The 2020-2021 Season Thread

[prh]

Arizona is absolutely the best job in the Pac12. Just go to a game at Pauley or Matt Arena and that tells you all you need to know.

[Merkin]

Arizona is absolutely the best job in the Pac12. Just go to a game at Pauley or Matt Arena and that tells you all you need to know.

They are all empty including McKale?

How did Howland draw when he was making those Sweet 16s? Not too well I imagine due to "traffic".

[prh]

Arizona is absolutely the best job in the Pac12. Just go to a game at Pauley or Matt Arena and that tells you all you need to know.

They are all empty including McKale?

How did Howland draw when he was making those Sweet 16s? Not too well I imagine due to "traffic".

Ha funny right now. But in seriousness, having attended multiple games at Oregon, I have never seen a fanbase so embarrassing compared to the perceived level of the program. Or maybe period actually.

[midnightx]

I agree that Oregon is not as good of a job as Arizona and UCLA. Oregon has benefiitted from Arizona's present NCAA issues, plus a couple of recruiting mistakes (i.e. Tyler Dorsey), but it doesn't have the legacy and prestige. When Arizona is at full speed and UCLA has the right hire, Oregon is not at that level. That said, Oregon has been on a relative upward trajectory the past few years, while Arizona and UCLA had been dealing with NCAA and coaching issues, respectively.

With respect to Arizona v. UCLA as the superior coaching job, on some level it is close, but UCLA doesn't have the same fan support, facilities, or lucrative salary possibilities, so in that respect, Arizona has the edge. That said, while Arizona is arguably still a great job, it was not seen that way in 2009 after 2+ decades of excellence. Arizona was fortunate to get Miller, no major coaches wanted the job (unless one believes Calipari wanted the job prior to the Kentucky offer). If Miller leaves or is fired, one wonders if Arizona will find itself if UCLA's shoes, settling for its 9th choice.

[midnightx]

Frankly, Gonzaga has also benefitted from UCLA and Arizona's issues the past several years. Gonzaga rarely brought in major recruits (until recently) and arguably benefitted from playing in a substandard league, padding their win column for years. The program's consistency and success has moved Gonzaga into an elite status in recent years, but if Arizona gets from underneath the NCAA cloud and once again becomes a premier program, it should again be the preeminent program in the west.

[Beachcat97]

If Miller leaves or is fired, one wonders if Arizona will find itself if UCLA's shoes, settling for its 9th choice.

I think about this too. It's really hard to say whether we'd be able to lure a big name. It's also a little dismaying that the only three experienced head coaches with AZ ties are Kerr, Walton, and Pastner. I can't imagine Kerr coaching college, not now that he's a proven NBA commodity. And I don't think many here would want Pastner. Luke is a tougher call. He's been an assistant at the college level, but he seems pretty well established at the pro level. Miles Simon is an interesting name, but he has zero HC experience. Would be like Michigan hiring Howard.

I also think Miller's going to remain our coach for longer than some anticipate, so this conversation is probably premature.

[Postmaster]

If miller were to leave soon, say after next season,what are chances Damon or JT get a shot as HC?

[ChooChooCat]

If miller were to leave soon, say after next season,what are chances Damon or JT get a shot as HC?

Damon would have a shot. JT? No.

[Merkin]

If miller were to leave soon, say after next season,what are chances Damon or JT get a shot as HC?

Damon would have a shot. JT? No.

Would a multimillionaire like JT want to work 70 hour weeks?

[ChooChooCat]

If miller were to leave soon, say after next season,what are chances Damon or JT get a shot as HC?

Damon would have a shot. JT? No.

Would a multimillionaire like JT want to work 70 hour weeks?

Oh he very much wants it. He wants the college coach life. I just don't see a universe in which he's qualified to be the head coach of Arizona any time soon. I mean seriously if we make that move it's a pure desperation hire. By contrast Damon has been in the business for much longer, recruited at a high level, and has turned around Pacific to a certain extent. I doubt he'd be the top choice, but he'd be considered. JT? Nah.

[Postmaster]

That’s why I stipulated a couple years from now.
I’m not advocating for JT. Just wondering.
Why would he become an assistant if he didn’t want to be a HC eventually?

[Postmaster]

Flop much?

[Beachcat97]

With all due respect to JT and Damon, neither would exactly be a homerun hire.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Let's just say ik someone who works somewhere where JT stops very frequently. He's told employees there he wants the job pretty bad

[EastCoastCat]

IMO Tubelis will at least be close to Nnaji’s production if not meeting it. I don’t know what to expect from Brown just yet, but I will know more about every body in a matter of weeks. I promise when I hear anything (good or bad) I’ll share it.

What I do know for sure is that this team goes as far as Akinjo and Tubelis takes them.

Are you as high on Baker as I am?

As high on him as to what regard? I think he’ll shoot very well, will make good passes, but doubt his defensive ability greatly. I think he starts due to experience above all else.

I think he will be our backcourt leader in points and assists.

He absolutely wont be our backcourt leader in points.

Well, maybe I was correct on my prediction on who our backcourt leader in points will be.
Keep it going JB!

[TucsonClip]

For everyone shitting on Haase as a coach, tonight he simply out schemed and out executed us. Its not like he is the next coming of Wooden, but the game plan was the exact type which has given us fits, on both ends of the floor, for years. The following is a brief breakdown of what and why.

First, the offensive game plan was ideal to combat our ball screen coverages and help rotations. A spread offense, with the ball swinging side to side, middle PNR and empty corner ball screens on the second side of the floor.

The middle ball screen action requires proper reads from our bigs, the tag man, the recovery, and the back-side help (if we were adjusting, which Miller had to do). For whatever reason, Brown, Koloko and Tubelis were unable to defend adequately. Yes, Da Silva is a difficult cover, and we’ve seen pedestrian bigs plow down the lane due to screw ups and score at will for years. Tonight, was no different in that regard.

Da Silva slipping seemed to be impossible for Koloko to keep up with, due to him sticking on the ball and not reacting to the slip. Brown also had trouble defending this action, and we couldn’t even tag off the weakside on the roll man, because that is where Haase slotted Williams. Leave him too much space and its an easy catch and shoot open three. Miller eventually attempted to have the second big slide over to cover the roll man, but that proved to be problematic, as it was clear this adjustment was a difficult rotation for Brown to stay up with, as he was barked at by Miller multiple times, and probably the main reason he was benched down the stretch.

To make matters worse, Stanford’s spread ball screen action and ball movement also led to second side, empty corner PNR action. This means the PNR is coming off the wing, with the ball attacking from wing to top of the key, and the only offensive players on that side of the floor are involved in the ball screen action.
Why is this problematic for our defense?

This is what I coined the Parker Jackson-Cartwright rotation. This empty corner PNR means we have no tag man to bump the roll man unless we sacrifice someone in the middle of the floor, where the ball is attacking, to slide over and tag the roll man, which then would weaken the middle of the floor.

As a result, the rotation to help has to come from ALL the way across the floor (lowest man on the opposite side). Teams would typically try to scheme PJC into that help rotation, because if he wasn’t there early it was an easy attack on the rim. Obviously, this is the most difficult rotation for our guys to make in this system (IMO), because that person needs to help off the opposite corner, across the lane to the far side block, and then recover back to his man in the corner as the ball is attacking to him in rotation.

Hopefully having explained that well enough, imagine Stanford’s offense tonight. The floor is spread, usually five out, the ball is moving, they are going from middle PNR, to swinging the ball to the second side and into the empty corner ball screen action. Being able to get in and out of your coverages and rotations to defend both actions within five seconds is extremely difficult. We made some minor adjustments (see my Brown mention above), but overall, Stanford’s execution was good enough to force Miller’s hand into playing zone late.

Now onto their defensive scheme.

One of the reasons I love Don McLean on the UA calls is because he knows what he’s talking about and sees the game pretty well. He mentioned the coverage of icing ball screens, which was Stanford’s primary coverage tonight. That means in our side PNR actions, and sometimes middle as well, the guard on ball is going to jump up on top of the screener and split his top leg, denying the screen action towards the middle of the floor. The big is going to play on the wing and near the elbow to funnel the ball back towards the sideline so the guard can recover. Pretty basic NBA coverage.
Why was this a problem?

First, the off-ball movement was nonexistent during the 1H, which put the onus on Akinjo to solve the coverage, and caused our loyal users here to be upset at him pounding the ball into mush.

The reason this coverage makes sense is because Stanford didn’t respect Brown or Koloko to make a play, make a pass, hit a jumper, attack off the bounce. What you will see teams do to beat this coverage, especially in the NBA, is hitting the big on a short roll. Think Steph to Draymond and him spraying passes all over the floor. It’s no secret none of our bigs, perhaps outside Tubelis, are a threat at all with the ball at the elbow.

I would have loved to see Terry being used as that screener so we can use his passing to ping the ball around and hit Baker on the opposite side of the floor, but alas. Miller chose to spread the floor more and attempt to play with Tubelis as the big during our first substitution in the 2H. We also became more aggressive with Akinjo attacking before the coverage was setup, or moving the ball to force a rotation right away.

As we all saw, the offense looked much better in the 2H, especially with Baker getting hot.

I say all of the above not as F-U to the board for hilariously ripping Haase, but more so because this has been the basic game plan for years to beat Miller’s teams. Its obviously much easier said than done, but Stanford was able to out execute us for most of the night, on both ends, and yet we hung around the entire game. That is the most promising, and important, takeaway from this game. Stanford is no world beater but they are solid, they execute, they have legit defenders and we didn’t quit. Not once.

In a thread earlier this week I commented that I thought this season, the sum of our parts at least equaled the whole, and that our potential for this team was attainable, which I did not feel about last years team. This loss definitely stings, but there are a lot of good things to take away from this game, and for the program moving forward (at least as of 12.19.20). We easily could have won that game in a multitude of ways. However, this game provided a clearer picture as to who this team is and what it might look like later this season. That is exactly what was hoping to see and I came away moderately enthusiastic.

[Chicat]

Let's just say ik someone who works somewhere where JT stops very frequently. He's told employees there he wants the job pretty bad

TD’s?

[WildHolcs]

I agree that Oregon is not as good of a job as Arizona and UCLA. Oregon has benefiitted from Arizona's present NCAA issues, plus a couple of recruiting mistakes (i.e. Tyler Dorsey), but it doesn't have the legacy and prestige. When Arizona is at full speed and UCLA has the right hire, Oregon is not at that level. That said, Oregon has been on a relative upward trajectory the past few years, while Arizona and UCLA had been dealing with NCAA and coaching issues, respectively.

With respect to Arizona v. UCLA as the superior coaching job, on some level it is close, but UCLA doesn't have the same fan support, facilities, or lucrative salary possibilities, so in that respect, Arizona has the edge. That said, while Arizona is arguably still a great job, it was not seen that way in 2009 after 2+ decades of excellence. Arizona was fortunate to get Miller, no major coaches wanted the job (unless one believes Calipari wanted the job prior to the Kentucky offer). If Miller leaves or is fired, one wonders if Arizona will find itself if UCLA's shoes, settling for its 9th choice.

We are certainly behind Oregon in recent years....investigation or not. It is what it is. Zona has fallen further than I've ever witnessed. We'll see how this year ends up, but obviously Gonzaga is the number 1 west coast college bball program without a doubt. Oregon 2. After that who knows....ucla, sc, and us can fight it out. We're far away from Gonzaga tho. far.

[ChooChooCat]

Well, maybe I was correct on my prediction on who our backcourt leader in points will be.
Keep it going JB!

Good job brother. Definitely didn't envision a world where Baker would be killing it the way he is and Akinjo would not.

[Frybry02]

Kriisa would be a much welcomed addition.

[ByJoveByJingle]

Kriisa would be a much welcomed addition.

Is there any transparency for the university in the decision? Do they know what is holding up his clearance, or is just a black hole and he may never be cleared and we won’t know when they’ll decide to tell us? Wouldn’t be surprised by the latter, of course. Fuck the NCAA.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Stanford has some experience and did a good job, as detailed previously. Meanwhile, we once again are plugging in a lot of relatively inexperienced parts who will improve over the course of the season. That said, the on-going permanent officiating fiasco in the Pac-12 is unreal. I would seriously rather bring in high school refs from big school leagues in midwest cities and let the chips fall where they may, rather than watch some of these guys. Or maybe from club teams, where they let them play. Miller was funny after the game talking about having his team start flopping, which I detest. He keeps talking about it, but he never does it. Frankly, I think he should; both to send a message, and because we're disadvantaged when we refuse to follow the prevailing approach.

[UAEebs86]

[Dave]

Miller was funny after the game talking about having his team start flopping, which I detest. He keeps talking about it, but he never does it. Frankly, I think he should; both to send a message, and because we're disadvantaged when we refuse to follow the prevailing approach.

https://youtu.be/4vtOTqfONvg
If anyone wants a good laugh start the video at the 12:40 mark.
Selling the charge to the refs played a big part in last night's game.

[midnightx]

I agree that Oregon is not as good of a job as Arizona and UCLA. Oregon has benefiitted from Arizona's present NCAA issues, plus a couple of recruiting mistakes (i.e. Tyler Dorsey), but it doesn't have the legacy and prestige. When Arizona is at full speed and UCLA has the right hire, Oregon is not at that level. That said, Oregon has been on a relative upward trajectory the past few years, while Arizona and UCLA had been dealing with NCAA and coaching issues, respectively.

With respect to Arizona v. UCLA as the superior coaching job, on some level it is close, but UCLA doesn't have the same fan support, facilities, or lucrative salary possibilities, so in that respect, Arizona has the edge. That said, while Arizona is arguably still a great job, it was not seen that way in 2009 after 2+ decades of excellence. Arizona was fortunate to get Miller, no major coaches wanted the job (unless one believes Calipari wanted the job prior to the Kentucky offer). If Miller leaves or is fired, one wonders if Arizona will find itself if UCLA's shoes, settling for its 9th choice.

We are certainly behind Oregon in recent years....investigation or not. It is what it is. Zona has fallen further than I've ever witnessed. We'll see how this year ends up, but obviously Gonzaga is the number 1 west coast college bball program without a doubt. Oregon 2. After that who knows....ucla, sc, and us can fight it out. We're far away from Gonzaga tho. far.

I don't think Arizona is that far away from Gonzaga in terms of returning to prominence. Arizona needs a return of stability and some stronger recruiting, which includes some talented players that stay for 2-3 years. Look at how bleak it looked when Lute retired and a couple of recruiting classes blew up -- within a couple of years, Arizona regained its status. The real question is whether Miller will be able to augment his rosters with one or two bona fide star players, which is what Gonzaga has started to do. The other question is if Miller leaves or is removed, will Arizona be able to bring in a viable replacement?

That said, I agree that aside from the transition from the Lute era to the Miller era, this is the lowest Arizona has fallen since the program became one of the premier programs in the nation. People can spin it all they want (i.e. Miller is trying a different approach to recruiting to match what Few, Bennett, and Wright have done with their programs), but the reality is this program does not have the talent it used acquire, nor does it play consistently high level basketball. It has transitioned to mediocrity.

[RawleArenas]

Ok, this is taking it a bit too far. It never fails that with any loss there's a contingent of fans that are calling for Miller's head or subtly imply that there is a need for a coaching change. The bigger issue is that there has been an underlying culture clash with Miller and the fan base since the day he was hired. It was masked partly because Miller was highly successful in his first five years, and it seemed that sunny skies were in our immediate future.

The FBI mess and the ensuing roster struggles brought to the fore the real issue that has been underneath the surface the whole time. Miller is a polarizing figure which means he forces you to make a decision about him. You either love him or hate him. The problem is that people are using their dislike of Miller's persona to attack his coaching ability by over questioning every single decision that he makes. And looking from the outside, I can imagine that it can be quite grating.

I for one, like Miller. Not so much because I have blind loyalty as some would like to suggest, it's that the qualities that he has a coach are extremely valuable to any program. Not too many people want to take on Mike Tyson in his prime for a fight and that's exactly the mentality it takes to follow Lute and start your own tradition. You have to have extremely thick skin to take on restless fans who comment only when there is something negative to say or who try to memorialize Lute into every coach that follows him. It's incredibly unrealistic and quite insulting to Miller who has adjusted quite well to the job, despite just having incredibly bad luck and tireless negative publicity from the media.

Simply put, the program has not transitioned to mediocrity. Rome was not built in a day and you cannot expect Miller to build a rocket ship after two failed recruiting class (2017 and 2018) and having his 2019 class go to the NBA. I mentioned this in an earlier post about the fascination with generational players. The reason why we talk about them so much is because they change programs and get Final Fours. The downside is, they don't come around often. The kind of player that Lute had on his teams are simply not available. There are about three guards over the last 12 years that were Lute era good: Westbrook, Lonzo and Damian Liilard (who did not go to a Power 5 school). Three in twelve years. And I'm not talking about just talented guards, I'm talking about transformational players.

Here's another inconvenient truth: if Lute coached today he would have not have the success he had in the 80s and 90s. Yes his systems and philosophies are timeless, but the prospect of keeping players together to build momentum would prove to be frustrating and ultimately fruitless because the type of player that would usually stay for three or four years would leave after one. Think Gardner would stay after 2 or RJ or Terry in light of the pressure of today's athletes to declare for the draft? Miller's made the right moves all along, it's just that his players are declaring or leaving for more playing time. I will go on the record and say this as well: if UofA decides to push Miller out it will regret it much worse than when they got rid of Tomey. The reason why Wright and Few are consistently playing at a high level is because they were able to build programs without being compared to a HOF coach at every turn. They were also able to do it over a decade and make many, many mistakes before finding out what worked for them long term. Miller has already worked out his point guard issues with BWill, Nico, Akinjo and Kriisa and will get this program moving. But my fear is that all the negativity from the fan base will wear him down and he will leave anyway, even if he makes a Final Four. And from there, we can see how brilliant Heeke really is.

[TatetheGreat]

Miller should go back to coaching at a mid-major if he doesn’t want to be compared to Lute. This fan base has been ridiculously patient with him. I’ve already lost interest but I admit to holding high expectations.

[Spaceman Spiff]

For everyone shitting on Haase as a coach, tonight he simply out schemed and out executed us. Its not like he is the next coming of Wooden, but the game plan was the exact type which has given us fits, on both ends of the floor, for years. The following is a brief breakdown of what and why.

Thank you for this post. I'm only quoting the beginning for thread length, but it's detailed and a fantastic analysis.

It seemed one of the overriding things is that they had us in both experience and execution by a fair margin. They were able to adjust to us while we're still working to get the basics down.

Tubelis and Mathurin had moments, but clearly aren't there. Terry was pretty nonexistent. To your point about Stanford icing ball screens, those are the three guys most able to counter that, and only Tubelis looked halfway ready for it.

Brown and Koloko suffer not only from not really being faceup options, but also the huge number of charges being called. Asking one of them to catch and dribble into a 10 footer is begging for a charge under current officiating. Also, I hope it's just Coronavirus, but that's a part of Koloko's game that hasn't really evolved.

I'm fairly positive on that loss. It was our first road game, our first real test, our first team that dictated the game to us, we had an awful start, and if that's a block call on Akinjo or we make some ft's, maybe we win.

This is a roster that needs to develop, and games like that force development.

[ChooChooCat]

It's time to stop pretending this is the early 1990s and quit starting both Brown and Koloko.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Simply put, the program has not transitioned to mediocrity. Rome was not built in a day and you cannot expect Miller to build a rocket ship after two failed recruiting class (2017 and 2018) and having his 2019 class go to the NBA.

Here's another inconvenient truth: if Lute coached today he would have not have the success he had in the 80s and 90s. Yes his systems and philosophies are timeless, but the prospect of keeping players together to build momentum would prove to be frustrating and ultimately fruitless because the type of player that would usually stay for three or four years would leave after one. Think Gardner would stay after 2 or RJ or Terry in light of the pressure of today's athletes to declare for the draft? Miller's made the right moves all along, it's just that his players are declaring or leaving for more playing time. I will go on the record and say this as well: if UofA decides to push Miller out it will regret it much worse than when they got rid of Tomey. The reason why Wright and Few are consistently playing at a high level is because they were able to build programs without being compared to a HOF coach at every turn. They were also able to do it over a decade and make many, many mistakes before finding out what worked for them long term. Miller has already worked out his point guard issues with BWill, Nico, Akinjo and Kriisa and will get this program moving. But my fear is that all the negativity from the fan base will wear him down and he will leave anyway, even if he makes a Final Four. And from there, we can see how brilliant Heeke really is.

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head for my thoughts about things. Pre-FBI, we were coming off a Sweet 16 and looking at the year with Ayton, Trier, Rawle, etc., then a recruiting class of Bol Bol, Shareef O'Neal, Nassir Little, BWill and Jahvon Quinerly. The FBI hit and we wound up with BWill barely, and then his knee made him a medical one and done.

Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't know who could have done better with the 2018 recruiting class. Then, we got talent in Nico, Green and Zeke. But, we had very little returning talent and some days they looked great and some days they were freshmen. Now we have this year, where we are talented, but clearly need more time in the oven.

Losing a full year of recruiting for a program that simultaneously lost all 5 starters, including three NBA players, one of which was the #1 pick was a blow no program could shrug off, IMO.

I'm also fully with your second paragraph. In today's world, Sean Elliott is never on the 1988 team, Reeves and Stoudamire don't stick around to make a FF, Dickerson isn't on the 97 team and probably Simon too, and RJ and Arenas aren't on the 01 team. The way you compose a roster is completely different today.

Look at Duke. Coach K used to have a recruiting style similar to Lute. Duke started having really iffy results in the OAD era and K had to completely retool his approach.

Zeke is a perfect example. In Lute's era, he'd be our #1 scorer this year. Heck, we'd probably still have Nico and Green in Lute's era. Instead, Zeke played himself into the first round and left. It's a lot harder to build these days. Build too slow and people are pissed you lost to Stanford for the first time since 2009. Build too fast and the guys you built with leave for the pros.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's time to stop pretending this is the early 1990s and quit starting both Brown and Koloko.

Koloko is tough to play vs an offense dedicated to spreading the floor like Stanford. I see him like Rudy Gobert in the pros. Gobert is a NBA DPOY, and against teams like the Rockets or Warriors, he's almost unplayable because he's not built to defend in space.

Koloko, I think a lot is the lost offseason, but he's in a bad spot when he's not functioning as a rim protector. Especially against teams like Stanford, he and Brown are redundant and exacerbate our difficulties in rotations.

It's frustrating to watch bc sometimes we do well for 20 seconds, then completely blow a rotation and give up a wide open dunk or layup.

[Beachcat97]

Looking ahead, we've got Montana (3-4) and Colorado (5-1) as our next two. I haven't seen Montana yet, but Colorado just BLITZED Washington (what's wrong with UW, btw?). Colorado's only loss is to #12 Tennessee.

[EastCoastCat]

Well, maybe I was correct on my prediction on who our backcourt leader in points will be.
Keep it going JB!

Good job brother. Definitely didn't envision a world where Baker would be killing it the way he is and Akinjo would not.

Well, even an old blind squirrel gets an acorn...

I just like JB's stroke so much when he's in rhythm, but even I am amazed how impressive his shooting has been to start the season. But in truth Akinjo certainly has more ways to score either from the outside, driving to the bucket or getting to the FT line. He's a much more versatile scorer than Baker.

I know it's a limited sample size but our backcourt is the strength of this team at least on the offensive end. You can see the wings and bigs have the talent and athleticism but it looks like we have to patient as they develop.

BTW, speaking of shitting on Miller. Doesn't he get some "historic" kudos for at least switching to a zone in the second half? I liked that he recognized the need to change things up as we were getting demolished by Stanford's PnR. Worked for a few possessions until we couldn't grab a rebound which led to a couple of made 3's.

[EastCoastCat]

It's time to stop pretending this is the early 1990s and quit starting both Brown and Koloko.

Koloko is tough to play vs an offense dedicated to spreading the floor like Stanford. I see him like Rudy Gobert in the pros. Gobert is a NBA DPOY, and against teams like the Rockets or Warriors, he's almost unplayable because he's not built to defend in space.

Koloko, I think a lot is the lost offseason, but he's in a bad spot when he's not functioning as a rim protector. Especially against teams like Stanford, he and Brown are redundant and exacerbate our difficulties in rotations.

It's frustrating to watch bc sometimes we do well for 20 seconds, then completely blow a rotation and give up a wide open dunk or layup.

Spiff, I have never expected too much offensively from Koloko but it's his defense or lack thereof which has been surprising. It looks like he's no longer in that "rim protector" role because I am seeing him guarding players on the perimeter more often this year but maybe that's due to the type of teams/lineups we are playing.

He's also been late on helping at the rim which has allowed offensive players to at least get the ball to rim and even if it doesn't go in it leads to easy put backs by the opponent as he and the on-ball defender both try and block the shot. That annoys me to no end.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's time to stop pretending this is the early 1990s and quit starting both Brown and Koloko.

Koloko is tough to play vs an offense dedicated to spreading the floor like Stanford. I see him like Rudy Gobert in the pros. Gobert is a NBA DPOY, and against teams like the Rockets or Warriors, he's almost unplayable because he's not built to defend in space.

Koloko, I think a lot is the lost offseason, but he's in a bad spot when he's not functioning as a rim protector. Especially against teams like Stanford, he and Brown are redundant and exacerbate our difficulties in rotations.

It's frustrating to watch bc sometimes we do well for 20 seconds, then completely blow a rotation and give up a wide open dunk or layup.

Spiff, I have never expected too much offensively from Koloko but it's his defense or lack thereof which has been surprising. It looks like he's no longer in that "rim protector" role because I am seeing him guarding players on the perimeter more often this year but maybe that's due to the type of teams/lineups we are playing.

He's also been late on helping at the rim which has allowed offensive players to at least get the ball to rim and even if it doesn't go in it leads to easy put backs by the opponent as he and the on-ball defender both try and block the shot. That annoys me to no end.

I see Koloko like this. Last year, it wasn't a given he'd play, so teams didn't really scheme for him and he could play to his strengths.

This year, teams are 100% scheming for him, and they're intentionally keeping him on the perimeter in ball screens where he struggles. The teams that he's done well against have had a more traditional look. Teams like Stanford are spreading us and as TucsonClip noted, Koloko is having a tough time in high pick and roll with getting to the ballhandler and recovering without giving up a run to the rim.

https://youtu.be/21uY9DiB96o

If you look at the first and third highlights of Da Silva's dunks in the above link, you'll see Koloko's issues. Both times, he gets caught in no man's land on a screen and roll. Da Silva slips or has a quick roll both times. Koloko either needs to be on the ball aggressively enough to keep the dribbler from passing or back to Da Silva faster.

Both times he gets caught outside the 3 point line, but not attacking the dribbler. Our weak side rotations aren't there and Da Silva gets a dunk.

The 2nd highlight is the same issue and is another Da Silva dunk. We're having a major issue with ball screens reminiscent of 2017-18's pairing of Dusan and Ayton.

We could start switching more, but that also will keep Koloko on the perimeter more. Or we could keep pushing through and use less Koloko and Brown together. Dunno the answer, but I think the reason Koloko is less effective is that there's tape on him and he has a consistent enough role opponents are looking to exploit him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also, the comment about Koloko is not meant to give short shrift to Clip's point about us struggling with weak side help on the roll man. You can see the timing issue on the first highlight above. Terry is too late to stop Da Silva, but just in time to get a dunk thrown down his throat.

[EastCoastCat]

Or we could go to zone and stick Koloko by the rim.

Maybe I'm alone on this but I'd rather our bigs stick with the picker and put more pressure on our more athletic guards to step up and either fight through/over the pick (and maybe pick up some cheapy offensive fouls) or even go under sometimes if there's not a big outside shooting threat.

[Jefe]

Everything fell right into place for us to steal that atrocious game. We had two free timeouts that Miller used to tell the team to run the same behind the basket in bounds play he has used the last 385 games? The screener gets a back screen for an alley-oop that hasn't worked since Nick Johnson left??

[EastCoastCat]

Everything fell right into place for us to steal that atrocious game. We had two free timeouts that Miller used to tell the team to run the same behind the basket in bounds play he has used the last 385 games? The screener gets a back screen for an alley-oop that hasn't worked since Nick Johnson left??

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

[Jefe]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

[Postmaster]

I’ve said this before.....it’s not that miller is bad at coaching. It’s that he is not flexible.
His pack line seems to require either super defenders like RHJ and AG or a group of guys that stay for 3-4 years(maybe he has that now).

Koloko would probably be better suited to a role similar to that of Loren Woods, where he stays on the low block and defends the rim.

So I feel Miller needs to recruit to his defense or adjust his defense to the players
The zone was a small sample of this so maybe he is adapting.

[Postmaster]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

It looked like Baker’s defender stayed with him and let akinjo run free to the key instead of sliding over to inhibit Akinjo, which would have left Baker open.
ZW slid over to block the lane (no pun intended) but his guy wasn’t in a great position for Akinjo to dish to.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

It looked like Baker’s defender stayed with him and let akinjo run free to the key instead of sliding over to inhibit Akinjo, which would have left Baker open.
ZW slid over to block the lane (no pun intended) but his guy wasn’t in a great position for Akinjo to dish to.

I don't know why the out of bounds play is bad. There are two screen options for an easy layup dunk, then Akinjo in the corner to set offense. We wound up with Akinjo, but with 16 seconds, I think that's a good call.

I liked it better than the throw to a big at the 3 point line or running a screen to a shooter in the corner. I know Baker was hot, but that's a tough look for 16 seconds left.

Add me to the camp who thinks it would not have been good to dish to Baker. His defender was in the line of the pass all the way. Akinjo being under control for a shot or kicking to Baker on the opposite wing were the two best plays, IMO. Maybe a dish to Ira cutting as a third option.

Frankly, I thought we got hosed with the clock not starting and making us reset. You don't know how it would have turned out, but I think we'd have had a better flow.

[Merkin]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

That's a good look for Baker. Not so much for Akinjo.



Baker well covered here

[EastCoastCat]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

It looked like Baker’s defender stayed with him and let akinjo run free to the key instead of sliding over to inhibit Akinjo, which would have left Baker open.
ZW slid over to block the lane (no pun intended) but his guy wasn’t in a great position for Akinjo to dish to.

I don't know why the out of bounds play is bad. There are two screen options for an easy layup dunk, then Akinjo in the corner to set offense. We wound up with Akinjo, but with 16 seconds, I think that's a good call.

I liked it better than the throw to a big at the 3 point line or running a screen to a shooter in the corner. I know Baker was hot, but that's a tough look for 16 seconds left.

Add me to the camp who thinks it would not have been good to dish to Baker. His defender was in the line of the pass all the way. Akinjo being under control for a shot or kicking to Baker on the opposite wing were the two best plays, IMO. Maybe a dish to Ira cutting as a third option.

Frankly, I thought we got hosed with the clock not starting and making us reset. You don't know how it would have turned out, but I think we'd have had a better flow.

I watched it a few more times and agree. It was a pretty good design after the stupid reset and I don't think Baker was ever going to get a good look. The opening was there for Akinjo so I thought it was a pretty good move especially with time on the clock to get a rebound or worse case foul the opponent.

McLean said the charge was a good call but I thought the defender was leaning to draw the contact.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Or we could go to zone and stick Koloko by the rim.

Maybe I'm alone on this but I'd rather our bigs stick with the picker and put more pressure on our more athletic guards to step up and either fight through/over the pick (and maybe pick up some cheapy offensive fouls) or even go under sometimes if there's not a big outside shooting threat.

I think that was pretty much Miller's thinking going zone. We're getting chopped up on ball screens and rotations in man, so eff it, let's run something that negates both.

My thing, we need to pick one. That's why I said no man's land. If the bigs attack or full switch, the pass to Da Silva isn't there. If the big hedges and drops, he can't stay attached for that extra second. That's what I see, that the big doesn't commit to the dribbler or commit to the hedge and immediate recovery.

We compounded with the weakside rotation being late as well. I'm a man to man loyalist, and I know this will be unpopular, but I will take a few L's like Stanford to develop those base man skills.

Like Koloko's hedge and recover skills and feel for it. To me, that's a long term thing you want to make him a contributor for the next 3 years. Or guys like Terry/Mathurin's weak side rotation. I want them to learn, not just for wins this year, but for the stability and growth we hope for in the future.

[EastCoastCat]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

That's a good look for Baker. Not so much for Akinjo.

Disagree. Rewind it by a second and you will see the defender in good position to cut off any pass to Baker. I believe if Akinjo gives it to Baker earlier it was an easy close out.

This snapshot is only after Akinjo committed to the drive and the defender started to slide down.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Huh? I thought the final play was to get the ball to Akinjo to make a play to the hoop which seemed to be a good call if it weren't for what I thought was a questionable offensive foul call.

The play before that, at 26:41: https://youtu.be/ksEPoo5jzJM?t=1600

Akinjo, who has 6 TOs and missed 7 FTs, is making the last second play when we have Baker with 29pts standing in the deep corner?

That's a good look for Baker. Not so much for Akinjo.



Baker well covered here

Dunno, I think the defender's right in the passing lane. If Akinjo loops it over, Baker's no longer open.

[Postmaster]

Those screen shots are different different plays.
Top is before the charge, which is they play I thought we were discussing.
Bottom is when Stanford fouled and Akinjo was about to get two FTs.

[Chicat]

It's time to stop pretending this is the early 1990s and quit starting both Brown and Koloko.

Choo gets his wish. According to Scheer, Tubelis is starting over Koloko.