Sumlin’s future - poll question

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:43 pm

How do you feel about Sumlin future at Arizona? I usually try to give a coach 4 years to make a positive step forward. Things have gone badly with few improvements. I think Sumlin has 1 year to get it fixed before I’m fully off. I understand money is an issue, but I’m talking about my personal buy-in with Arizona football.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:48 pm

With how low-talent this team was when he got here, I've always thought you have to give him 4 full years before serious talk of a change.

So i voted the 2-3 years option.

Doesn't mean i'm at all happy with how things have gone so far, I just don't think it's completely fair to the man to not let him get a full team of his own recruits on board, given that we weren't stocked with talent when he arrived.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:55 pm

I agree with POM. He really has only one class as all he did the first year was welcome RR’s guys. We have a huge talent void that is compounded by poor preparation and coaching. If he can get better talent here we should be back to our 7 wins with the odd good season and odd bad one. I voted to give him a couple more years

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:08 pm

Here’s the thing...

If he doesn’t start killing it in recruiting (and he hasn’t) and he can’t coach up the 2-star talent he’s reeling in, is four years too much?

It feels like it’s just pushing our eventual rebuild another year down the line.

We did that with Stoops. And granted, it got us back to back 8-5 seasons ... eventually..., but is that the kind of mediocrity we are striving for?

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:21 pm

There hasn’t been even so much as a blip on the recruiting radar. There is no evidence that he is even close to being as good of a coach as RR or Tomey. If we had all the money in the world, move on. Every other coach that comes in and moves the needle does so almost immediately. Not necessarily in wins, but in the vibe surrounding the program. We are moribund at this point.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:12 am

It's never a good sign when you keep firing coaches and keep thinking back to last guy we had with thoughts of "It really wasn't that bad when he was our coach"

We suck at hiring football coaches.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:33 am

No more fired coaches. Get a young and hungry coach like Larry Smith and Dick Tomey from a smaller program. Has worked pretty well with the basketball program too.

If they move on like Larry Smith so be it.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:05 am

Merkin wrote:No more fired coaches. Get a young and hungry coach like Larry Smith and Dick Tomey from a smaller program. Has worked pretty well with the basketball program too.

If they move on like Larry Smith so be it.

This. Emphatically.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:23 am

No fired retreads. No unproven coordinators.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:36 am

PJ Johnson is apparently tweeting that he "can see so many transferring from zona after the season". This is very disturbing. First, that a current player would seem to not be on board and second, if it becomes true, it indicates we have a big problem.

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more run here. I'm hoping this is just because he's feeling bad about our DC being fired and hopefully the guys will get over it and realize it's a results oriented business.

Is the local press, to which I don't subscribe, running any information about this situation?

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:51 am

Carcassdragger wrote:PJ Johnson is apparently tweeting that he "can see so many transferring from zona after the season". This is very disturbing. First, that a current player would seem to not be on board and second, if it becomes true, it indicates we have a big problem.

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more run here. I'm hoping this is just because he's feeling bad about our DC being fired and hopefully the guys will get over it and realize it's a results oriented business.

Is the local press, to which I don't subscribe, running any information about this situation?

Posted in the 2019 Season thread:

Irish27 wrote:

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:21 am

Who might be leaving that would impact us negatively? Seems most of them are RR recruits that would be MWC level guys. Sumlin was brought in to increase the talent level (and he hasn't) so I guess I am not worried until we lose a player that was PAC level caliber.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:24 am

We should be in on EVERY juco. We need immediate help.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:45 am

Chicat wrote:We should be in on EVERY juco. We need immediate help.

They seem to have offered juco defensive player available so far.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:03 pm

azcat49 wrote:I agree with POM. He really has only one class as all he did the first year was welcome RR’s guys. We have a huge talent void that is compounded by poor preparation and coaching. If he can get better talent here we should be back to our 7 wins with the odd good season and odd bad one. I voted to give him a couple more years

I'd feel like that if Sumlin was recruiting well. His recruiting has been RR level and his coaching has been significantly below RR.

I think we have to give him a third year, but it's because of money, not his performance. His performance has been pretty much what you'd expect given the outcome for him at aTm.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:20 pm

Recruiting is very hard work. Even Tomey cut back on it, with expected results.

aTm payed Sumlin $10M when they fired him, and the UA will owe him the same if he gets canned this season.

So either work really really hard to get piddly bonuses, or just spend your time drinking, not work that hard, and make bank getting fired.

Buyouts per https://herosports.com/college-football ... alary-ahah" target="_blank

2019: $10 million
2020: $5 million
2021: $3 million
2022: $1 million

On-field bonuses:

9 regular-season wins: $125,000.

10 regular-season wins $150,000.

11 regular-season wins: $250,000.

12 regular-season wins: $350,000.

Pac-12 South Championship: $100,000

Pac-12 Championship: $200,000.

Playoff appearance: $500,000.

Playoff win: $1 million.

Appearance in a New Year's Six game (Rose, Sugar, Orange, Cotton, Peach or Fiesta): $100,000.

Win in a major bowl game: $200,000.

Appearance in a non-NY6 game: $25,000.

Top-10 ranking in final AP Top 25: $75,000

11-15 ranking: $50,000

16-25 ranking: $25,000

Pac-12 Coach of the year: $50,000

AP National Coach of the Year: $100,000

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:09 pm

Buyouts are total bullshit.

IrishAzCat · Post by **IrishAzCat** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Coaches should get a small base salary and get paid a big bonus per win. Make these people earn their money if they are such great coaches.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:39 pm

IrishAzCat wrote:Coaches should get a small base salary and get paid a big bonus per win. Make these people earn their money if they are such great coaches.

That’s what I am taking about. 500k base, 250k per win.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:35 pm

We had coaches on the sideline literally fighting. Embarrassing shit.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:03 pm

azcat49 wrote:Who might be leaving that would impact us negatively? Seems most of them are RR recruits that would be MWC level guys. Sumlin was brought in to increase the talent level (and he hasn't) so I guess I am not worried until we lose a player that was PAC level caliber.

You've got to be kidding. Not sure if I should even attempt to address such an inane statement. How about Gunnell, Schooler, Fields, Taylor, Honeycutt, or any of the many youngsters in the D backfield or offensive line that are getting valuable experience.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 pm

btfd16 wrote:We had coaches on the sideline literally fighting. Embarrassing shit.

Yeah, not a good look, especially when your other look is getting buttfucked (again) on national TV.

What's the story on that? Announcers didn't say a word.

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:09 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:With how low-talent this team was when he got here, I've always thought you have to give him 4 full years before serious talk of a change.

So i voted the 2-3 years option.

Doesn't mean i'm at all happy with how things have gone so far, I just don't think it's completely fair to the man to not let him get a full team of his own recruits on board, given that we weren't stocked with talent when he arrived.

Chicat wrote:Here’s the thing...

If he doesn’t start killing it in recruiting (and he hasn’t) and he can’t coach up the 2-star talent he’s reeling in, is four years too much?

It feels like it’s just pushing our eventual rebuild another year down the line.

We did that with Stoops. And granted, it got us back to back 8-5 seasons ... eventually..., but is that the kind of mediocrity we are striving for?

I had both thoughts after the Oregon game and is the reason I wanted to get the temperature of the board. I settled on 1-2 years because while the talent wouldn’t likely change the product can’t continue to be this bad. I’m not sure after two years if Arizona has made a step forward, and that’s a problem.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:54 am

I was ready for him to be gone immediately after the ASsU game last year. I don't know if I have EVER seen a worse job of coaching and decision making. Anyone who thinks the coaching will get better is kidding himself/herself. So if money was no object, why keep him for even one more minute? It seems like no one on this board thinks the recruiting will get better. And I haven't seen anyone say the coaching will get better. 1, 2, 3, or 4 more years won't change that.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:02 am

BBQ wildcat wrote:I was ready for him to be gone immediately after the ASsU game last year. I don't know if I have EVER seen a worse job of coaching and decision making.

What really pissed me off in the post game presser was that Sumlin took none of the blame, he threw Tate under the boss.

Like has been said, the only think the prevent defense prevents is winning. Same with the prevent offense.

Never understood that. You take what has been working for 3 quarters, and change everything.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:11 am

Merkin wrote:
BBQ wildcat wrote:I was ready for him to be gone immediately after the ASsU game last year. I don't know if I have EVER seen a worse job of coaching and decision making.
What really pissed me off in the post game presser was that Sumlin took none of the blame, he threw Tate under the boss.

Like has been said, the only think the prevent defense prevents is winning. Same with the prevent offense.

Never understood that. You take what has been working for 3 quarters, and change everything.

Yeah, his post-game presser showed exactly the kind of sleaze he is. But the decision-making started way before the 4th quarter. How many times did he go for 2 point conversion after touchdowns? 2? 3?. Kicking for the extra points (if successful) would have ended up putting the game out of reach, even WITH the 3rd and 4th quarter horrible decisions.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:44 pm

Carcassdragger wrote:
btfd16 wrote:We had coaches on the sideline literally fighting. Embarrassing shit.

Yeah, not a good look, especially when your other look is getting buttfucked (again) on national TV.

What's the story on that? Announcers didn't say a word.

cliff notes: happened when we got the 12 man penalty then the next play we had 10 on the field. They got in each other's faces and just started screaming and going at it throwing hands. shit was insane. Next thing Hank's headset is on the numbers.

I am shocked it was not caught.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:19 pm

azcat49 wrote:Who might be leaving that would impact us negatively?.

J.J. Taylor is gone.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:51 pm

catgrad97 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Who might be leaving that would impact us negatively?.
J.J. Taylor is gone.

Going NFL. Hope he gets picked up and has a long career.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:55 pm

catgrad97 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Who might be leaving that would impact us negatively?.
J.J. Taylor is gone.

Yea but not sure if that was driven by Sumlin or the fact he has been here 4 years. Big impact for sure but hope he gets his $$$$$

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:02 pm

azcat49 wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Who might be leaving that would impact us negatively?.
J.J. Taylor is gone.
Yea but not sure if that was driven by Sumlin or the fact he has been here 4 years. Big impact for sure but hope he gets his $$$$$

A RB of any size can only take so many hits. JJ is listed at 5'6" but looks more like 5'4". He would be gone no matter who was coach.

Look at Kadeem Carey who also left after 3 years. Only 3 years in the league.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:05 pm

100 - 0

Robert A Booey · Post by **Robert A Booey** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:33 pm

Never thought that I would be missing RR.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:14 pm

Robert A Booey wrote:Never thought that I would be missing RR.

I call BS if the only thing you miss was his Offense nothing more.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:47 pm

cordera89 wrote:
Robert A Booey wrote:Never thought that I would be missing RR.
I call BS if the only thing you miss was his Offense nothing more.

You want him to miss the excessive drinking and the adultery instead?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:49 pm

ByJoveByJingle wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
Robert A Booey wrote:Never thought that I would be missing RR.
I call BS if the only thing you miss was his Offense nothing more.
You want him to miss the excessive drinking and the adultery instead?

Are we talking about RR or KS?

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:08 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
ByJoveByJingle wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
Robert A Booey wrote:Never thought that I would be missing RR.
I call BS if the only thing you miss was his Offense nothing more.
You want him to miss the excessive drinking and the adultery instead?

Are we talking about RR or KS?

Yes.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:14 pm

I am going to make a prediction. We will fire Sumlin after the season ends. Everyone knows this is not working and Heeke came up with the dough for the buy out. That is why he got his extension. Sumlin will be let go. This is just a prediction not anything remotely inside

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:17 pm

azcat49 wrote:I am going to make a prediction. We will fire Sumlin after the season ends. Everyone knows this is not working and Heeke came up with the dough for the buy out. That is why he got his extension. Sumlin will be let go. This is just a prediction not anything remotely inside

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:26 pm

azcat49 wrote:I am going to make a prediction. We will fire Sumlin after the season ends. Everyone knows this is not working and Heeke came up with the dough for the buy out. That is why he got his extension. Sumlin will be let go. This is just a prediction not anything remotely inside

Makes sense since Scheer is hearing money talk.

related of course:

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:42 pm

I know it probably won't happen but I'm hoping Sumlin is fired before the ASU game; tomorrow would be great. The program needs to go in a different direction and the sooner he's fired the better IMHO. The coaching is bad enough but you couple that with horrible recruiting and it's just inexcusable ineptitude at so many levels. Pulling the plug on the football program seems more and more like a plausible solution. The Mackovic years were bad but as a fan this seems even worse. Never thought I'd see the program hit rock bottom. Never thought I'd view a game against ASU as un-winnable either.

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:39 pm

azcat49 wrote:I am going to make a prediction. We will fire Sumlin after the season ends. Everyone knows this is not working and Heeke came up with the dough for the buy out. That is why he got his extension. Sumlin will be let go. This is just a prediction not anything remotely inside

On one hand Sumlin would be let go. On the other hand, Heeke gets to pick another head coach. Sounds almost like a no win situation.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:14 am

Hopefully Heeke has grown some stones and would tell the qb and players to pound sand.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:29 am

OSUCat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:I am going to make a prediction. We will fire Sumlin after the season ends. Everyone knows this is not working and Heeke came up with the dough for the buy out. That is why he got his extension. Sumlin will be let go. This is just a prediction not anything remotely inside
On one hand Sumlin would be let go. On the other hand, Heeke gets to pick another head coach. Sounds almost like a no win situation.

From what I'm hearing Sumlin wasn't' Heeke's pick. Heeke wanted Ken N.

btfd16 · Post by **btfd16** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:22 pm

cordera89 wrote:
Robert A Booey wrote:Never thought that I would be missing RR.
I call BS if the only thing you miss was his Offense nothing more.

I miss bowl games and winning records. Was he a long term answer? No. Is he better? Yes.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:58 pm

Sigh...

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:02 pm

Merkin wrote:Sigh...

I have no idea what this means.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:03 pm

It means Jason Harris won't be coming to Arizona.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:15 pm

azgreg wrote:It means Jason Harris won't be coming to Arizona.

Maybe if we change coaches.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:31 pm

Well Chuck would have had to have a part in that.

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How much time are you giving Sumlin to right the ship?