Looking forward...

[Olsondogg]

There have always been great assistant coaches in other programs, and there's a reason why big-time programs haven't hired them as their new HC.

This is an insanely underrated point for me. The last hire of this type to succeed was Roy Williams in 1988.

No disrespect to Lloyd, but you can't convince me he stands alone among assistant coaches over the last 30+ years. There are a lot of guys who've kicked ass as assistants during that time and not sniffed the job Lloyd just got.

When was the last type of this hire to not succeed?

[Spaceman Spiff]

There have always been great assistant coaches in other programs, and there's a reason why big-time programs haven't hired them as their new HC.

This is an insanely underrated point for me. The last hire of this type to succeed was Roy Williams in 1988.

No disrespect to Lloyd, but you can't convince me he stands alone among assistant coaches over the last 30+ years. There are a lot of guys who've kicked ass as assistants during that time and not sniffed the job Lloyd just got.

When was the last type of this hire to not succeed?

Depends on your standards and whether we're talking CBB only.

CFB has a lot more examples of this, some decent, some not so much.

In CBB, I feel confident Mike Woodson isn't gonna go well. Larry Krystowiak had 2 years HC experience, but then got hired as an assistant to Utah and that was pretty meh. Wojo failed pretty hard at Marquette.

Just depends on your standards.

[Olsondogg]

There have always been great assistant coaches in other programs, and there's a reason why big-time programs haven't hired them as their new HC.

This is an insanely underrated point for me. The last hire of this type to succeed was Roy Williams in 1988.

No disrespect to Lloyd, but you can't convince me he stands alone among assistant coaches over the last 30+ years. There are a lot of guys who've kicked ass as assistants during that time and not sniffed the job Lloyd just got.

When was the last type of this hire to not succeed?

Depends on your standards and whether we're talking CBB only.

CFB has a lot more examples of this, some decent, some not so much.

In CBB, I feel confident Mike Woodson isn't gonna go well. Larry Krystowiak had 2 years HC experience, but then got hired as an assistant to Utah and that was pretty meh. Wojo failed pretty hard at Marquette.

Just depends on your standards.

An assistant bball coach going to another D1 program as a head coach. That’s the standard.

The point is there isn’t many examples. So to say he will or will not succeed is a pointless discussion as nobody knows.

Plenty of successful coaches fail, plenty of seemingly awful hires succeed.

Hell. I remember Cronin being like UCLA 7th choice a couple of years ago. He was endlessly ridiculed and laughed at his inability to win in the ncaa. Even after bowing out early in the pac tourney this year and dropping 4 straight and going to the first 4, fans were bitching endlessly.

Here we are.

[Beachcat97]

Mike Hopkins may be the closest comparison to Lloyd. Hopkins was at Syracuse for 20 years before coming to UW. Think the verdict is still out on Hopkins, though.

Guthridge took over for Dean Smith after being his assistant for 30 YEARS. Then proceeded to take UNC to two FFs.

[Olsondogg]

Mike Hopkins may be the closest comparison to Lloyd. Hopkins was at Syracuse for 20 years before coming to UW. Think the verdict is still out on Hopkins, though.

Guthridge took over for Dean Smith after being his assistant for 30 YEARS. Then proceeded to take UNC to two FFs.

Hopkins was the only recent one that came to mind and I wanna say he was the coach of the year in his first year in the pac as well.

Guthridge took over his own program. Then they got Doherty if I remember right...

[Beachcat97]

I like Hopkins and think he'll turn things around for UW. They may just need to be patient, though. Same goes for us with Lloyd.

[Longhorned]

It could go great for Lloyd. But Arizona isn't in the general position of having to take a risk on potential. At a specific level we have no better choice, but that's entirely due to difficult timing created by precisely the same person who made this hire.

Everyone agrees that when it comes to career advancement, you take a higher level job at a lower level institution, and gradually move to better institutions. You can say that Gonzaga is a better basketball program than Arizona, but we all know you'd be saying that just to pour lemon juice on your own wounds and the wounds of all your friends in hopes that, somehow, you'll end up with a new suit and a trio of backup singers with netted pantyhose.

[Spaceman Spiff]

An assistant bball coach going to another D1 program as a head coach. That’s the standard.

The point is there isn’t many examples. So to say he will or will not succeed is a pointless discussion as nobody knows.

Plenty of successful coaches fail, plenty of seemingly awful hires succeed.

Hell. I remember Cronin being like UCLA 7th choice a couple of years ago. He was endlessly ridiculed and laughed at his inability to win in the ncaa. Even after bowing out early in the pac tourney this year and dropping 4 straight and going to the first 4, fans were bitching endlessly.

Here we are.

I disagree heavily with the bolded. That happens a ton. The unique thing is an assistant going to another program that expects top 25 results. Plenty of assistants go to low/midmajors.

Wojo is probably the best recent example. He was an assistant and went to a program with legit annual top 25 potential. That did not end well.

Cronin's a bad example for me. He was coming off 9 straight tourney appearances at Cincy with over a .647 win % in each of those 9 seasons. UCLA didn't like Cronin because he wasn't a sexy name, but he was a grinder who had a long, consistent record of success as a HC, in many ways, the opposite of Lloyd.

I mean, I just don't see "betting one someone to be surprisingly good" as a great Plan A for a top ten CBB job.

[Olsondogg]

An assistant bball coach going to another D1 program as a head coach. That’s the standard.

The point is there isn’t many examples. So to say he will or will not succeed is a pointless discussion as nobody knows.

Plenty of successful coaches fail, plenty of seemingly awful hires succeed.

Hell. I remember Cronin being like UCLA 7th choice a couple of years ago. He was endlessly ridiculed and laughed at his inability to win in the ncaa. Even after bowing out early in the pac tourney this year and dropping 4 straight and going to the first 4, fans were bitching endlessly.

Here we are.

I disagree heavily with the bolded. That happens a ton. The unique thing is an assistant going to another program that expects top 25 results. Plenty of assistants go to low/midmajors.

Wojo is probably the best recent example. He was an assistant and went to a program with legit annual top 25 potential. That did not end well.

Cronin's a bad example for me. He was coming off 9 straight tourney appearances at Cincy with over a .647 win % in each of those 9 seasons. UCLA didn't like Cronin because he wasn't a sexy name, but he was a grinder who had a long, consistent record of success as a HC, in many ways, the opposite of Lloyd.

I mean, I just don't see "betting one someone to be surprisingly good" as a great Plan A for a top ten CBB job.

So wait. Wojo and Hopkins. Who else exactly? I’m not talking mid major.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Mike Hopkins may be the closest comparison to Lloyd. Hopkins was at Syracuse for 20 years before coming to UW. Think the verdict is still out on Hopkins, though.

Guthridge took over for Dean Smith after being his assistant for 30 YEARS. Then proceeded to take UNC to two FFs.

I picked Wojo over Hopkins as a better example just because I think Marquette has higher standards than UW and Wojo's time is obviously settled.

Neither example should fill you with much confidence, though, and both were pretty highly regarded assistants when they assumed the job.

[Longhorned]

An assistant bball coach going to another D1 program as a head coach. That’s the standard.

The point is there isn’t many examples. So to say he will or will not succeed is a pointless discussion as nobody knows.

Plenty of successful coaches fail, plenty of seemingly awful hires succeed.

Hell. I remember Cronin being like UCLA 7th choice a couple of years ago. He was endlessly ridiculed and laughed at his inability to win in the ncaa. Even after bowing out early in the pac tourney this year and dropping 4 straight and going to the first 4, fans were bitching endlessly.

Here we are.

I disagree heavily with the bolded. That happens a ton. The unique thing is an assistant going to another program that expects top 25 results. Plenty of assistants go to low/midmajors.

Wojo is probably the best recent example. He was an assistant and went to a program with legit annual top 25 potential. That did not end well.

Cronin's a bad example for me. He was coming off 9 straight tourney appearances at Cincy with over a .647 win % in each of those 9 seasons. UCLA didn't like Cronin because he wasn't a sexy name, but he was a grinder who had a long, consistent record of success as a HC, in many ways, the opposite of Lloyd.

I mean, I just don't see "betting one someone to be surprisingly good" as a great Plan A for a top ten CBB job.

So wait. Wojo and Hopkins. Who else exactly? I’m not talking mid major.

Johnny Dawkins, right?

[Olsondogg]

Dawkins yes.

So two Dookies and a Cuse.


And Roy Williams of course.

[Spaceman Spiff]

An assistant bball coach going to another D1 program as a head coach. That’s the standard.

The point is there isn’t many examples. So to say he will or will not succeed is a pointless discussion as nobody knows.

Plenty of successful coaches fail, plenty of seemingly awful hires succeed.

Hell. I remember Cronin being like UCLA 7th choice a couple of years ago. He was endlessly ridiculed and laughed at his inability to win in the ncaa. Even after bowing out early in the pac tourney this year and dropping 4 straight and going to the first 4, fans were bitching endlessly.

Here we are.

I disagree heavily with the bolded. That happens a ton. The unique thing is an assistant going to another program that expects top 25 results. Plenty of assistants go to low/midmajors.

Wojo is probably the best recent example. He was an assistant and went to a program with legit annual top 25 potential. That did not end well.

Cronin's a bad example for me. He was coming off 9 straight tourney appearances at Cincy with over a .647 win % in each of those 9 seasons. UCLA didn't like Cronin because he wasn't a sexy name, but he was a grinder who had a long, consistent record of success as a HC, in many ways, the opposite of Lloyd.

I mean, I just don't see "betting one someone to be surprisingly good" as a great Plan A for a top ten CBB job.

So wait. Wojo and Hopkins. Who else exactly? I’m not talking mid major.

If the Pac 12 is a midmajor, Hopkins is a good comparison.

Marquette isn't a midmajor. The Big East doesn't get referred to as P5 because it lacks football, but it's had a higher conference RPI than the Pac in 4 of the last 5 years. Also, Wojo took it over a year removed from 8 straight tourney appearances culminating in 2 Sweet 16's and an Elite Eight.

Those are the two recent examples at high major levels.

[Olsondogg]

Right. My point is small sample size. Which you disagreed with, but provided like 2 examples.

[Longhorned]

Dawkins yes.

So two Dookies and a Cuse.


And Roy Williams of course.

Homer alert, but maybe the difference is when an AC becomes HC at Kansas or Arizona, as opposed to Stanford or Washington.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Right. My point is small sample size. Which you disagreed with, but provided like 2 examples.

Well, the only successful example happened in 1988, so it's not exactly like there's a ton of examples of success.

I'd put it like this. It doesn't happen much. Most examples don't go that well. There's one time it was a definite success, Roy Williams in 88.

I mean, I can deep dive it like with Bill Bayno after Rollie Massimino's medical retirement at UNLV 3 years after the Rebels were in the Final Four and see what you think, but I think the above paragraph is probably where it should be left.

[Olsondogg]

Right. My point is small sample size. Which you disagreed with, but provided like 2 examples.

Well, the only successful example happened in 1988, so it's not exactly like there's a ton of examples of success.

I'd put it like this. It doesn't happen much. Most examples don't go that well. There's one time it was a definite success, Roy Williams in 88.

I mean, I can deep dive it like with Bill Bayno after Rollie Massimino's medical retirement at UNLV 3 years after the Rebels were in the Final Four and see what you think, but I think the above paragraph is probably where it should be left.

It is the great unknown. We shall see how this experiment works out with something we cherish.

[Beachcat97]

I'm not sure these comparisons to Wojo and Hopkins or others hold much water. Each situation is different, and I'd say Arizona is now the strongest program to ever try this. I'm not sure how much Lloyd really has in common with Wojo or Hopkins, other than their having been assistants.

Lloyd will arguably have the best situation of any of them, not just because of Arizona's history and resources, but because he's a proven recruiter inheriting a program where the recruiting has often been top 3 good. The big question is, what kind of coach is he? And we'll have to wait and see. I hope he's able to put a strong assistant staff together.

I'm going to give Lloyd three years. If he isn't seriously trending upward by then (ie: close to winning a Pac title and comfortably earning tourney bids), I'll be concerned.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Right. My point is small sample size. Which you disagreed with, but provided like 2 examples.

Well, the only successful example happened in 1988, so it's not exactly like there's a ton of examples of success.

I'd put it like this. It doesn't happen much. Most examples don't go that well. There's one time it was a definite success, Roy Williams in 88.

I mean, I can deep dive it like with Bill Bayno after Rollie Massimino's medical retirement at UNLV 3 years after the Rebels were in the Final Four and see what you think, but I think the above paragraph is probably where it should be left.

It is the great unknown. We shall see how this experiment works out with something we cherish.

I'm not trying to throw down with you, either, FWIW. I'm done supporting Arizona athletics until it's no longer run by our clown college admin.

That isn't really about Lloyd, though. About Lloyd, I don't his resume is close to the level of what should be needed to get the Arizona job. That is partially because Robbins favors him, and partially because Robbins fired Miller at a time Arizona had the least amount of juice in a HC search.

That does not preclude Lloyd succeding. It does mean I'm not a fan of predicting success. Guys like Muss and Beard in the other thread, I would be confident predicting they'd succeed here. Lloyd...not so much. He may succeed and seems to have been a good assistant at Gonzaga. The rest is very unclear to me.

[Olsondogg]

So I guess I beg to ask when you say “done supporting”....you aren’t watching? Not cheering? If the bulk of miller’s recruits return to play for Lloyd, you don’t support them?

What does that mean for you? Not judging, just want to understand

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not sure these comparisons to Wojo and Hopkins or others hold much water. Each situation is different, and I'd say Arizona is now the strongest program to ever try this. I'm not sure how much Lloyd really has in common with Wojo or Hopkins, other than their having been assistants.

Kansas was the strongest. They hired Roy off a national championship.

That said, some ideas that no one really tries are unheralded genius. Sometimes it works beautifully.

The majority of the times, though, no one tries ideas because they're bad. For every outside the box idea that works, nine fail.

Which is my basic beef with this entire process. It reeks of Robbins trying something that will make him look great if it succeeds, and if it fails, he'll pump us and dump us in 2022 and move on with disaster in his wake.

It's like taking someone else's money to the roulette table and putting it all on red. If it works, you look like a hero. If it fails, you just have to be out of town before they can catch you.

[gronk4heisman]

I am loyal to my school regardless of who is leading it, just like I am loyal to my country when we have what I believe to be a shit leader.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So I guess I beg to ask when you say “done supporting”....you aren’t watching? Not cheering? If the bulk of miller’s recruits return to play for Lloyd, you don’t support them?

What does that mean for you? Not judging, just want to understand

No financial or viewership support until Robbins and Heeke are gone.

It isn't about Lloyd, and I think Miller got screwed, but that's over. If Robbins and Heeke left tomorrow, I'd resume financial and viewer support as soon as they hit the door. It's about those two clowns.

[Longhorned]

Personally, I'm going to be Lloyd's waterboy and cheerleader rolled into khakis.

All these new freshmen coming into fall 2021, and thanks to a global pandemic and a self-ban, there will be no sophomores and upperclassmen to explain to these kids the tradition. I'll be running up and down auditorium aisles with a powerpoint fireworks and brass band show that demands their own sweat. They'll be waddling toward McKale with sunken eyes murmuring "Give me some of what that guy's been drinking for 30 years."

[Olsondogg]

So you are ooh ahh man?

[Longhorned]

Yeah but with the addition of a sunken shoulder element and genuine embarrassment felt toward me.

[84Cat]

For the old timers, Denny Crum went from UCLA asst coach to Louisville and won 2 nat'l championships. He was a head coach at a community college but other than that went from asst coach to UL head coach and became a hof'er

[RondaeShimmy]

... to new uniforms.

[azpatnca]

... to new uniforms.

My biggest fear in all this has been that Nike would drop us. I don't know who is in charge of that. Dana Cooper? Irregardless, here's hoping we stay a Nike school for a long time.

"Arizona Wildcats Sports Properties" is that an separate business? If so, that's the path forward for going to semi-pro where we pay players.

It seem to be already a separate business entity.

[gronk4heisman]

... to new uniforms.

My biggest fear in all this has been that Nike would drop us. I don't know who is in charge of that. Dana Cooper? Irregardless, here's hoping we stay a Nike school for a long time.

"Arizona Wildcats Sports Properties" is that an separate business? If so, that's the path forward for going to semi-pro where we pay players.

It seem to be already a separate business entity.

We are already with Nike for a discount compared to other schools apparel deals, I doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon.

[Merkin]

UCLA was supposed to receive $10M cash per year, along with the uniforms from Under Armour. UA canceled due to the pandemic and UCLA ended up suing them. Not sure how that turned out.

But my point being that some schools get cash along with uniforms, the UA does not.

[Spaceman Spiff]

... to new uniforms.

My biggest fear in all this has been that Nike would drop us. I don't know who is in charge of that. Dana Cooper? Irregardless, here's hoping we stay a Nike school for a long time.

"Arizona Wildcats Sports Properties" is that an separate business? If so, that's the path forward for going to semi-pro where we pay players.

It seem to be already a separate business entity.

We are already with Nike for a discount compared to other schools apparel deals, I doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon.

Don't worry, we're locked up through 2025 at the 3rd lowest money amount in the Pac 12.

[azcat49]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

[UofAlum05]

I've always thought Arizona is to college basketball what Georgia is to College Football. Great programs that are always on the outside looking in just by a few inches. Hopefully we made a Kirby Smart type hire.

[RondaeShimmy]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

Knowing Robbins, he'll put UArizona on there

[azpatnca]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

Knowing Robbins, he'll put UArizona on there

Ban.

[UofAlum05]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

Knowing Robbins, he'll put UArizona on there

Ban.

Robbins would also include a monogram of that stupid Wildcat hand single that the kids are doing today.

[Spaceman Spiff]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

Knowing Robbins, he'll put UArizona on there

Yeah, Robbins has been all about the stupid UArizona branding and the block A.

It isn't an accident both the basketball and football teams were rocking gradient under his reign either.

[RondaeShimmy]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

Knowing Robbins, he'll put UArizona on there

Yeah, Robbins has been all about the stupid UArizona branding and the block A.

It isn't an accident both the basketball and football teams were rocking gradient under his reign either.

I'll defend him on the gradient.

Arizona basketball got the gradients in the Lauri year which was '16, a year before Bobby came in.

Football introduced it in 2013.

Mostly the gradient was a horrible design scheme Nike pitched to Arizona to try to be unique scheme/branding and the athletic department unfortunately said yes.

[Spaceman Spiff]

One would think the big, bold block A will be gone and I bet the cactus/Mountain logo makes a big comeback

Knowing Robbins, he'll put UArizona on there

Yeah, Robbins has been all about the stupid UArizona branding and the block A.

It isn't an accident both the basketball and football teams were rocking gradient under his reign either.

I'll defend him on the gradient.

Arizona basketball got the gradients in the Lauri year which was '16, a year before Bobby came in.

Football introduced it in 2013.

Mostly the gradient was a horrible design scheme Nike pitched to Arizona to try to be unique scheme/branding and the athletic department unfortunately said yes.

Yeah, but he did zero to eliminate it and football changed uniforms and kept the two tone gradient on shoulders of the red and blue uniforms.

[Merkin]

Don't worry, we're locked up through 2025 at the 3rd lowest money amount in the Pac 12.

Not that we need any more reasons to get rid of Robbins and Heeke, but this is a good one.

[UAEebs86]

Don't worry, we're locked up through 2025 at the 3rd lowest money amount in the Pac 12.

Not that we need any more reasons to get rid of Robbins and Heeke, but this is a good one.

That one is probably on Byrne.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Don't worry, we're locked up through 2025 at the 3rd lowest money amount in the Pac 12.

Not that we need any more reasons to get rid of Robbins and Heeke, but this is a good one.

The two of them, what are we holding on to?

The 20+ mil lost in the Sumlin debacle?
The Ashford crony/degree mill?
The racist comments towards Native American students?
Their involvement in the NCAA NOA?
Their mishandling of the NCAA and firing Miller?

Where are the positives with these two?

[ekat]

Don't worry, we're locked up through 2025 at the 3rd lowest money amount in the Pac 12.

Not that we need any more reasons to get rid of Robbins and Heeke, but this is a good one.

The two of them, what are we holding on to?

The 20+ mil lost in the Sumlin debacle?
The Ashford crony/degree mill?
The racist comments towards Native American students?
Their involvement in the NCAA NOA?
Their mishandling of the NCAA and firing Miller?

Where are the positives with these two?

Don’t forget paying for a search firm (multiple times) to tell them not to hire his buddy for the med school and doing it anyway, much like the Sumlin debacle.

[Merkin]

Where are the positives with these two?

They don't buy their suits off the rack?



Hey Lloyd you need to fix your A on your lapel.

[ByJoveByJingle]

Where are the positives with these two?

They don't buy their suits off the rack?



Hey Lloyd you need to fix your A on your lapel.

Why is he holding a jersey with his name on it? That’s just weird. Thank god these two can go back to screwing things up in the background again soon.

[Beachcat97]

Pretty pumped to see what Tommy can do. He's got the keys to this Ferrari.

[Merkin]

Why is he holding a jersey with his name on it? That’s just weird. Thank god these two can go back to screwing things up in the background again soon.

Maybe he thinks he is coaching baseball?

Dumbest rule in all of pro sports.




Or maybe he is saving it for his son to transfer in from GCU

[azgreg]

Is baseball managers wearing a uniform a rule of tradition?

[BeardownZonaZona]

Is baseball managers wearing a uniform a rule of tradition?

Yes. Once you hit the high school level or so you'll see coaches dressed all out in uniform including pants. It's a tradition thing