Sean Miller

[Alieberman]

I've been as solid as anyone in the Sean Miller camp.

But this is not good.

Again we are loaded with talent and it's not translating to big wins.

We are loaded with highly-rated recruits whose talent will eventually emerge in the NBA - they are raw, inexperienced former-AAU players who haven't been accountable to real coaching and teamwork before...

... BIG difference!!!

Trier and Ayton brought us a 1st round loss to Buffalo.

We've seen this movie before, I fear.

[84Cat]

Name a team that has lost 2 players with the talent of Bwill and DD before the season started that is in the top 25

[Chicat]

Name a team that has lost 2 players with the talent of Bwill and DD before the season started that is in the top 25

A lack of talent is not our issue.

[Longhorned]

I've been as solid as anyone in the Sean Miller camp.

But this is not good.

Again we are loaded with talent and it's not translating to big wins.

We are loaded with highly-rated recruits whose talent will eventually emerge in the NBA - they are raw, inexperienced former-AAU players who haven't been accountable to real coaching and teamwork before...

... BIG difference!!!

Trier and Ayton brought us a 1st round loss to Buffalo.

We've seen this movie before, I fear.

You're absolutely right, A, and you'll be especially right if that does happen. And if, in the end, this team's trajectory is different and the realized potential of the three freshmen in this year's configuration (especially with a point guard who's gained a feel at this level by the end of February) is too much for opponents in March.... If that happens instead of the first round loss our brains are all too equipped to project, you still won't be wrong because college basketball is all just madness.

For now, we're all just going to stew in the putrid pre-Christmas loss, which is a venerable Wildcat tradition made even worse this time by the other two losses.

Happy Holidays, Wilcat Brothers and Sisters!

[84Cat]

Name a team that has lost 2 players with the talent of Bwill and DD before the season started that is in the top 25

A lack of talent is not our issue.

So none. If Dylan Smith is still getting starter minutes then talent is an issue. Also, many are talking about Miller relying on one and dones but losing guys to injury doesn't help. Put BW in for Baker last night and we win that game easily

[dovecanyoncat]

As bad as I'm feeling right now my wife just poured acid in the wound as only a loving life partner can.

She: what are the guys saying, hon?
Me: mostly hanging it on Miller...they're not wrong
She: well, if UofA fires him they can hire Bill Walton

Those who love us best know best how to hurt us.

[ByJoveByJingle]

Should have asked this question before the season . . . but try to put yourself in your preseason mindset. What’s the over/under on a successful season/post-season for this team? Many of you psychos probably would have said an Elite Eight or even the Final Four. I would have said then, and say now the over/under is Sweet Sixteen. Anything less than Sweet 16 is disappointing, anything better is a resounding success. Sweet 16 and then out is about where I thought we’d be.

[RondaeShimmy]

The way St John's was playing is how this team with this personnel should be playing.

Going for steals and making easy buckets the other way

The other overarching thing with Sean is he's on a slow downward trajectory ever since 2015. And he can't adapt.

I can't believe how soft his teams have been the last several years, just get pushed around

[CalStateTempe]

Can’t or won’t.

Change or die.

Professionals and experts in all professions plateau, the choice is do your continue to ride tmwith the skill set and knowledge that got you to the position of success and be ok with whatever results that decision brings or do you make the risky choice to challenge what you think you know and continue to develop new skill sets and knowledge to break out of the professional plateau.

Miller thus far appears to be doubling and tripling down...

[azcat49]

Nastiness used to be required.

Lute would tell his bigs to chip every cutter

Lute would tell his bigs to headhunt

For Miller’s holiday Gift I want him to find peace. Last couple of years was the cloud of the FBI/ESPIN and this year it’s our own fans. Just want him to find his smile through great team execution

[RawleArenas]

First round exit with the best player in the nation last season.

This season, another likely first round exit with 3 players who are probably first round picks.

What the heck is going on? We were all talking Final 4 with this group of players.

I'm not sure if I agree with this assessment. Expecting a Final Four with three freshmen is a tall order, especially considering that Few, Coach K, and Calipari couldn't make it last year with even better talent. The Ayton year was frustrating in that we had a lot of good pieces, but not great chemistry. We also had a lot of holes: subpar defense, lack of quality point guard play and unfair seeding. It would have taken a perfect seeding for us to even make the second weekend. All those things get thrown out the window when we discuss that year, because everyone is so primed to criticize Miller. Btw, before the extracurricular legal stuff, fans still had outrageous demands about Miller, complaining about stuff like 'Why aren't we blowing out more teams?'

For a rebound year, I think the second weekend is not out of the question, our ceiling is high enough. We are also not the only blue blood with five star talent that has underperformed in must win games.

To be fair, the Gonzaga game really hurt; to me that was our Ohio State/Michigan type game. I still believe that once Stone returns things should begin to turn around, but fans should temper their expectations a bit.

Gonzaga stepped on our throats on our home court and confirmed being the king of the west. Yeah, yeah it was four points at the end. So what? Gonzaga owned us; plain and simple. Gettings return will be negligible at best. I agree tempering our expectations is important. We are NOT a blue blood. Zero Final Fours in 20 years hardly puts us in that category. I feel the program has been in steady decline since the second Wisconsin loss. Once the NCAA hands down their punishment I'm anticipating probation, loss of scholarships, and possibly a parting of ways with Miller. I just don't see things improving going forward. Systemic changes are of the utmost necessity and Miller will never adjust his strategic approach to the game. For now we will continue to see the same thing year after year; doing less with more. It's getting harder and harder to tolerate.

I wouldn't discount Stone's impact on the game. If all he did was grab a few rebounds, score a put back basket, and hit a three, we win all three games. He also would reduce the minutes/fatigue for the other frontcourt players.

The problem with the so called decline since 2015 is representative of a larger problem within college basketball. Players are not as ready or tough or as developed as they used to be. Last years Duke team would have made the national title game 20 years ago, and that was team was just as talented as the Elton Brand/Maggette/Battier/William Avery team. Everyone knows the ingredient for tourney success: great guard play, high impact upperclassmen and great defense. Miller's personnel hasn't reflected that over the last 3-4 years but we act incredulous whenever the results equal less than a Final Four. It's why I wasn't surprised by the Buffalo game. The tourney committee wanted to put the screws to us, and they did a good job. Without the right pieces you have to hope that you run into the right bracket.

Player attrition has been another huge problem with high major teams. If we had Kobe and Chance during Ayton's lone season, that year turns out totally different. If Justin Simon returns in 2016-17 or if Ray Smith is healthy, we most likely win the national title. That doesn't happen during Lute's era. And so, we blame Miller for the teams that underachieved when the players themselves decide to act in their own self interest by leaving early.

People are quick to forget that our last Final Four team had three upperclassmen that were high impact. To say nothing of the fact that our backcourt had the reigning NFOY (and McDonalds All American) and a future NBA all star.
In fact, the entire starting five was nominated for the Wooden Award that year. I'm sorry, but Miller has never had THAT level of talent and experience to work with, even considering the 2014 and 2015 teams.

It's a different era folks.

[CatFanOneMil]

This team plays exactly up to the expectations of a young freshman class with lots of talent joined at the hip to a subpar group of Srs who have failed to materialize any game of consequence.

Our three highly touted freshmen are THAT good, no denying it, but this is also about the time they hit the "freshman wall" that we forget about every year...its ALWAYS the December games that we freak out about and its usually the usual suspects, poor shooting and lackluster defense brought into the psyche by the distraction of a holiday/finals/and how hard it really is.

Jeter and Dylan ALWAYS bail when by now they BOTH should be defensive monsters.

When your coach has to bench one of your most experienced player because he takes stupid ass shots and does not defend SOME of that might be on the coach for not benching his ass three games ago or last season, or hell taking him completely OUT of the starting lineup...but a positive coach always believes the best is just waiting to come out and keeps trying to allow the guys to show up.

Thi was another game in a long steak of games where Dylan Smith and Chase Jeter showed us exactly who they really are, and that is 40% of our starters...so you can take a huge amount of the clock and lay it straight at the feet of two upper classmen who have showed minimal if ANY improvement from last year.

The fact that we go back INTO the game while they were on the bench is the ONLY metric I need to see.

Bring them off the bench from now on and see if they improve, whats the worst that can happen, a slow start where we get way behind? Nothing to see there we've already seen it.

[zonagrad]

I’d prefer and actually expect the minutes for Smith and Jeter reduced. If Jeter can give us 100% effort for 15 minutes rather than inconsistent performance for 25, were better off. If Gettings doesn’t get hurt and Doutrive had stayed and committed, I doubt Jeter and Smith would be getting so much playing time and costing us on the floor. I’m guessing those were Miller’s expectations back in October. But here we are in December.

Gettings’ return should give us his unique skill set and allow us to go small with Zeke as the other post player. That’s much better than Jeter in the low post and Zeke so far from the basket. Koloko showed great promise as a rim protector and should steal more minutes from Jeter.

As for Smith, I don’t know how this team can be successful with him on the floor for more than ten minutes a game. Doutrive was the obvious upgrade.

Miller needs to find a rotation for the rest of our wings.

[SCCats]

0/2 against ranked teams in ooc

Even lost to one “not good team.” Almost lost to one or two other “not good teams.”

If we had to grade our ooc play/results, what would the grade be?

[CatFanOneMil]

I don't know how you should rate ANY teams this year with the exception of Gonzaga who is hitting on all cylinders with senior level leadership...

They are th eonly team in the rankings that does not have a bad loss, #9 UVA just got spanked by an unranked SC...this year is a crap shoot and my money is this is the year the Zags cut down the nets.

[midnightx]

As for Smith, I don’t know how this team can be successful with him on the floor for more than ten minutes a game. Doutrive was the obvious upgrade.

The irony is that without Smith nailing a bunch of 3 pointers in the last couple of minutes of the game, AZ likely loses to Pepperdine in Anaheim last month.

[zonagrad]

As for Smith, I don’t know how this team can be successful with him on the floor for more than ten minutes a game. Doutrive was the obvious upgrade.

The irony is that without Smith nailing a bunch of 3 pointers in the last couple of minutes of the game, AZ likely loses to Pepperdine in Anaheim last month.

True. But go pull his stats from every quality opponent during his career. The numbers don’t lie. If he’s getting significant minutes a month from now(Like 20/ game) we’re not going anywhere. Period.

[midnightx]

As for Smith, I don’t know how this team can be successful with him on the floor for more than ten minutes a game. Doutrive was the obvious upgrade.

The irony is that without Smith nailing a bunch of 3 pointers in the last couple of minutes of the game, AZ likely loses to Pepperdine in Anaheim last month.

True. But go pull his stats from every quality opponent during his career. The numbers don’t lie. If he’s getting significant minutes a month from now(Like 20/ game) we’re not going anywhere. Period.

Agreed. I was pointing out the irony that it was this particular mediocre player that kept AZ from dropping a game to a substandard team. Smith’s continued place in the line-up is concerning.

[zonagrad]

On twitter, here, FB and other message boards there is a growing amount of noise about Sean Miller. Fine.

But before we go down that road, a quick show of hands who thought Josh Pastner was a viable option to someday coach Arizona if Miller left.

Pastner has been a disaster at Georgia Tech and the only reason he hasn't been fired yet is because of the huge buyout(credit to his agent). But the worse Tech performs this season, the easier it will be to swallow the buyout and replace him. Hard to believe he'll be around next year.

Pastner followed the Oliver Purnell model and continued to fail upwards. He was a disaster at Memphis and got out of Dodge just in time before getting fired.

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller. The fact is, they are fickle as shit and don't know a helluva lot about basketball, much less college basketball.

Carry on.

[gronk4heisman]

On twitter, here, FB and other message boards there is a growing amount of noise about Sean Miller. Fine.

But before we go down that road, a quick show of hands who thought Josh Pastner was a viable option to someday coach Arizona if Miller left.

Pastner has been a disaster at Georgia Tech and the only reason he hasn't been fired yet is because of the huge buyout(credit to his agent). But the worse Tech performs this season, the easier it will be to swallow the buyout and replace him. Hard to believe he'll be around next year.

Pastner followed the Oliver Purnell model and continued to fail upwards. He was a disaster at Memphis and got out of Dodge just in time before getting fired.

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller. The fact is, they are fickle as shit and don't know a helluva lot about basketball, much less college basketball.

Carry on.

I for one was never on the Pastner wagon, I thought he was a liability to our staff here when he was an assistant and thought he continued to be no more than a recruiter trying to be a coach.

I for one think we could do better then Miller, but I am also have the fear that we could do much worse. I liken this to a guy in his 30's who has been dating a girl for years who is average at best. Do you settle with the average girl with an average life (but with great Kids) with dreams of more or do you shoot for the stars with the risk you could never find anyone as good and die alone.

[Merkin]

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller.

I don't see that at all. Actually don't know anyone who wanted Pastner to return. He was a douchebag while at Arizona, and probably still is. He was just good at chasing balls for Mike Bibby in extra shooting practice.

[zonagrad]

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller.

I don't see that at all. Actually don't know anyone who wanted Pastner to return. He was a douchebag while at Arizona, and probably still is. He was just good at chasing balls for Mike Bibby in extra shooting practice.

I think Pastner was always riding someone else's coattails, either Lute or Calipari. His time at Memphis was a slow, steady decline. He left in the nick of time. I'm not saying ANYONE would want Pastner now. But there were plenty of people championing Pastner when he took over at Memphis, lamenting that Arizona didn't get him. Those same people are some of the loudest criticizing Miller right now. Not saying Miller isn't above criticism.

[dovecanyoncat]

I think Miller is well above average. I think he as done his research and made up his mind about the best system and how to teach it. But that doesn't ameliorate my personal frustrations with his method.

[Alieberman]

On twitter, here, FB and other message boards there is a growing amount of noise about Sean Miller. Fine.

But before we go down that road, a quick show of hands who thought Josh Pastner was a viable option to someday coach Arizona if Miller left.

Pastner has been a disaster at Georgia Tech and the only reason he hasn't been fired yet is because of the huge buyout(credit to his agent). But the worse Tech performs this season, the easier it will be to swallow the buyout and replace him. Hard to believe he'll be around next year.

Pastner followed the Oliver Purnell model and continued to fail upwards. He was a disaster at Memphis and got out of Dodge just in time before getting fired.

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller. The fact is, they are fickle as shit and don't know a helluva lot about basketball, much less college basketball.

Carry on.

I have been firmly on the Miller bandwagon since the day he got here. I have yelled and screamed at folks jumping off way too prematurely.

If fans like me are starting to jump off... we have a problem.

[Postmaster]

What makes you think about jumping?

[CalStateTempe]

I’ve had these criticism since I just darn cried myself back to the car in a pedicab after watching the Xavier loss in person. Certainly had inklings before them, but that was the moment it changed for me. Certainly not wanting to fire Miller but looking at this tenure with a more critical eye.

If this what a bunch of us are feeling, I can only imagine the conversations among boosters after the St. John’s loss...

[Postmaster]

I bet that was a fun flight for Heeke

[ChooChooCat]

Honestly this year we have 3 really talented players, one bright up and comer, a grad transfer that is quite frankly not doing what he was brought to do, another grad transfer that's been out for 2 of our biggest games, and a few role players. Next year we'll lose all 3 of those really talented players, both of those grad transfers, and 2 of those role players. We aren't going to get the results we want for a good while even if Miller lands his best case scenario recruiting class this year.

[catgrad97]

The only reason I think it is unwise, for the foreseeable future, to advocate moving on from Miller is the simple fact that everyone in this AD right now not a booster would undoubtedly bungle the new hire--as Livengood did with Mackovic.

Unfortunately, our AD has not had a good track record of hires at Arizona in the revenue sports. As a result, Wildcat fans are all stuck, stuck stuck with who we are stuck with--Sumlin, Miller et. al.

Until, at least, we decide we're going to stop abusing booster money for buyouts and try to be a self-sustaining AD again.

[Chicat]

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller.

I take it you have actual evidence of this? Let’s hear some names.

[baycat93]

Honestly this year we have 3 really talented players, one bright up and comer, a grad transfer that is quite frankly not doing what he was brought to do, another grad transfer that's been out for 2 of our biggest games, and a few role players. Next year we'll lose all 3 of those really talented players, both of those grad transfers, and 2 of those role players. We aren't going to get the results we want for a good while even if Miller lands his best case scenario recruiting class this year.

It is no doubt getting harder and harder to support Miller. Through all of the turmoil the past 24 months and the us against the world mentality that brought, supporting Miller felt like loyalty. I want(ed) to believe he had gotten smarter in who he was recruiting. That we would see improvement in personnel and coaching. The former is mirky as noted and the later definitely leaves a lot to be desired. As this season is unfolding the storyline of this is a make or break year for CSM is feeling stronger. The idea that UofA and CSM needed each other and the best way forward was to succeed in unison is fading rather quickly.

If CSM cant get this season on track... competing for 40 minutes, competing for a PAC-12 title, into the second weekend of the tournament ( a very low bar IMO) ... time might be here for all parties to go different directions. If our NOA hangs out past April, parting with Miller for basketball reasons might be the best solution to dealing with whatever might be coming otherwise. Especially if the immediate future might be as bleak as highlighted above.

FTR, I am hoping for CSM to succeed.

[Longhorned]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

[zonagrad]

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller.

I take it you have actual evidence of this? Let’s hear some names.

Maybe I need to get off Twitter because of the posters there. Or maybe I'm too sensitive.

Just a quick search from old posts on these boards:


Re: Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved
Postby BE4RDOWN21 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am

If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.



Re: if Miller leaves the coach I want is...
Postby NYCat » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:10 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
NYCat wrote:
I like how you can tell who the idiots are by calling for a UofA guy. There's no one good enough, or available, or capable, or qualified for the Arizona job except Josh Pastner that is a Arizona guy.

Personally I would go after Hoiberg if he's fired, he's still only 45.


You think Josh Pastner is capable or qualified for Arizona? Damn, we have fallen really, really far.


He is capable and qualifed in the sense that he's ran a Division 1 program in a major conference and has been able to recruit before. Whether he'd be good at Arizona is a different question, and the answer is obvious.

[baycat93]

I definitely agree with the roster management and talent evaluation. On the latter, evaluating GT and transfers in general feels like a crap shoot. So little opportunity to see live action and have much interpersonal evaluation. A place I think he is better at than not.

On coaching, my biggest knock is the feeling his teams are not prepared (early game struggles) and don't seem to have team specific game plans (offensive/defensive) ie "we do what we do". Admittedly that is very uninformed opinion as I have never coached a basketball game. With this coaching staff specifically, it feels like he does not have a lot of coaching chops under him. If he stays past this year, it feels like he needs some more experience on his bench.

[zonagrad]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

He's hit some home runs and whiffed badly. I'd imagine that's par for most coaches. It is frustrating to see us go all in on a guy like Alex Barcello and then see someone like Jordan Ford go to St. Mary's. I'm still clueless as to what Miller saw in PJC after coaching TJ McConnell for three seasons.

[SCCats]

Honestly this year we have 3 really talented players, one bright up and comer, a grad transfer that is quite frankly not doing what he was brought to do, another grad transfer that's been out for 2 of our biggest games, and a few role players. Next year we'll lose all 3 of those really talented players, both of those grad transfers, and 2 of those role players. We aren't going to get the results we want for a good while even if Miller lands his best case scenario recruiting class this year.

The roster composition continues to be a mystery to me.

[Chicat]

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller.

I take it you have actual evidence of this? Let’s hear some names.

Maybe I need to get off Twitter because of the posters there. Or maybe I'm too sensitive.

Just a quick search from old posts on these boards:


Re: Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved
Postby BE4RDOWN21 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am

If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.



Re: if Miller leaves the coach I want is...
Postby NYCat » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:10 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
NYCat wrote:
I like how you can tell who the idiots are by calling for a UofA guy. There's no one good enough, or available, or capable, or qualified for the Arizona job except Josh Pastner that is a Arizona guy.

Personally I would go after Hoiberg if he's fired, he's still only 45.


You think Josh Pastner is capable or qualified for Arizona? Damn, we have fallen really, really far.


He is capable and qualifed in the sense that he's ran a Division 1 program in a major conference and has been able to recruit before. Whether he'd be good at Arizona is a different question, and the answer is obvious.

I feel like anyone actually touting Pastner as a great coach and an improvement over Miller would be laughed off the Internet.

[RawleArenas]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

This ^^^ is probably one of the better insights I've seen about Miller. Recruiting and strategic recruiting are two different things. It's clear composition wise, that we don't have the leadership and toughness from our juniors and seniors. They don't anchor the team like in year's past.

Of course, I think Miller was hoping Romar would help him in that regard.

[zonagrad]

What I'm saying is, the people complaining the loudest about Miller right now are many of the same people who have championed Pastner as a great coach and someone who would be an improvement over Miller.

I take it you have actual evidence of this? Let’s hear some names.

Maybe I need to get off Twitter because of the posters there. Or maybe I'm too sensitive.

Just a quick search from old posts on these boards:


Re: Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved
Postby BE4RDOWN21 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am

If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.



Re: if Miller leaves the coach I want is...
Postby NYCat » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:10 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
NYCat wrote:
I like how you can tell who the idiots are by calling for a UofA guy. There's no one good enough, or available, or capable, or qualified for the Arizona job except Josh Pastner that is a Arizona guy.

Personally I would go after Hoiberg if he's fired, he's still only 45.


You think Josh Pastner is capable or qualified for Arizona? Damn, we have fallen really, really far.


He is capable and qualifed in the sense that he's ran a Division 1 program in a major conference and has been able to recruit before. Whether he'd be good at Arizona is a different question, and the answer is obvious.

I feel like anyone actually touting Pastner as a great coach and an improvement over Miller would be laughed off the Internet.

Right now, that's obvious (hell, I've always felt it obvious). But a few short years ago that was actually a debate. That's what I was referring to in my original post. Maybe I wasn't clear about that as I needed to be.

[PHXCATS]

Hoiberg would be a very good name to call if Miller were to leave or be let go

[Merkin]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

He's hit some home runs and whiffed badly. I'd imagine that's par for most coaches. It is frustrating to see us go all in on a guy like Alex Barcello and then see someone like Jordan Ford go to St. Mary's. I'm still clueless as to what Miller saw in PJC after coaching TJ McConnell for three seasons.

Wasn't there an elite PG that Miller had signed, but he bailed on UA to go play pro ball in Australia? I think PJC was never meant to be more than a backup PG, although that still doesn't explain he couldn't get anyone else after that until Nico.

[ChooChooCat]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

He's hit some home runs and whiffed badly. I'd imagine that's par for most coaches. It is frustrating to see us go all in on a guy like Alex Barcello and then see someone like Jordan Ford go to St. Mary's. I'm still clueless as to what Miller saw in PJC after coaching TJ McConnell for three seasons.

Wasn't there an elite PG that Miller had signed, but he bailed on UA to go play pro ball in Australia? I think PJC was never meant to be more than a backup PG, although that still doesn't explain he couldn't get anyone else after that until Nico.

Terrance Ferguson and Terry Armstrong were the only guys he signed that went to play pro ball and neither were remotely in the realm of a point guard.

[Alieberman]

What makes you think about jumping?

Early on from Miller's days at Xavier to his 1st several years at Arizona, I always felt like Miller maximized the talent he brought in. He recruited hard working tough guys that gave him everything they had. This success brought his recruiting to a new level of talent, but that new level of talent is not working for Miller. It seems to me that Miller's coaching style does not really work for whatever reason with these elite level players. I think Miller would be more successful with tough guys with a little chip on their shoulder with something to prove. I'm now starting to think that Arizona is not the place Miller needs to thrive and vice versa.

[Merkin]

Terrance Ferguson and Terry Armstrong were the only guys he signed that went to play pro ball and neither were remotely in the realm of a point guard.

You are right of course. Looking it up, it was the failure of Justin Simon and Kobi Simmons to take over the PG duties from PJC.

[zonagrad]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

He's hit some home runs and whiffed badly. I'd imagine that's par for most coaches. It is frustrating to see us go all in on a guy like Alex Barcello and then see someone like Jordan Ford go to St. Mary's. I'm still clueless as to what Miller saw in PJC after coaching TJ McConnell for three seasons.

Wasn't there an elite PG that Miller had signed, but he bailed on UA to go play pro ball in Australia? I think PJC was never meant to be more than a backup PG, although that still doesn't explain he couldn't get anyone else after that until Nico.

Kadeem Allen was our pseudo point guard in '17 -- but really that wasn't his position and I loved his game, just not as a point guard. He was like Kevin Parrom. I don't follow recruiting closely enough to know who we were targeting and who we missed out on and why.

I just think we're still a very young team this season. Everyone talks about our 3 frosh being lottery picks -- but none of them are in any way ready to step into an NBA starting role next season. Not even close. In 2 or 3 more years, maybe.

Look at Malachi Flynn at SDSU. His freshman year at Wazzu he showed flashes of being really good -- just needed time and maturity to his game to gain consistency. Nico is way ahead of where Flynn was two years ago -- so imagine Mannion next year or the year after. Scary. Right now, he's inconsistent. Same for Josh Green and Zeke.

[legallykenny]

I've never understood the common criticism of Miller because to me it sounds like people say he's a witch as a recruiter, a mediocre game coach, an unsophisticated and outmoded offensive coach, and an inflexible defense coach that's wrong for the players he has.

Whereas I think he's a top-notch game coach, and runs the right defense and offense for his personnel, but hasn't shown himself to be a good or strategic recruiter or evaluator of talent. Not a recruiting witch -- and that's precisely where he needs to adjust and improve significantly.

He's hit some home runs and whiffed badly. I'd imagine that's par for most coaches. It is frustrating to see us go all in on a guy like Alex Barcello and then see someone like Jordan Ford go to St. Mary's. I'm still clueless as to what Miller saw in PJC after coaching TJ McConnell for three seasons.

Wasn't there an elite PG that Miller had signed, but he bailed on UA to go play pro ball in Australia? I think PJC was never meant to be more than a backup PG, although that still doesn't explain he couldn't get anyone else after that until Nico.

Kadeem Allen was our pseudo point guard in '17 -- but really that wasn't his position and I loved his game, just not as a point guard. He was like Kevin Parrom. I don't follow recruiting closely enough to know who we were targeting and who we missed out on and why.

I just think we're still a very young team this season. Everyone talks about our 3 frosh being lottery picks -- but none of them are in any way ready to step into an NBA starting role next season. Not even close. In 2 or 3 more years, maybe.

Look at Malachi Flynn at SDSU. His freshman year at Wazzu he showed flashes of being really good -- just needed time and maturity to his game to gain consistency. Nico is way ahead of where Flynn was two years ago -- so imagine Mannion next year or the year after. Scary. Right now, he's inconsistent. Same for Josh Green and Zeke.

And we circle back to the criticism of Miller's recruiting strategy that some of us have called out for the past few years. He brings in guys who believe they are one and dones but aren't good enough to perform to that level, and then leave anyway.

I thinks CST once summed it up best -- "Their one and dones are better than our one and dones."

[CatFanOneMil]

Anyone who is not Mark Few pretty much has to recruit one and dones to even reach the relevancy ramp.

The fact that everyone agrees last year was a bad year for Arizona (because of recruiting) is evidence to the fact that Miller is the best guy for the job and any talk of replacing him is a kamikaze sandwich dipped in stupid sauce.

Can he improve?

Every coach can improve, bar none.

Is he stubborn? Sure its part of what makes him a good recruiter though.

Want to make comparisons? Bobby Hurley...there's your sign...there are people who still believe Bobby Hurley was a great hire at NAU-Tempe.

Bobby Hurley is the baseline for the average available coach in our market, who's on board for getting rid of Miller now?

Replace Sean with Bobby, there's your next few years if you wanna get rid of Miller, if you think thats acceptable you can kiss my ass.

[gronk4heisman]

Maybe I am naive to think that we could get better then the average available coach.

[zonagrad]

And we circle back to the criticism of Miller's recruiting strategy that some of us have called out for the past few years. He brings in guys who believe they are one and dones but aren't good enough to perform to that level, and then leave anyway.

I thinks CST once summed it up best -- "Their one and dones are better than our one and dones."[/quote]

I think Duke, Kentucky & UNC fit that description.

Having so many departures like Simon, Simmons, Alkins, Doutrive....that really impacts a program over time. None of those players are major impact players but all could have played significant roles over the course of a four year career. That provides stability in a program. I think a lot of schools deal with the roster turnover, Arizona more than most.

[RawleArenas]

And we circle back to the criticism of Miller's recruiting strategy that some of us have called out for the past few years. He brings in guys who believe they are one and dones but aren't good enough to perform to that level, and then leave anyway.

I thinks CST once summed it up best -- "Their one and dones are better than our one and dones."

I think Duke, Kentucky & UNC fit that description.

Having so many departures like Simon, Simmons, Alkins, Doutrive....that really impacts a program over time. None of those players are major impact players but all could have played significant roles over the course of a four year career. That provides stability in a program. I think a lot of schools deal with the roster turnover, Arizona more than most.[/quote]

Exactly. You can't sustain the momentum needed to put together a mature, experienced squad.