence that an Arizona player or recruit was provided impermissible benefits.

Well said. Also a crucial note, there is no evidence that Sean Miller, Mark Phelps, Joe Pasternack or anyone else associated with Arizona besides Book Richardson broke any law or NCAA rule. And even that with NCAA rules, Book Richardson is in a gray area at worst.

[baycat93]

Georgia Tech just got a post season ban + loss of scholarships and four years probation.

Impermissible benefits provided to recruits by two boosters, in coordination with a head coach.

Kansas is super fucked.

Also, and this is going to be crucial: there is no evidence that an Arizona player or recruit was provided impermissible benefits.

Nor (as far as we know) did book take any recruits or players to strip club to meet a former alum and nba player

[YoDeFoe]

Georgia Tech just got a post season ban + loss of scholarships and four years probation.

Impermissible benefits provided to recruits by two boosters, in coordination with a head coach.

Kansas is super fucked.

Also, and this is going to be crucial: there is no evidence that an Arizona player or recruit was provided impermissible benefits.

Nor (as far as we know) did book take any recruits or players to strip club to meet a former alum and nba player

And this is why Coach Miller hired Dave Miller to fill a newly created position on the coaching staff to oversee on-campus recruiting visits. Duties below:

Primary Video Coordinator for Men’s Basketball
Coordinate scouting of opponents with Coaching staff members
Serve as the primary liaison with Compliance to all visitors at practices and games
Serve as the On-Campus Recruiting Coordinator
Assist in all aspects of the day-to-day activities and development of recruiting
In consultation with the Assistant Athletic Director, Men’s Basketball Operations Serve as the Point of Contact with Athletics
Compliance regarding NCAA, PAC-12 and institutional rules associated with the recruiting process
Coordinate with the Compliance Office and oversee all paperwork for all official and unofficial visits
Develop Recruiting videos and presentations
Coordinate donor related events
Provide assistance to the head men’s basketball coach as assigned