The 2019-2020 Season Thread

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:29 pm

He didn’t get the ball to nico many times during the games after taking possession

I counted at least 4 time when he was bringing the ball up the floor with nico in the court at the same time.

Unacceptable, completely messes up the point of attack

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:02 am

I heard that Baylor asked us to move game to a later start.
Arizona said no. I guess because of hotel and flight issues.
But I have to wonder if a later start would have helped the team.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:10 am

Well we charter so not sure how tough that would be. Biggest issue to me would be how the network would react to having the time moved. That’s a big hole in their programming. Not sure they would allow it

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:01 am

Postmaster wrote:I heard that Baylor asked us to move game to a later start.
Arizona said no. I guess because of hotel and flight issues.
But I have to wonder if a later start would have helped the team.

They asked us to switch game dates. That's totally different.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:43 am

We were 2/18 from 3 and it was a one possession game in the last minute. Need to play better but I do think it says something to play that poorly against a good team and still make a run to steal the game.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:44 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Postmaster wrote:I heard that Baylor asked us to move game to a later start.
Arizona said no. I guess because of hotel and flight issues.
But I have to wonder if a later start would have helped the team.
They asked us to switch game dates. That's totally different.

Oh
I guess I was given incorrect info.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:47 am

Worries me we shot so poorly against what I consider at best a round of 16 team and likely a one win team in the tourney. It seems they took their chances with everyone BUT Nico and Zeke and dared the other guys to beat them

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:21 am

Gonzaga@UW today at 4pm Pacific, for those wanting a sneak peek at next weekend's opponent.

I like UW in this one, fwiw.

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:30 am

azcat49 wrote:Worries me we shot so poorly against what I consider at best a round of 16 team and likely a one win team in the tourney. It seems they took their chances with everyone BUT Nico and Zeke and dared the other guys to beat them

I think this year's Arizona is a sweet 16 team as well tbh. But with the HUGE caveat that Nico Mannion (and maybe another guard) could get hot and carry us to a final four or natty. The tournament is always about guard play.

As far as shooting poorly, Miller teams have almost always come out tight, slightly scared in big games. The slow starts aren't a bug, they're a feature at this point. I wish it was different but this seems like it'll continue happening.

On the season as a whole, we have a top tier offense currently and sub par defense. Ideally of course you would want to be top 20/great in both. But if you could only pick one to be elite at, I would rather be elite/great offensively than defensively.

imo you could always improve defensively with more discipline, more hustle and so on, especially bearing down on defense in the tournament. Offensively, you never really can make a huge jump and dramatically improve (not talking about efficiency) over the course of a season. You either have firepower or you don't.

This is the key to a deep run like Duke, Villanova, North Carolina have used the past couple of years, great offense and good enough defense.

Nico Mannion is our roof

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:41 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: As far as shooting poorly, Miller teams have almost always come out tight, slightly scared in big games. The slow starts aren't a bug, they're a feature at this point. I wish it was different but this seems like it'll continue happening.

yep

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:43 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
RondaeShimmy wrote: As far as shooting poorly, Miller teams have almost always come out tight, slightly scared in big games. The slow starts aren't a bug, they're a feature at this point. I wish it was different but this seems like it'll continue happening.
yep

I'm not saying either of you guys are wrong, but is there statistical analysis to prove this or is that just what we feel as fans?

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:00 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
RondaeShimmy wrote: As far as shooting poorly, Miller teams have almost always come out tight, slightly scared in big games. The slow starts aren't a bug, they're a feature at this point. I wish it was different but this seems like it'll continue happening.
yep
I'm not saying either of you guys are wrong, but is there statistical analysis to prove this or is that just what we feel as fans?

Anecdotally it certainly seems true and I made that point to a friend yesterday - I assume it's Miller's intense demeanor that weighs on the players, a characteristic of his that amplifies with pressure.

Not sure that I can do the analytical work to prove it out but I suppose it'd be to spot check big games from our good teams and see the early results.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:17 pm

Correlate sweat shirt footage to points down in first half/10minutes in big meaningful games.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:28 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
RondaeShimmy wrote: As far as shooting poorly, Miller teams have almost always come out tight, slightly scared in big games. The slow starts aren't a bug, they're a feature at this point. I wish it was different but this seems like it'll continue happening.
yep
I'm not saying either of you guys are wrong, but is there statistical analysis to prove this or is that just what we feel as fans?

It’s the same gut instinct that told them that Miller intentionally slowed down pace of play and held his guards back. So, no—there isn’t. For every Wisconsin game I can find you a Duke game. It’s just a ‘woe is me, we are the only ones who have bad shooting nights under pressure’ sensibility. When we have crazy games like in the Maui tournament last year and players shoot beyond their abilities, that is quickly forgotten or swept under the carpet. When we smoke a Lonzo Ball led UCLA at Pauley, that doesn’t count.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:33 pm

Good point BJBJ. I’m complicit in this.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:57 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Worries me we shot so poorly against what I consider at best a round of 16 team and likely a one win team in the tourney. It seems they took their chances with everyone BUT Nico and Zeke and dared the other guys to beat them
I think this year's Arizona is a sweet 16 team as well tbh. But with the HUGE caveat that Nico Mannion (and maybe another guard) could get hot and carry us to a final four or natty. The tournament is always about guard play.

As far as shooting poorly, Miller teams have almost always come out tight, slightly scared in big games. The slow starts aren't a bug, they're a feature at this point. I wish it was different but this seems like it'll continue happening.

On the season as a whole, we have a top tier offense currently and sub par defense. Ideally of course you would want to be top 20/great in both. But if you could only pick one to be elite at, I would rather be elite/great offensively than defensively.

imo you could always improve defensively with more discipline, more hustle and so on, especially bearing down on defense in the tournament. Offensively, you never really can make a huge jump and dramatically improve (not talking about efficiency) over the course of a season. You either have firepower or you don't.

This is the key to a deep run like Duke, Villanova, North Carolina have used the past couple of years, great offense and good enough defense.

Nico Mannion is our roof

I do agree with most of this. Not so sold on the Miller teams shooting tight. I am very concerned at our inside play. We will have nights like we did shooting the three (both good and woefully bad) but we really struggled to finish inside and to me, Jeters lack of physicality doubled with his lack of athleticism is a concern.

For every off night Any of our FF teams had from the outside we had guys very capable of finishing low or getting it off the glass and putting it back in. We really struggled with that Saturday.

Of course we have further tests down the road to prove this concern wrong and hopefully we get back to our normal efficient self offensively

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:36 am

the "weight" of Miller is directly related to the player.

Nico Mannion is not going to feel "tight" or afraid to shoot. Ever. Zo Trier never felt an ounce of Miller's "heavy" on any of his shots. I doubt Josh Green will think twice this season if he is open to shoot.

Maybe that weight is good, is a reminder of who should and shouldn't shoot. I think most teams with expectations come out with that fine line that can be tripped. If they are hitting early, they fly to a huge lead, the rim seems bigger than the ocean (think Duke 2nd half), and we just know they played great. If they start missing shots early, and can't generate offense any other way, shots in a deficit get tight.

But shooters shoot. Nico missed a ton in Waco, and he wasn't about to pass on the next shot he thought he could make. We just remember the worst. And two of our recent early exits, Wichita State and Buffalo, came against teams that had quick backcourts that pushed our suspect guard play way outside of where we would normally start an offense. All the talk of zoning us...I wish Buffalo and Wichita St had zoned us. Instead, we were starting our offense 30 feet out. Those weren't tight shots...those were rushed shots.

Players aren't going to be affected by stomping and snorting on the sideline. If you aren't seeing Miller ripping players out of the game after one bad shot, they aren't feeling tight. If/when he does that, you can identify a player shrinking under the coach's pressure. But, in all reality, if you can't handle that, you probably shouldn't be out there. Miller has never rode his starters/core rotation like that with shooting. Blow a defensive assignment and you might get yanked. But he has never put that kind of pressure on shooters.

prh · Post by **prh** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:41 am

We also led Wisconsin at half both times and those seemed pretty big games

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:00 pm

prh wrote:We also led Wisconsin at half both times and those seemed pretty big games

We remember the slow starts more than the fast starts.

We led Xavier at the half in 2017. We were fine in 17 vs UCLA at Pauley and vs UCLA and Oregon in the Pac tourney. Some of slow start is obviously subjective, but I tend to think it's overrated for Arizona.

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:25 pm

azcat49 wrote:Worries me we shot so poorly against what I consider at best a round of 16 team and likely a one win team in the tourney. It seems they took their chances with everyone BUT Nico and Zeke and dared the other guys to beat them

Obviously the shooting was horrendous. I wonder how much time the team got to shoot in that building. All of the shots from all players were short front rim, especially early in the game. The one Nico made he stepped into and got a little more power behind and the one Baker made had an unusually high arc (imo) on his shot. Felt like they were struggling with depth and just could not adjust. Will be interesting to see how they do @ chase center.

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:59 pm

baycat93 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Worries me we shot so poorly against what I consider at best a round of 16 team and likely a one win team in the tourney. It seems they took their chances with everyone BUT Nico and Zeke and dared the other guys to beat them
Obviously the shooting was horrendous. I wonder how much time the team got to shoot in that building. All of the shots from all players were short front rim, especially early in the game. The one Nico made he stepped into and got a little more power behind and the one Baker made had an unusually high arc (imo) on his shot. Felt like they were struggling with depth and just could not adjust. Will be interesting to see how they do @ chase center.

I saw the same thing. And posted in the other thread with the same observation before seeing your comment. Sorry for the repeated thoughts!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:49 am

Not to overlook Omaha, but huge game on Saturday. Huge.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:46 pm

Didn't get a chance to watch the Baylor game live, which ultimately probably would've raised my blood pressure and been responsible for a few weeks off my lifespan. Some observations:

Christian Koloko played really well defensively -- had two really good blocks and played with poise on offense. On the downside, he didn't record a single rebound. That's alarming considering his size and he played nearly 12 minutes.

Chase Jeter: He played small and cowered from contact. It's no wonder he shot 1-5 from the floor. His misses were killers because they were all point blank shots set up by nice passes. On the plus side, he hit 9 of 10 FTs.

Zeke Nnaji: he got out hustled and outfought for defensive rebounds. The reaching foul on him with two minutes left in a one point game with 2 seconds on the shot clock was horrendous. A total bailout out call by the ref. The proper no call ends with Arizona likely gaining possession with a chance to take the lead.

Dylan Smith: No one has been a bigger critic of Smith than me. I will say he continues to play solid defense and his length causes issues for opponents. But he committed two really bad fouls and took some bad shots. 1-8 from the field had a lot to do with his shot selection. He kept the ball and missed a contested shot on an easy 3 on 2 fast break. He had one nice straight line drive that ended with a three point play. Eliminate the bad shots and maybe he shoots 1-3. His bad shots are like turnovers -- in fact a few of them led to immediate Baylor fast break points.

If Arizona could morph the best qualities of Koloko, Jeter and Ira Lee...well, you'd probably have a top 10 lottery pick. Lee grabbed 7 boards in just 12 minutes of action and attacked the rim -- but he still doesn't finish well and has his shot blocked frequently. He needs to knock down his FTs.

Baylor just played with more energy -- getting those 50/50 balls and second chance opportunities. Baylor's six three pointers all came either after a scramble for a loose ball or with the shot clock running out and a player pulling the trigger.

I still feel Arizona is one more player away from having everything it needs. And I'm biased, but I think Doutrive would eventually been the replacement for Dylan Smith. Maybe Baker can step up over the course of the season. If he can, this team can make a run. If Smith is still a big part of the equation and getting 25-30 minutes of PT, then I think we're gonna be frustrated.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:51 pm

Baylor with another win over a top 15 team. Finish the year strong and they could be a 1/2 seed

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:56 pm

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:57 pm

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/N ... 0299920_10" target="_blank

Nico 8
Zeke 13
Josh 14

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:12 pm

That was a get well game.

Outrebounded them by 15. 46% from 3. Only 9 to's. Held them to under 30% from the field and under 32% from 3.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:45 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:That was a get well game.

Outrebounded them by 15. 46% from 3. Only 9 to's. Held them to under 30% from the field and under 32% from 3.

Now carry it into Saturday.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:17 am

Big game pod just did an episode on UA/Gonzaga. About to listen to it. But they are more of a breakdown type pod than silly like Titus and Tate.

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:14 am

Up to #12 on Kenpom, ahead of Baylor by one weirdly.

Gonzaga is #8 and Arizona is currently a 3(ish) point favorite because of home court.

Hopefully our shooting carries over from yesterday and Zeke who has been struggling turns it around. I think he's less likely to be double teamed by Gonzaga. Because he's struggled lately because of double teams and has clearly lost some confidence.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:14 am

SunnyAZ wrote:Big game pod just did an episode on UA/Gonzaga. About to listen to it. But they are more of a breakdown type pod than silly like Titus and Tate.

One of the things they mentioned is that we are among the 10 teams who have declined the most from last year in expected points per shot. Which just means we take a lot of midrange shots this year compared to last year. And we are the only team of the ten who has gotten better offensively (more points per possession than last year). Obviously Zeke and Nico are probably the most responsible for the midrange attempts, which is fine cause they seem to make every one lol. But I still think Josh should cut them out unless they are wide open towards the end of the shot clock.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:27 am

My first McKale Beer! $10 for a 24oz Modelo/Blue Moon. I think it was $8 or $9 for a Miller/Bud Latte

And yes they still have $3 soda/tea refills on old cups

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:10 am

RondaeShimmy wrote:Up to #12 on Kenpom, ahead of Baylor by one weirdly.

Gonzaga is #8 and Arizona is currently a 3(ish) point favorite because of home court.

Hopefully our shooting carries over from yesterday and Zeke who has been struggling turns it around. I think he's less likely to be double teamed by Gonzaga. Because he's struggled lately because of double teams and has clearly lost some confidence.

Our D has been trending up from 91.8 to 90.7. That's a good sign. If we could end the year even slightly under 90, that's a tremendously positive predictor for the tourney.

Offensively, I hope being at home will make shooting easier.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:13 am

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:23 am

Seems like a down year for the conference then. Only think 2 real locks for the tournament.

SabinoDrifter · Post by **SabinoDrifter** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:26 am

Jefe wrote:My first McKale Beer! $10 for a 24oz Modelo/Blue Moon. I think it was $8 or $9 for a Miller/Bud Latte

And yes they still have $3 soda/tea refills on old cups

[img]imagine clipped

They added Dragoon IPA to the tap list and I'm in heaven. Also, you're a few seats down from my neighbors tickets.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:31 am

azgreg wrote:

It really shocks me UW is that low. They beat Baylor at a neutral site and they're 7-2 with the only 2 losses being to top 20 teams.

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:47 am

The Pac 12 conference is still ridiculously weak conference despite the top ⅓ being better and better as a whole

But it's still a distant 6th, the SEC taking a step back this year makes the distance from the top 5 closer than in years past

The AAC has also been climbing over the years and might catch up but UCONN leaving for the Big East will hurt

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:59 am

SabinoDrifter wrote:They added Dragoon IPA to the tap list and I'm in heaven.

I did not see that and I didn't know we could get beers at the main food concourse upstairs now. Lady checked our IDs but said we need to go get them checked near the Hall of Fame next time. Thats probably where other beer options are. That line was 30 mins long last time I tried.

Guess theres no point in sneaking in mini bottles any more...

SabinoDrifter wrote:Also, you're a few seats down from my neighbors tickets.

I got these tickets from Rich Rods neighbor. Row 14, not bad

Unfortunately Im stuck with nose bleeds for Gonzaga. Hoping for a sparse student section so we can move down

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:40 pm

Beat the Zags.

SabinoDrifter · Post by **SabinoDrifter** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Jefe wrote:
SabinoDrifter wrote:They added Dragoon IPA to the tap list and I'm in heaven.
I did not see that and I didn't know we could get beers at the main food concourse upstairs now. Lady checked our IDs but said we need to go get them checked near the Hall of Fame next time. Thats probably where other beer options are. That line was 30 mins long last time I tried.

Guess theres no point in sneaking in mini bottles any more...
SabinoDrifter wrote:Also, you're a few seats down from my neighbors tickets.
I got these tickets from Rich Rods neighbor. Row 14, not bad

Unfortunately Im stuck with nose bleeds for Gonzaga. Hoping for a sparse student section so we can move down

Yes, better beer options are outside by the Hall of Fame and the line normally moves quickly. Still some kinks they need to iron out, but process is getting better game to game.

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:57 am

SunnyAZ wrote:Big game pod just did an episode on UA/Gonzaga. About to listen to it. But they are more of a breakdown type pod than silly like Titus and Tate.

Listened to this, and certainly more in depth. The first half is almost all Arizona breakdown. Would recommend, here's a link

https://podcasts.apple.com/gh/podcast/a ... 0459393720" target="_blank

Also they reference two tweets they made, here they are so you don't have to find them like I did

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:56 am

It's really not about the play designs. It's about execution by the players and having a point guard who has the vision to find open teammates within the framework of the offense. And having guys who know that if they do set good screens and set the defender up with strong cuts and movement away from the ball that their point guard or other teammates will make the pass at the right place and the right time.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:27 pm

I am nearly positive we have run the buckeye call, cant remember what Miller calls it now, as the first set of each half the last 6-7 years, if not since he got here. Watch our opening possession against Gonzaga closely and you'll see it. It became popular because we used to hit Nick on a lob out of that call once a week.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:38 pm

TucsonClip wrote:I am nearly positive we have run the buckeye call, cant remember what Miller calls it now, as the first set of each half the last 6-7 years, if not since he got here. Watch our opening possession against Gonzaga closely and you'll see it. It became popular because we used to hit Nick on a lob out of that call once a week.

At a bare minimum, we regularly use the PG passing to a wing, then getting back screened by a big with a lob option.

I remember laughing at that when we had TJ initiate that set at PG. He actually got open for a lob a few times and it cracked me up that we were hitting TJ McConnell for an oop.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:42 pm

Line opens at cats -3.5 it will be interesting to see where it moves

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:03 pm

Big game ahead.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
TucsonClip wrote:I am nearly positive we have run the buckeye call, cant remember what Miller calls it now, as the first set of each half the last 6-7 years, if not since he got here. Watch our opening possession against Gonzaga closely and you'll see it. It became popular because we used to hit Nick on a lob out of that call once a week.
At a bare minimum, we regularly use the PG passing to a wing, then getting back screened by a big with a lob option.

I remember laughing at that when we had TJ initiate that set at PG. He actually got open for a lob a few times and it cracked me up that we were hitting TJ McConnell for an oop.

I did the same. It was funny, because as you mention, we would sometimes just run the back screen lob and thats it for Nick. When they would do the same for TJ, and the set ended or he looped back around to get into motion, it was hard not to laugh.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:11 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Big game ahead.

Yep. I just haven't watched Gonzaga enough to have a good feeling one way or the other.

Being at home helps. Having Nico on our team helps. Can our bigs get it done vs. Tillie and Petrusev and their freshmen bigs? I'm actually most concerned about Jeter and Zeke taking care of the defensive glass, not letting them get second and third looks. Maybe Koloko sees more minutes.

Gonzaga is one of the premier programs in college hoops, and getting them at our place is really exciting.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:45 pm

Seems like beer prices went up

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